With all of the brand bashing going on it is easy to get confused. I hear this and that about different diesels on the market. Who realy has the braggin rights. I hear of people getting over 150k on a Ford diesel and I hear of people getting over 150k on a GM. Big deal, Neither Ford or GM can even come close to the DCTD on life. For every Ford and GM that gets 200k on the odometer there are 100 DCTD that see the same thing. If you run a DCTD long enough to wear it out, then be glad because you would have been through several Ford and GM's. Besides that if you take all of the 5.9 Cummins that have been built and add up the total hours run, Hell Cummins could quit today and it would take Ford and GM 10 years to catch up. I ask the Powerstroke guys why don't Ford put that engine in trucks bigger than a F550? Cummins sells many 5.9's for the F700. When Ford was into tractor trucks they didn't build the engine. For that matter International doesn't put their engine their own trucks. There are only 2 real engine makers, Cummins and CAT. Like I have said before, Cummins didn't build the engine for Dodge. Dodge built at truck for Cummins. You can look under the hood of a big rig and find a Cummins or a CAT and then find that same engine pulling a generator on an offshore oil drilling rig. I have been offshore for 13 years and have never seen an international diesel. We have plenty of Detroit diesel's, but you better bring parts and oil. When Cummins and CAT take the same technology from their 2000hp engines and put it into the smaller ones, then you have a real diesel. I don't hear of anybody driving a DCTD saying that they have worn out the then engine and need a new one. They say they need a new truck for their engine.

I think that almost everyone will agree with you on the CTD, it's everything around it that people will agree/disagree with. It would be awesome if one of the big three would put a CAT in.


On edit: I think almost everyone would agree with you on the CTD being a great diesel motor.Edited by: Mr. Mister

Besides that if you take all of the 5.9 Cummins that have been built and add up the total hours run, Hell Cummins could quit today and it would take Ford and GM 10 years to catch up.





Is that right,i never knew that.Let's correct your statement.


Who built/builds more diesels?


1 Cummins


2 International


3 Isuzu


Who built/builds more diesel pickups?


1 Dodge


2 Ford


3 Gm


Since you seem to have the vast superior knowledge,answer those simple questions for us.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

I'll take a SWAG at it:#1 Isuzu (Not DMAX, but Isuzu diesels in general) #2 Ford

I think we have to see how the New Super high pressure Bosch fuel injection systems hold up. So far as I can tell this is where GM/Izuzu has had a few issues, not wide spread by any means. Enough to create a big aftermarket for secondary filtration.


Cummins has gone this route also so as these New engines approach real high mileage, we will have a better idea overall. Who knows we might long for the older simpler Diesels, Slow as Molasases, but built like Tanks.

I have to differ on that. Cummins is the largest diesel engine manufacturer, not Isuzu. I never said that Dodge built or sold more. I spoke of Cummins. Check your stats. Isuzu makes moped motors. Cat and Cummins make real diesel's. 2000+ hp. I've been in the offshore oil industry for 13 years and have never seen an Isuzu engine except in a shrimp boat and a Isuzu PUP. We run 24 hrs a day, 365 a year. In a multi billion dollar industry they can afford to use any diesel power they want. 90% you will fine CAT and Cummins. The other 10% is EMD. Mr. BROKER, with that many miles (1,745,955) under your belt in only 3 years you must have been breaking the speed limit. My calculation estimates @60mph, that would take 29,099 hrs. That is a lot of miles and hours in 3 years. I know, every body is a diesel expert. Step outside of the auto world where only a small % of diesel engines are used and you might see the light. Next time you pull into a truck stop ask a truck driver to look under his hood. I don't think that you will find Isuzu or International.

Depends on how long you keep them and what you do with them.

There's a truck for every need and desire. I'm finding the Dodge with the Cummins to be on the simpler side of the big three. I was under my truck today and was impressed with the sheer simplicity of it... and not just the engine. Things under there look pretty decent.

Ford has a debacle on it's hands and may be alienating a lot of customers.

