what are the the symptoms of shorten rods?

Lower compression.......Smoke at an idle.

Why do you think the motor has shortened rods?

What is it doing that makes you think you have rod problems?

Any recent mods leading up to the symptoms?

Put the truck back to stock and see if the motor cranks over longer before starting than it did when it was new (easy test for possible low compression)

What are you injecting other than diesel?
a. Nitrous
b. Propane
c. Water
d. Methanol
e. all of the above

-Liquid in the motor that isn't injected in a very fine mist/spray or in gas form will give you problems.
-Too much timing from agressive programming and too much propane can give you problems.
-Too much timing from agressive programming and and too much methanol can give you problems.Edited by: mtomac

I am only using n20 and I have a mis at idle with some white smoke all back to stock now same thing does not take long to start.

I'm thinking you have an injector problem. Get the balance rates checked with a tech II or a Predator. At idle in park they should be -4mm3 to +4mm3. At idle in gear (foot on brake) they should be -6mm3 to +6mm3. The ones out of range are most likely the bad ones.Edited by: mtomac

what are the the symptoms of shorten rods?

Unhappy women http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Your funny hoot! personal experience speaking there

Yep, Check the injectors.

I am wondering what effect running high horsepower(w/ nitrous) has on injectors. Anoter motor had some way off injectors after some dyno runs with nitrous.
Can anyone explain that?

what are the the symptoms of shorten rods?

Unhappy women http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


HOOT I am proud of you. You actually have sense of humor.





ON A SERIOUS NOTE? What/how do you get shortened rods? Is that the same as saying a bent conecting rod?

personal experience speaking there

Whats funny about that http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

I got a diesel to make up for it http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif But then again.. don't really need it http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif Edited by: hoot

I have a predator handy I will check it out keep you posted

found the problem rod shorten.

did you pull the heads?

If nitrous was the culprit I'd know it by now. My injectors balance out very well

Edited by: mtomac

found the problem rod shorten.

please bring us up to speed

found the problem rod shorten.


I'd be surprised if you did without having a knock of some kind. To bend the rod and still keep the pin and rod bore parallel would be virtually impossible.

How do rods shorten? I mean what physically changes?Edited by: hoot

I'd be interested to know how bad the cylinder got scored/gouged...

me too???

F250SRW syndrome ?? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Those of you that know,know what I mean .....


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif Edited by: Mackin

well we have not taken the heads of just yet but one of the cylinders is down on compression the rest had about 385 and the one has 300 we think it is a rod but do not know for sure till we get it apart it still runs fine no knocking it just has a mis at idle and white smoke checked the injectors seem to be fine.If the rods are the problem I don't think the no2 is the problem I think the rods can not hold up with 750 hp.I am spraying a lot of n20 I make 528 on motor and the rest on n2o.

Low compression could also be a bad valve, bent pushrod, leaking injector sleeve or a headgasket.

I bet it is a dirty fuel filter. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

found the problem rod shorten.


we think it is a rod but do not know for sure till we get it apart it still runs fine no knocking


I dont know what you guys consider a shortened rod, but me thinks it wouldnt be running so smooth if it was. Dont jump to conclusions so fast.

Hoot well that is good news cause I would rather have one of what you mentioned than a bent rod. Ghetto we also thought that it would not run smooth with a bent rod but like I said before we have not taken it apart so these are assumptions.oh how could I have forgotten the fuel filter let me check that I wll let you guy's know if that fixed it.

White smoke = lean. That is why I suggested the diry fuel filter. Could be a stuck/clogged injector as well.


Is the smoke blue? That is more a sign of an oil control problem. The smoke will look white, but if you really look hard you will see a blue tint.


Heck I just remebered, antifreeze burns white. It is steam. Any bubbles in your coolant tank? Any smells of coolant out the tail pipe, excessive moisture at start up, coolant loss, coolant at the oil drain plug?

600, I wouldn't think a rod since even shortening it, it is still compressing the same amount of air.


My buddy put my NOS on his 289 and blew the headgasket out by a head bolt on the first pass and still picked up 1 second in 1/8 mile.


My guess is topend trouble, maybe piston/rings.

It's still going to have less compression in a cylinder with a bent rod because if the piston isn't going as high at tdc then it won't be compressing it as much and therefor lower cylider pressure. Edited by: Max Power

White smoke = lean. That is why I suggested the diry fuel filter. Could be a stuck/clogged injector as well.


Is the smoke blue? That is more a sign of an oil control problem. The smoke will look white, but if you really look hard you will see a blue tint.


