http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif I sent the box back to Edge and in two days I had it back with the latest update.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Had it in for a few days no problems....just a minute ago I went to start it.....crank but no start!!! It also took a very long to time to de-power with the door open. Second try it started up fine.....put it in R moved the rig on 30'....put it in park and it surged twice!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif


WHAT THE F!!!!


My buddy said it sounds like what his truck does when he sets the level(no Attitude). Tried it two more times...did not do it again.


Sorry for yelling!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif

send it back and get a 6-gun!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

Yea, I heard banks has an incredible collection of edge boxes. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I`m getting fed up with this stuff!


Every time I about have my mind made up to give the Edge another try, I start reading several problems. When will the crazyness end?


nowake200; I am not making light of what you are going through, I feel for you. I wish Edge would get things right.


I read how the Juice fanatics rag on the Stealth from time to time. I have been running it without a glitch for more then 20,000 miles.


When I read the good stuff from the Juice lovers, I want one real bad, then there are several guys posting quite a few problems, and at those times I am glad I have waited.


Good luck in getting things worked out.Edited by: hdmax

I believe these juice problems are all isolated situations.


The reason it sounds like there is so many problems with it is because people make it well known when there is a problem (not that I blame them because I know its frustrating), But i'll bet that when you compare how many people that have the juice with no problems with the ones with problems, the ratio is probably 100:1 or more. No product is perfect.


That is my opinion and I think many will agree.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


In conclusion, dont be afraid of the juice, it doesn't let people down very oftenhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gifEdited by: 1bad01

Thats, good to know. I hope to join the "Power Freaks" club, soon.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Thats, good to know. I hope to join the "Power Freaks" club, soon.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif
Good luck, NoWake. Let us know whats happens.

I believe these juice problems are all isolated situations.


The reason it sounds like there is so many problems with it is because people make it well known when there is a problem (not that I blame them because I know its frustrating), But i'll bet that when you compare how many people that have the juice with no problems with the ones with problems, the ratio is probably 100:1 or more. No product is perfect.


That is my opinion and I think many will agree.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


In conclusion, dont be afraid of the juice, it doesn't let people down very oftenhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif





I've ran ever Juice version know to the Duramax world and then some that ,well, ok ,nuff of that, for 30K ....


You are correct ,do not be afraid ....


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

[/QUOTE]


I've ran ever Juice version know to the Duramax world and then some that ,well, ok ,nuff of that, for 30K ....


You are correct ,do not be afraid ....


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


[/QUOTE]


You got that right....The only problem i had was trying out the first 60 HP module...darn that Aaron....hooked me with 1 dyno run! and no he wouldn't let me take it home either :(


But he has been very good to deal with, and very prompt.


I loved trying out new stuff from them.... like a kid in a candy store!

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif I sent the box back to Edge and in two days I had it back with the latest update.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Had it in for a few days no problems....just a minute ago I went to start it.....crank but no start!!! It also took a very long to time to de-power with the door open. Second try it started up fine.....put it in R moved the rig on 30'....put it in park and it surged twice!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif


WHAT THE F!!!!


My buddy said it sounds like what his truck does when he sets the level(no Attitude). Tried it two more times...did not do it again.


Sorry for yelling!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif





As far as the surging goes. When you were putting it in Reverse you likely went a bit too far and hit neutral. Maybe not enough that you even realised it but just enough for the juice to recognise it. I bet you were in level 2 at the time too right? If you want to duplicate it, start the truck and go from park, reverse, neutral, park. You will get 0-5 surges depending on what power level your juice/attitude is set at.

Max, actually it was going from Reverse to Park....and it is Level 3http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif. I will try your suggestion thought...who knows I might have droped into N.


The first time it was because it was hot.....not this time everything was cool. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


This is just my luck.....really.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ouch.gif

You'll be fine. You are backed by the best customer service in the industry. Edge will look after you.


I know you were going from reverse to park but to start with you went from park to reverse. So essentiall you went park, reverse, park. All you had to do is touch neutral in there and you'll get the surges. One you try it you'll see what the surges feel like and you'll see what I mean.

Max, you are 101% correct!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif I must have droped it to N. I feel much more comfortable knowing the surge is not my engine getting ready to blow up.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif


I agree, Edge has a great customer service department, it is just that I want everything to work correct all the time.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif Well at least that is one concern out of the way. Edited by: Max Power

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Well, I guess you just saved me being without the Juice for a few days. I was about ready to send mine back. I guess I won't bother till the get another update... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif

Max Power; you are going to make me a Hot Juice/Attitude owner yethttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif I know I want one, I know I have other boxes, it`s just that I need them allhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif Well all but maybe the 6-Gun, and even that one somedayhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

other than being kinda a PITA to set levels(before i got the attitued of coursehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif) my juice has been flawless. I did eat a egt probe but edge sent me another no Q's asked. That seems to be a thing with past suppiers. This one works great.