GM took off like a bat out of hell with the DMax/Ally

GM overtook Dodge in diesel pickup sales until recently I read Dodge took over again.

They are all fighting with the power wars and emissions. It's all in who can do it with durability reliability and economy all in one package. They are all struggling but my move is in response to who i think is closest.

GM had a chance to be a hands down winner but after three years they can't seem to lock in an all out win. They made some design booboos as far as drivability and durability are concerned. I think it's catching up to them.

Ford... great line of trucks. Why didn't GM copy the SuperDuty? What a mistake. GM should have had two entirely different trucks like Ford does IMHO. When they originally said they were coming out with an HD truck and an all new diesel with the Allison... it would have made so much sense to compete head to head with the SuperDuty. They get a boatload of sales from commercial that won't by the other brands cause they simply do not offer anything comparible to the 450 550. Those trucks are perfectly sized above the light duty competition. I'm not saying they are better built or designed but the size, suspensions and drivetrains put them up front in the construction fleet business.

My how things have progressed... or should I say... not progressed. Look at Ddge. Can you believe they didn't build a true Crew Cab. It's insane what these companies are thinking.

Just think if the 6.0 PSD was a huge success. Heck... i might have been driving one.

They have sure made it difficult for us to choose. Edited by: hoot

I have to differ on that. Cummins is the largest diesel engine manufacturer, not Isuzu. I never said that Dodge built or sold more. I spoke of Cummins. Check your stats. Isuzu makes moped motors. Cat and Cummins make real diesel's. 2000+ hp. I've been in the offshore oil industry for 13 years and have never seen an Isuzu engine except in a shrimp boat and a Isuzu PUP. We run 24 hrs a day, 365 a year. In a multi billion dollar industry they can afford to use any diesel power they want. 90% you will fine CAT and Cummins. The other 10% is EMD. Mr. BROKER, with that many miles (1,745,955) under your belt in only 3 years you must have been breaking the speed limit. My calculation estimates @60mph, that would take 29,099 hrs. That is a lot of miles and hours in 3 years. I know, every body is a diesel expert. Step outside of the auto world where only a small % of diesel engines are used and you might see the light. Next time you pull into a truck stop ask a truck driver to look under his hood. I don't think that you will find Isuzu or International.


I have to disagree. Waukesha would be the primary driver used in the oil industry. The new lean burn Cats were introduced to meet federal emission requirements and have been experiencing growing pains ever since. The advisory system on these units will not allow them to run if parameters drift a little from the norm. As far as Cummins they are few and far in between. The GM's however are used in the higher RPM applications where dependability is a must. Fire water systems, Ballast control. They are made to take abuse and are usually in systems where you would not wan't SD devices.

a bear,

When you refer to GM's you mean gassers?

Hoot,


They are mostly GM 671 Diesels. Their application is for emergency use. Last protection before abandonment. They require weekly testing by cranking from one of several remote stations under full RPM. Always before oil pressure has had a chance to build. They only know full RPM and have no automated shut downs as they are considered the last means of escape. Basicly they are designed to self destruct before they quit.


Congrats on the new ride. My neighbor has the new HO Cummins and loves it. It is really nice. Hopefully the new HPCR injection will not have the growing pains others have had. Looks like so far so good though. Have you considered secondary filtration or does the primary look sufficient. Do they still have the lift pump. Just curious.

I will sum it all up for you guys. It all comes down to personal preference. All three engines w/ the exception of the 6.0 powerstroke, which has gotten much better since its debut are really good. The Dmax ally combo is unsurpassed by anybody, and the cummins has the tradition of outlasting the pickup. It doesnt matter which one you choose they are all exceptional. And will pull whatever you put behind them. If you want to talk aftermarket and speed you better have a Dmax.

When I was ready to replace my work truck, my first visit was to my Ford dealer. You've got to give Ford it's due. They make a very well thought out "truck".


But rumors of 6.0 problems, lack of serious discounts on the Powerstroke trucks pushed me away. While I like the V10 Ford Gas engine, it is too thirsty for my tastes.


