Should be installing it in about a week. Hoping to hold off clutches and convertor until next spring http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif. Only reason I'm not doing a transgo is I'm doing the first part of a complete rebuild, will be going with triple disk convertor, clutches, etc., and want the adjustability of the CoPilot. Will it help? We shall see..


Mike

CoPilot is in. Definately firmer shifts, gonna wait for a while till things settle until I form an opinion. Right now the trans flares and then hits hard on shifts when under full throttle, rather disquieting. Going to have to play with settings. Also I'm sure my clutches and convertor are, well..http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif. I'm not going to run anything hotter than 110 program until full replacement is made.


As far as the install.. well, was fairly straightforward, but not without problems. The additional aluminum block and solenoid that is used was missing a roll pin. Once installed and under pressure the solenoid popped out and it was undriveable. A search of this forum located 04forme's post which pointed to the solenoid, thats how I discovered mine had the same issue. ATS indicated they had about 5 go out that were missing the pins from the manuf. I put a 1/8" roll pin in and now it works as it should.


Before the ATS flaming starts, few things to keep in mind. ATS has been always very helpful whenever I called with a question. The tech advised me about the problem when I called for a new solenoid, and stated that I could replace the pin myself if I wished. I asked if I could have a new one shipped overnight and they said that would be no problem. ATS is also one of the few (only?) full allison hop-ups you can get in kit form to install yourself. That runs the inherent risk of having things go wrong since they don't control the install. Shops that only do mods in-house have the luxury of testing the work and making sure it hits the door perfect, so It goes to say that kits will have more problems. I'm not defending the fact solenoids were delivered with defects, I'm just stating if it was overlooked and installed in-house, it would have been caught and corrected prior to the customer getting it.


I guess you could say this is an argument against do-it-yourself trans work, and that may be so. But the fact for me remains that I won't let anyone touch my ride unless absolutely necessary, so I'll do it myself if I can. For those who don't feel that comfortable with a wrench and have the funds, I say find a reputable trans shop and have them do the mods.


Here are some pics of my install, sticking it on the knee bolster wouldn't do, so I hogged out the cubby in the dash to make the CoPilot fit, and tried to get that semi-factory look. Also included is a pic of the solenoid in question, you can see the 1/8" hole which was missing the roll pin.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/9CA_DCP_1357.JPG


http://dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/6EA_DCP_1358.JPG





http://dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/A19_DCP_1362.JPG


&nb

Did you change the spring on the Trim A Solenoid?

Glad to see you got it fixed in quick order.

"Did you change the spring on the Trim A Solenoid?"


Yes, changed it out as directed. Reverse engagements are firm, I understand this is due to this spring? Drove about 50mi this evening on the quad 110. Shifts getting better, tow/haul the shifts are perfect. Still getting flare under accel. Floored it on the Fwy when in OD, just pulled hard, this is where I zinged it twice before, but with higher tune. I'm satisfied for now..
Edited by: VFRRider

VFRRIDER


Glad to see you back on the road,Please stay in touch about the performance issues as mine is still a little glitchy,as far as your comments about ATS,I will definately agree, Clint has a great Business and I look foward in doing more business in the future with them,I just hate to bother them with my problems if someone else might have had the same and wouldnt mind the free info.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

VFRRIDER


Glad to see you back on the road,Please stay in touch about the performance issues as mine is still a little glitchy,as far as your comments about ATS,I will definately agree, Clint has a great Business and I look foward in doing more business in the future with them,I just hate to bother them with my problems if someone else might have had the same and wouldnt mind the free info.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif








Let me get this straight. Are you saying that you spent big money with someone and the product is not right, but you don't want to bother them? Did i miss something here?

Can the entire Copilot be installed by dropping the pan only? I had called a few months back and a employee there told me I would have to slide the tranny back a little and reach up in to install something?

You can do the whole co-pilot by just dropping the pan.

I have spoke with them a couple times on this issue and we have gone over what some of the problems could be,I think if it is not resolved.I am sure they would refund me.I just like to ask questions to a forum like this to see if anyone may have had the same problems,It could help me and possibly others.