BadDog, they told me the flash was the new program that has the fix for the "no start". I am going to try it for a few days to see if it will happen again. I have no doubt in my mind, they will make everything right!

Was going to package the Juice up and send it to Utah. Looks like I'll be waiting a little while longer. For the time being it's sitting in the roll-away tool chest.


Looking for additional feedback on the "no-start" fix.

There is a note shipping with latest units stating that in the event of a no start you should turn key off and wait 30 seconds before attempting to start again.





This gremlin comes and goes. It seems nobody is immune, as many have gone for months w/o incident then suddenly it hits.





Trading out units will not correct this at this point. If it does, it is more luck than anything.





v4.81 is what has been shipping as of late, and I've had people no-start with this one as well.

Sorry to hear your misfortunes guys... I have had mine juice/attitude for about a month and a half now (2400 miles) and I have never had a problem... the only problem I have have had is people not gettin the hell out of the way when I am running em down


Dan

Thanks for the reply John K. Hope they can eventually fix the problem with software. It would be a much bigger issue if it requires a hardware mod.





Alan

I have had the 4.61 and now the 4.81. the only 'no start' I have had in the past was directly related to the air in filter. 20000 miles plus. Could be a 'no start' was just overcome by how long it took me to hit the primer (over 30 seconds). I have faith in the Edge group to resolve most all the internal problems. Until then I will blame no starts on air! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

OK, I'll bite. I have version 4.61. What is the advantage of sending it in for version 4.81? Current one is working great and I don't want to mess that up. Suggestions??

Edge told me a couple of days ago that the *only* fix in the new update is to correct the "no start". Nothing else. Maybe they just raised the bar making it less likely to happen? Either way, I guess I'll just stick with what I have for now.


One update. I've (more or less) found that if I wait about 5 seconds after "key on" before "crank", I have no problem. Last night was the first time I had a no start doing that. {shrug}

I guess I will stick with what I have then. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

For the price....my truck should F'n start EVERY TIME!!!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif


Sorry....


I called Edge today and they are going to get back to me on Monday. Edge C.S. told me the flash should fix the problem. They also told me they have even newer updates....NEWER THAN LAST WEEK??http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif I am sure they will make it right. But if they have a problem then they should stop selling the units untill there is a fixed, instead of taking a crap shoot with our trucks and dollor!


Second, what other problems might this little box have that we do not yet now about?


Like I said...this is getting old for me!

NoWake, your starting to sound like Problem Child http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif J/K



Seriously though, I personally have never experienced a problem with trucks not starting. I believe you are a very small percentage. I have sold several dozen units with 0 complaints. I'm not saying there isn't a problem just that the problem is very small.

GM still sells trucks even though they know there is injector problems. This is far more serious then edge's problem. At least you know edge will look after you. That's the main thing.

NoWake, your starting to sound like Problem Child http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif J/K






Talk about below the belt. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ouch.gif

I was just joking around Bronco. Maybe I took it too far. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif

Max, the funny thing is I thought the same thing.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


No doudt there is a small number of units with this problem, this is proof positive of my great luck.


What set me off was what Kennedy wrote, Edge is now adding a note saying in the event of a no start turn it off and wait 30sec. This is what I think when reading this........thanks for your money but your box is not perfect....so sorry.


When we spend the money for after market toys....that we really do not need they should work without flaws. We take a BIG chance doing this....is the engine going to crap out in 100,000 mile from them or is GM going to find out and VOID our warranty. So why should we stress about our truck not starting.....no matter how may times it happens and I know it might happen.....it still pisses me off. Great now it is taking years off my life.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


Yes, only the one with problems come out to complain. But if everyone would please remember, the minute I installed it I told everyone how happy I was with.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Max and Bronco heck no! I did not read into it that way. It all good.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

NoWake200,


I suspect there are more than a "few" that have experienced the no-start situation with the Juice/Attitude combo. Some seem to have it worse than others. It is a random occurence that has a higher probablility of occuring on some trucks. (A guess: most likely a circuit timing problem)


Over the years, Edge has made a lot of software changes to address little glitches that appear in their products. These updates came very regularly in the early years of the Juice (2002 timeframe). Besides the normal software development glitches (ie. program bugs), this suggests that that there are little variances between each of the trucks that they need to account for in their programming. They probably have a couple trucks they test on, but that is not a large enough sample size.


One of the reasons I purchased the Edge Juice/Attitude was that the company seems to stand behind their products and make it right. (This really sets their company apart from some of the others). I believe they are trying to resolve the "no-start" problem for their customers. They made a change and need some feedback from the "population" of Juice/Attitude users that have the no-start problem. You are providing that feedback.


