Ok, guys. As you can see from my signature, I have a 2500HD. And just to set the record, I'm not trying to start a flame war - you can see by my post history, I don't do that sort of thing. I'm really just interested in learning.

So, here goes: I was checking out the chevrolet website about the pros and cons of the different HD line models - based on fifth-wheel (5'er) trailer ratings. I noticed the 2500's had a higher rating than the 3500's did. I realize that's probably because of the weight of the extra two tires/wheels. I also realize it's "only" 400 lbs capacity, but it's still 400 lbs less (see below)

So, here are my questions:
1. If the extra weight of the dual wheels bring down the 5'er rating, why get a dually to tow heavy?

2. What do the dual rear wheels do for you to make up for the loss in tow rating?

And just so we're on the same page, I've pasted the data from the Chevy website:

<-- see attachment -->


Both of these models are 4x4, regular cab, 8' bed, D-Max/Alli. The only difference is that one is a 2500HD and the other is a 3500 Dually.

Thanks guys (and girls if you're out there)

J

Gruffid, The 2500 will pull 400lbs more but the 3500 dually will carry a higher pin weight.
USA-1

:exactly: what,USA-1 said plus a dually offers more stability in towing a fifth wheel and travel trailer with the added comfort of knowing that you have to blow out two tires on the same side before she gets squirrelly.

The information on your attachment is not correct...it looks like the data for a 1 ton srw.

I'm researching the same thing you are... 3/4 or a 1 ton. In the 2006 Chevy brochure, the trucks in your example tow, for the 3/4 and 1 ton respectively 15600 and 16700. Also the GCWR is 22000 and 23500 respectively...GCWR for the srw 1 ton is 22000.

As for why get the dually for a 5th wheel. Both trucks will pull the majority of 5th wheels with no problem. The problem is the 3/4 cannot handle the pin weight and stay within GVWR limits (3/4 is 9200, dually is 11400). By the time you add the weight of a hitch, some cargo, couple of passengers, 2000 of PW will put you over the 9200. I'm looking at a 5th wheel with an empty PW of 2400, that means a loaded PW of 2700 to 2800...that's 1 ton dually territory.

So the bottom line is you do not get the dually necessarily to tow, but to carry the PW...the added stability of having those two extra wheels is a benefit of that particular vehicle...plus you get an extra 1500 in GCWR.

Old Soldier,

Your brochure may have different numbers than the Chevy Website, but here's the link to the chevy website:

http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/specifications/

It says 22,000 lbs GCVR for the dually. The only difference is the pin weight, as others mentioned (3,000 lbs for the 3/4 ton, 3,500 lbs for the 1 ton).

Because diesel dually's are cool ! :ro)

Namvet,

You won't hear me arguing on that. Just because I don't have one, doesn't mean I don't agree.

Guy's http://www.gmc.com/sierra/index.jsp click on this GMC web link then go to truck of your choice GMC Rules!!! :joke:

Yeah, I was just checking out GMC to see if their website has anything different. It seems they list their duallys having higher ratings . I have a hard time believing Chevy doesn't have the same ratings, but that's what they list.

But then, it only seems to be a 1,100lb benefit as opposed to the 1,500lb discussed. I edited it because the difference between the 3500 SRW and 3500 dually was 1,300lbs.

Once you tow heavy with a Dually, you'll never go back to SRW! You might have to get used to parking a little farther away from the entrance to your favorite watering hole but its well worth it.

Gruffid,
Let me just say this, Most Dually purchasers buy for very specific reasons. I can say I have been in both alot (2500HD and 3500 DRW). If you carry a large camper the stability of driving is absolutely worlds apart. With a Tag trailer the stability is also significantly noticed. Towing a goose I did not notice huge towing difference but sure noticed the rear wheels on the 2500HD looked like they were working double time. Again the DRW assist huge with that. 2 tires on each side out back increases stability and displace load on rear tires.

Now on a personal note. Dually's look awesome. plus, you do not have to sit for hours looking at the zillion of wheel options. We have very few. The Hype between GMC and Chevy is just that. The ratings are the same. I like both, I just prefer Chevrolet.

Gruffid,

Scroll on down the chart. The 22000 GCWR is for the 8.1 gasser, the D/A option and the dually get it to 23500.

Also, GM will tell you the 2500 will take a pin weight of 3000...but if you add that to your truck, you are already at GVWR, and in most cases over that weight. It is totally unrealistic for them to state that, but technically it is correct.