Heck I just remebered, antifreeze burns white. It is steam. Any bubbles in your coolant tank? Any smells of coolant out the tail pipe, excessive moisture at start up, coolant loss, coolant at the oil drain plug?








Diesel will smoke blue with poor/incomplete combustion. "Lean-ness" is not an issue for smoking, and will not cause white smoke.

Kennedy,


Why does my truck smoke white on very cold mornings?


Why do trucks with to much N02 smoke white and layover?

Kennedy,


Why does my truck smoke white on very cold mornings?


Why do trucks with to much N02 smoke white and layover?





Smoke comes in different colors such as:


http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/blackcloud.gif Black = incomplete combustion


http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/bluecloud.gif Blue = unburned engine oil mixed in the exhaust, usually due to worn piston rings, cylinder liners, valve guides or other components


http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/whitecloud.gif White = droplets of unburned liquid fuel and water vapor, occurs typically at start-up, or idle


Bronco,


White smoke is not a lean condition. See the reason above for your startup condition. Of course, I may not know anything either so you be the judge. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

BMDMAX,


Neat graphics. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


What would be the symptoms of a lean condition?Edited by: Bronco

several diesels of varying makes smoke blue after startup on cold mornings

There will not be smoke if a diesel has a lean condition, it will just make less power than normal. Extra fuel = smoke.

Diesels run lean all the time when stock. More fuel = more power. That's how the tuner's and boxes work, they increase the amount of fuel injected.

There will not be smoke if a diesel has a lean condition, it will just make less power than normal. Extra fuel = smoke.





THANK YOU!

Kennedy,


Why does my truck smoke white on very cold mornings?


Why do trucks with to much N02 smoke white and layover?





Smoke comes in different colors such as:


http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/blackcloud.gif Black = incomplete combustion


http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/bluecloud.gif Blue = unburned engine oil mixed in the exhaust, usually due to worn piston rings, cylinder liners, valve guides or other components


http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/whitecloud.gif White = droplets of unburned liquid fuel and water vapor, occurs typically at start-up, or idle


Bronco,


White smoke is not a lean condition. See the reason above for your startup condition. Of course, I may not know anything either so you be the judge. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif








Better yet! Some people just don't get it...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif





I mean, don't get me wrong, if a guy has a question,don't hold it back, but when someone presents as a statement of fact...





I'll add: Color can be a very subjective thing. Diesel fuel, as an oil will smoke blue when burning poorly making some think it may be engine oil.


Edited by: Kennedy

[/QUOTE]





Diesel will smoke blue with poor/incomplete combustion. "Lean-ness" is not an issue for smoking, and will not cause white smoke.


[/QUOTE]


Kennedy,


All of the sudden you are acting like a know it all, when just 5 minutes earlier you typed the above quote. That is in direct contradiction with the chart you just used to prove me wrong. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


Maybe the entire concept of lean or rich is the wrong aproach to diesels? Maybe the color of smoke is highly subjective and can be caused from mixed symptoms. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif


I can tell you one thing for sure, white smoke at idle is caused from not enough atomized fuel/too much air/ or very cold conditions. Regardless of the cause, white smoke comes when the fuel is not even coming close to lifting off. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gifEdited by: Bronco

Diesel Smoke
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Let's fa

DIESEL SMOKE TESTING



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<TD id= vAlign=top width="100%">Well-maintained diesel truck engines should not emit excessive visible smoke, and modern diesel truck engines have been smoke-free since 1994. The presence of visible diesel smoke emissions are a significant concern in older engines and create an overall negative image for all diesel engines.


Smoke comes in different colors such as:


http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/blackcloud.gif Black = incomplete combustion


http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/bluecloud.gif Blue = unburned engine oil mixed in the exhaust, usually due to worn piston rings, cylinder liners, valve guides or other components


http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/whitecloud.gif White = droplets of unburned liquid fuel and water vapor, occurs typically at start-up, or idle


</TD>
<TD id=small vAlign=top align=middle width=160>The presence of smoke emissions equates to:

http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/smokechart01.gif
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<TD id= colSpan=2>Factors that contribute to higher smoke levels include:*
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<TD id=small vAlign=top width="60%">http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/warnsign.gif restricted air filter
http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/warnsign.gif improper injection timing
http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/warnsign.gif clogged, worn or mismatched fuel injectors
http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/warnsign.gif faulty fuel injection pump
http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/warnsign.gif defective or maladjusted puff limiter
http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/warnsign.gif low air box pressure
http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/warnsign.gif improperly adjusted valve lash or governor
</TD>
<TD id=small vAlign=top width="40%">http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/warnsign.gif malfunctioning turbocharger
http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/warnsign.gif malfunctioning aftercoolers
http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/warnsign.gif maladjusted fuel rack
http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/warnsign.gif defective air fuel controller
http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/warnsign.gif poor fuel quality
http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/warnsign.gif improper driving gear
http://www.dieselforum.org/factsheet/images/warnsign.gif air manifold leaks
</TD></TR></T></TABLE>