AlanEdited by: OC_DMAX

I just wanted to make sure the ambassadors of EDGE did not pressure you into keeping quite. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif

Hey, No Wake. Its alright to vent. Maybe with all the knowledge on this site, a solution might be found. Give Edge a chance to correct the problem. They would be dense not to look after you. Look at the market YOU have access to, if they don't. I listen to allot of the advice on this site. (think about some) If I can avoid a problem, because someone else was good enough to let me know, before I had one... I appreciate learning from the guys, here. I feel bad, about your trouble, and hope all works out. IF it doesn't, let US know. The numbers (of people) can get results. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif

I called Edge last week about the Edge/Attitude for the '04.5 Dodges,which is in "beta"testing & may be ready in a few weeks if anyone cares,& asked about the no start that I also have.The guy's name was Jason or James or something like that,he talked about the update,saying that it was the initial timing event being a little to low in RPM.


I have the no start a few times a week on my 3500.I decided to put it on my 2500 for a few days,so far after 6 days no problem.I was thinking that if it is a timing issue it has to be at cranking RPM & that it could be related to starter cranking RPM.If that is true if you have a slow or fast starter it could make a difference,even a low battery.Maybe.

I've been monitoring this post for a few days and today my wife took out the truck and encountered her first 'no start" situation and she waited 30 seconds and it started, I'm starting to get a little NoWaked myself http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif at this situation. I have only had it installed for a month or two and have only used level 1 and toyed with the others just to check them out, I haven't gone above level 3. The fifth wheel is cleaned up and towing season is right around the corner. I'm hoping that this will be fixed soon. I really have nothing else to add but I too wanted to venthttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Maybe the problem lies in you guys running low levels? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif Mine never leaves level 5 and I have never had a no start. I start in on average 6 times a day every day.

After my wife solved her "no start" issue the "check engine" light came on, I failed to tell her that this may happen as well, since I hadn't had it happen to me I figured we didn't have that problem and didn't want to alarm her unneccessarily, at the time I was out fishing and she didn't want to bother me (great wife http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif ) so she pushed the OnStar button and they diagnose a "fuel feed" issue of some sort. I thought that the code threw by the "Edge" was a crank position sensor warning of some sort so maybe I have another issue here. The truck has 11,000 miles on it and I have yet to change the fuel filter, I was waiting until the stations were no longer selling "winter fuel" before I changed it. I'm thinking that could be what threw that light but I doubt it, the truck runs great so I can't believe that would be the case. I am going to change the filter this week though just because the time has come and it needs to be done. What happens when an injector goes bad, does it throw codes/check engine light or just run bad?


Edited by: Eddie Haskell

Quote from slip:





ALERT


We have noticed that on a small precentage of trucks, installing this product may cause intermittent starting difficulty. If your truck will not start, turn key off, wait 30 seconds and then try to start the truck. MAKE SURE TO WAIT THE FULL 30 SECONDS!


Most likely, you will neve experience this problem. If you do, turining the key off and waiting 30 seconds will fix it. Please call our technical suport group at 888-360-EDGE if you have questions.








That said, bear in mind that Aaron is BURIED with calls, and although he has some new assistants, they are still learning and my not be as familiar with the products as Aaron himself.


Now if the majority of issues were handled in the field by the SELLING DEALER, he would not be so buried would he...

What difference would that make, you would just hear "their working on it" from a different source.

[quote]ALERT


Now if the majority of issues were handled in the field by the SELLING DEALER, he would not be so buried would he...











Kennedy fair enough! Give me an example of how you could fix/solve this type of problem if I were to buy an EDGE from you rather than a " no name" " discount" seller?Edited by: Bronco

Just listen to Aaron's voice message once...

Just listen to Aaron's voice message once...

There is no doubt about it. Aaron is one VERY busy guy. I agree with Kennedy. It would sure be a lot easier for edge if more people delt with their original selling dealer for warranty issues. It is nice to see a company like edge directly support their products so well. But in this day and age it is getting more and more difficult to find this in a company. I guess we can see why.

Waiting 30secs does not "fix" the problem, it simply lets you start the engine after the first attempt. That is all.....shut it down after you drive for awhile and guess what.....it will not start again, this is hardly a fix!


This is also looking more and more like a larger percentage of trucks having this problem. Compaired to the corporate buzz words.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif


Also....how about the dealers getting on Edge for this problem, instead if still selling a product with, a to me MAJOR defect upwards to a price of $800-$900.


If I spend $1 or $10,000 I want it to work the way it is ment....but then again this is just me....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


Sorry again!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Max...true, but do dealers have the ability to reflash or the ability to fix the programs?


I do not on the other hand feel sorry for them. This is all part of doing business!!! Fix the progaraming problem and I am SURE this will take some of there load off!


If they can not handle this....then they should not be in business. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif

Max...true, but do dealers have the ability to reflash or the ability to fix the programs?









Yes they have the ability to reflash. Maybe not the fly by night ones.