04forme


I was not making fun of you, just the opossite. I care about sevice to a customer that has spent money with me. He come first before new customers. You have shown your loyalty, now it's time for them.


mike

I agree,And I dont think you were making fun of me,no big deal. By the way you have a transmission shop right? I do to,But this is the first few Allisons I have worked on,my Question is What kind of Scan tool do you use? I have the OTC Gynisys System, and I cant really say I am happy with it.I would like to be able to reset Adapts on Allisons, Is the Tech2 the only one? Thanks,


Kenny

Can the entire Copilot be installed by dropping the pan only? I had called a few months back and a employee there told me I would have to slide the tranny back a little and reach up in to install something?


Sliding it back would probably be to change the main pump spring and the line modifyer valve which is the next step after a Co-Pilot.

Kenny


call me 310 674 4400 or give me a number and i will call you. I would love to talk to you.


mike

VFRRider,


Did you reset the tap cells or do a fast learn? If not, it could take quite a while for the thing to settle down.


It would be nice if all companies could manufacture product with a 0% defect rate. Unfortunately that is not the case. The difference is...in how the company deals with you when you have a problem with their product. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif

I don't have access to a tech II, how do you do a fast learn? I've heard drop it into L while on fwy, disconnect batteries, http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif. None of that sounds right. I'm a bit late on the trans upgrade, kind of hoping it holds together a while longer.

I only know about the Tech 2. A good question for Mike L.

The new updated Quad tuners are capable of putting the tranny in fast learn mode. I think you will still have to have the tech 2 to reset the tap cells.

The new updated Quad tuners are capable of putting the tranny in fast learn mode. I think you will still have to have the tech 2 to reset the tap cells.





Are you sure about that ?? I think it's reverse ...I'm almost positive a Tech II will be needed to Put into "Fast Learn" ....ReSetting Tap Cells removes all current shift adaptives ....


Mac Edited by: Mackin

My latest update of the Quad 165 has a "fast learn" option. Dunno about tech 2.

My latest update of the Quad 165 has a "fast learn" option. Dunno about tech 2.


There's spacific steps to take with Fast Learn ....Not saying it doesen't but I have my doubts ... It's my thought that Garage taps are just reset ...


RESET PROCEDURE for TECH2 Users.


Connect Tech2 Scanner as normal and acquire "transmission output controls" screen from the "Special Functions" menu.


--Clear all TAP Cells must be chosen. This clears all previous shift adaptives.


--Then Preset all TAP Cells. This sets all shift adaptives to a base value which will relearn over time.


OR


"Fast Learn Adapt Process" must be selected and follow the on screen instructions. The entire learn procedure will take up to 3 minutes as the transmission automatically applies and dumps clutch packs and relearns the new values. The final 3-4-5 shift will learn very quickly on highway in a few upshift/downshifts.

TAPs can be cleared and reset with a SNAPON scanner, I know how to do it. All you need is a 2001 cartridge and a quick phone call to me while you have scanner in hand hooked up to Duramax. There are some glitches with the Tech 2. Unless you have the very latest update, you must clear each TAP individually and go back and recheck them. I recently spent an hour on my cell phone (Tech 2 hooked to my Dmax) with Vetronix and they finally admitted they are working on the problem.


mike

Just kinda curious about something. I am planning on getting a new trans for a bigger box but going with ATS and doing it in stages like you guys may be a cool idea. Right now I am just running around on my juice set to 90hp. I've never zinged the trany or anything although I did get into it on the highway in level 5 without downshifting my attitude jumped to 2%slip or so as soon as I got on it so I imediatly let off. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif I assume I was blowing through the stock converter?


So will just the ATS copilot piss off the factory converter especially with its added converter enguagement if someone was running a 125 or 145 juice? or even a 90......


If I was going ATS it would be cool to run around with my juice box cranked up for a bit untill I wanted to tear my tranny all the way down.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif Wouldnt have to drop all the $ up front and maybe a hot juice would satisfy me, for a few days that ishttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif


Whats just the copilot rated for?


Also I'm wondering if somehow I got a hot version? I ordered the 125hp attitude or thought I did. I was on level 5 with low boost fueling set at 5 and she billowed a fair amount and sliped the trany up to 2% as soon as I tromped on it then I let off imediatly. Dont know if she woulda backed down or zinged because i didnt want to find out.

copilot increases line pressure. It will not help your converter much if it's stock. You are still only biting one quarter to one third lining on the converter clutch piston.


mike

Mike L., is that because of cover deflection?