Measures to identify gross-emitters are now available:


The US Environm

So every farm tractor, semi tractor etc that stands at idle with blue smoke is burning crankcase oil? Watch trucks pull into a truck stop and proceed to idle. After several hours of operation they will start to put out a steady stream (often quite thin) of light blue smoke as they cool down and combustion efficiency drops. They are not lean. The reverse happens at startup. They will smoke blue and get progressively less as the engine warms up. Upon starting out they will gradually change from blue to black smoke or just clear up.





Guess I just learned something. Those guys had better go re-ring them and do the valve guides...Edited by: Kennedy

Hey Kennedy,


I highly doubt you learned anything! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ouch.gif


The first literature I posted above is from a tow truck company, the second is from a huge diesel organization! www.dieselforum.net http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gifEdited by: Bronco

http://www.jasperengines.com/flowdiesel.pdf


This link obviously applies to engines othere than the DMAX, however the idea is the same. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gifEdited by: Bronco

You guys are getting a bit personal. The idea behind a diesel is that you vary the fuel amount and try to get the maximum amount of air through the engine. That is why there is no throttle body. The mixture has no stoichiometric (I think that is the spelling) ratio like a gas engine. A gas engine can run lean. That is why there is a throttle body and a computer controlling fuel. You have to keep that ratio. If you don't you will ruin a gas engine. A diesel does not care. A diesel varies the ratio of fuel to air from about 125:1 to 5:1. There is no such thing as lean.

As someone said above, the coloring of smoke is very subjective. A light blueish white smoke is unburned fuel associated with cold cylinder temps. This should go away as cylinder temps increase. A White (real white) smoke is caused from raw unburnt fuel. This is usually associated with lowered compression race engines. Oil contamination will occur. I have actually seen raw fuel drop out the pipe on very low compression race motors.

White smoke will also come out if the timing is way off.

I edited my above post as to not be so personal.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif Edited by: Bronco

I have seen quite a few tractors and combines, that after they have been turned up, they smoke WHITE after startup- which is unburnt fuel and cold cylinders. Diesels are opposite from gas engines, gassers will get hot and melt down when ran too lean, a diesel just makes less power when lean. On the other hand a diesel gets hot and can melt when it is ran way rich, hence black smoke! Not trying to start anything, just stating my own observations.

This thread got a little pissy at times, but I have personally learned something. Inbetween the literature that was dug up and the user post.


Hopefully 600HP+duramax gets his motor fixed and accurately pinpoints the cause, so none of the high HP junkies repeat it.Edited by: Bronco

we found the problem or the problem found us two rods hanging out the side of the motor I gues it was some bent rods. Thanks for the reply's

OUCH!!!!

when did the rods window the block? I thought it was running fine other than the white smoke and rough idle?

After he took it to the track to see if he could bring the problem to the surface. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif Edited by: Bronco

I would love to see the hole and the rods. You got pics?

Didn't it spew oil all over?

careful hoots the enemy nowhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

careful hoots the enemy nowhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Not at all. I was hoping my request wouldn't be construed as a question of truthfullness. I take pics of everything.

I remember a long time ago working at a gas station... this little car comes in knocking and smoking. We lifted the hood... low and behold... we were watchin the engine running through a huge hole in it's side. Fastinating http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Nuke.gif

F250SRW hows the tranny ??..... I can smell it !!!!!





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif

threw the rods on the way to the track cruising at about 80 mph no picks yet maybe later.mtomac it was running fine besides the mis at idle.new motor going in on monday spoke with oliver rods yesterday and they want me to send them a rod to see if they can make me a set so I will keep you guy's posted maybe someone on here might want a set he said it would be cheaper if I get a couple of sets eventually everyone that is making over 700 hp will need them it is just a matter of time.OH and yes there was oil all over my friends white psd and the tow truck guy was not very happy either.

Pictures will cure the under current and help me ...





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

spoke with oliver rods yesterday and they want me to send them a rod to see if they can make me a set so I will keep you guy's posted maybe someone on here might want a set he said it would be cheaper if I get a couple of sets eventually everyone that is making over 700 hp will need them it is just a matter of time.


Get us a price I maybe interested http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

I am a distributor for Oliver so if you need any pricing assistance or help setting up a group buy you can email me.