Any updates, beta etc are done right here in house. I also upgrade harnesses for '03 up compliance.


There appears to be no complete solution to the o start at this time, but if 100 guys a day (or even a week) call Aaron and report same problem...








Edited by: Kennedy

dupliEdited by: Kennedy

Well, for whatever reason, mine seems to have gotten worse. Several times in the last twenty four hours I've had it happen, and that's with a short wait each time, one had to be a minimum of 5 seconds. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif Temps have started to climb here, I wonder if it's related to underhood temps going higher? <shrug> Like NoWake, this is really starting to get on my nerves... Maybe I will send it back for the update. If it even lowers the frequency, that would be a plus. And, it seems to "fix" it completely for some?


Oh, and John, not to stir up trouble, but when I first called you with this problem, you suggested I call Aaron. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

When problems are in their infancy, or the official/unofficial release of Beta programs are not made clear, I will definitely refer to Aaron. I've had several betsa programs on my truck and another, but until it is said to upgrade for the general public, I will not.





V4.81 is what they are shipping, but in reality it is still listed as Beta. The 4.81 only began shipping recently, and has NOT been a definitive cure as the supplied note would indicate. My suggestion at his point is to either live with the problem, or remove the unit until there is a definitive cure. You can definitely try exchanging it, but it is doubtful that there will be any permanent change. I know this may not be what many want to hear, but keep in mind, Edge WILL come through...





Just like guys asking about LLY, I'll say wait. I said it WAY back when the Juice was first released. There was a distinctive "fishbite" or missing sensation that needed to be addressed. If you have a definite need to be out front of things then go for it, otherwise, I'd wait a bit.. Edited by: Kennedy

dupliEdited by: Kennedy

Yeah, I thought that might have been it, but it just seemed to contrast with what you said about calling him, so I figured I would throw that out there.


Also, someone commented on power levels. Mine pretty much stays at on 4 (std juice) with low boost on 4 as well. But it seems to make no difference what the settings are...


And honestly, if it comes to the point of pulling it off and waiting some indeterminate time for a "fix", I'll probably be looking for a “defective product” refund to put into an alternative tuner. And then maybe reconsider HJ as a stack when it gets fixed and after trans upgrades. Frankly, I'm hooked on this new found power, and it is SO sweet when it’s working. Even when I'm not "in it", the drivability is SO much improved that I don't want to give it up for an indefinite period of time... But my frustration level climbs every time I’m setting in some parking lot, in a hot truck, and it “no starts”, so I have to set there sweltering, waiting on the damn thing to decide to reset, so I can crank again… And summer in <st1:City><st1:place>Phoenix</st1:place></st1:City> has not even got here yet. Seeing the smirk on the guy setting in the Ford SD next to me yesterday does not help either. It’s not been a good end of a week for me, maybe it will seem better in a few days…


BTW John, I got the shocks and valve Friday and installed the same day. I’m definitely happy with the results! Thanks! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Sorry to hear your week ended poorly. I had a decent weekend. Eric came and installed my injectors while I dyno tested a couple of trucks and a bunch of stuff. Then we wnet to eat, and today we played in the mud with the ATV's. Maybe I'll start another thread later.


Low boost fueling has been kinda tricky as of late. It seemed to be so much more decisive, but as of late, it hasn't had much effect.





PS I've stated before, and will reiterate, stock Allison should not run above 700lb/ft, so stick with 4.

Sounds like a blast, I used to love the ATVs... I was supposed to be out with my rock-crawler this week end but I've had lower back problems so it got canceled. I guess the back has been making me cranky. Had to get my son to do much of the shock mounting work too. </v:stroke></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:ulas></v:path><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shape></v:imagedata></v:shape> Those fronts are real SOBs...


And will definitely heed your warning, 4 it is, and I don't even beat on that hard, so I'm hoping it will be ok till I make a decision on the trans upgrade.

My suggestion at his point is to either live with the problem, or remove the unit until there is a definitive cure. You can definitely try exchanging it, but it is doubtful that there will be any permanent change. I know this may not be what many want to hear, but keep in mind, Edge WILL come through...








To either live with it or remove it!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif Is this what you are telling all of your custumers after they spent all this money?





I have a suggestion to all the retailers!!!!! STOP SELLING A DEFECTIVE PRODUCT UNTIL IT IS FIXED CORRECTLY!!!! This would speed up the fix process!!


I mean REALLY NOW!!!!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif Stop sugar coating this!


TO anyone who wants to buy the Juice DO NOT until this is fixed!


Sorry to all the retailers....but if I had know this I would not have spent my money on a product that is not 100%.

To either live with it or remove it!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif Is this what you are telling all of your custumers after they spent all this money?





I have a suggestion to all the retailers!!!!! STOP SELLING A DEFECTIVE PRODUCT UNTIL IT IS FIXED CORRECTLY!!!! This would speed up the fix process!!


