Well it seems Hoot has jumped ship to Cummins, Dodge seems to have put together quite a nice package. Sure like the 600 engine, but still waiting to see if the very similiar Bosch fuel system, has similiar issues for Dodge.


I think if Dodge went with a bullet proof Auto, and Stre-e-e-e-tched out their crew cab a bit more, they would probably increase their sales big-time. But from what I understand, Ram's in all configurations are selling like Hotcakes!


Still Love my D/A, and like that the prices of injectors are going down, and with secondary filter for insurance, its an awesome ride!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

At least he did not go completely overboard and buy a F**D. I personally think he made an excellent choice. Time will tell.

Hoot Got a Cummins?


After all I heard from him he got a ........ It's hard for me to say the word in the same sentence with the word Hoot.


Where's he hanging out? Is Hoot a word?

Yes Captain Hoot wasn't going to allow you to have all the fun ....


I look forward to his impressions and fact gathering info he will share ...


How are you and your Mopar doing any updates ?? Fuel econo,miles on clock any issues ??


Mac

Congrads, Hoot The Dodge does need to be stretched out a little bit, but in my case I took a hard look at it, I realizied that I could count the number of people that have rode in the back seat on one hand! The extra room is all it took for me... well besides the awsome motor.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

I was looking for the steering wheel mounted audio controls.. My invoice says I got em.

All i saw was the cruise on the wheel. Read the manual. Here, they put them behind the wheel. I thought.. man that's stupid. I was so curious I went out in the rain just now to check it out.

It's actually pretty slick. Your fingers find them with no problem. I'll be playing with my daughter tommorrow.. changing stations and she'll be giving me the looks.

captainmal.. It's way too soon for me to do any real commenting on it.. but i will anyway.. well just some.
I don't pull like you so I may never be able to share that experience. I'm not going to do any holeshots anytime soon so that's for later.. if ever. I read in the manual they say to load the motor in the first 6000 miles to help it break in faster.

Stripped of her glory....

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/5D7_out.jpg

The new ride...

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/8Z3_in2.jpg

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/78B_in1.jpgEdited by: hoot

I read that too in the manual. If you don't load the motor it could take 15,000-20,000 to break in the motor, especially if you "baby" it. I thought it was funny when the manual said you don't need to "baby" your motor. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

What size factory exhaust ?? The tailpipe looks big for some reason ....





Mac

Looks big to me too. I know the 600 has 4" I think this one is 4" from the muffler back. the 600 has a cat this one doesn't

NICE TRUCK HOOT


Congratulation !


I guess white is your color. Enjoy.


Keep us posted with any modifications you make.

Mac,


Only 24K on the truck. Most days it's parked in the garage and I commute to the marina on a scooter or motorcycle. Early May I'll be back in PA. (darn I like Florida) and hauling all over for the rest of the year.


No mods to my truck. Doubt I'll do any more than the running boards, fuel tank, cap and communications equipment that are 'normal' for me. I keep a full HF, 2 meter, cb and 'bird dog' in the truck as I'm also a ham radio operator. Fuel mileage is not as great as I hoped above 70 mph solo. It's around 18. Below 70 it often goes above 20 mpg.


Never had any issues with fuel filters or clogging and only changed it once. Will soon change the transmission fluid and differentials but still running the original stuff. Oil changes are easy and I now go over 7,000 miles on dino oil that still looks good at changing. You never add oil between changes.


Bottom line so far is it's a 'no brainer'. It's never been back to any dealer, has needed no repairs or adjustments and just is there when I need it. Reminds me of a full-sized blow up doll.


Hoot da man?

capt, Is that the oil filter on the passenger side of the engine? Looks hard to get to. Stuff all around it. Do you go from below or above?

Mac,


Only 24K on the truck. Most days it's parked in the garage and I commute to the marina on a scooter or motorcycle. Early May I'll be back in PA. (darn I like Florida) and hauling all over for the rest of the year.


