What is the deal with the Edge system for the LBZ? They had initially said they would be to market in late January, then it was March and now there is no specified release date (that I can find).

Is the CPU programming that much different from the previous years that all of the programming wizards are stumped? I have not been able to see anyone on here who has even been able to block the EGR and add an exhaust to the LBZ without eventually throwing codes.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

The ECU is alot faster and its a newer system. So they are trying to make sure there wont be any bugs in the system. If you have to have something now- the Bully Dog, PPE, and others have programmers out right now. Ive noticed that it takes longer for a box to come out than the programmers. Ive heard mayish before the Edge and Banks boxes come out. I dont want a bugged box, they can take all the time they want!

I am with you on the no bugs issue...that is why Edge is the best system IMO. I guess my beef is just that it looked like they had it worked out for a early '06 release and now it is not on the radar screen.

But even an exhaust upgrade is still out of the question until the code issue is resolved as well.

This is my first diesel project, so it is a little frustrating having to wait so long for upgrades. I know in years past GM has given trucks to aftermarket manufacturers ahead of public release so that they could get their aftermarket products in production ahead of a new model year. but those were gas trucks which generate a lot more sales numbers and do not carry the higher cost of a diesel truck. Plus GM's current financial picture probably doesn't warrant much in the "give away" department these days.

Oh well....I guess I need a little more patience. :o:

You also have to take into account that they are making the box compatiable with 2 different engines. So they have to work out the bugs for 2 sets of programs. The 06s LLY and LBZ.

I inquired with Edge about a month ago and they told me late this summer for the new product for the lbz......

I spoke with a local vendor the other day on it.
We spoke with a rep. from edge products and i guess they are shooting for june~
Then I said:grd:

I didn't realize that the CPU was shared on both of the engines.

Has anyone been able to figure out how to block the egr and add exhaust without throwing codes?

That is what I am waiting on, I can wait for the edge for a few months but i want to ditch the EGR and cat and I can't do it right now...

You also have to take into account that they are making the box compatible with 2 different engines. So they have to work out the bugs for 2 sets of programs. The 06s LLY and LBZ.

Not really, same engine, same ecu's, different power programs according to everything I have read here.

The big issue seems to be whether they can switch programs on the fly.

The down-loaders seem to produce the same or similar power levels for both motors at each level.

There is some differences- If i read the specs correctly- different compression ratios. Also there is some differences in the engine seeing how there is 50 extra HP.

There is some differences- If i read the specs correctly- different compression ratios. Also there is some differences in the engine seeing how there is 50 extra HP.

This thread is a good read http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59888

Some of the users here did a lot of research.

What is the deal with the Edge system for the LBZ? They had initially said they would be to market in late January, then it was March and now there is no specified release date (that I can find).

Is the CPU programming that much different from the previous years that all of the programming wizards are stumped? I have not been able to see anyone on here who has even been able to block the EGR and add an exhaust to the LBZ without eventually throwing codes.

:confused: :confused: :confused:
Edge has always been very bad about missing there projected release dates!

This thread is a good read http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59888

Some of the users here did a lot of research.

Im well aware of the differences, I own a 06 LLY, and have have a LBZ at work. Im not quite sure what you mean by that last comment, but suffice it to say, I was trying to point out information to the thread starter, not be a part of a pissing contest.

Im well aware of the differences, I own a 06 LLY, and have have a LBZ at work. Im not quite sure what you mean by that last comment, but suffice it to say, I was trying to point out information to the thread starter, not be a part of a pissing contest.

Me either,

I have access to both also. There are no visible differences except for a "D" in the vin code and the door badges. Another user at a dealer has managed to put the 06LBZ programing into an 06LLY ECU.

What differences have you observed?

The ECUs are the same. They are the new Bosch computers. So they would accept the LBZ program, the question would be how well it ran due to the different compression ratios, and fuel rail pressures. The LBZ runs around 3,000 psi higher. My guess is that running the LBZ program on the LLY, it would be a type of Duramaximizer, fuel rail pressure increase, possibly gaining power that way.

