I use my 2006 LBZ as a work truck. I pull RVs for several dealers throughout the country. I have put 33,000 miles on my truck since I purchased it in Feb. I made a couple of modification to the truck to get better mileage. Those are, a cold-air induction and the elimination of the catalytic converter. I recently stated experiencing and engine warning light which translated to a 401 back pressure code. I took it to my local Chevrolet dealer who refused to work on the truck under warranty unless I put the converter back on and removed the cold air induction filter. Has anyone had a similar experience? If so can you give me any advice on what I should do since I really do not want to make these changes. Lugnut:rant:

find another dealer. things will only get worse. (with the dealer, not the truck)

I have a 2006 LBZ and I ordered what was explained to me by the dealer was a factory cold air performance air intake option when I ordered the truck. GM charged me $25 for the option. I replaced the stock muffler with a Flow Master performance muffler. I asked the muffler shop about removing the CC and was told, aside from being illegal in Ga., that the CCM would start throwing emission codes which may or may not cause a dealer to refuse to do warranty work in the future: I left the CC on. Just doing my part for our air quality. On the dyno, my LBZ is cranking out 300+ HP and 500+ TQ at the rear wheels. That'll do!


Truck on!!!:cool:

I agree, Find another dealer. I dont recall the dealer but down south they where selling trucks already lifted. Aftermarket exhaust and power programers right off the showroom floor.

Put some black tape over the CEL light and wait for Fingers to get the Fingerstick working for the LBZ. DPS purportedly has a code eliminator available for the LBZ if you don't feel like waiting.

I agree, Find another dealer. I dont recall the dealer but down south they where selling trucks already lifted. Aftermarket exhaust and power programers right off the showroom floor.

Which dealer?

There's nothing a dealer can do to fix it. The air intake kit and loss of your cat are what is causing the 401 code. They have no way of making it go away until you put back on or remove what caused the light to come on in the first place. Like minisub said, a code eliminator, such as the fingers stick (which is still in testing), is the only fix for those who don't want to see ses lights from intake and exhaust mods.

So you mod the truck, the mods that you did cause the problem and you want the dealer to fix it under warranty for your mods?

Then the others that say he should look for another dealer, think that its ok that the removal of the cat by the owner, which is causing the code, should go to another dealer and try and get them to do warranty work?


HEY PUT THE CAT BACK ON AND CLEAR THE CODE. if you dont want to put the cat back on, live with the light.

:exactly: So you mod the truck, the mods that you did cause the problem and you want the dealer to fix it under warranty for your mods?

Then the others that say he should look for another dealer, think that its ok that the removal of the cat by the owner, which is causing the code, should go to another dealer and try and get them to do warranty work?


HEY PUT THE CAT BACK ON AND CLEAR THE CODE. if you dont want to put the cat back on, live with the light.

I believe that there are fines from the EPA for repair shops as well as dealers who knowingly working on vehicles that do not meet emmisions requirements unless the work is to fix emmisions related problems.

So you mod the truck, the mods that you did cause the problem and you want the dealer to fix it under warranty for your mods?

Then the others that say he should look for another dealer, think that its ok that the removal of the cat by the owner, which is causing the code, should go to another dealer and try and get them to do warranty work?


HEY PUT THE CAT BACK ON AND CLEAR THE CODE. if you dont want to put the cat back on, live with the light.


:exactly: x2!!

Another vote for putting the cat back on. These things run well enough with the cat on, and removing the cat does little to improve anything on a basically stock truck. Using your truck as you do requires trouble free performance with zero breakdowns and problems or it costs you time and money, and time alone will cost you plenty of money. I've got almost 50 years of pouring tons of money into vehicles to improve performance, gas mileage, and for shear ego, but my D/A stays basically stock because where I go in Mexico and Central America I cannot afford problems or break downs. I've got over 100,000 miles on D/A's in 3rd world countries without service or parts and the only breakdown I've had was the fault of Les Schwab tires not torquing my lug nuts on resulting in a tossed wheel and tire. Cost me 3 weeks and over $7,000 US until Uncle Les paid me off. If you feel you must go cat-less, gut the cat, and no one but a sniffer will know.