I mean REALLY NOW!!!!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif Stop sugar coating this!


TO anyone who wants to buy the Juice DO NOT until this is fixed!


Sorry to all the retailers....but if I had know this I would not have spent my money on a product that is not 100%.





This has got to be the quote of the year!


Sounds like the retailers want you to buy so they get rich, and want you to hold on the junk for God knows how long while they may fix the problem/s in a timely manner.


I want a hot juice/attitude really bad, but I have a back up to run, and I will not be spending my money on edge until things get fixed. Even if that means never.

. My suggestion at his point is to either live with the problem, or remove the unit until there is a definitive cure.


That is customer service at it's finest. Wonder what my customers would do if I used this on them. I have no doubt that Edge will eventually fix this problem or do right by the customer. However the above statement is absurd!http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif

You guys are blowing this out of proportion. All Kennedy is saying is that there isn't a solution so you have to wait it out. You are quoting him out of context. If you really don't like it talk to the dealer that sold it to you and if they are reputable they will likely give you your money back.


What you guys don't understand is that this is not a problem on 95%+ of trucks. It is a rare problem. You can't say don't sell any more to anyone because 1 in 100 MIGHT be defective. Let's be realistic. It's not causing cancer. Sure it's annoying but its not the end of the world.


You are very fortunate to have the comfort of knowing edge WILL fix the problem. Things could be a lot worse guys. This isn't worth everyone getting all upset over. Yes I know, I wouldn't be saying that if mine was doing it. http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


In reality very few things are perfect in this world. Sometimes we just have to deal with these little inconviences that life throws at us. Edited by: Max Power

After my wife solved her "no start" issue the "check engine" light came on, I failed to tell her that this may happen as well, since I hadn't had it happen to me I figured we didn't have that problem and didn't want to alarm her unneccessarily, at the time I was out fishing and she didn't want to bother me (great wife http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif ) so she pushed the OnStar button and they diagnose a "fuel feed" issue of some sort. I thought that the code threw by the "Edge" was a crank position sensor warning of some sort so maybe I have another issue here. The truck has 11,000 miles on it and I have yet to change the fuel filter, I was waiting until the stations were no longer selling "winter fuel" before I changed it. I'm thinking that could be what threw that light but I doubt it, the truck runs great so I can't believe that would be the case. I am going to change the filter this week though just because the time has come and it needs to be done. What happens when an injector goes bad, does it throw codes/check engine light or just run bad?


Hey Ed I had this happen once, threw the same or similar code.(cant remember the code #) Called ONSTAR, they said truck should be taken to dealer IMMEDIATELY (yeah ok!)Once my truck started it ran fine, and after a few start cycles light should go out. Think the computer sees fuel pressure but no air so it sets a fuel delivery or air/fuel mixture code. Something like that. Hope your light goes out, give it some time. My no start was definitly juice related.Edited by: skidsteerloader

Thanks skidsteerloader I'll keep an eye on it. I thought my question got lost in the "pay for customer service" argument http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

No Wake,





If you don't want it, I'd suggest contacting the seller who you bought it from and asking for a refund. I KNEW that my previous answer would not be popular, BUT in my opinion, anything else would be spinning your wheels, and wasting time/product...

Quote from slip:
ALERT
We have noticed that on a small precentage of trucks, installing this product may cause intermittent starting difficulty. If your truck will not start, turn key off, wait 30 seconds and then try to start the truck. MAKE SURE TO WAIT THE FULL 30 SECONDS!
Most likely, you will neve experience this problem. If you do, turining the key off and waiting 30 seconds will fix it. Please call our technical suport group at 888-360-EDGE if you have questions.

That said, bear in mind that Aaron is BURIED with calls, and although he has some new assistants, they are still learning and my not be as familiar with the products as Aaron himself.
Now if the majority of issues were handled in the field by the SELLING DEALER, he would not be so buried would he...




I called Edge a few weeks ago and got an instant pickup and an instant answer to my question (Will the Juice from my 2001 work on all DMaxes.... yes).

That's pretty good phone service.Edited by: hoot

Hoot,


That answer depends on what version it is. Ask Cam, he found out the hard way after the oil pressure gauge quit in his truck. Simple hardware upgrade and clear codes.


4.61 up will definitely work, but earlier ones are a crap shoot. Right around the 4.xx is where the change was made as I recall. Been upgrading all that come in for Hot upgrades for some time now...

NOWAKE
I was worried about that surge thing to I took off the juice for a month and I still get the surge dont sweat it. Also I have had the no start issue I allways prime it right away when it does not start and it fires right up this has only happened 4 times in 6 monthes not to bad. I also had stalling issue is was ideling through a parking lot and my truck stalled it started right backup I have not talked to Edge about this yet.


