I would appreciate some feedback from y'all on a conversation I had today with a Banks "sales specialist". I have a an 03 Dmax/Alli SB CC. I just replaced my muffler with the flo-53553 and swiss-cheesed the airbox. With that out of the way, my next step is more power via a programmer and an EGT gauge to keep an eye on temps. (BTW the mufflerectomy and airbox mods made a noticeable difference in response....and very little difference on noise.)


My truck is a daily driver and I pull 2 trailers, of 3K and 6K pounds respectively, for weekend recreation. I don't race it at the track, but would probably run it as "hot" as I can with the stock trans....probably in the +90HP range or so. I've been thinking that having the ability to switch "on-the-fly" between tow and performance settings would be the right choice for me, which helped me narrow down my choice to the edge/attitude and 6-gun.


I was leaning hard towards the Edge with Attitude, but the Banks 6-gun caught my attention. So I called Banks today and told the rep about my truck and how I use it. He suggested I go with the stinger package and NOT with the 6-gun. He said that the 6-gun is only a good choice if you're into drag-racing or truck-pulling, etc. He said the Ottomind controller in the stinger package has been upgraded to include all of the same safety/monitoring/defueling/TCC features offered in the 6-gun/speed loader package. And that the stinger package would basically put out 97HP and about 200 lbs-ft, all day long, even pulling the heaviest of trailers and without any tranny mods. In comparing it with the 6-gun he said the stinger package would provide power somewhere between the 3 and 4 settings. I told him that all the new magazine ads for the 6-gun seem to imply it being a good choice for me, but he didn't agree. Hmmmm......


The other "surprise" for me is that without the speed loader, he claims you don't have any of the built-in safety/monitoring features with the 6-gun. I was a little surprised by this but I guess it's not too different from needing to have the Attitude to keep an eye on things when running the Edge.


My only concern with the Edge are the reports of no-start and interference with wipers and other computer-controlled functions. So far the only problem I have read about with the 6-gun is the switch problems.


I'm not going to go with the stinger package - $2000! Of course that includes exhaust, wastegate actuator, etc. plus the Ottomind. And no Banks doesn't sell the Ottomind separately.


I would appreciate your opinions and suggestions!


Fred G

Edge+Attitude includes guages, record feature, limits, switchable on the fly power levels and can be unplugged for the occasional trip to the dealer. Customer service is excellent. No manufacturer's mass produced product is 100% flawless. How they support it after the sale seperates the gooduns from the baduns. Edge=gooduns.

There have been so many Edge controllers used by members of this forum that it simply is not fair to compare the number of problems reported here. I would venture to guess that the ratio is at least 10 to 1, but probably more. I have had two Edge boxes and not a single problem. I think the Banks product is probably pretty good for what you want to do so there really aren't any wrong answers. The Banks is more difficult to install/remove though depending on configuration. --SS

once again ditto trippin

Thanks guys....looks like I"m "edging" towards Edge/Attitude. Ease of removal is important for warranty work and everyone here has had great comments about Edge customer service. I'll let you know how it turns out.....

I've got the stinger package (Ottomind, etc.)


And....guess what....I like it! It was installed back in June of last year, and I've put on likely around 25k miles on it now. It has all the depowering features to protect the trans too.


Dyno'd, it did +90hp and +145tq, which was a bit _better_ than what Banks advertised at the time. Dunno if/what they've actually upgraded since then, but their advertised gains have been bumped.


As someone who doesn't drag race his truck, I don't see much gain switching to the Edge/Attitude. And I did consider it. Why? At towing 20k#+ combined through the mountains, I've had the Banks stuff depower on heavy grades. This tells me that the engine is producing all the power that the Allison can handle. Any more power will be only further exceed what the trans will handle. The Edge/Attitude will, therefore, give me NO benefit over what I have now - unless I go into the transmission and spend cubic $ there. It may produce more power, but in the same conditions, it'll have to depower to the same level too - or it'll be hurting my transmission.


I did consider upgrading to the 6-gun, but have decided against it for the same reason.