:exactly: x2!!

:exactly: x3!!

I agree, Find another dealer. I dont recall the dealer but down south they where selling trucks already lifted. Aftermarket exhaust and power programers right off the showroom floor.

Which dealer? Name please, anonymity is sometimes regarded as lacking in truth.

What really sucks is when some hapless dealer gets a truck in with MAF codes and tries to fix it when they cannot.

IIRC, PPE makes a code eliminator for the LBZ.

So you mod the truck, the mods that you did cause the problem and you want the dealer to fix it under warranty for your mods?

Then the others that say he should look for another dealer, think that its ok that the removal of the cat by the owner, which is causing the code, should go to another dealer and try and get them to do warranty work?

HEY PUT THE CAT BACK ON AND CLEAR THE CODE. if you dont want to put the cat back on, live with the light.:exactly: X 4

The Trouble Codes you are complaining about point to problems with the emission controls in your truck. A repair shop can be fined $10,000 for each vehicle they work on that intentionally does not meet emissions control requirements when it leaves their shop. The owner of the vehicle can also be fined $2,500. That adds up to $12,500 - Close to the price of a new engine. :eek:

You are going to have to reinstall the the old "kitty" yourself, 'cause the dealer can only install a NEW or "RECERTIFIED" converter. Sorry - It's the law. :( :(

If we don't like it we'll have to vote "IN" people who will have the "b*lls" to change the law.

The fact that you removed the cat and they can see it's not there by simply inspecting by eye they won't do warranty work on it. The cold air intake shouldn't have anything to do with the warranty though.

So you mod the truck, the mods that you did cause the problem and you want the dealer to fix it under warranty for your mods?

Then the others that say he should look for another dealer, think that its ok that the removal of the cat by the owner, which is causing the code, should go to another dealer and try and get them to do warranty work?


HEY PUT THE CAT BACK ON AND CLEAR THE CODE. if you dont want to put the cat back on, live with the light.

:exactly::exactly:

:exactly: x3!!
:exactly: x5

I would put the cat back on when it comes to cars I was looking for a place for a long time to put my long tubes on and off road y-pipe (no cats). Every place told me that they would get fined something like $10,000 if they got cought messing with it at all. Then I found a few shops that people told me if I left them with the car with no plate then it is not considerd a street car when they work on it and race only so they would get around the fine and a shop or two told me they could do that and do do that. Just in case you wanted to leave it off.

Dealers are very picky about that kinda stuff. I have known guys that took full race cars into the dealer and they worked on it and some just had a cold ait kit and they refused work.

I know a guy with a 05 Vette that took his in and aksed about 3.90 gears and a supercharger and they laughed and him and told him to leave it alone, told him it was stupid and he left and never went back. Apparenty with his dealer upgraded exhaust and gears it was at the limit with warrenty mods.

But like everyone said, with the cat being off I doubt any dealer will touch it.

And what about us guys that can't get rid of the exhaust drone unless we remove the cat/front pipe? Two dealers have told me "it's normal," and GM has no fix for the '06 trucks with the drone. Yet, the drone vibrates enough to numb your foot at 65-70mph, and if you pull a trailer in hilly terrain, the radio does not get loud enough to ever overcome it. In fact, it'll give you headache at highways speeds

So, what would you do? I'm not about to speed with a loaded trailer, and I can't go much slower than 65mph without getting run over. So....

And what about us guys that can't get rid of the exhaust drone unless we remove the cat/front pipe? Two dealers have told me "it's normal," and GM has no fix for the '06 trucks with the drone. Yet, the drone vibrates enough to numb your foot at 65-70mph, and if you pull a trailer in hilly terrain, the radio does not get loud enough to ever overcome it. In fact, it'll give you headache at highways speeds

So, what would you do? I'm not about to speed with a loaded trailer, and I can't go much slower than 65mph without getting run over. So....

DYNAMAT!!!
on the kitty, you're on your own if you remove it.