It would seem that you are comparing the LBZ with LLY's built prior to 6/1/05. It is my understanding that all LLY's and LBZ's built after 6/1/05 have the same compression ratio 16.8-1.

GM through their press releases gave the impression that they were different, however it seems that the 06 LLY was a detuned LBZ for the purposes of giving them time to evaluate the 6-speed Allison and or something to brag about for the new model year.

Apparently the part number for a dressed 06 LLY or LBZ motor is the same as is the part # for the ECU

If you read the GM press release here http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67521 you will see that they mention a significantly revised motor

"The 2006 Silverado HD (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/autolink.php?id=46&script=showthread&forumid=140) and Sierra HD (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/autolink.php?id=46&script=showthread&forumid=140) with the Allison 6-speed automatic transmission will be equipped with a significantly revised 310 horsepower DURAMAX 6600 (LLY) through the third quarter of 2005. It will be replaced in these applications in the fourth quarter of 2005, by the higher output, 360-horsepower DURAMAX (LBZ).

They dont say it's a different motor, in fact further down under the specifications

"2006 DURAMAX 6600 Specifications (LLY, LBZ (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/autolink.php?id=22&script=showthread&forumid=140))

Assembly site: Moraine, Ohio

Applications: Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra 2500HD, 3500 pickups; Hummer H1, Chevy Express and GMC Savana full-size vans; Chevy and GMC medium-duty trucks

Type: 90º V-8 charge-cooled turbodiesel
Displacement (cu in/ cc (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/autolink.php?id=29&script=showthread&forumid=140)): 403 / 6599
Bore x stroke (in x mm): 4.06 x 3.9 / 103 x 99
Block material: cast iron with induction-hardened cylinder liners
Cylinder head material:cast aluminum
Intake manifold:cast aluminum
Exhaust manifolds:cast nodular iron with steel pipe extension
Compression ratio: 16.8:1
Valve configuration:overhead valve, four valves per cylinder
Valve lifters:Mechanical roller
Firing order:1 – 2 – 7 – 8 – 4 – 5 – 6 – 3
Fuel system:direct injection diesel with high-pressure common rail"

They make it clear that they are the same with different outputs. The higher fuel rail pressure is common to both and is more related to emissions than output in this case.

just wanted to add that I have had the 5inch kit from MBRP for about 3 weeks and 1400miles and had a check engine light come on for about 5 mins the first day and hasnt come on again.and yes its no cat,full kit from halfway down on the down pipe to the rear,and it sounds great.

Jared
and yes its a LBZ

The reason its probably taking Edge so long is because there is no EDU/FICM to work with. The injectors are driven DRIECTLY by the ECM.

See, the 2001-2005 Dmax's had EDU's in addition to the ECM's. The EDU was basically like a big heavy duty switching station, or relay for the injectors. The Injectors operate at high voltage (96v on the LB7, 48v on the 04-05 LLY) so the ECM can NOT control them directly because the ECM only works on 12v. The EDU is a big transformer and bunch of relays. Thats why it has fuel running thru it, to cool the heat generated by the step-up transformers. The ECM sends a signal to the EDU telling it to have each injector do their individual thing, and the EDU is what actually controls the injectors. The EDU is the only thing that can actually open and close the injectors, but its slaved to the ECM. So the ECM sends injector data to teh EDU, and the EDU ups voltage from 12 to 48/96 and sends power to the injectors when the ECM tells it to.

The Edge plugs IN-LINE with the ECM and EDU. It takes the stock signals from the ECM, sucks them into th e Edge box, modifies them with whatever pulse width, duration, timing, etc that it wishes, and sends them back out to the EDU. The EDU just does whatever it is told, so its really listening to the Edge box when it thinks its listening to the ECM.

On the 2006's theres no EDU, so Edge probably is having a hard time engineering something that will work this way, because it will have to control the injectors DIRECTLY after the Edge box, because theres no EDU. Its probably not easy to make the Edge directly control the 12 volt, high amperage injectors with no EDU present to do the "dirty work".

thats JMO, a conclusion that ive drawn myself from thinking about how these engines work and how it would be harder to get an Edge to work with these new EDU-less engines.