No mods to my truck. Doubt I'll do any more than the running boards, fuel tank, cap and communications equipment that are 'normal' for me. I keep a full HF, 2 meter, cb and 'bird dog' in the truck as I'm also a ham radio operator. Fuel mileage is not as great as I hoped above 70 mph solo. It's around 18. Below 70 it often goes above 20 mpg.


Never had any issues with fuel filters or clogging and only changed it once. Will soon change the transmission fluid and differentials but still running the original stuff. Oil changes are easy and I now go over 7,000 miles on dino oil that still looks good at changing. You never add oil between changes.


Bottom line so far is it's a 'no brainer'. It's never been back to any dealer, has needed no repairs or adjustments and just is there when I need it. Reminds me of a full-sized blow up doll.


Hoot da man?








This is off the subjuct, but are you living in Ruskin?


I lived there for several years back in the 70's. I haven't been back through there for a couple of years. Is the drive-in theater still open? I think it's one of the last ones in Florida. Ruskin's a great little town.http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs%20Up.gif














Kevinhttp://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big%20Smile.gif

I've got over 115,000 miles on my 03 now and haven't had any injector problems, actually no engine problems at all. I'm running the EZ on level 4 so maybe all the fuel that could be leaking is going into the cylinders just like it is supposed to do. Size of the back seat is not an issue with me. If Dodge put a DTT transmission in these trucks, Ford and GM could close up shop. They wouldn't sell enough diesel trucks to warrant building them.

capt, Is that the oil filter on the passenger side of the engine? Looks hard to get to. Stuff all around it. Do you go from below or above?


Hoot,


I find it's easier to remove the filter from the bottom. I use a filter socket for removal.


MikeyB

Easiest way for me to change to oil filter is to take the two clamps loose that hold the hose from the air box to the turbo and remove it. Everything is right out in the open then, I just turn mine off by hand, replace it, tighten it by hand, replace the hose and clamps and you are done.

Hoot and Fireman,


Never tried the hose clamp removal. I put an expension on a filter wrench and just loosed the filter up from underneath. The truck is so high nothing special is required but I normally do drive it up on small ramps.


Turn the filter off by hand. DO NOT try to leave it on the wrench and extension. I learned with a quart of hot oil on my belly.


Add oil to the new filter before putting it back on by hand again. Nothing spills and it's simple. One thing interesting is it takes about three 'fills' of new oil to fill the filter. I guess it takes a bit to drain through the pleats and really fill the canister.


Buy your filters at Geno's or any Cummins/Sterling dealer. Dirt cheap compared to the stealer. Same with the fuel filters and again, simple to change.


FIREMAN - I live on 17th St.N.W. off Shell Point Road. That turns toward the Bay one red light away from the drive-in. Yes, it's still operational. You would not recognize this place with all the construction. Land values are a joke. small coastal LOTS go for over a million. My place on a canal has gone up in value over $200K in just the past two years. It's crazy but Ruskin still has it's 'character'.

Thanks for the advice. It'll be a bit yet before the first change but I figured I'd get the tips now.

357 miles on it and she's already showing 17.2 mpg

Take a peek at the fluid levels in the differentials, transmission and torque converter. Mine were fine but I've heard of some coming from the factory slightly low.


With only two grease fittings, long oil life, minimal differential service needed and the confidence you will gain with it, the truck becomes more of a tool and less of an advocation.


Guess I said that right. I just put fuel in it - rarely use addatives - and run the heck out of the thing. It doesn't need you fussin' all the time.


Get used to not seeing the front edges of the fenders?

Hoot,


Just thinking how smart you are. With all you know you bailed out before the warranty ran out. That was smart.


My problem was I learned all the stuff from being right in the middle of it. If I had known what I was gonna know, I know I would have bailed out before the warranty. Hindsight.


Kinda like women and my lack of education. I never learned to recognize mental illness at an early age.

Yea it is a little funky up front there but the turning radius is a world better.

Permanently lubed joints doesn't excite me but if in fact they hold up as long as regular greased ones it's all the better. Where are the two?

I'll be checking the levels this week.

Thanks again.

End of the tie rods, both sides. Nipples angle down to make it easy.


My thoughts on permanently lubed joints are they're fine if they work. If not, put lubed ones on.


I have a PA neighbor that should be around 90K on his '03. Talked with him last week. He was thinking of getting a new set of tires to replace his ORIGINAL SET. He tows trailers for the same place I do but does it year-round. His truck is 2x4. He also thinks he should change his ORIGINAL air filter. For a while he thought that gauge was broken as it never sucked down. He took his filter out and just shook it. Inside it was clean. Unreal. This guy has also seen 27 mpg for days. I tandom towed with him to Texas one time. He's slow and I'm sure he's the same way without a trailer. He changes his fuel filter when he thinks of it. He doesn't often think of it and went 35K without changing, doing tows all the time. No sudden and dangerous limp mode. You got it easy now kid.


When you look under the oil pan you will see the best designed oil drain plug I ever was involved with. 3/8's socket end and no dripping with a solid, repeatable torque off and on. Don't think of wasting money on one of those valves and forget all the extra filtration issues.


Probably won't even need that bottle of Grecian Formula.

I already noticed the drainplug.

I use Just for Men

I've got over 115,000 miles on my 03 now and haven't had any injector problems, actually no engine problems at all. I'm running the EZ on level 4 so maybe all the fuel that could be leaking is going into the cylinders just like it is supposed to do. Size of the back seat is not an issue with me. If Dodge put a DTT transmission in these trucks, Ford and GM could close up shop. They wouldn't sell enough diesel trucks to warrant building them.


I have to agree. If dodge put a decent tranny in, got rid of the minivan interior and white gauges I would have jumped on one in a heartbeat. I think the outside of the dodges are awsome. I do like my duramax/alli and like the looks of the GMC, but I think the dodge is a little more modern looking. I also think that dodge needs to get a rear locker and get rid of posi. I didn't like how the rear wheels always churped going around corners. GM was smart to put an eaton locker in.

Mini Van interior? That's a little harsh. I like the gauges. Heck people buy inserts and spend bucks on whole cluster replacements to get that look.

Tranny temp gauge would have been nice. It does have a lot of indicators you don't see including a trans temp idiot light and a door ajar light. The low fuel light is also audible. I know it went off yesterday. I filled it up at my usual truck stop. Full blast. Sure is nice not having to hold the nozzle the whole time.

I don't know much about the rear except it's an AAM 11.5.
It is different in that there is no drain plug at the very bottom. Must be Dodge saving money. I would like to know more about the posi.

Probably the biggest reason I tried the Dodge is because of the Cummins, certainly not because of the auto. Now since I don't seem to keep them past 100,000 miles, durability isn't a real issue but it would be nice to get THAT far. And depending on my experience you never know. I just might keep this one beings the wife has an itch for something new and the $$ might call for me to take a bow for a while.Edited by: hoot

Mini Van interior? That's a little harsh. I like the gauges. Heck people buy inserts and spend bucks on whole cluster replacements to get that look.




LOL...OK maybe it's not that bad, but I really don't like the white gauges. I'm not old, I'm 27, but I think they really look out of place.

I like em, they stand out, you don't have to squint or look real hard to read them. I like them better than the Ford's by far. I have been driving a 99' F-250 for the last two days, and I must say it is a good truck, but dam that dash is the plainest thing I have ever seen.

I'm a fan of white gauges. Alot of people are suprised to see such a thing in a diesel! They think "fast and furious" when they see it, I think it's such a suprise becuase they come stock from the dealer that way and you don't have to buy replacement lenses. There is one downfall however.... at night you can't see the thin lines that are cut into the gauges splitting the readings ever so slightly. I have tried using the backlight at full power and still can't see the lines. I know it's small, but when they made the small indicator marks, it should be seen at night.

Tacky........one of the main reasons I'm thinking why not to buy a Dodge when the Cummins keeps calling to me over. Shame Ford has ruined their reputation with the intro mess 6.0, I still think the body integrity on the Fords are second to none. I still say Gm are like station wagons with pickup beds. I'm going to have to try one of those 600's here pretty soon before people figure out the Duramax's don't make it past the average life of a set of spark plugs with their injectors and the truck has no resale.

Not much choice left huh? I agree with you about the F**ds having a great truck looking body style...but the Dodge isn't that far behind. It serves as a truck very well and doesn't look like the "station wagon with a pickup bed" The 4x4's sit high like they should and the body styling looks don't give a wimpy look.

I can't get past Ford's design and build quality. They are good looking trucks but Ford does not build a quality well designed vehicle in my opinion. I know a lot of people think I'm nuts when I say that and I'm sorry. It's THE TRUTH as far as I'm concerned. The thing is they do make trucks for the light duty commercial world as in F450 and F550 that neither GM or Dodge competes with. Between that and the old 7.3 diesel, Ford made a killing. OK, you might say if they are such junk, why do people keep buying them? I don't mean total junk. They do what they were intended to do usually pretty well but that doesn't make them the greatest. As said so many times before... none are perfect and all three brands are intended for slightly different markets.

I could post a picture of a dodge, my 03 dodge( white may I add) that had 37000 miles, exploded 2 turbos and two motors. I defected to the duramax. You think GM servive stinks, you better hope that you never have to deal with dodge on any warranty issues. I flat out voided my own warranty because My truck had a total down time of over 12 weeks in its first year. I finely pulled it from the shop on my own will because the monkeys there had no clue. Fixed it out of my own pocket and promptly got rid of it!! Dodge wouldn't buy it back, and I did'nt want to waste any more energy on lawyers. The common rail in the cummins stinks, don't have enough room on this page to elaborate but it all boils down to temperature, turn it up at all and you need exhaust manifold turbo at the minimum. If I could have any diesel motor on the planet I would want the old 12v of yesteryear. Edited by: dpower

The Duramax incorporates a box called the EDU ....It's cooled via fuel to cool the electronics needed for the injectors high voltage requirements ... I'm hoping HOOT starts digging up some info on this what Cummins uses or doesen't use ...


The HPCR was used in the Cummins in Europe long before the Duramax ....


Junk ?? I dunno about that ...











Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

Personally I'm not real concerned about it dpower. I would have to say you were doing some beta testing and it backfired on you. I heard of a few grenaded Dmaxes way back when they were playing with the first trucks.

Feel free to elaborate on the common rail specifics. Doesn't seem to be a problem with the DMax as far as temps are concerned. Maybe those aluminum heads and water cooled turbo do a lot more than originally thought.

So now you're playing with common rail that you say is no good? Seems like there's no getting away from it. What's specifically wrong with it in the Cummins. I figured with so much more control it had to be better.

What I don't want to do is get into an arguement about injection system durability. That will be interesting to see if the Cummins has similar failure rates.

MAC, I'm not sure the cooled EDU is any sort of advantage. I see it on the Dmax as a bandaid or some sort of fear from the previous 6.5TD fuel driver problems. Maybe not.
The Cummins doesn't have a seperate unit like the Dmax. It's all in one big package bolted to the drivers side of the engine. No fuel cooling. No fuel cooler as far as I know under the truck either. Also the ABS unit is in the engine compartment way up high next to the power brake unit.

Here's a pic from the cutaway engine at the car show...
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/EF8_ecm.jpgEdited by: hoot

HOOT do you know if the Cummins injector are the same in voltage requirement ??


No fuel cooler is interesting also ....





Mac

I am not starting an argument here by any means, put a pyro on it and you will know right away what I mean. Even with a small increase in power like a tow pro from edge @ about 70 hp, the pyro would climb so hard and so fast it would keep up with my boost gauge. Way, beyond stock turbo capabilities right away. Putting an hx-40 on it was a complete waste, it lasted a month and gave 0 help in the temp department with the tow pro and 100 hp injectors. Add a race box like quadzilla 140( Which by the way worked well, by that I mean no codes and smooth power) and well pieces begin to fly. At this point I had an ats manifold, ksb1 race turbo( custom from piers, supposed to be stronger, it melted down..no money back or replacement either...argh) 4in down pipe into 6in stacks and the temps were outrageous. The pmxcr was and is still a disaster, stay the heck away from this one. The valve train is weak in these trucks, fried them with injectors and tow pro. Heavy duty replacements, 1200 bucks. Never got around to this one. The six speed tranny worked well with the enterprise twin disc. Great clutch and well worth the money. The reasons I bought a dmax...ride, tranny (which will be upgraded with complete ats exchange) and all around feel. This truck will be a tow vehicle for a 12v pulling truck I have in the works. I am fully aware that it has a common rail, all the new ones do and if I had my choice, I would love to see the return of the mechanical 12v days. Not bashing your choice, I am a cummins fan. Just further explaining myself here, tryin to lead people in the right direction. Basically, everyone can learn from my experience with the truck.





Thanks


Dpowerhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Oh yeah, both replacement motors where back ordered. 5 people ahead of me both times. They where all 03 04 models too because the block has been changed for the common rail contrary to popular beleif. That means people are experiencing what I have been thru.


Dpower

So why did you wait until after i bought mine to tell us the bad news http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

As I said... I'm not in this for big power.
What blew that required a new motor? And are there any showstoppers for stock engines?

What block changes were needed to do common rail? I know the heads needed a lot of change. What makes it better or worse because of the block change?Edited by: hoot

hoot..........


better not hot rod the 305/555..........sounds like Dodge might be too smart for thier own good......


Build it just good enough to last but not good enough to hot rod.......Saves a lot of CHRYSLER warranty bucks when you can't modify the engine.


Enjoy it stock..........500K miles right...........?????


Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gifNY

Tony... I'm not doing much at all. Just exhaust for looks and sound ... did the intake mod. But mainly I'm treating this one good. I would do the same if I went GM. Just can't afford the repercussions. As many have said.. You Play You Pay.


Sounds like a turbo might be in order but you're only talking $350 for an exchange so that ain't no biggy. It looks like they just need to get the right program.
They claim they are already about where Dmax is without drugs but more torque. I follow the wars but you know i dont get too involved in the chest pounding as far as mods are concerned.

Here are some comments from those in the know.
Comments (http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?s=&postid=411705#post411705)Edited by: hoot

Hoot, tow pro, intake, a good 4in. exhaust with out cat and a bomber lite turbo and an ats manifold. Probably gonna need to get the tranny done. Lots of good options out there for the tranny, that should be no problem. Oh yeah boost, tranny and pyro fuel pressure if ya want to do injectors but I personally would stay away from that for now. Go with 50 hp injectors if you want these down the road. The electronics are not available yet for the truck yet but I am sure edge will have a 70 hp module soon.


dpower

Sounds like dpower was asking for it with that many mods on a truck that really wasn't broken in yet. As far as minor mods, I have had an Edge ez running on level 4 for almost 100,000 miles now with no engine problems at all. I run hotshot in the oil fields pulling a G/N trailer that weighs 7k empty and will sometimes gross over 25k. I make my living doing this and do it everyday, no problems at all. No one has made anything you can't break if you try hard enough. If dpower puts the mods to the d-max he did to the cummins and uses it the same way, I doubt it will last either.


I'm over 117,000 miles now, no problems.

Asking for it not really. Truck was broken in. It does not take long to break in the new diesel motors like the old ones. Lots of old 12v and the older style 24v runnin around with over 500 hp at the rw, and are dependable as well. An edge ez shouldn't be a problem, like I said above. If you read my above posts, the dmax will be a tow vehicle and will not be modded like the cummins. I attempted to make the 03 a hotrod like so many of the older style trucks, and it didn't work for me, maybe somebody will figure it out someday.

I have driven all of them, and I must say if I had the money I would put the cummins in a ford body with an allison auto transmission, I liked something about every truck, and I disliked something about them too. I might have went with the Dodge if it had been a true "Crew Cab", I have two growing sons, plus a 13 year old nephew who goes with us on our summer treks to Colorado, I need all the backseat space I can get. I must say I really, really liked the H/O Cummins, and I even told the salesman I would have bought it if it had been bigger.


Have fun and be safe

Air induction & Exuast is the only thing you should do to the newer trucks. It is fun and all to play around with them but yes it does come with a price, maybe infecting reliability. If you need such more horses you should upgrade to a medium duty engine and truck. Most everything out there that can be towed, can be done so without messing with HP. Think about it. A 400 horsepower 18 wheeler truck pulls 80,000 pounds or more. That is 100 horse per 20,000 pounds. Todays trucks shouldn't need chipping or messing with the computer module to perform to standards.

Yeah but, the tq numbers are 3-4 times greater in the big rigs.

That's true, I don't know of any trailers (maybe speciality trailers) that weigh 30,000 or more that a light duty is hauling.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Question.gif

I know a lot of guys who are doing it....although its not safe. Also those days are over cause the DOT is really crackin down around here. Some of the stuff guys are gettin nailed for are ridiculous but I beleive the changes are mostly for the good. Noticed a lot more medium duty truck brocheures lately at the dealerships, wonder if its coincidence?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I agree with CTD600. You guys who are bombing the hell out of these new trucks need your head examined. We pull some of the heavier stuff out there, and our bone stock 03-04 Dodge's do it all with ease. If you need more truck than what they are, get a medium duty. Don't bitch about dealers not warrantying trucks when you have modded them to the point you are talking about.

Yeah, I bet you pull all the hills at 75mph and get 26mpg. Thanks for your intelligent input.

Yeah, I bet you pull all the hills at 75mph and get 26mpg. Thanks for your intelligent input.

Cummins Luke didn't say that but what he did say was intelligent.

There are different thoughts on this. Buy the truck and use it as advertised or buy it and mod the heck out of it.

The latter is more for fun and for people with big bucks.

Nothing wrong with either. A few years back the Cummins was a dog and had to be modded. Looks like it's not such a requirement now. I'm doing some minor stuff myself cause we know there are things you can do to improve performance some without voiding the warranty. (I ain't goin on no warranty kick here... believe me)

Nothing wrong with modding the heck out of em either but just because one engine is cheaper to make big power with than another doesn't make it a better motor by any means. I love reading about engines being blown up in the name of BIG power. That's how you discover the limitations and weak points. The ones with the most perserverence and thicker wallet, wins.

I personally don't have the resources and hope to be happy with this thing staying relatively stock.

Edited by: hoot

dpower, No, I can't do 75 on all hills, and I don't get 26mpg. Yesterday I was pulling the big trailer with 4 big horses in it with the wife's truck, an 03 2500 HO/48re/3.73's and was pulling most hills out on the interstate at 60-70mph and it averaged about 11mpg. But we had a pretty good load on it, about 13 or 14k. Not the heaviest I pull by any means, but not light either. I think running the speed limit and still getting over 10mpg is respectable with that kind of a load. And the thing that I think is more respectable is that the 48re never shifted outta OD. It pulls dam near every one in OD. Hell, my C4500 D/A with 4.44 gears couldn't even do that. I get P.O.'d when guys mod the hell outta stuff and then get mad cause I won't warranty it when it takes a crap.

DPower, what actually happened to the two blocks that had to replaced? That's some serious money if you ended up having to cover it yourself.

I'm willing to bet it was munching on turbo parts.

dpower, No, I can't do 75 on all hills, and I don't get 26mpg. Yesterday I was pulling the big trailer with 4 big horses in it with the wife's truck, an 03 2500 HO/48re/3.73's and was pulling most hills out on the interstate at 60-70mph and it averaged about 11mpg. But we had a pretty good load on it, about 13 or 14k. Not the heaviest I pull by any means, but not light either. I think running the speed limit and still getting over 10mpg is respectable with that kind of a load. And the thing that I think is more respectable is that the 48re never shifted outta OD. It pulls dam near every one in OD. Hell, my C4500 D/A with 4.44 gears couldn't even do that. I get P.O.'d when guys mod the hell outta stuff and then get mad cause I won't warranty it when it takes a crap.