Shaydog

You mean Edge has issues and releases updates and this problem still isn't fixed? http://dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/56A_12_4_54.gif


If another performance company can get flak, it's only fair that they get a little too. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


In all seriousness, I've had the J/A since February in my 2003 and haven't had any problems up to now if that eases anyone's concerns about going forward with a purchase of this product. Only problem I have is less rubber on the rear tires.

Some of the guys complaining obviously haven't purchased much performance equipment in the past. With this type of modification, there is ALWAYS ongoing R &amp; D. That is the price you pay for the added performance. Most high HP modifications come with NO warranty. In my opinion Kennedy and Edge have been some of the best customer oriented businesses I've ever seen. Kudos to both.

I am not speaking for all these guys complaining.....but saying that I have not purchased performance equipment in the past is WRONG!


So, what you are saying spend $800 and do not complain when you want you engine to start. I understand what the problem is now. Thank you for clearing that up!


For a side note I never said Edge had bad customer service. As for Kennedy I never had a problem with.

I'm not saying you shouldn't complain. What I'm saying is that some of these headaches come with the territory, and a lot of the time you are on your own with no vendor support whatsoever. That is obviously not the case here, Edge and Kennedy have both involved themselves directly or indirectly at finding a resolution.

Most of the people here expect little quirks with these power add-ons. Each add-on seems to have its own set. I have tried three now and they are all different.


There are some basic fundamental operations of the vehicle that I would expect the box NOT to upset. Among those fundamental operations is the starting of the vehicle.

Yeah, I would say the vehicle not starting is pretty major, unless you want to sit in the vehicle and listen to the $40,000 radio http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big%20Smile.gif

Have any of these vehicles failed to start after waiting 30 seconds? Is this something that happens often?


Sure, it sounds like an inconvenience, but a major problem?

I've had the Edge Juice on my truck pretty much ever since it came out. my truck starts every time, and everyone else that I personally know has no problems with it.


Those of you who are complaining for 3 pages or calling Aaron every day... does that fix the problem? After mentioning it once, live with it while waiting for the fix, or remove it until the fix arrives. That's just common sense advice.


Did you try to troubleshoot the problem? Since it's not on every truck (or even 20% of them) I think the problem is probably with THE TRUCK. (Just for emphasis.) I know intermittent problems are the worst to troubleshoot - you have my sympathies!


We all know these stock batteries are lame, and even one low battery draws the other one down. Maybe your cranking speed is low (which slows down even more in hot weather... like in Phoenix maybe?) and that is causing it. I remember a thread where a guy never really noticed how slow his engine cranked, but the dealer did and replaced it, unasked. That's just one theory.


Maybe you have a loose/out of spec. sensor on the truck - close enough for stock purposes, but far enough out that it affects it with the Juice attached.


Just because the problem comes and goes when you install and remove the Juice doesn't mean the problem is in the Juice. Once you add something, don't assume just because you paid a lot for it, that it's flawless. NASA has made that mistake a number of times - even though they went with the lowest bidder.


#1 problem I see at work: people who can't troubleshoot.

Hmm, good point on the batteries, but I can't immagine this thing needing to crank faster than it does. And you may be right in that it has to do with THE TRUCK, but as you say, that would be a major PIA to troubleshoot without the experience of someone like Eric and the high dollar tools to do it. And the dealer sure is not going to do it.


Also, given that there seems to be a rather large number of us with the same problem, I think the odds of it being some random quirk of my or any other individual truck are pretty slim. And remember, it always cranks cold, and always on the second attempt. My guess is that it's a problem with tollerances (or tollerance stack) that excede what the Edge is prepared to deal with during the initial power up sequence on a hot motor. But that is just a WAG based on what I think I know...

Something you said... always cranks cold, always on the second attempt. It made me wonder what is different about the first attempt when hot.


One remote possibility is the fuel vaporizes in the fuel rails in the hot engine compartment while stopped for short periods. Then there is low fuel pressure or slow fuel pressure buildup, compounded somehow by the presence of the Juice (wider pulsewidth?)


Just thinking out loud.

SoCal,


Congratulation, you are in the 75% majority whose Juice/Attitude combo works (you have the Attitude monitor right?). For the other 25% minority whose box is giving them problems, it is a different issue. The following is my perspective on the issue:


People have a piece of hardware that works but has a glitch associated with it. We each have our own level of tolerance for these types of problems. My level of tolerance was stated several posts above, I expect the basics to work. You and others may have a different level of tolerance or expectations on how the equipment should work.


I have dealt with the no-start issue since early February. To date, I have not called Edge, but prefering to rely on posts here on The Diesel Place to keep me informed. The answer has always been "it is being worked". How much longer do I have to wait for resolution? I think Edge could control a lot of these posts by either getting on here directly (oops - we don't want a repeat of the Banks postshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif) or by passing information on to their customers through their vendors. Keep the customer informed. One strategic post every now and then could go a long ways. Report where they are at resolving the issue. I have sent them an email indicating this. Also, what is a little abrasive to me is when the situation is called "isolated to a few trucks". The polls on this forum would seem to indicate otherwise.