Old Soldier,

I don't know if you're looking at the GMC one or the Chevy one, but my eyes show that for the Chevy D/A it's 22,000lbs with the 4 note saying that the 22,000lbs is for the automatic transmission, and that the rating for the manual transmission is 1,500lbs less.

Attached is a direct copy/paste:

I will concede to the pin weight information, though.

Like Nitro fish said once you tow heavy with a dually you never go back. Had a 2500 prior the last 3 have been duallys and that's not gonna change. Duallies rule.:ro)

Bulldogger,

I'll have to take your words for it. I must admit, I've never driven nor towed with a dually. And my intent is not to beat anyone up, but if someone else sees that it says 23,500lbs GCWR, please tell me. Or at least confirm I'm looking at the right table where it says 22,000lbs.

Thanks,

J

My 05 chevy brochure says its 23500 as well.My owners maunal shows 23500 to back it up.SRW are 22k.I have towed with SRW and now with duals.Duals rule.Totally stable and looks byotchin.

Don't know where that chart's from, but it's not correct. My dealer and both the 2005 and 2006 brochures both say the GCWR for the dually D/A is 23500, the 8.1 and the 2500 have GCWRs of 22000. The manual xmsn reduces the dually's GCWR to 22000. Also, you'll notice the guys with the duallys will tell you it's 23500.

Chevy really makes this hard. I have been trying to find the exact weight of the 2500 D/A. Damn near impossible...sent Chevy three emails, got one answer saying they did not know...did not even respond to the other two. Called the 800# a few times, got some gal who knew nothing. BTW, do you know what your 2500 weighs...maybe you can help!

Is there a reason you are so concerned about the Weight capacity? Anything a SRW can tow, a DRW will do better. Just look around the next time you're at the local dragstrip, pay attention to the longer trailers & see what the tow vehicle is. If you are planning on towing & have any friends with a Dually, talk them into letting you do a test pull with their truck (they'll probably be more than happy to show off their beast), then pull the same trailer with a single wheel; I'd be willing to bet all questions will be answered. If you're trying to determine if the SRW will handle your trailer and its marginal, you can't go wrong with the Dually. I've owned both and pull trailers anywhere between 5000 lbs - 17,000 lbs, I will tell you this, anything under 7500 lbs is like riding around with an ATV in your bed:ro), you won't even know its behind you. I'll bet if you check with anyone pulling a heavy toyhauler, (that has ever pulled with a Dually), they will say they'll never go back to a SRW.

duallies are ugly in my opinion but some like them. they do offer more stability while towing like everyone is saying but a srw does the job for me. :grd:

:eek: Ugly????????

Whats not to love?

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19406&d=1147049619

Whats not to love?

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19406&d=1147049619that little red "x"):h

duallies are ugly

I agree. I have loved duallys in the past but hate the newer beds. Thats why I got SRW and and going to be putting old style fenders on it.

DuramaxDavid,
Really, you do not like the beds? Man I LOVE the new one piece look. I love how the body line rolls always the back.The 2 piece deals always looked liked someone threw it on the side of the bed. Plus it always let water and sand blow up between the bed and bolt on wheel wells. I have owned 93, 96 and now my 01 so I have had them over the last 13 years. The new beds look much much better..IMHO...Now I do admit, you clip one now and you have to replace the entire side.

Its wierd but for some reason I cant stand them. Im more of a straight line kind of guy not a curved line kind of guy I guess. Thats why i got and o4 and not an o1. The front ends look to rounded for my likin.

Ok, Ok, I'm done arguing. Thanks for the info guys.

Here's why I have so much interest in the wieght ratings and towing abilities of the 3/4 vs. 1-tons both SRW and Dually. If you check my sig. I have a 37' toy hauler and my current 3/4 ton isn't rated for the toy hauler fully loaded (max 5'er capacity is 14,800lbs) The toy hauler's gross weight is 15,500lbs. So, I'm trying to plan for my next new truck... in a couple of years.

Thanks guys.

J

one last post....3500 srw's rule!

I had to!):h

Gruf,
I'm pulling a 40ft CrossTerrain, 22,000 on the scales without the motorcycles. Either one ton truck will do single or dually. I'm personally more comfortable with the dually. Changing lanes and even in strong cross winds it allows for more stability and greater contact with the road 6 over 4. You need to buy the one that fits your needs better, plenty of people use 3500 single wheels and hey it's two less tire you need to buy when the time comes. I'm just wondering if duramaxdavid applies the same taste to his women???:joke:

one last post....3500 srw's rule!Again, waiting for you to chime in on this one, MN. Y'all watch this guy, he'll tell you real men don't use training wheels (or some other foolishness like that). ):h

Don't know where that chart's from, but it's not correct. My dealer and both the 2005 and 2006 brochures both say the GCWR for the dually D/A is 23500, the 8.1 and the 2500 have GCWRs of 22000. The manual xmsn reduces the dually's GCWR to 22000. Also, you'll notice the guys with the duallys will tell you it's 23500.