And what about us guys that can't get rid of the exhaust drone unless we remove the cat/front pipe? Two dealers have told me "it's normal," and GM has no fix for the '06 trucks with the drone. Yet, the drone vibrates enough to numb your foot at 65-70mph, and if you pull a trailer in hilly terrain, the radio does not get loud enough to ever overcome it. In fact, it'll give you headache at highways speeds

So, what would you do? I'm not about to speed with a loaded trailer, and I can't go much slower than 65mph without getting run over. So....

Earplugs ?? !!:joke::lol:

And what about us guys that can't get rid of the exhaust drone unless we remove the cat/front pipe? Two dealers have told me "it's normal," and GM has no fix for the '06 trucks with the drone. Yet, the drone vibrates enough to numb your foot at 65-70mph, and if you pull a trailer in hilly terrain, the radio does not get loud enough to ever overcome it. In fact, it'll give you headache at highways speeds

So, what would you do? I'm not about to speed with a loaded trailer, and I can't go much slower than 65mph without getting run over. So....

Get an LB7 :muahaha:

Have you noticed that 80% of the people with problems posting on this Forum have modded their truck in some way?

Have you noticed that 80% of the people with problems posting on this Forum have modded their truck in some way?

That's a fair percentage, because I'll wager that 98% of the people that post on this board at all have modded their truck in some way!;)

While the title says LLY the general implications are the same:

http://www.kennedydiesel.com/docs/Duramax_LLY_Emissions.htm

'06 blocker pkgs will be available soon.

I have a 2006 LBZ and I ordered what was explained to me by the dealer was a factory cold air performance air intake option when I ordered the truck. GM charged me $25 for the option.

Truck on!!!:cool:Do you have pictures of this cold air performance intake option? How about a part number or RPO code? If you are refering to the K47 High Capacity Air Cleaner, it already IS included with the Diesel Engine (LBZ or LLY). Unless the dealer installed some aftermarket option? :confused:

That's a fair percentage, because I'll wager that 98% of the people that post on this board at all have modded their truck in some way!;)


Its nice to know I'm not the only one that has noticed. Stock all the way!!:D

get a bullydog power pup to remove the code. It will increase timming and improve millagefor under $450.:ro)

Why go to the dealer when you can fix it yourself.

Im sick of hearing, it's not factory you changed this, theres nothing we can do , you have to wait for the truck to break in, the truck has a computer in it.you have to understand.all I can do is make a report:blahblah::blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:-:tThen you say this will be my last gm product. thankyou.

get a bullydog power pup to remove the code. It will increase timming and improve millagefor under $450.:ro)

Why go to the dealer when you can fix it yourself.

Im sick of hearing, it's not factory you changed this, theres nothing we can do , you have to wait for the truck to break in, the truck has a computer in it.you have to understand.all I can do is make a report:blahblah::blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:-:tThen you say this will be my last gm product. thankyou.



1. Bully Dog does not turn off EGR code on LBZ (unless its in the newest software release)

2. You are sick of hearing about people that change stuff on the truck and then the check engine light is on as a direct result? And you expect the dealer/GM to do something about it?

Since not all who read this thread have read up on the history of the Dmax VVT and emissions control, here is a primer:

By law, emissions control systems like we have on the LLY/LBZ engines must monitor the engine to see if the smog control system functions properly.

Since there is no Air/Fuel ratio requirement on a diesel, and the soot issue, we do not have Oxygen Sensors. So to see if the engine is running right, it looks at how much air is going into the engine. When you modify the exhaust system or the intake system, it changes the numbers coming from the sensors, and they sometimes do not fit into the formula GM uses to tell if the EGR and MAF are working right. Since it does not know "why" it's seeing the wrong numbers, it makes an educated guess, which are MAF and EGR trouble codes we see on VVT engines.

Your GM Dealer cannot "fix" these codes if they are caused by changes in the factory intake or exhaust system. You can complain all you want, but the only way GM can remove the codes is to return you to stock.