But...given your situation (purchasing vs. upgrading), the Edge/Attitude is probably just as good a choice.


--Rob

I talked to Edge the other day about when they were going to have the LLY version out. While I had them on the phone, I asked specifically about the reported hard starting problems.


I was told they are looking into possible problems in that area, but the majority of it seemed to be problems with folks installing the unit and the large plugs with all the delicate pins inside.... Never the less they are looking to see if there might be a problem on their end. Those who've posted here about it have all said Edge was really good about taking care of any problems they'd had.


IIRC, the wiper problem was confined to the '01 trucks? Don't think I've seen anyone with a newer truck post about that.


Banks makes some good stuff, but Edge is right up the road from me and everyone who I've seen post about them has nothing but good to say about customer service from them. Banks on the other hand has had some folks post with problems they couldn't seem to get taken care of until it was spotted here by Peter T.(?) from Banks.


So I'm on Edge's list for the new unit when it becomes available...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Fred G, With regards to you comment


I guess it's not too different from needing to have the Attitude to keep an eye on things when running the Edge.

Since when is the Juice dependant on the Attitude to monitor trans slippage?Edited by: RaceHemi

I have been reading and researching the EDGE and BANKS products for a long time now. I have given very little of my time to the other devices available.


Here are my conclusions.


Banks provides all of the power a stock tranny can handle on a long term basis. To utilize the extra power of the EDGE you would eventually need to upgrade your tranny.


Banks produces very little smoke if any . To utilize the extra power of the EDGE you would gain some smoke.


Banks does not offer a modern digital gauge system such as the EDGE. However if the speed loader probe is connected to the 6-gun you would not really need any guages.


The 6-gun torque curve looks just like an ottomind torque curve. Only a little higher on the charts. I would guess that they are very very similar in power and funtions.


Banks 6-gun or Ottomind will not win you many races! A transgo shift kit and a EDGE w/attitude is the shortest routte to competing at the drag strip.


Both products obviously have had some quality issues. According to BANKS you will never experince any electrical related problems due to there FMEA? statement. Basically they guarantee no impact on the vehicles electronics. Unlike EDGE. This is not to say that BANKS hardware will be without fault. Switches/boxes/instructions ect.ect.


As far as customer service is concerned, it sounds like Aarron at EDGE is a good guy who likes to resolve all issues quickly. He will send you a new box asap.


Banks in limited situations has needed a little prodding.


Just my observations. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gifEdited by: Bronco

When my truck comes in I will be purchasing the Edge Attitude also ( or as soon as the LLY version is out ). I know that anytime you put out more power, you decrease engine and other parts life, but with everday normal driving and a little heavy footedness every now and then, what would you guys recommend setting the power level at to avoid tearing something up too fast or limping it all the time, but still be able to have some fun with it ? Also, do these Alli transmissions go into limp mode easy or do you really have to run the snot out of them ?

Racehemi -


Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the Edge is completely lacking in safeguards w/o the Attitude, however, I don't believe you can select a custom EGT temp limit or customize the defueling w/o the Edge. Running a stock trans, it would seem that defueling is worth having especially at the highest power levels....


To all -


Thanks again for your feedback, I appreciate it!


Fred G

Truth is, the Juice/Attitude is the ONLY unit on the market allowing easy access to multiple tuning functions like EGT limits, low boost fueling, transmission defuels etc...

Funny how this thread has spent so much time on EDGE when the original question was about 6-gun vs. Stinger. Whats up is it, because they are not a paying advertizer here? I only added the EDGE into my above conversation because it was previously mentioned.


TRuth is the EDGE allows alot of user adjustments, very true. Double EDGED sword if you ask me. What happens if you set the EGT limit to high? What happens if you tell the EDGE not to defuel? What happens with the smoke if you set it on level 5 low boost fuel?


As far as the EDGE monitor is concerned. Alot of fancy info. but ask your self how much of it is really needed? How much of it is accurate? (factory boost cap) ( unlocked slip calcualtion)


The EDGE is a GREAT product. No doubt about it. But to portray an image of it being the only product is just pure wrong.


