Hi All,

Recently there was an incident where someone managed to brain dead an LLY ECM to the point where EFILive or TechII could not communicate with the ECM to attempt a recovery (it wasn't done with EFILive I should add :uhoh2: ).

Well, I had the ECM sent to me and thought some might be interested in the steps required to recover the ECM in these situations.
It's not much fun, always results in burnt fingers, some blood and a few choice words, but for me, it's a nice change from staring at a PC screen all day.

The first pic is the inside view of the ECM with the bottom cover removed.
All the pins from the connectors need to be de-soldered (within the red square) to gain access to the flash chip.
http://efidownload.iqd.co.nz/software/GMPX/LLY1.jpg

An hour or so later :Insane: ........(the flash chip is the one in the red square).
http://efidownload.iqd.co.nz/software/GMPX/LLY2.jpg

The next step is to remove the flash chip from the PCB so it can be programmed in a chip programmer.
http://efidownload.iqd.co.nz/software/GMPX/LLY3.jpg

Once the chip has been programmed back with data that will get the ECM up and running again it's then a matter of re-soldering the chip back on the PCB and re-soldering all the connectors back on and seal up the case.

The good news is, this ECM is alive and well again.
Interesting thing, the LB7 ECM only takes about 25mins to do this same procedure because you don't need to de-solder 185 pins to get to the chip!

Cheers,
Ross

:eek:

Hardcore dude!

I've swapped chips on PC boards, but not surface mount ones. Just the kind where the pins stick through the board. I'm lucky if I can see the pins! :D

Thanks for the info Ross. You know burnt fingers builds character.:rolleyes: It might be nice to know who on this site has the ability to reflash the chip.

Ross that ECM looks vaugely familiar... ):h :eek:


any idea how it happend? I thought LLY ECM's were impossible to kill?

Ross that ECM looks vaugely familiar... ):h :eek:


any idea how it happend? I thought LLY ECM's were impossible to kill?

It looks like it was dropped out of the back of truck! :confused:

:eek:
I'm lucky if I can see the pins! :D
I had great vision until my early 20's when I started working with electronics......years on I wear glasses all the time :rolleyes:

Thanks for the info Ross. You know burnt fingers builds character.:rolleyes: It might be nice to know who on this site has the ability to reflash the chip.
Oh trust me when it comes to anything but typing on a keyboard and me it involves blood, I skin my knuckles just changing oil!.

Ross that ECM looks vaugely familiar... ):h :eek:


any idea how it happend? I thought LLY ECM's were impossible to kill?

Well, not impossible, but harder!
Looks like the ECM had a 2004 O.S in it and got 2005 calibrations programmed in, which basically puts data in the wrong spot.
Rest easy Ben, EFILive won't allow that to happen.
I'll post it back tomorrow.

Cheers,
Ross

Looks like that might be a 800 chip? To get DSP2 to work you have to have a lot of memory.

Greg

That is all Thermal paste on the casing? That stuff is supposed to be applied in a very thin layer.

LLY chips have 1024k and LB7's have 512k of memory IIRC..

The DSP2 OS's are the same file size as the standard OS. The DSP2 section doesnt have an entire new set of ALL the ECM tables, just 14 "main" tables that are needed to adjust basic performance tuning. Its best I think to have the "driving" tune on the DSP2, and then have the "performance" tune on the normal mode, because the normal mode has many more adjustable tables so you can fine tune the normal mode much better.

Well, not impossible, but harder!
Looks like the ECM had a 2004 O.S in it and got 2005 calibrations programmed in, which basically puts data in the wrong spot.

Thanks Ross!:D

Yeah, that makes sense, that ECM was the one I bought from Trippin, so it could have been out of any LLY truck. Laptop was dead, so I programmed with the PPE,:o: which had an 05 OS in it.

However the first (OEM) ECM that we killed, EFILive couldnt recover it.:confused: Tony tried multiple times and it kept saying the ECM is in an unknown state. This happend when we were doing a full flash. We did not pull any fuses. The flash stopped like halfway thru and said the ECM is in an unknown state. Truck wouldnt even crank IIRC. We tried to do a full flash over again, but the ECM wouldnt accept it, it was still in an unknown state. Curiously tho, after we tried full flashing again, it would crank, but not start.:confused: That ECM was later recoverd with a Tech 2 and dealer flash.

In the future will EFILive be able to have the identical capabilities of programming as a Tech 2? It seems in a few rare instances, EFILive cant recover it, but a Tech 2 can...any idea why this is?

thanks again!