Hence the "hot rodders" in the aftermarket industry have come up with ways to remove these codes. "Fingers" was the first guy to fix the problem when it was observed on the first LLY's, and he is not a million dollar parts mfr. We all owe a debt of gratitude to him. He did not get rich doing it (understatement), and since then other companies copied his idea for $$$.

You have two choices in the matter: Stay stock, or look for a fix from the Hot Rod guys.

You will notice that neither of the choices was "b i t c h at your dealer"...

I heard that Fingers made a small fortune with his aftermarket mod sales!:mad:

Of course, he started with a large fortune!!;) ):h

Which dealer? Name please, anonymity is sometimes regarded as lacking in truth.

There are two dealers in Baton Rouge, LA w/ '06 trucks on the lot, 6" lift 35" tires on 20, 4" exhaust etc....Regency "conversion" package

Since not all who read this thread have read up on the history of the Dmax VVT and emissions control, here is a primer:

By law, emissions control systems like we have on the LLY/LBZ engines must monitor the engine to see if the smog control system functions properly.

Since there is no Air/Fuel ratio requirement on a diesel, and the soot issue, we do not have Oxygen Sensors. So to see if the engine is running right, it looks at how much air is going into the engine. When you modify the exhaust system or the intake system, it changes the numbers coming from the sensors, and they sometimes do not fit into the formula GM uses to tell if the EGR and MAF are working right. Since it does not know "why" it's seeing the wrong numbers, it makes an educated guess, which are MAF and EGR trouble codes we see on VVT engines.

Your GM Dealer cannot "fix" these codes if they are caused by changes in the factory intake or exhaust system. You can complain all you want, but the only way GM can remove the codes is to return you to stock.

Hence the "hot rodders" in the aftermarket industry have come up with ways to remove these codes. "Fingers" was the first guy to fix the problem when it was observed on the first LLY's, and he is not a million dollar parts mfr. We all owe a debt of gratitude to him. He did not get rich doing it (understatement), and since then other companies copied his idea for $$$.

You have two choices in the matter: Stay stock, or look for a fix from the Hot Rod guys.

You will notice that neither of the choices was "b i t c h at your dealer"...

Not to mention it's a violation of federal law to modify in anyway stock emissions gear. Certainly doesn't stop many from doing it, but don't expect much sympathy when you get caught. I've heard of plenty of North Easterners & Kalifornians have been busted for running catless.

Not in Kalifornia on diesels.

Currently, we do not have smog testing on diesels.

Not in Kalifornia on diesels.

Currently, we do not have smog testing on diesels.

You may not get in trouble locally then, but you are still violating federal law. Though just getting up in the AM and breathing will do that :).

I agree, Find another dealer. I dont recall the dealer but down south they where selling trucks already lifted. Aftermarket exhaust and power programers right off the showroom floor.

This is the statement I was making reference to. I don't believe Regency will do Aftermarket exhause and power programmers.

just live with the light and wait to see if fingers comes up with the stick to eliminate the catless codes. Or try placing a free flowing muffler that will allow soem back pressure. Some people have had luck with flowmaster or some others that provide enough back pressure.

Quite frankly, the Catalytic Converter is one of the worst ideas in the history of diesel engines (along with EGR). I'ts nothing more than a soot trap that WILL plug, and thus WILL have to be replaced. I imagine a new converter for our trucks is near a grand to replace. I know the CC assy on my Cougar is at least $1200 from Ford. EGR is just gunking up the engine. Anyone who doesn't think EGR is a bad idea on a diesel obviously hasn't seen the intake of an EGR equipped diesel. When I took my intake off to drill/tap it for a boost gauge, one port was about 60% restricted, the other about 45%, and the rest of the intake? -:t

We need to get rid of all the stupid tree hugging hippies. The crap they made auto Mfgrs put on the diesels took trucks that would get mid 20's on the highway lucky to get high teens. How exactly is burning MORE fuel good for the environment?:confused: They claim that emissions from fossil fuels are causing global warming... Ummm... No. They MIGHT be contributing, but NOT causing. Look at history. From what we can tell, global warming has happened before. LOOOOONG before fossil fuels existed as such.

:rant: off...