Chevy really makes this hard. I have been trying to find the exact weight of the 2500 D/A. Damn near impossible...sent Chevy three emails, got one answer saying they did not know...did not even respond to the other two. Called the 800# a few times, got some gal who knew nothing. BTW, do you know what your 2500 weighs...maybe you can help!

My 04.5 club cab, regular bed, 2500HD duramax with auto weighed 7,200 lbs with me, 50 lbs of tools and a 26 gallons of fuel.

When I bought the new camper it was 1000 lbs over the trucks rated weight and I traded it in for the current dually...

I am a member of our local rescue squad and we have a enclosed 24 trailer loaded with 4 wheelers and a ranger and a lot or rescue stuff in it. It is heavy we pull it with a f250 super duty ford 4x4 crew cab and at 65 it is all over the road. I pull it with my 05 dually 4 door 4x4 and i can pull it over 80 mph and it is stable. It also will keep up with the super duty running empty and my dually pulling the trailer running sig 9.
THERE'S NOTHING SHARPER THAN A BIG A$$ DUALLY CRUISING DOWN THE ROAD....

I regularly pulled 17,000 lbs with my '01 LB7 2500HD LS Reg Cab 4WD Chev using contact overloads and a Reese Titan hitch equipped with a pintle hook. The truck pulled the load well, but I knew a dual-wheeled rig would do it better and safer.

So I ordered and received an '06 LBZ 3500 4WD GMC SLE Reg Cab/Chassis w/custom flatbed and hitch. Towing the same load (Towmaster 10-ton capacity equipment trailer and 10,000 lb tractor) with the new truck provided much improved stability and braking. I am also pleased with the Prodigy brake controller in my new truck.

Cab chassis also has 2 fuel tanks (50 gal capacity), heavier frame/springs/GVW and huge rear anti-sway bar. Recommend going this route over box-delete or box-to-F/B switch. I chose a 60-inch back-of-cab to centerline of rear axle version over the 84-inch, as I use this vehicle essentially as a pickup when not towing. 60-inch accepts 9 foot bed, 84-inch a 12 foot. You can also order a crew cab with a 60-inch cab/axle length.

I say order because you're not likely to find a commercial truck in any color other than white and they're not usually equipped with many creature comforts. Look for a commerical truck dealer who has experience ordering custom-equipped trucks.

Bulldogger......):h

Now thats funny about Duramax David.....:muahaha:

My 04.5 club cab, regular bed, 2500HD duramax with auto weighed 7,200 lbs with me, 50 lbs of tools and a 26 gallons of fuel.

When I bought the new camper it was 1000 lbs over the trucks rated weight and I traded it in for the current dually...


Thanks for the info...you verified what I've been thinking. The 2500HD will not handle much more than 2000# of 5th wheel pin weight, and stay within GVWR.

I'll have to take your words for it. I must admit, I've never driven nor towed with a dually. And my intent is not to beat anyone up, but if someone else sees that it says 23,500lbs GCWR, please tell me. Or at least confirm I'm looking at the right table where it says 22,000lbs.

Thanks,

J



The chart that you posted and is posted on the Chevy website that shows the specs for the 6600 D/A is the ratings for the LLY engine. At the time of that publish, the LLY was the standard 6600. The GCVWR for the LBZ is 23.5K More horsepower will allow a heavier load to be towed.

GCVWR is basically established by HP, TQ and gear ratio's.

Had a dually and now have a srw. Duallies handle the big loads much better. I'll be going back to one next time.

Don't know where that chart's from, but it's not correct. My dealer and both the 2005 and 2006 brochures both say the GCWR for the dually D/A is 23500, the 8.1 and the 2500 have GCWRs of 22000. The manual xmsn reduces the dually's GCWR to 22000. Also, you'll notice the guys with the duallys will tell you it's 23500.

Chevy really makes this hard. I have been trying to find the exact weight of the 2500 D/A. Damn near impossible...sent Chevy three emails, got one answer saying they did not know...did not even respond to the other two. Called the 800# a few times, got some gal who knew nothing. BTW, do you know what your 2500 weighs...maybe you can help!