--Ben

thanks for the info DuratotheMax, that is the most complete explaination that I have gotten from anyone.

Hopefully they (Edge) will get it figured out soon and we can start spending our $$ with them.

I did find out the MBRP has a new cat-back system that I will be picking up this week so I hope to post some results from that install soon. On another note I hit the dyno from Diesel Perfomance Motorsports this weekend and pulled 556 lb/ft of torque and 294.6 hp in stock condition with the big wheels and tires still on the truck!!! :ro)

No problem ;)

Like I said, that may not be *THE* reason, but just from my general knowlege of the trucks, it kinda makes sense that that would be the hold up and whats giving them trouble...

Ben

Not to go off topic from Edge, but I called Hypertech and asked them about the LBZ Programmer and he said to check back. I asked if I could call back in 30-days, he said more like 6-months. He wouldn't elaborate....

I guess the wait is on.

The waiting sucks but I would rather have it right as opposed to rushing to install something and have to fight it every step of the way.

My LBZ will haul my boat anywhere I want to drag it this summer like it sits, but it sure would be nice to have some extra MPG and power when the boat is in the driveway too!

I spoke with tech support at Edge and he said that we'll realistically see the product available towards the end of July, first part of August. He also said it appears there's more potential with the LBZ for higher (safe) horsepower than the LB7's and LLY's.

July/August would be cool, but after missing the first two release dates I am not holding my breath.

The potential for higher HP is a true statement as the LBZ is running higher PSI on the injectors and the rods and crank are also stronger pieces than previous versions.

My personal belief is that GM is understating the HP and lb/tq right now. It is rated at 325HP and 650lb/ft at the flywheel. I put mine on a rear wheel dyno this past weekend running 35" tall tires which cut the gear ratio way down from 3.73 and I still made 294.1HP and 556.1lb/ft!! If you assume a normal 20% drop off from the flywheel through the drivetrain it should only have made around 260hp and 520lb/ft. If you factor in the taller tires it is more like a 25-30% reduction, so go figure. Even with that said...I still want more more more!!

It is rated at 325HP and 650lb/ft at the flywheel.Actually it's rated at 360/650.

I'm ready to purchase my Edge!!!

Actually it's rated at 360/650.

You're right Josh, I was having a brain fart on the HP:D

I am ready for my Edge too, but I could survive a while if I could just block off my EGR successfully with a Fingerstick!

I spoke with tech support at Edge and he said that we'll realistically see the product available towards the end of July, first part of August. He also said it appears there's more potential with the LBZ for higher (safe) horsepower than the LB7's and LLY's.

Take it for what it's worth............... I heard from a contact directly at Edge that the LBZ will......"hopefully by ready by SEMA". (november for those who are not familiar with the show).

If it is as good as thier last boxes it is worth the wait IMHO.:)

Edge needs to feakin hurry up! I'm in the need for some hardcore black somke, and some more power, I'm tired of watching all of my buddies have fun with their lb7s, I wanna play with the edge boyz too:ro)

Take it for what it's worth............... I heard from a contact directly at Edge that the LBZ will......"hopefully by ready by SEMA". (november for those who are not familiar with the show).


thay shoulda had a prototype going for SEMA last year! and shoulda released it when the engins came out but i supose its not realy therre fault not having any info released to them from GM

I'm ready to buy one :mad:

A shop here in town told me that they would be available in a few weeks. Dunno if that means anything.

I think it means their blowin smoke up your ***.

I talked with Edge and they said mid summer but how the hell do they know? When your problem solving, you can't time things, some go fast and some go slow. We manufacture products we develop and I can tell you this, it is what it is. They get it and with Edge, when they get it, it will be done right. That's why Edge has a great reputation. Sit back and enjoy the show.

Hey I heard the gauges on the edge products sucks and arent reliable.... is that true? If so, Id like to get gauges now and not wait till the edge is released. what do yall think?

im waiting for the edge but i have autometers now. edges guages are pretty marginal.

im waiting for the edge but i have autometers now. edges guages are pretty marginal.