By the way, I have 25 years of experience in the electronics industry, of which 15 of the years was spent in Integration and Test of complex electronic systems. I have investigated the problem. I believe my truck to be in good health. I took your advice over three weeks ago and removed the Juice/Attitude from my truck. It is sitting in my Roll-Away toolbox in the garage awaiting the resolution of the problem by Edge. So we at least agree on one point!





Have a good one,


Alan





And on edit, I agree with BadDog above, it is most likely a timing problem with certain trucks sitting on the edge (no pun intended). As temperature changes so do certain timing relationships. But this is only a guess and maybe we will find out someday.Edited by: OC_DMAX

socaldmax,


1 in 3 Juice box sold have this problem. That is a high number!


About the troubleshooting thing....if you have read my post on the install my CB radio was making my EGT read 2000 deg+ everytime I XMT. It is now down to a 10 deg bump when the radio XMTs. This did not happen with me just looking at it. After going through four years of avaition maint and avionics school I feel confident in my abilities. With this said I take offense to that remark!


I already sent the unit back to Edge for the up-date. I have since then called Edge and I am still waiting to hear back from them. So what more should I do, bring the truck with the Juice Box installed to the dealer and have them look at it?!?!

All the intelligent info, has been passed along. Lets all try and be patient, and wait for a solution, from Edge. I certainly sympathize with the guys having problems. Before this thread starts to get hostile, lets wait, for the official fix.
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

Max Owner, thank you for taking your time to pass this along. I called them a few times and told them what was happening like I said, but they have not gotten back to me like they said they would.


Thanks again Max Owner.


ps. to all others....be careful....my dad always told me "never spit into the wind".http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

OC_Dmax, I would feel exactly the same as you do if I were experiencing those same symptoms. Actually I agree with everything you posted. Especially the part about Edge using the forum to get info and updates on progress out to a lot of people very easily. The only drawback is that a very small minority might try to turn it into a free for all. It could be done well, if Edge worded the post carefully with no ambiguity.


NoWake200, I do have the Attitude and it's been flawless so far. I hadn't read about your CB radio adventure. How did you fix it? Was it a grounding issue? I also have a CB installed, but oddly have not keyed it up since the installation of the Attitude - I'll have to try it and see what my results are.


I've bought a number of things that didn't work as advertised (like every PC operating system that Microsoft has ever released, for starters http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif ) but I'm happy to report I've had far better results and customer service from diesel related products and vendors than any other category.


I'm still thinking about it.... Sdaver had a theory on the phone today - he had a leaking injector that caused low fuel rail pressure and longer cranking. A wild shot, but maybe you have a leak as well, and it leaks worse when it's hot, and the widened pulse width of the Juice exacerbates it. Like I said, a wild guess. The best theory I've seen so far is the timing might be a bit off somewhere, and only enough to show up under those conditions.


At any rate, maybe I missed it, but I didn't read anything in this thread that indicated that you'd tried to troubleshoot the relationship between the Juice and your truck. Like swap modules with a buddy, swap displays, check fuel pressure or voltage when cranking, etc. If you've done some troubleshooting in this area, fill us in - that's what these forums are really good for.


Naturally, no aftermarket mfr has thousands of trucks to test these modules on, so to assume that they released these with a known problem is quite a stretch. They are continually updating to address other small issues that people have brought to their attention. Unfortunately due to the tight tolerances of these systems now and variations betweeen trucks, we (unfortunately) end up doing some of the product testing for GM and the aftermarket.


If good solid factual feedback were given to Edge by people - air temp, engine temp, length of time the truck sat, any other possible factors, they might try to duplicate the same situation.


When you look at the resources that IH and Ford have, and the horrors Ford went through with their constant reflashing of the 6.0L ECM and defective sensors and turbos and injectors... this problem seems a little less common. There have been thousands of these modules sold and there have been only a handful of responses to the poll, so I wouldn't call it statistically significant.


BUT it's still a *very* important issue to those affected.

I have the "no start" problem and have not called Edge, I'm waiting for news of the fix to be posted on here before I waste my time or Aaron's. It bothers me that the vehicle won't start but I'm not getting angry, I'm actually have a very good attitude about whole thing but when people say "live with it or take it out" thats not the answer. I'd at least like to know WHY it's not starting, is leaving it in doing any harm to my very expensive guinea pig? They should at least issue some kind of a statement as to whats happening. Sure there are supposedly only a few trucks with issues and I happen to have one but what happens if these issues blow something up or fry something then what, who's gonna be writing out the checks? Either tell us to remove them for the time being or GUARANTEE us what is happening will do NO harm to our vehicle.

Along the lines of attempting to trouble shoot. I agree it is not the box itself or otherwise when you send it to Edge they would send you back a good one.