I would suggest looking here....
http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/
Certain models have a weight calculator. See attached.
Pretty sure most GM hotlines won't know that !!:)

Here is the exact link...
http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/proddesc.jsp?year=2005&butID=1&regionID=1&divisionID=1&vehicleID=1142&type=0
Then click on "Model and Option Weights"

Stability with a load! Nuff said.......

Lennart...thanks, but I've been on those sites and the weights are always too light. The only way to find the true weight of your truck and what it can carry are:

1. Get the weight from the dealer on the invoice for the truck...it includes nothing but five gallons of fuel.

2. Take the GVWR off the sticker on the door or door pillar.
Take "The combined weight of cargo and occupants the vehicle should never exceed" from the "Tire and Loading Information" sticker on either the pillar or door.

GVWR - comb wt never to exceed = EW

The empty weights from #1 and #2 above should be very close.

Stability with a load! Nuff said.......

:exactly: Stability and Safety. I've been hauling cars with my 2500HD SRW, and will be moving up to a larger trailer and a 3500 DRW. I've had up to 17,000 lbs behind my SRW shortbed, and it was ok, but I need to move up.

For a daily driver, and occasional tow'er, I'd recommend SRW as it makes for easier parking, maneuvering, etc.. If you tow a lot, go DRW.

Right on! I hauled my 37' 5er with a 2500 HD SRW Dmax and it hauled the trailer great except for the side to side motion. The DRW fixed that little problem! :grd:

Well I went the other way !! 3, 1 ton duallys since 97 now a 2500HD CCLB single,with air bags. I have towed for over 500,000 miles, so I guess i have a little experience. With the air bags for the 5th wheels, & using a weight dist. hitch on the TT's, I have no problems. Of course I also don't try to tow at 75-80mph as a few have posted. Also when you have a blow-out on a dually, most times there goes those nice big bubble butts !!! Maybe I am fortunate but I feel if you keep decent tires on, blow outs have a very low chance of happening. JMO

IMO, if you need the airbags, that should tell you you're over capacity, I've used both the Air-Lift and the Firestone bags on 2 different 3/4 ton Suburbans, I would'nt trade anything for the stability (with stock leaf springs, no bags) that you get with the DRW's. $1400.00 for a rear fender due to a blowout is better than loosing your whole rig if you blow a tire or melt (or puncture) one of your air lines to the bags. I never had any problems with the bags, but the potential is there, just my 2¢ worth.

I agree Nitro if you buy a big enough truck to begin with you won't need to add all the "stuff" to make it do a job it was never designed to do.

Interesting. There are advantages in all fields for sure (2500HD-3500SRW-3500DRW). However just because it comes from the factory that way (made for a billon people) doesn't make it right for every one. Tie rods on them for instance. I use air bags to level my truck with my slide in camper setting in the back. How about cross winds with a big slide in as well. I found them useful to take some of the lean out of the rig with heavy cross winds by adjusting the side to side pressure on the bags. With out this feature I though I was going over a few times. There will alway be debate in this arena. I like getting the largest carring capacity I can in a LIGHT DUTY and being done with it. That doesn't make it rite for every one though. The funniest thing I ever heard from some of my friends was "I'll never exceed the capacity of this (1/2 or 3/4 ton) truck" like there a clairvoyant or something. Shoot, my slide in when fully loaded with stuff for a trip exceeds my 3500 DRW capacity by 300-500+lbs every time and it's only a 10' model. I saw a guy load 2/3 cord of wet wood in a Ranger one time that said the same thing and still thought there was no problem. As long as you have the right truck for the job (it will never be pefect), that's all you can do, and most importaintly you must enjoy what you have.

Besides all the technical in's and out's - they are just too cool!

The sidewall flex in a SRW with a heavy load is just flat scary. If your hauling heavy def do duals. You def wake up when a semi goes by ya on a narrow road with a SRW. :)

IMO, if you need the airbags, that should tell you you're over capacity, I've used both the Air-Lift and the Firestone bags on 2 different 3/4 ton Suburbans, I would'nt trade anything for the stability (with stock leaf springs, no bags) that you get with the DRW's. $1400.00 for a rear fender due to a blowout is better than loosing your whole rig if you blow a tire or melt (or puncture) one of your air lines to the bags. I never had any problems with the bags, but the potential is there, just my 2¢ worth.

I put the Timbren SES equalizers on the back, $150 or so. Easier than airbags, no air lines, etc. Mainly to level the rig out, not necessarily to over-exceed the rated towing capacity.