So I am still on the envelope of blowing by the converter with anything much over a 90hp juice?

Mike L., is that because of cover deflection?


Yes.

So is adding just the copilot pretty much usless? I mean if your going to slip the converter whats the point???http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

You might only have 1/3 the clutch surface area, but with increased pressure on that 1/3, it will surely hold better than stock. Of course, saving up and doing the entire Allison and Torque Converter is the best solution if you can afford it.

Adding the Co-Pilot will not add any more line pressure to the converter....once the converter engages, line pressure drops to the 150-160 area. Remember, each tranny will vary, some may be slightly higher and some slightly lower.


ratlover - it sure can't hurt to add it. Most of the clutch damage is happeneing during engagement of the clutch pack...so speeding the apply of the shift will help. Also increasing the pressure to te clutch packs will help. You may be luck and have a half decent converter that will allow you a gain....but, you could have a weaker one and seen nothing at all.

uh... yeah. D'em little fishies parts will only be hold'n soo much before them go'n stright. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Burner----------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

in that case I will probably hold off on doing it 1/2 at a time.....


no sense spending a bit extra $ in not buying em all together if it may or may not help. I'm not worried about the clutch pack since I will probably be replacing those dudes anway, if I'm slipping the converter then who cares if the trany itself is holding? And like I said with the added locking it may work to piss off the weak stock converter to begin with. And if I didnt majicly get some hot version of the juice i would put my trany into the weaker than most categoryhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif

Would it not be reasonable to just burn up the oem clutch packs and converter before swapping for the performance TC and clutches? Are there any negative effects of royally frying the oem TC and clutches before swapping them out? I mean, if it's not going to hurt anything else, I might as well get all I can get out of the oem stuff, since I paid for it with the truck. Seems like a waste to not get all of your money out of something you paid for. All advice/opinions appreciated.


Dan

It is not a good idea to really beat on your Ally before you do the upgrades. You will put a tremendous amount of unecessary heat into the trans and start hurting things that would not normaly be hurt. I have had trucks in my shop for Transgo and converter and wound up doing a lot more parts replacement. Be kind to your Ally, it will cost you less.


mike

Who was it that said "Smoke em if ya got em"http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif


Mike, seriously though....all the bigger kits like ats and suncoast replace all the stuff like seals and such that could get damaged right?


Another reg cab guyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif Seems we are a minorityhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

So I should do the upgrade now while my tranny is still young and healthy, so it can last and grow old?


Dan

Amen ratloverhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif Reg. cab is great, gives ya the "real" truck feel. not a minivan with a bed.


Dan

"Minivan with a bed" http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


I do like the looks of a reg cab more but I guess function come into the equation. Since I'm a single guy and i was more concerened that I could stick a bigger plow on the front of a reg cab, guys with families would have a hard time convincing the old lady to let em get a duramax if they couldnt haul the rugrats to soccer practice. Could be worse.....they could have one of those mutant minivans with a truck nose that they call SUV's but hey its got a hemihttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif Just razzing you guyshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif


I would say if your going to go full high zoot rebuild then cooking things aint as big of a concern. I wouldnt see how many times you can zing it in a row or anything but hurting it aint as big of a concern IMO. If you are going to go the transgo/tts converter route then I would do her when she is still nice and healthy since you reuse all the parts you can in that build and it uses oem clutches. But I dont know jack and I'm sure someone will tell me why I am totaly wrong.Edited by: ratlover

I think only way you can get a complete rebuild is to buy one of the ready to install transmissions from one of the "big 2". You don't replace as much as you would think with the full ATS kit, no seals or bushings that I'm aware of and only one bearing, and you stay out of the c4's and c5's unless you specifically ask for those components. I believe Suncoast throws in a few more parts with their level V than the ATS does with their top kit, but its more expensive also. I won't flog mine until failure for these reasons, since I don't want to hurt other components as Mike L. pointed out. I know with the CoPilot I'm not helping the convertor, but I did this now to help my clutches for the trip to FL in a few weeks, since I have no self control and have flogged them with the quad.