Which dealer? Name please, anonymity is sometimes regarded as lacking in truth.


Robins Chevrolet - Humble, TX

Thank you for the information. I now have a better understanding of my vehicle and why the dealer made this decision.

1. Bully Dog does not turn off EGR code on LBZ (unless its in the newest software release)

2. You are sick of hearing about people that change stuff on the truck and then the check engine light is on as a direct result? And you expect the dealer/GM to do something about it?



yes but it does clear codes.:eek:

Robins Chevrolet - Humble, TX

Banston Chevrolet Fort Worth puts Pro Crap 6" inch lifts, Pro Crap 35" tires, flow master 4" exhaust on 10-20 trucks per year. They also sell Hypertech programmers in the parts department.

Just because you have not seen one does not make a person a liar.

:iamwithst

Banston Chevrolet Fort Worth puts Pro Crap 6" inch lifts, Pro Crap 35" tires, flow master 4" exhaust on 10-20 trucks per year. They also sell Hypertech programmers in the parts department.

Just because you have not seen one does not make a person a liar.

Hey,

What happens to warranty on these trucks? With lifts and programmers, how can they honour it?

Hey,

What happens to warranty on these trucks? With lifts and programmers, how can they honour it?

I have never tried to get anything repaired under warranty that was not under warranty. I have however had upper control arms and brake rotors replaced under warranty after my lift and tires had been installed. I guess it depends on the relationship you build with the dealership.

My understanding of dealers that install the aftermarket programmers and lift kits is; that the dealership installing the items are going to cover the item installed. It may not be covered by all dealerships but the dealership that install it will cover it.

As to the original post I do not see how you could expect a dealership to fix something under warranty, if it is not working the way it is designed to work due to a alteration. I have argued my point several other time in other post as it relates to injectors trannies and such. As a whole the majority of people that mod the piss out of there trucks realize the inherent risk of adding the mods and deal with them in their own way.

Quite frankly, the Catalytic Converter is one of the worst ideas in the history of diesel engines (along with EGR). I'ts nothing more than a soot trap that WILL plug, and thus WILL have to be replaced. I imagine a new converter for our trucks is near a grand to replace. I know the CC assy on my Cougar is at least $1200 from Ford. EGR is just gunking up the engine. Anyone who doesn't think EGR is a bad idea on a diesel obviously hasn't seen the intake of an EGR equipped diesel. When I took my intake off to drill/tap it for a boost gauge, one port was about 60% restricted, the other about 45%, and the rest of the intake? -:t

We need to get rid of all the stupid tree hugging hippies. The crap they made auto Mfgrs put on the diesels took trucks that would get mid 20's on the highway lucky to get high teens. How exactly is burning MORE fuel good for the environment?:confused: They claim that emissions from fossil fuels are causing global warming... Ummm... No. They MIGHT be contributing, but NOT causing. Look at history. From what we can tell, global warming has happened before. LOOOOONG before fossil fuels existed as such.

:rant: off...



amen

The C4500 and C5500 LLY's, there are no LBZ's available yet, don't even have a CAT on the showroom floor. Given that all in the power train is the same:

WHY ARE YOUR TRUCKS WITH CATS REMOVED AFTER THE FACT THROWING CODES THAT TRUCKS BUILT WITHOUT CATS AREN'T?

Seriously, I want to know???

The C4500 and C5500 LLY's, there are no LBZ's available yet, don't even have a CAT on the showroom floor. Given that all in the power train is the same:

WHY ARE YOUR TRUCKS WITH CATS REMOVED AFTER THE FACT THROWING CODES THAT TRUCKS BUILT WITHOUT CATS AREN'T?

Seriously, I want to know???Because the computers in the trucks that are built with CATs and EGR are programmed to look for back-pressure changes to determine if the EGR and CAT are working as designed. They have totally different programming in them as required by the EPA.

Took my cat off and the dealer didn't say a word about it. I even told him it was off before I took it to him. But I'm sure if I run into a problem and he feels that it's caused by me removing the CC he'll tell me to put it back on or live with it.

RayMich... Thanks for the explanation. :cool2: