I'm unaware of any programmers being available for LLY's. On another board a member says he has a Juice with Attitude on his 04 LLY. What's the skinny? Edited by: dmaxer

Okay I answered this, then got to thinking, I'll ask them... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Question.gif


So, I just talked to Edge about it, it's been a month or so since I've touched bases with them about the LLY Juice so I figured your rumor might be as good a reason as any to get the facts.


The tech chuckled when I told him there was someone on a forum claiming to have a Juice for the LLY. Actually what he said was "If he's got a Juice for an LLY, he didn't get it from us...".


They've not yet started running day to day with their test truck, let alone issuing a Beta version for real life testing. The LLY has an entirely new 32 bit Delphi computer for the ECM, so it's not just a case of adapting the LB7 programming.


So it looks like the member on another board was mistaken....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif





Edited by: Zeeb

Did he give any eta on when he expected it to be available? Does ANYBODY make a chip/programmer for the LLY worth buying?





Chuck

I'd really like the skinny on when there coming out with new juice box for the LLY. Whats taking so long, there are warm climates out there for testing. Edge needs to pull the lead out of there _ SS. There are a lot of people WAITING!!!!!!!!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif Bought my LLY in Feb. and still waiting. 3500 miles later and still WAITING!!!!!!!!!Edited by: BlueCrew 04 D/A SB GMC

Do you want it right, or do you want it soon?


Can't have it both ways unfortunately....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


TTS may be the first out, they've got some stuff up and running but not completed nor fully tested.

Look at the LA dyno day results and you will see Diesel Techs (TTS) LLY runs with a mild program. I can tell you this much after driving the his truck; he is quicker with the tow program than my LB7 tow program. It will be worth the wait.


mike

Well, my wallet just breathed a sigh of relief ;)

If it's not available yet, then it means I might actually have to wait awhile longer to get it :)

Does anybody know WHEN the Edge will be availble for the LLY? June-ish? August-ish? December-ish?

I'm unaware of any programmers being available for LLY's. On another board a member says he has a Juice with Attitude on his 04 LLY. What's the skinny?


My guess is that he has an '04 with the LB7 but *thinks* he has the LLY.

Either that, or he's just full of bull....

We do have the LLY programming in hand so to speak. The Economy and Tow level are completed and have been running on test truck for two months. We are waiting for warm weather here in CA so we can do the final tow testing before they are released. Once completed we will upgrade the transmission and put the Race level of performance into the test truck and see where we end up. The transmission changes made for the LLY engine were very minor and GM has already used up most of the reserve in the transmission with the added power output. So it will need the transmission upgrade if your looking to add more than 60 RwHp. The new turbo allows for more low end torque and that's what makes the problems for the transmission. If your just looking for high RPM Hp you could add more power but if you bring up the low end the tranmission just doesn't stand a chance of living.

Edge told me to check back the first part of May to get a better idea of where things might be.


When I initially talked to them in November, they indicated that there was no way to tell until they got their hands on an LLY to work with. After their truck arrived about the end of January, they said it would probably be summer before anything came out.


In March, the comment was something to the effect "It is possible that it could be released in about six weeks if that was all we were working on, but we have lots of other things to do besides the LLY box. So mid summer might be a realistic time frame."


When I talked to them the other day, they did not give any other time frame to me. Granted, there may be something going on or development that they did not care to share with me about the progress on that module. I have no reason to suspect they've been anything but up front with me about the progress on the new module. I also suspect that as more LLY's get out there, the financial impetus of a greater number of prospective buyers will help push it along.


Look at it this way, not only is your wallet safe for awhile longer, but you can get the new trucks broke in a little more. We'll also have a better idea of any possible problems with the design changes that usually show up with a new engine......http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


Last, as Mike has suggested, it might be nice to let some other folks find out about the trans since I've not been able to find any information to indicate the new numbers for the trans were obtained in any other way than using the reserve already built into them.


It's worth noting I think, that Allison has got a whole new line of transmissions coming out next year(?) and the numbers are a chunk higher than the present trans is rated to hold.

The transmission changes made for the LLY engine were very minor and GM has already used up most of the reserve in the transmission with the added power output. So it will need the transmission upgrade if your looking to add more than 60 RwHp. The new turbo allows for more low end torque and that's what makes the problems for the transmission. If your just looking for high RPM Hp you could add more power but if you bring up the low end the tranmission just doesn't stand a chance of living.


cyclone stated in another thread that the tranny would be ok for the new module that was being made IIRC about 80 hp or 60ish at the wheels?
the old allison was rated for 520ft-lbs and the revised allison for 600ft-lbs so how did they use up their reserve if they increased its capacity? unless their higher power rating is just on paper......

The only real internal modification that was made in the new Allison was to add a solonoid to lower main line pressure when at idle and no vehicle speed. All clutches and drums are the same as before. There are some software changes to control the new solonoid. They under rated what the previous version could hold and after a few years of running them they have now updated the rateing. The truth is we've been running them all along with power adders that gave 150 ft/lb increases with no troubles, so let's look at that 520 + 150= 670 ft/lbs. Now they have up'ed the stock torque to 590 and since the old unit worked at 670 - 590= 80 ft/lbs of room left. This is why the transmission will need to be upgraded much sooner on the LLY motors than the old LB7 version.

Is Allison upgrading the Transmission for 05 or 06 then if GM upped the hp for the LLY? Like somebody else said on another page, Allison should live up to their name and be the best tranny that is in a Truck. Thank's Adamhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif

They are.......

looks like im shellin' out 3k sooner than i thought... lol

Edge told me to check back the first part of May to get a better idea of where things might be.


When I initially talked to them in November, they indicated that there was no way to tell until they got their hands on an LLY to work with. After their truck arrived about the end of January, they said it would probably be summer before anything came out.


In March, the comment was something to the effect "It is possible that it could be released in about six weeks if that was all we were working on, but we have lots of other things to do besides the LLY box. So mid summer might be a realistic time frame."


When I talked to them the other day, they did not give any other time frame to me. Granted, there may be something going on or development that they did not care to share with me about the progress on that module. I have no reason to suspect they've been anything but up front with me about the progress on the new module. I also suspect that as more LLY's get out there, the financial impetus of a greater number of prospective buyers will help push it along.


Look at it this way, not only is your wallet safe for awhile longer, but you can get the new trucks broke in a little more. We'll also have a better idea of any possible problems with the design changes that usually show up with a new engine......http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


Last, as Mike has suggested, it might be nice to let some other folks find out about the trans since I've not been able to find any information to indicate the new numbers for the trans were obtained in any other way than using the reserve already built into them.


It's worth noting I think, that Allison has got a whole new line of transmissions coming out next year(?) and the numbers are a chunk higher than the present trans is rated to hold.

Some good points. With this being a new motor, I'm sure there's bound to be at least a few little problems that will pop up in the next few months. It's probably best that I hold off on big mods until some of those are discovered and ironed out :)

I've had the truck a little over 2 weeks, and I have well over 2,000 miles on it... so it should be WELL broken in by the time Edge officially releases their stuff for the LLY!

There testing and their "mobile" ....





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

The only real internal modification that was made in the new Allison was to add a solonoid to lower main line pressure when at idle and no vehicle speed. All clutches and drums are the same as before. There are some software changes to control the new solonoid. They under rated what the previous version could hold and after a few years of running them they have now updated the rateing. The truth is we've been running them all along with power adders that gave 150 ft/lb increases with no troubles, so let's look at that 520 + 150= 670 ft/lbs. Now they have up'ed the stock torque to 590 and since the old unit worked at 670 - 590= 80 ft/lbs of room left. This is why the transmission will need to be upgraded much sooner on the LLY motors than the old LB7 version.


Isn't the power only in 2,3,4 gears??? I thought EDGE said they had 900 lbs TQ behind those gears with no problems (stock tranny)...I wouldn't mind a 90 hp increase in first, 150-(200http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif) in 2nd,3rd,4th....and maybe 50-90 in 5th.


If the Manufacture can manipulate it for different gears, why not the performance people, OR are they?????

The only real internal modification that was made in the new Allison was to add a solonoid to lower main line pressure when at idle and no vehicle speed. All clutches and drums are the same as before. There are some software changes to control the new solonoid. They under rated what the previous version could hold and after a few years of running them they have now updated the rateing. The truth is we've been running them all along with power adders that gave 150 ft/lb increases with no troubles, so let's look at that 520 + 150= 670 ft/lbs. Now they have up'ed the stock torque to 590 and since the old unit worked at 670 - 590= 80 ft/lbs of room left. This is why the transmission will need to be upgraded much sooner on the LLY motors than the old LB7 version.


Isn't the power only in 2,3,4 gears??? I thought EDGE said they had 900 lbs TQ behind those gears with no problems (stock tranny)...I wouldn't mind a 90 hp increase in first, 150-(200http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif) in 2nd,3rd,4th....and maybe 50-90 in 5th.


If the Manufacture can manipulate it for different gears, why not the performance people, OR are they?????








The edge does defuel 5th gear when it detects slippage.

Point is, they can crank up the power for 2-4th gears. That way nobody has to worry about getting too close to maxed out....

"IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE !!!!" who knows ?

YEA and THEY AIN'T TALKIN


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Ok, I've haven't been back on the site for about two weeks now and was hoping by now there would be some thing for LLY. But still nothing !http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif Are they waiting for the new tranys for the Allison and the up dated LLY's so they can make the juice compatible for all before they release it or what ? Somebody must know, there are alot of people on this site just waiting COME OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNN. They have had LLY since the END of January for building and testing.

Edge is working on it everyday. Unlike other companies, they wait until they get it right. They are not interested in being the first out with something, they are interested in being the BEST. I am not saying that other modules are junk, just that EDGE likes to have all their ducks in a row before release. I am sure the already released modules are sweet, I will be trying one as soon as GM can fix my righttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif

To insinuate that edge has everthing perfected before it's release would be wrong. Every company has to deal with issues on past models and future models. Some more than others but edge has a lot of experience and a lot of revisions. I believe that most company's will have better luck with the lly than the original tunes of the lb7 since some of the technology will cross over. I also believe that as new year models come out that will cause more problems for all the company's just like the lb7 did. If GM would just get it right and leave it alone then all the tuners would have it easier. Point is any company will have some issues in my opinion and anyone buying a product should be aware that even on the lb7 some programs or modules don't work well but on another truck it may be great. Edited by: CPMac

I didn't post the "they are...." post on this thread, how the heck did that happen?

I didn't post the "they are...." post on this thread, how the heck did that happen?


Looks to me like you were answering the question about whether or not Allison is going to be offering some upgraded transmissions, not whether or not a Juice is available for the LLY...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


Allison's web site says that they've got a whole new line of transmissions coming out, Vocational models IIRC, so you were right on the post.

Juice/attitude is about to be released, 15-30 days. A group buy has been formed for it.


PM me for details

You guys better hope EDGE treats the D-MAX guys better than the Cummins guys. I Think that EDGE makes awesome products but as for the juice for the HPCR SO, HO, and 600 cummins motors were still waiting. I understand that it takes time to make these products for us but EDGE has put off the Dodge guys for about a year and a half saying the juice will be ready in one more month... Guess what, people are still getting that. They just relesed a few betas for testing and now its back to the drawing board for fixes. As for the 600 they are saying about 6-8 more months because of software and ECM changes (jsut like the lly). So what does this mean? The EDGE EZ for the cummins HPCR is awesome and proven reliable time and time agin and I expect no less for their Juice, I just cant stand being put off like this along with many other people that have been treated this way. This is just my experience and my 2 cents. Good luck to you LLY guys in getting this product.

You guys better hope EDGE treats the D-MAX guys better than the Cummins guys. I Think that EDGE makes awesome products but as for the juice for the HPCR SO, HO, and 600 cummins motors were still waiting. I understand that it takes time to make these products for us but EDGE has put off the Dodge guys for about a year and a half saying the juice will be ready in one more month... Guess what, people are still getting that. They just relesed a few betas for testing and now its back to the drawing board for fixes. As for the 600 they are saying about 6-8 more months because of software and ECM changes (jsut like the lly). So what does this mean? The EDGE EZ for the cummins HPCR is awesome and proven reliable time and time agin and I expect no less for their Juice, I just cant stand being put off like this along with many other people that have been treated this way. This is just my experience and my 2 cents. Good luck to you LLY guys in getting this product.

???

You make it sound like you DESERVE to have an Edge made for the Dodge. Like its owed to you or something?

???

I guess I don't understand your tone...

well just look at in my way. Edge makes aftermarket products for our diesel trucks right? well I was a die hard EDGE fan but since I bought my new 600 myself and many other dodge drivers called EDGE for a long, long time to get some insight on the juice for our trucks, but guess what? NO answers form anyone all they could say is "One more month, one more month" guess what that was almost 2 years ago. EDGE has lost alot of its Dodge customers since the intro of the TST PMCR and the VA duration box. But even still the one beta box that was out was only listed as being 120 hp. While the TST alone has dynoed at almost 200 hp, and the VA is rated at 130 HP without timing. This is just safety for EDGE im sure so good for them in making that call, Its what BANKS says also and people use their products "Safe reliable power". The bottom line is they are losing customers. No customers no business, BOTTOM LINE! I am now sold on TST products hands down, great customer service and products. I dont think EDGE OWES me anything, They are in the business to make aftermarket upgrades for diesel trucks and they have delivered it with the EZ module for the HPCR cummins. But just like alot of other people that drive diesel trucks WE WANT MORE POWER! and EDGE hasnt delivered that to us but they keep putting us (the customer) off. Not good for business in my book. I wrote that post to tell you Dmax guys what edge was doing to us with the release of a new injection design for the cummins motor, kind of like the newly setup LLY motor. EDGE may not put the Dmax guys or anyone else off anymore I cant say but I just posted the facts on what was done to the Cummins guys.

I will add 2 cents. I feel your pain. But of course, edge does not want to miss out on market share. At the same time they have to reverse engineer every aspect of the powerplant to produce a reputable product, which they do very well. They just don't settle for putting out something that will just compete with the next box. They want your business, but they can't give you something that won't work well, and reverse engineering is a tricky business, with a lot on the line. With a fixed staff of techies, and a lot of new projects lately, something has to give, the LLY was already 90% complete in the Lb7, with no rocket science changes, so good reason to expect something quick.


I will give you, they should put some link on the page that gives folks some valid information to progress on your (and our) boxes. Knowing that Edge actually beta tests in our community is some indication, you can get the feedback of those guys right here. Just do a search for "LLY edge" and the comments will tell you if there is a problem or release is imminent. Still it is frustrating that make no announcement in advance, but that is also a good thing, knowing they aren't going to put out a harmful product just because they invested in marketing it. So my money is in edge, a no hack company with some of the best customer service industry wide.

I saw a new Dodge with an Attitude mounted on the dash, and it was on the rollers at Edge when I was up in Ogden two weeks ago. It was hooked up to a BUNCH of test equipment...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif


Doesn't look to me like they're ignoring the Ram boys, maybe just turned into a bigger project than anticipated.Edited by: Zeeb

GUYS YOU SAY THERE IS NOTHING OUT FOR LLY I HAVE SOLD MANY OF THE BULLY DOG RAPID POWER MODULES .


MOST GET A SHIFT KIT TO GO WITH HECK I HAVE EVEN SOLD PROPANE TO GO ON TOP. NOT ONE COMPLAINT YET.


P.S I HAVE ONE LEFT ANT 15 MORE ON BACK ORDER.

well just look at in my way. Edge makes aftermarket products for our diesel trucks right? well I was a die hard EDGE fan but since I bought my new 600 myself and many other dodge drivers called EDGE for a long, long time to get some insight on the juice for our trucks, but guess what? NO answers form anyone all they could say is "One more month, one more month" guess what that was almost 2 years ago. EDGE has lost alot of its Dodge customers since the intro of the TST PMCR and the VA duration box. But even still the one beta box that was out was only listed as being 120 hp. While the TST alone has dynoed at almost 200 hp, and the VA is rated at 130 HP without timing. This is just safety for EDGE im sure so good for them in making that call, Its what BANKS says also and people use their products "Safe reliable power". The bottom line is they are losing customers. No customers no business, BOTTOM LINE! I am now sold on TST products hands down, great customer service and products. I dont think EDGE OWES me anything, They are in the business to make aftermarket upgrades for diesel trucks and they have delivered it with the EZ module for the HPCR cummins. But just like alot of other people that drive diesel trucks WE WANT MORE POWER! and EDGE hasnt delivered that to us but they keep putting us (the customer) off. Not good for business in my book. I wrote that post to tell you Dmax guys what edge was doing to us with the release of a new injection design for the cummins motor, kind of like the newly setup LLY motor. EDGE may not put the Dmax guys or anyone else off anymore I cant say but I just posted the facts on what was done to the Cummins guys.





I posess a dyno run of a truck on the TDR site with over 400 RWHP on the prototype edge juice for the Dodge... mind you it is also hooked to an 03 555 with the 48RE. Edge is not ignoring you dodge boys, they are perfectying thier product... and TST's box WILL GRENADE the stock dodge turbo on any setting over 7/5... at least that is what i get from reading the TDR1 Boards... and the NWBombers board (where i share admin duties)

The reason edge is waiting is because they don't want a tst disaster. I will never and I mean never buy anything from them again. Ask many of the reputable dodge people and they will tell ya the same thing about tst. There pmxcr is a disaster waiting to happen. Only safe box out there is the edge ez for the hpcr dodges because of temps. Otherwise you better invest in twins.

well just look at in my way. Edge makes aftermarket products for our diesel trucks right? well I was a die hard EDGE fan but since I bought my new 600 myself and many other dodge drivers called EDGE for a long, long time to get some insight on the juice for our trucks, but guess what? NO answers form anyone all they could say is "One more month, one more month" guess what that was almost 2 years ago. EDGE has lost alot of its Dodge customers since the intro of the TST PMCR and the VA duration box. But even still the one beta box that was out was only listed as being 120 hp. .....snip....

Ok but in your original post, you made it sound like you had an issue with Edge's customer service. "I hope they treat you better than the Dodge guys" implying that they treated you poorly, and said "Dodges suck, we won't build an Edge for you" or something.

I can tell you that it is NOT easy to reverse engineer these things. CARB and EPA are pushing VERY hard on the manufacturers to make their PCMs "chip proof". I know this, I used to write engine control software for Navistar - I spent 2 years (1998-2000) working on the 6.0 Powerstroke program. I still have family and friends there, and can tell you that it is only getting tougher. As new models are released, with more complicated "anti-chip" programming in them, we may be waiting more like YEARS for a functional aftermarket chip, instead of months. Trust me when I tell you that the mfr's are just as aware of these tuner boards as we are. They are fully aware of what we're doing to our trucks, and know how we are defeating their systems. They are working to find ways to detect when their system has been overridden, just as hard as the aftermarket is trying to figure out how to defeat the factory stuff in the first place.

Perhaps the Dodge is just more complicated to hack than GM and Ford, or perhaps Edge only had the resources to decode one new truck at a time - and decided to run with the LLY first. Who knows.Edited by: OmniGLH

As for the EDGE box that was seen on the rollers that was their 1 and only beta box out and its tight lipped, no info from user at edges request. Also they have had some problems with it and now its back to troubleshooting. As for the 600 EDGE says its going to be a long time till ANYTHING gets released for that (they dont make a product for the 600). Like I said before Im not bashing EDGE at all I was just saying its hard to be brand loyal to a company with no products availible But like EDGE has always done is make an awesome product and I know when its released it should be flawless. All I was staing was that I hope the D-max guys get their aftermarket goodies ASAP. As for TST and their product being a disaster, Its a race box not a box that should be used on max power on a stock truck for daily chores. The only reason that it has blown some turbos is because of people running this box maxed out and running at 50+ lbs of boost because mainly of not using the correct wastegate elbow (most used the restriced elbow from the EDGE EZ which spools the turbo so fast it snaps the shaft in two). Ill admit it took about 20 min worth of tunning on my 600 to get the boost #'s where they should be but now I run the he!! out of mine and it rips with no probs towing and all.

There was some talk a while back that Dodge had aftermarket-proofed the 600 by using sensors for over stressed operating engine components (over spec bending of rods shafts?) and then setting fault codes. Wonder if the Edge's delays have anything to do with fault codes?

There was some talk a while back that Dodge had aftermarket-proofed the 600 by using sensors for over stressed operating engine components (over spec bending of rods shafts?) and then setting fault codes. Wonder if the Edge's delays have anything to do with fault codes?





NO! My TST box on my 600 is awesome and 100% trouble free. As for rods bending the cummins bottom ends are basically indistructable (if thats what your saying in your post is that the 600's now have weaker rods that bend under increaced ower then set a fault code or possibly vibrate the truck apart?) The only thing diffrent with the 600 is that it has a 3rd injection event (post) and an electronic wastegate valve to control boost. The TST box is the same box for the SO, HO, and 600's its timing and duration only, just like the EDGE juice and the way I understand it is that the juice hooks up diffrently than the TST by only hooking into the injector harness and not the cam and crank sensors.

great news!!!


i wentto edge today 200 lly juice with attitudes boxed up and labeled for shipping i will have 10 on monday ready to ship


(i did not think airport security would like them in my carry on )


so monday shipping will have to do


orderonline at www.cyclonedieselshop.com (http://www.cyclonedieselshop.com)

if thats what your saying in your post is that the 600's now have weaker rods that bend under increaced ower then set a fault code or possibly vibrate the truck apart


Nope, wasn't suggesting that rather that early rumor was that Dodge had found a way to detect aftermarket power modules. The speculation/rumor was, IIRC, that sensors were detecting rod bending effects beyond specs and setting flags in nonvolatile memory to deny warranty coverage.


As with most rumors, it probably isn't true...

Mattymac.....if you are running stock turbo and valve train my bet is that in the not so distant future you are goin to stick valves open then eventually break one. That box is dangerous...trust me on that.