Let me ask you this? What happens out on the sreet when you have 3 passengers, 500LBS of gear in the bed,300LB tounge weight and a 6000 LB trailer? I will answer for you. The enormus low end torque of the BANKS products and safety feature will really come into play. PERIOD.


If you do not want to Constantly adjust,monitor and drag race then you would never need an EDGE product.


I have suggested this idea before and I will suggest it again. Somehow you need to dice/slice up the power and perforemance categorie a little more. The EDGE is obviously out of the "standard power level." It is just so bad ass I think it should have its own Forum!


Maybe the BANKS products should have there own forum? " Almost a racer" http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Bronco,


Which unit do you have first hand experience with?





BTW, 5% tongue weight will result in a wild ride...Edited by: Kennedy

OKAY Kennedy you got me. You are the best and the smartest, we should all buy your products regardless of price or funtion. Keep up the good work.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Bronco,


You are not helping the case you are trying to plead with the comments you have made in this thread. You started off by posting some seemingly valid points. You then discredit yourself with your next two posts. Look at the first post again. He mentioned the edge himself.


I have driven trucks with both the edge/attitude and the 6gun/SpeedLoader. No doubt the edge felt better to me at the top levels. Fred, I feel you would be happy with either unit. Nothing says you have to run either in the higher settings. Both will back off the power with slippage or excessive EGTs. With the Edge you have the ability to see the status and tune the settings. The defaults work fine. The edge seems to defuel more when shifting than the banks at the higher settings. That seems understandable as I believe it is putting out more power. Run either at the lower half of the levels and they are both smooth. I’m not fond of cutting into the harness with the Banks. Fred, with your situation (and 90% of the other towers out ther) the edge would be my first choice for these reasons. The banks would be a very close second. Anything else would be a distant 3<SUP>rd</SUP> and below.

I chose Edge for towing because it seemed like the best product available at the time. I never run above level 3 or tow heavy above level 2. I set to defuel at all locked shifts and for medium low boost fueling which doesn't seem to smoke any more than stock.


You don't have to be a racer to like the Edge product. And anyone who does more damage to thier truck than a Banks product would do is choosing to.


I think that for the benefit of the forum there should be more good info posted about the Banks products. The problem is that whenever someone asks a Banks vs. Edge question the Banks people get drowned out because there are just so many here with Edge experience. I don't think there are many folks here that intend malice, just a bunch folks that like thier Edge box. We just need to abstain from hijacking the Banks threads in the future so that they can yield some quality information for the interested parties. --SS

Gentlemen -


Thanks to all of you for your input. This post has certainly gotten interesting and I have learned more than expected. Maybe I didn't explain myself the best in my initial post, but one concern I have with Banks was that the sales rep was pushing me in a different direction (Stinger at $2K) than I wanted to go (6-gun/SL at $800). If I'm going to invest $2K I might as well go with the Edge/Attitude and beef my trans and run at 125+HP! Hopefully you can see my logic here.


I do agree that Edge has an advantage on this forum, but let's face it, they've been providing chips for the DMAX for quite a bit longer than Banks has been marketing the 6-gun. I'm sure the 6-gun will establish it's own reputation over time, and we'll see if their unique (or maybe just different?) features help them build a solid sales base.


I must admit I do like the look and concept of the Attitude controller. No, I won't use all the features, but having EGT's along with the control features should work well for me.


The best delivered web price I found for Edge/Attitude was $675 and I'll be placing my order in the next day or two. Warp speed Mr. Sulu!


THANKS!!!!!!!!!!


Fred G

Bronco,


You are not helping the case you are trying to plead with the comments you have made in this thread. You started off by posting some seemingly valid points. You then discredit yourself with your next two posts. Look at the first post again. He mentioned the edge himself.