What is the common denominator? What year trucks? What length bed? What option combo? 2 wheel drive? 4 wheel drive? Ac on? Ac off? Heater on? Heater off? After market air cleaner? Secondary fuel filter? Dirty fuel filter? Low oil? EGR?


You get the point. Just do some specific comparisons and look for the trend. Probally white trucks only. We seem to be f*#$%d on everything else.

1 in 3 is just not so.........my truck would crank great cold but once it got to temp it would have an extended start 3-6 seconds.was a bad injector return and went to 3 dealers before it was properly diagnosed.....by flow testing common rail on both banks and then eventually 4 injectors on the substandard bank which revealed the leaking injector return that was returning to much fuel and not allowing the rail pressure to build properly....mine did this with or without the juice..........drive for a few days with the juice off and see if the event reoccurs.....very frustrating I know. If I could not have the juice or my tts I would not have a dmax you cant go back.........sorry for you problem and wish you a speedy recovery......dave

I have a white truck and it hasn't happened to me (yet) I haven't read every post in this thread, but as to it not starting when it is hot... Even when my truck is at normal operating temperature I always wait between 5-8 seconds before cranking the engine (to let fuel pressure build) I know someone said they have done it too, but it still wouldn't start... Did you wait to start it after it had already failed to start?


and IMO Edge is a fairly new company and any company new or old is going to have their quirks. I definitely appreciate your complaints though, because I would hate to have to wonder if my truck was going to start or not. But from what I have read, Edge is committed to their customers and I am sure they will do whatever is possible to correct this problem. The only bad thing about this problem is there are so many variables that Edge cannot possibly test hundreds of Duramax's to find an answer. I think we the consumer, being the guinea pig, benefits... because we are the ones giving the feedback as to what WE want... and I think that is every consumer's dream. Unfortunately, things like this have to happen before problems are fixed.


Dan

Carbon Metallic, 2003 GMC 2500 HD, SLT, built at the Pontiac plant 4/03.... No cold start problems, only "hot"

Actually, a good experiment to try is this:


For someone that consistently has the problem, disconnect the Attitude monitor from the Juice itself. Run only the Juice for a few days (no attitude monitor). See if the "no-start" situation disappears.


If the "no-start" condition disappears, the whole vehicle problem theory goes away. At that point, it is strictly an Edge issue (Juice works by itself, connect the Attitude monitor up and it craps).





Just a thought,


Alan


Edited by: OC_DMAX

If the attiude is the problem, then why not send it back to edge? Would not a simple swap fix the problem?


ON EDIT: I did not mean to insinuate your particular truck is defective or broke. Obviously EDGE would still be responsible. I just believe there is a certain truck out there that EDGE does not work well with. If that type/combo/scenario could be indentified, then I am sure EDGE will either fix the problem or have to admit it can never be fixed. They have no abilaty to test every single type/combo after market accesorie of truck.


It would be helpful to decide if it only happens with the Attitude hooked up. I thought we already established that in the POLLS?Edited by: Bronco

OKAY this is a stretch, but are you all allowing the glow plug indicator to go out before cranking?

hot truck no indicator

My truck has done the no start several times. On one particular occasion, waiting 30-45 seconds didnt allow it to start. So I crawled under the hood and unplugged the attitude display, still not start.


I then unplugged and replugged back in the top connector for my Juice and plugged the edge back in, truck fired right up.


After my first attemp to start the truck and it wouldnt start, I opened the drivers door and had it open until i finished my troubleshooting and the truck started.


I have chosen not to call Edge and to just wait patiently for useful information about the solution to be posted here.

Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not angry at Edge. Believe me, I understand their plight. I work in software, and it's not uncommon at all to have new problems surface with a new "fix". Or to see problems cropping up in the field that are not reproducible in the lab. And that can be VERY frustrating to the guys trying to figure it out.


Their customer service and response has been top notch all the way. Nothing to complain about there, and how many companies can that be said about? But, I still have the no start, and I am getting angry with that as its frequency seems to increase daily. But, I'm still waiting to see what happens. My frustration level is not yet high enough to make me give up the power, and I'm sure they will have a fix for us soon... Fingers crossed...

I have the monitor but it's still in the package, I have some warranty work coming up so I didn't install it yet...I do have the no start problem. It happened one time and I just held the pedal to the floor and it fired right up but I haven't had the problem since to see if it actually worked or if the Edge "reset" and I just happened to have the pedal down when it was ready to start anyway.

How about we start a new thread entitled:"No start with Juice"


and then everyone give very specific info and conditions. What yr truck, air temp, what power level, attitude or no, etc.


It might help narrow down the specifics and help Edge immensely.

Post here when you get it on the board.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif I have an idea of what will take care of the hard starting but first I have to run out and buy a super duty flame suit. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif Be right back.... Edited by: a bear