I don't think that I would call them "marginal". Are they as accurate as a full sweep analog gauge, probably not. But is there a big enough difference in them to hurt your engine or turbo, no.

Personally I like analog guages, but when the Edge is on the market I am going to use their monitor because it will all be in one spot for reference which will be less distracting. And prehaps even more importantly, it is much less of an "advertisment" to anyone (especially the guys with the blue lights on the roof) that I have my stuff turned up. IMO

egt's on the attitude in 6.0 ford have been known to be of 200 degrees. i wouldnt trust them.

egt's on the attitude in 6.0 ford have been known to be of 200 degrees. i wouldnt trust them.

I think the primary problem there is Ford. That in and of itself could be issue.

very true. but the edge is still the prob.

How is the Bank's compared to the Edge. One of my friends just put a Bank's system on his LLY and that thing hauls *** now. He has the little PDA system in his truck too. Pretty cool set-up.

Banks seems like they have a really good setup compared to anyone else.
Does anybody reccomend them or someone else for performance? I have been really leaning toward Bully Dog, but now that I have been reading up a little bit on the Banks products, I am leaning a little that way.
Anyone woth feedback, please help!!!!!!
I have an 06 LLY w/ Allison 6spd. I do a lot of towing, I have a 48' enclosed Gooseneck.

I have not used any of the Banks stuff myself but I have been told by some friends with the Cummings that if you get the entire Banks set up it is really hard to beat. The problem with that is who wants to spend all the $$ to get everything that goes with it (ie. new intercooler, intake, etc.).

Banks is currently doing a lot with the Duramax, but they have in the past been primarily geared more toward Cummings.

Any known Edge release date yet?

Todd

theyre probably getting held up on the issues I described before.....and theyre probably also stuck on figuring out the HS GMLAN data bus.

Any known Edge release date yet?

Todd

Email I got yesterday says they anticipate a "late summer" release. My guess is September/October timeframe. :(

Bill

Email I got yesterday says they anticipate a "late summer" release. My guess is September/October timeframe. :(

Bill

bet they didn't specify which year either):h

bet they didn't specify which year either):h

:exactly:

Bill

Email I got yesterday says they anticipate a "late summer" release. My guess is September/October timeframe. :(

Bill

:mad:

Straight form banks. I called and asked about the when we could expect tuners for the new LBZ.

Hello, my name is Rich Norman with Banks Power. Thanks for your inquiry. We are currently working on the 2006 products. We are estimating late summer (August-September) for the release. If you would like to talk, you can reach me direct at 800-438-7693 ext 4110

Thanks,

Richard Norman
Power Consultant
Gale Banks Engineering
546 Duggan Ave.
Azusa, CA 91702
Phone: (626) 969-9600 Ext. 4110
Toll Free: (800) 438-7693

I just got my new issue of Diesel Power and what should I find in the midst of the mag on a big color ad for Edge.....Juice w/Attitude is listed as an "available" product! I am going to try and call some dealers this morning to see what the deal is again. I would guess that the PR department is not talking to the R/D department about the progress as this is the first Edge advertisment I have seen that actually lists a product for the LBZ!
:wtf:

So what did you find out???? Is it available?

It is not listed on the Edge web site as available.:(

I seen that right away, and I went to the website and didn't find anything either! They're teasing us!:mad:

does it work for the zf6 manual transmission

If its printed in a mag its out. Just wait till monday morning to confirm.

Yes you can chip a truck with the manual trans.

Todd

I called Edge and spoke to one of their sales agents who said that the Juice is set for a September '06 release and that it should not have been in the magazine advertisment as "available". :mad:

I called Edge and spoke to one of their sales agents who said that the Juice is set for a September '06 release and that it should not have been in the magazine advertisment as "available". :mad:

I think they call that "false advertising" :Nonono: :stick_out

Yeah I agree! Yes the edge works with the zf6! Well at least I'll have the mac's dual disc pulling clutch in before the edge comes out!

Thats bull****! :mad:

Oh well i guess its preadator time

todd

Fell for the same trick... wish i checked here a few hours ago