Engine power doesn't directly dictate when you down shift. The TCM recieves information from the ECM then reacts as it is programed to. It's not the same with Dodge,Ford or Chevy. If you put the 48re in the Chevy the down shifts would differ and vis-versa due to the different programing. Torque does play a role but the programing plays the larger part. While the inline 6 does lay down more low end torque the numbers do not largely differ.

First off, I never asked for warranty or wanted it.The second motor was warranted thru cummins, that motor had zero done to it when the crank came apart. I do my own work. I am done with this thread. I posted info to help. Apparently some of you guys know it all so go for it. Good luck with whatever you buy and have fun and be safe! Cummins 600, I take it your a tech? What dealer do you work for. Just wanted to know so I never do business at your place.

Well.... Excuuuuuuuuse us http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

My mom said my first words were "I know everything"

dpower, If you didn't ask for warranty or want it then why did you say you hope nobody has to deal with Dodge on warranty? Excuse me if you think I'm being an a$$. You just sound like a big troll, thats all. A broken crank on a stock Cummins? I mean come on, is that hte best one you can think of? Oh ya the Common rail sucks too, thats why I am selling every one we can get our hands on and haven't repaired one yet.


A bear, the point I was trying to make is my Dodge's will hold OD on hill that my Chevy's won't. If the Chevy was programmed right it could probably do it too, but it's not. There is nothing more anoying to me than cruising down the interstate and my Chevy's having to kick down and run up to 3k to pull a hill. I am not saying 48re's are the best thing ever and allison's suck. But Hoot can atest that I have been bitching about the shift happy alli since they came out, which was way before the 48re was ever heard of.

What i don't like about the Allison is it just doesn't downshift, it drops from fifth to third. And after three frikin years they haven't changed it.Edited by: hoot

First off, I never asked for warranty or wanted it.The second motor was warranted thru cummins, that motor had zero done to it when the crank came apart. I do my own work. I am done with this thread. I posted info to help. Apparently some of you guys know it all so go for it. Good luck with whatever you buy and have fun and be safe! Cummins 600, I take it your a tech? What dealer do you work for. Just wanted to know so I never do business at your place.





What did I do? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif But... Who wouldn't want a warranty???http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gif

Troll thats a good one. Yes crank, defective part, so when it came apart it was a total mess and there for total replacement, kudos to cummins on that one. Hoot where did you get the impression "that I know everything"? Warranty was on axle seals and spider gears first three days I had the truck. Took two weeks for parts. Thats BS.

Apparently some of you guys know it all so go for it.

Just a joke.

Dmaxes lost some cranks early on. Please don't mix up a stock failure with your induced failures without being clear. If no one asked we'd have assumed they were both caused by "lets see what this does" mods. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Watcha gonna do after blowing up all three brands? Edited by: hoot

One last time, that truck was a sled pulling truck. Wanted to see what the cummins would do with the hpcr. That type of fuel system seemed to have a lot of promise fuel and horsepower wise. Tried it one season, pulled decent in the street class and over the winter tried to step it up to play with the big boys. Basically the technology isn't there yeat. Thought I was giving good info on what you could and probaly couldn't do on an everday street machine. I just couldn't keep havin motor failures to the point of replacement every third pull or so. Workin on the 12v but it will not be ready this season, my budget is exhausted from tryin to salvage the 03. After I blow up all 3 I am gonna buy a civic!!! Sorry if I offended anyone or came off as irogant as that was not my intention. As for 600 cummins, I don't think many people would respond too well to your comments. Think about it.If you are a tech you gotta realize that not everybody who walks thru your door is an idiot. Attitude like that will cost ya business I promise you that.Edited by: dpower

dpower,

You didn't offend anyone. It's all good but when you piece meal your story, we ask questions. We aren't the politest bunch. I personally thank you for letting us know your lessons learned. Again, I'm not a big Power guy or a sled puller but I'm sure everyone likes to hear (i know i do) what makes these things tick.... or tockhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Nuke.gif Edited by: hoot

How long have the 48re's been out. My dad has a 2002 that experienced transmission problems but I don't think he has the 48re.