I admit I've been over the 14k towing cap, to the tune of 3000 over. I agree nothing beats the stability of a DRW. It depends on the use and needs of the owner/driver. I originally bought my 2500HD as a daily driver/work vehicle, and didnt' want the DRW for size reasons but have already ordered one (07 GMC Classic) for towing the heavy stuff.

I always worry about a TIRE blow out on my SRW with 15,000 or so behind me. Good luck controlling that one, right? Hello OnStar, I just got a flat and now my truck is totalled. Please help!:help:

More Stability when hauling heavy loads...

I took care of the sidewall flex with my 225/75/19.5's (load range F)
stock tires s**k

I was really pleasantly surprised with my insurance premium relative to the value of the truck (see sig.). Somewhere on here, I read a post which stated that on a dollar-for-dollar value basis, a 3500 is cheaper to insure than a 2500. I think the result is based mostly on the actuarial experience of the 3500 vs the 2500. Maybe this is a reflection of the driving experience of the 3500 driver pool, more fleet usage, etc. but for whatever reason, they're not wrecked as much, or they're not wrecking into things as much, and therefore the payout experience is lower.

Some of above is guesswork on my part - can anyone vouch for this perception with real data?

I will have to say a dooley is the only way to go.

Last time around a sales man tried to talk me into a HD 2500 telling me a 3500 was over kill for my light 12500 pound travel trailer. However it all comes down to what the truck can carry. I proved to him I would overload a HD2500 Cew Cab 4x4 with the Duramax and allison.

Crew Cab 4x4 HD2500 was 7125 pounds empty which leaves 2075 pounds carrying capacity. Now subtract 1200 pounds for tongue weight and you have 875 left. The hitch that goes in the reciever is 65 pounds. Now I have 810. Subtract me and the wife and I have 485 pounds left. Load the dog, 190 pounds and two girls (115 and 110) and I have 70 pounds of capacity left. I still have not put a tool box in the bed of the truck, or nay fire wood or any bikes. And I sure cant put my 700 pound Harley in the Bed. Plus I am running real close to the 2200 combination rating.

Now with my 3500 dooley I can put all the same stuff in the bed and my 700 pound Harley and still have over 700 pounds of carrying capacity left. I am also over 1000 pounds less than the combination rating.

Dooley is the only way to go in my opinion. Been driving them since 92. All three of my daughters took their driving tests in crew cab dooleys.

I also went from a 2500HD , Glad I made the change,

Duallys do rock! Been jammin a 6.5ltd since 94! And a dodge cummins dually since '98!

Once you are bit by a dually...you will never go back!

as far i can read on this post, not a word on fuel mileage.

Don't know about the rest of the doolley owners But I did not buy it for the fuel mileage.

the dodge dually (ISB Cummins) will get 21 without anything attached...driving like an old fart. 3.5:1 gears will do that at highways speeds. ;)

My LBZ (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/autolink.php?id=22&script=showthread&forumid=140) gets about 13 MPG in city and just a little over 20 MPG on the highway.

Don't know about the rest of the doolley owners But I did not buy it for the fuel mileage.

What he said!

As others have said...
Once you own a dually and tow with it, you won't feel safe towing with anything else.
That's about all I can say about that. :ro)

OK guys, Ive owned both to pull a big 5th wheel, started with 04 2500hd 4x4 Duramax/Allison, 14,000lb trailer. Not a good experiance. Except in the best conditions it was white knucle's most all the time. Plenty of power, but little or no lateral stability with aprox. 3000lb pin weight. Conversely 06 3500 4x4 Duramax/Allison Big Dooooooley 65 mph, lock the cruise, tune the xm, set the seat back and try not to fall asleep. All hail the King.

:ro) :grd:

as far i can read on this post, not a word on fuel mileage.

You loose about 1 to 1.5 mpg with a dooley. Very Very small price for safety, and stablility. Also a lot more payload.

From this thread I guess I am not the only one who cannot find the printed weight of my 2500HD with the D/max. I did weight it at a CAT scale recently configured for towing my 6000 lb trailer (the main reason to be at the scale). It came in at 7045 lb with driver 3 kids and thier stuff, hitch, step bars, mud flaps, bed liner, 4 bed hooks and just a few pieces of wood. I did not note the fuel tank level at the time.
That seems to be lower than others have recorded so by the time I have 2 adults and 3 kids I would have 2000 lb pin weight available before 9200 lb GVW.

You may find this link useful in determing your weight -
http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/dmdindex.htm

The express path for 2500 is -
http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/proddesc.jsp?year=2005&regionID=1&divisionID=1&type=0&vehicleID=1142&section=modelhome&page=&butID=1