Ben

It looks like it was dropped out of the back of truck! :confused:

:funnypost :eek:

I actually did almost drop it at one point! Then after it wouldnt even communicate with anything, I nearly drop kicked it into the garbage.):h

I know who will be getting an ECM from me if I ever have one crash. Ross and Paul are the shiznizzy!! How much is shipping from the USA to the land of Fosters?

In the future will EFILive be able to have the identical capabilities of programming as a Tech 2? It seems in a few rare instances, EFILive cant recover it, but a Tech 2 can...any idea why this is?

I don't agree sorry, I can stop a full reflash at any stage on an LLY and EFILive recovers fine. I don't know what happened in your case.

Cheers,
Ross

I know who will be getting an ECM from me if I ever have one crash. Ross and Paul are the shiznizzy!! How much is shipping from the USA to the land of Fosters?

Shipping is about $20, but it's not a fun job, I don't want to make a habit of it!.

Cheers,
Ross

P.S - No-one here drinks Fosters, we just ship all that crap out to the other suckers......errr, sorry, countries.

I think the connectors in the case are removable if you know where to press. I will have to look again when I get home. I could be wrong.

The console code for loading/unloading the flash through the OBD is also on the flash chip and if you mess up when you overwrite that area, the CPU goes brain dead. The CPU itself has a console program to comunicate, but you have to drag a specific pin low and then use a specific pair of pins. I don't even know if these are wired to the outside world on that card.

The console code for loading/unloading the flash through the OBD is also on the flash chip and if you mess up when you overwrite that area, the CPU goes brain dead. The CPU itself has a console program to comunicate, but you have to drag a specific pin low and then use a specific pair of pins. I don't even know if these are wired to the outside world on that card.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

so every time you full flash an ECM, theres a time that it CAN go dead?

BootBlocks, BDM port, this is getting more like my kind of coversation :)

Cheers,
Ross

Getting a little deep here, but yes, there is a chance. The burning program has to keep specific information in the correct place for the CPU to find it. A full blown programming suite manages the locations and data as well as setting the seed on the CPU. Table mungers, such as EFI, (no offense) only twidle the table data in place. To stay safe, they only need to compare table addresses and/or cal serial numbers.

BootBlocks, BDM port, this is getting more like my kind of coversation :)

Cheers,
Ross

I know a guy who loaded RTLinux onto a GM ECM via the BDM port. The CPU, I'm told, has a full PowerPC core. I don't know if it is capable of doing anything usefull, however.

I thought it was only 16 bit?

arent PowerPC's 32 bit?

The older ECM's (80's / early 90's) are based on the 68HC11.
The later 90's to mid 2000 are based on the 68332.
The new ECM's (like the LBZ and LS7) are PowerPC based (MPC561).

Cheers,
Ross

so the Delphi 16 bit ECM's (like the LB7 and LLY) are based on the 68332?

interesting info, thanks Ross

so the Delphi 16 bit ECM's (like the LB7 and LLY) are based on the 68332?

interesting info, thanks Ross

Yes they are, but the CPU is not like any commercial one from Motorola, it's a Delphi special with a CAN and J1850 controller built in, probably other subtle differences too. In fact, there has been about 4 or 5 different part numbers stamped on the CPU over the years, so I guess they keep changing them in some way.

Cheers,
Ross

The 68xxx are all 32 bit cores. (CPU32) The data path width varies as well as the integrated i/o and the integrated flash (if any).

I have a white paper floating around my office somewhere with the full spec. I was well on my way to hacking the ECM at one time when other projects took my time.

I had this happen to me on a 98 vette only I was using tuner cat. The laptop went so sleep on me for some reason, so in turn made the PCM go to sleep, tech 2 wouldn't communicate and neither would tuner cat. SO what I did to recover from this was, I used GM TIS 2000 Software and set it to use the tech 2 as a pass through and stuffed in a stock cal using this method. I was sweating bullets on that one LOL. Luckly all went well, this was all done with a bench top harness too. Just another route to go with too.

This LLY ECM was beyond that, it had been tried.

Cheers,
Ross

Dat Bites LOL.

lol, I had to pull apart a couple of these and let me tell you.. No words can explain all the yelling that is involved... The crappy thing that happens is, you get all the way to the end, " 2 hours later for me" and you pry on the board a little and you hear a POP..... :( It is the worst feeling... It aint worth pulling it off the rest of the way cause it was something important popping off the board.......