Dodge was only offering a Gas Hemi and 215HP? Diesel at the time (CA), so I didn't even test one. Now that Dodge has finally addressed emissions for CA, you apparently can get the HO motor, but still no Club Cab.


So for me, it wasn't so much of a choice as a "only game in town" decision to go with the GMC.


Truth be told, I probably will not have this truck over 200,000mi. The interior and exterior of a truck wear out by then. So claims of 1,000,000 mi motors are like saying Brand X shoes have soles that last 100 years. It is interesting, but not relevant.


But most importantly, the technology is changing rapidly right now. In 5-7 years when I am ready for another new truck, the choices will probably be totally different than what they are today.

I will sum it all up for you guys. It all comes down to personal preference. All three engines w/ the exception of the 6.0 powerstroke, which has gotten much better since its debut are really good. The Dmax ally combo is unsurpassed by anybody, and the cummins has the tradition of outlasting the pickup. It doesnt matter which one you choose they are all exceptional. And will pull whatever you put behind them. If you want to talk aftermarket and speed you better have a Dmax.


Couldn't agree more. They will ALL pull to their rating and OUTLAST the truck. It's a shame Dodge doesn't build a Truck that can last longer when they have such a awesome engine. They seem to loosen up and rattle rather quickly. A PU is only as good as the weakest link in the package. If I were in the towing buisness then I would take a look at the Cummins but I can't see giving up the ride and smoothness 90% of the time to only be towing 10% of the time. Application is everything. You need to look at how your truck is used the majority of the time and what your willing to give up. Depending on the application I would consider any of the three. They are all good trucks overall.Edited by: a bear

I don't agree.... now I've had both even if only for a week. The ride in my Dodge is not a showstopper at all. My Dmax was better but no way is the Dodge a bad ride.

My brother has a 4 year old Dodge. It's sitting pretty good still. I'm not on a "Dodge is better trip" here because I own one now. I'm just calling some things as I see them. I won't know if I get a bunch of looseness or rattles for a while but my brother loves his and has no complaints.

It's got AAM axles... should be durable right?
It's got a Cummins... should be durable right?
I ain't got no Allison..... who knows what the future holds on that one. We'll see if the 48RE is tough enough.

a bear... you own a newer one lately?

Like I have said in the past, this ain't your grandpa's Dodge.

The trucks designs each have their own "feel" to them. Some were created for comfort above all, some were created to tow a mountian down the road, and some were created by looks. Each brand has good and bad points, it will always be that way.


Take a good look at what you will be using the truck for. Family? Towing? Weekend Warrior? Around town? I think you will figure it out by solving the issue of what are you going to be doing with the truck.

In all fairness I suppose I should withdraw my previous statement about the Dodge body. They really have come a long way. The CTD is a proven winner but lets not cut the others short before they have had a chance to adapt. The new emission requirements and higher injection pressures are will put them all to the test.

Personally I believe Dodge does build a better body than GM. In 1998 I bought a Chevy C1500 extended cab and a buddy of mine bought a Dodge QC 1500 4x4. His truck held up much better than mine. At 50k miles my truck was a rattle trap, loose trim pieces, creaks and moans from chassis flex and air leaks around the rear vent windows. Yet my buddy's Dodge has held up very well. Still tight with 70k miles on it now.


But I did get better fuel economy than him....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


MikeyB

I have a question. How many people out there actually drive a truck for over 200,000 miles. Most of the people today drive it until their lease is up or until they want to go trade it in on a newer more advanced truck. Besided all of that the people that i see driving a diesel hardly ever pull a trailer with it anyways. Which is the stupidest thing ever.

Todd, why is not pulling a trailer stupid? Diesel in a lot of places is cheaper then gas. Where I am at right now diesel is averaging 10-15 cents cheaper then 87 octane. Why drive a gutless gasser when you can have power, better fuel economy and a longer lasting engine?

Todd


I never knew anything about diesel when I bought mine. I had a few friends who did and were happy. It is a calling. Once you own one you will never go back. I just got one in Feb 2004 and I wish I had made the change sooner. I have owned gas trucks before. Why do people drive Hummers, corvette. Just because.