I have driven trucks with both the edge/attitude and the 6gun/SpeedLoader. No doubt the edge felt better to me at the top levels. Fred, I feel you would be happy with either unit. Nothing says you have to run either in the higher settings. Both will back off the power with slippage or excessive EGTs. With the Edge you have the ability to see the status and tune the settings. The defaults work fine. The edge seems to defuel more when shifting than the banks at the higher settings. That seems understandable as I believe it is putting out more power. Run either at the lower half of the levels and they are both smooth. I’m not fond of cutting into the harness with the Banks. Fred, with your situation (and 90% of the other towers out ther) the edge would be my first choice for these reasons. The banks would be a very close second. Anything else would be a distant 3<SUP>rd</SUP> and below.





Professor,


You are right, I started whining. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


I really enjoyed your post. You gave real life descriptions and comparisons rather than saying THE EDGE IS BETTER! OR I WILL REFRAIN FROM COMMENT. Those type of statments do nothing for giving people a chance to make up there own mind. Thanks.

Bronco, seems to be every thread that has something to do with a power enhancement ends up about Edge. Dont know why, I guess the people that have them like to talk about them?? I'm not tryin to flame anyone for talking about personnal experience, just seems like every thread ends up bein about the juice.

The juice is the standard the others are trying to compete with in regards to performance, the ease of on and off, and the protection of the allison. Until another frontrunner appears in the marketplace for the average duramax owner, all programs and boxes will be compared to edge products. This does not make the place or others are "edge only" site........it just confirms for the most part that people here are informed and intelligent and understand marketing in regards to successful products and not products that offer all, deliver little and hide behind the shield of a 40 something yearold company or the unanswered or unaddressed hang a carrot actions of other so called tuners....... Edited by: sdaver

Why doesnt anyone from edge ever chime in like Banks does? I will agree that they make a great product, but it isn't the "only" product that is good.

Personally, after seeing how Banks and Quad have been bashed (I've bashed Banks myself) - I personally think it's too easy to either take something said out of context or have one troublesome customer throw lotsa poop. I personally don't care for the Six-Gun, mostly because of what I consider false advertising, and I feel some of the things directly from Banks' mouths were just arrogant. Quad would definately fit in this category, in my opinion, although I was never rubbed the wrong way by him (but MANY were). It's hard for a manufacturer to be human on a forum, because everybody will react to words differently and it affects the company ten-fold...


I think on one hand it's nice that manufacturers support the forums, but it can be so sensitive, if I were a manufacturer, such as Edge (or even Banks), I would stay away and serve the customers the best they can with the best product and serving the customers who come directly looking for info... I've yet to see a manufacturer who hasn't been "abused" or attacked on these forums...


Just my $0.02...

The juice is the standard the others are trying to compete with in regards to performance, the ease of on and off, and the protection of the allison. Until another frontrunner appears in the marketplace for the average duramax owner, all programs and boxes will be compared to edge products. This does not make the place or others are "edge only" site........it just confirms for the most part that people here are informed and intelligent and understand marketing in regards to successful products and not products that offer all, deliver little and hide behind the shield of a 40 something yearold company or the unanswered or unaddressed hang a carrot actions of other so called tuners.......

When my truck comes in I will be purchasing the Edge Attitude also ( or as soon as the LLY version is out ). I know that anytime you put out more power, you decrease engine and other parts life, but with everday normal driving and a little heavy footedness every now and then, what would you guys recommend setting the power level at to avoid tearing something up too fast or limping it all the time, but still be able to have some fun with it ? Also, do these Alli transmissions go into limp mode easy or do you really have to run the snot out of them ? i've had my edge/*** for about 2 months and never to this day have I limped my alli. and I have ran truck threw the test with no problems. I even had 6 full grow adults in my truck on power level 5 with no problems and that alot of extra wieght. just my 2 cents.


-Chad-

I have had my banks 6 gun on my truck for about a month now. I have had no issues with the 6 gun, and just haven't had time to install the speed loader I got with it yet. Once the time comes, I will be purchasing a stinger setup.


My banks wasn't that hard to install, and is REAL easy to pull out if you have an "oh sh*t" and need to remove it prior to visiting the dealer.


I don't have any experience with the edge products so I will just be polite and smile. I'm not in it to drag race or anything crazy. I'll keep my banks and give them business in the future.