By the way, I went back to Dextron III, since fill/refill with transynd is too much $$, and now when I accel hard I get the faint smell of tranny fluidhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif... temps aren't high...no leaking..anyone care to render a guess??


Mike

You either overfilled it, spilled some, or you got a leak.


mike

Adding the Co-Pilot will not add any more line pressure to the converter....once the converter engages, line pressure drops to the 150-160 area. Remember, each tranny will vary, some may be slightly higher and some slightly lower.





Reading the literature on the ATS website leads me to believe that they have resolved the above issue with the Co-Pilot.

Edited by: BIG DIPPER

Just to let ya'll know, I haven't flogged my tranny yet, it's only got 3700 miles on it. I never really beat on it unless some unsuspecting 'stang is thinking he's got a hot rod. Mike, I'll follow your advice and be a good boy until I can afford the upgradehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


Dan

Adding the Co-Pilot will not add any more line pressure to the converter....once the converter engages, line pressure drops to the 150-160 area. Remember, each tranny will vary, some may be slightly higher and some slightly lower.





Reading the literature on the ATS website leads me to believe that they have resolved the above issue with the Co-Pilot.





I don't think so. BIG DIPPER knows more about this stuff than i do. He knows more about the Allison than most transmission guys. I listen to him, maybe you should too.


mike

Amen ratloverhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif Reg. cab is great, gives ya the "real" truck feel. not a minivan with a bed.


Dan





Minivan? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif Good one!


My CC LB 4x4 is faster than your "real" truck.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif I would have bought the "real" truck but since I've got a small d*ck I had to compensate with something! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


Any way, enough bad humor.....back to the subject.....My trans doesn't drop line pressure when the converter locks. Unfortunately I don't know if this is a function of the Co-Pilot or something else in the ATS Triple Lock kit.

Trippin


It's a valve in the pump assembly. Like Big Dipper has said before.

Trippin


People with real trucks have their friends follow them in another car caus there aint no room. People with real trucks put their grocerys in the bed, caus ther aint no room. People with real trucks put their grandmothers strapped in a rocking chair in the bed. Why? Cause there aint no room. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif Now, the person with the real truck is getting a devorce, why? Cause the wife is pissed ( mainly about her mom) cause the truck has no room.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


mike

Actually Mike,


My friends drive their own trucks and don't need a ride, and if they do, we pile em in the reg cab like rednecks do... and the women love being able to sit next to me... my grandma is very healthy at 76yrs old and loves jumping in the truck for a ride... and like I stated previously, the women like my reg cab to get a little closer to me, which usually keeps them aroundhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif


but hey, you wouldn't understand, I guess it's a reg cab thinghttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Dan

By the way...


To Mike L, Trippin and every other ext. or CC cab owner, I'm just messin with you guys... If I were not single and needed extra room, I would have gotten an ext. or CC cab. I see quite a few of them in my area and they look sharp (but they usually have groceries stacked so high in the back cab that they can't see out the rear viewhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif) just kiddin... anyway, I don't want to start any wars on here... atleast we're all driving Dmax's...


DanEdited by: StraitDiesel

Dan,


Knew you were messin......just messin back........it's all fun! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Of course we was messin.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif I'm thinking of looking for a used Dmax single cab 2wd for playing around with.


mike

Mike,


You could really get that thing to fly... mine is a reg cab 4wd and it boogies just on reg juice/attitudehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif... I couldn't imagine hot juice and a tranny kit in a reg cab


Dan

[QUOTE=Trippin I would have bought the "real" truck but since I've got a small d*ck I had to compensate with something![/QUOTE]


Had some chicks at a light ask em if I was making up making up for something and beings i am hung like a horsefly I had to tell em there was only one way to find out. If you had to go with a CC then that must really be saying something http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif


The real trucks being slower? Man that stingshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ouch.gif I really need to get a trany and bigger box in my truck so I can keep up with all the grocery getters and granma haulers


Just messing with ya guyshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Hung like a horsefly? http://www.atsdiesel.com/Smilies/killingme.gif (javascript smilie(':killingme'))


ROFLMAO