My name is Canadian_Frank and I am turning into a dieselaulic!

Thanks for sharing Frank http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Congrads Frank, I'm in the same boat. I have owned a 85 6.2l Chevy Diesel and I don't think I will ever go back to Gashttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif. Even with that old truck, I was extremely happy.

What is gas ? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

I bought my chevy 2003 3500 more for the interior comforts and DVD player than for the motor. But now that I have a Dmax, I am extremely happy with it. The Dodge vibrated way too much, and the 4 door crew cab was way too small. My friend owns several dodge dealers, and told me that they had been told that Daimer nixed the full size 4 door until 2006, and it was strictly a cost savings decision. However they lost a tremendous amount of market share over it. Now Daimer want to sell off the Chysler, Dodge unit.. Go figure.

I bought my chevy 2003 3500 more for the interior comforts and DVD player than for the motor. But now that I have a Dmax, I am extremely happy with it. The Dodge vibrated way too much, and the 4 door crew cab was way too small. My friend owns several dodge dealers, and told me that they had been told that Daimer nixed the full size 4 door until 2006, and it was strictly a cost savings decision. However they lost a tremendous amount of market share over it. Now Daimer want to sell off the Chysler, Dodge unit.. Go figure.

You made good points...

The Cummins is difficult to tame. Full size door? That's not really an issue. The doors in the back are plenty big. I would not consider the rear seating and door, in the extended cab classification. It is larger than that. The doors are plenty big and it's no problem getting in. The doors open nice and wide.

The problem is it could use a few more inches of legroom and the back needs a little slope. That points it toward extended cab classification. I'm glad I don't have to sit back there all the time. To do like GM, Dodge will have to totally redo the cab. Something they should have done while redoing it this time around. Stupid marketing decision. GM is no angel in this respect either.

Oh how I now see the differences. I'm glad I bought this Dodge. Not in a brand bash way.... just cause now I see the differences first hand on a daily basis.

It's so true how you buy what fits your needs and what you like in a particular vehicle. Service and reliability are important.

I went from (GMC)a smooth engine, big 4 door cab, IFS
to
Vibrating Cummins, smaller rear 4 door cab (front is huge) and a smooth riding SFA 4x4. This truck is a beast.

As long as durability over three years is good, I'm gonna love this truck. If it holds up well I may keep this one longer.... but I always say that.Edited by: hoot

I think dodge is killing there sales by not having a full size four door. I would have bought a new dodge instead of the gmc this year and I have two friends in the market for new diesel trucks and they have said the samething. When you ride in the back of a truck for 10 hrs straight leg room is everything.

smooth riding SFA 4x4.


Really.....................you used to beg to differ............remember the SFA VS IFS wars ..............!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gif

smooth riding SFA 4x4.


Really.....................you used to beg to differ............remember the SFA VS IFS wars ..............!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gif

That was your queue Broker.

Well it's been a while since most of those statements I made and alot has transpired with regards to truck frame/suspension designs. I am impressed with this truck that's all I can say.

Well as most of you know, I went from a cummins to a chevy. I drove and played extensively for a year and stock comparision to stock comparision the chevy wins hands down. Modified, time will tell, I am definitely not going crazy on this one as it is a tow vehicle. I will say that the dmax has some of my cummins pullin buddies scared this year. Whats gonna happen when the dmax gets an aftermarket turbo? Its gonna be interesting. I remember back when the big rig pullin series guys said that the v8 mack wouldn't compete against some of the cummins powered machines. Oh has that changed. I think were gonna see somethin similar happen in the pickups. Just my .02.

If nitrous is used to make up for not haveing a larger turbo when you do finally have aftermarket turbos what type of gain will you get that has not been seen with nitrous???? Just wondering

The larger turbo will put all the ant-drugies gripes to rest. I really like cummins, have pulled cummins and really don't know what all the fuss about nitrous or propane has been all about.(with the cummins crowd that is)Edited by: dpower