Hoot, You say that your Allison down shifted from 5th to 3rd. I am currently towing +- 15K and my Allison only downshifts from overdrive on the steeper grades. Never jumped down to 3rd. Would rather not lug the steep grades with a load anyway. Was this gear skipping isolated or have you heard of it from others. When I mention steep grades these are overpasses in my area so they don't last long. I do live in flat terrain. Edited by: a bear

I believe the gear skipping is common.

I think the Allison is awsome but there is something more to it that GM engineers aren't telling us. I find it hard to fathom such a beafy unit can only handle 520 ft lbs. i guess by keeping the spec there it increases durability. But they screw up when they don't let the diesel do it's duty and downshift it. That ruins the whole idea of a diesel.

You don't hear many people complaining about it now so maybe they got a handle on it or everybody is running a power box that had problems.

I personally had no real issues because I don't haul big loads but it is noticable on the highway when you lay into it. Boom.... right down into third and no rpms left.

I'm not doing any 48RE bragging either. Who knows what the future is with my truck. I must say it is a much more civilized trans. And it does hold gears well... at least the programming allows it to hold.

Most of what I've read over the years is you can beef up these Torqflites (if thats what they still are) pretty good without a lot of cash. Same with the Ford trannies.
With 7/70 warranty and less at stake afterwards

I'm going low budget if you haven't figured it out yet and trying to justify it.Edited by: hoot

The 48re wasn't introduced until mid 03 to go behind the HO. The previous tranny was the 47re and it was infamous for puking under stock conditions. My buddy has a gasser pullin truck, bought a dodge to tow and it lasted two tows before it died on us. The screwy thing is for about 4 grand you can make it bullet proof. Lots of big number autos out there runnin this beefeed up tranny with good success.

Thanks Edited by: a bear

hey a bear, how do ya like those bridgestone Revo's? They got pretty good reviews. Off road performance acceptable? I am talkin snow, forest roads, not like rock climbing or anything.

Oh yeah, I am pretty sure that the allision shift pattern has been changed on the lly. Heard that thru the grapevine, waiting for conformation. Mines holding OD great. Hey 600 cummins, why were you buying and driving chevy's when you work @ a dodge dealership? Seems to me you should be taking advantage of the employee program. So are you a tech or what? What dealer do you work at?

The Revo's perform better than I expected. The ride and quietness is great and they pull good offroad. They haven't seen snow because of where I live but they are awesome on wet roads. They really hold the pavement. They will pick up a few rocks when new but it gets better as the squared edges ware in a little. They now have 10K and they are still like new. My favorite to date.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Couple more pics. I added the Dodge Chrome (plastic) bug shield and the billet plastic grill bars.

One nice thing is Dodge designed the add on accessories so that they were super easy to install. Almost with no tools and mounting holes always already there.

If this nose don't say "Get outta my way"....

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/398_front1.jpg


Check out the fold out towing mirrors. No shake
Note the pile of hickory... got white paint on some of it. I split that whole thing by hand with "take that" at each swing of the sledge.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/A5C_mirror1.jpgEdited by: hoot

Hey hoot, was that you over at tdr asking about smoke? I got a quadzilla box that will get ya some smoke and is a safe reliable box. If ya want I can find out if it will work on the 600. One thing you will need to do is get rid of that muffler and cat.

I don't have a CAT.... see sig... 2004

5" straight and a 6" stainless tip is on the brown truck

Manual fold out mirrors, but they are power adjusting. I have the same thing on my truck. (from first impressions)


How much did you pay for the grille? It looks alot better with the grille and the bug shield.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif


Looks like your perfectly split wood is getting wet!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Manual fold out mirrors, but they are power adjusting. I have the same thing on my truck. (from first impressions)


How much did you pay for the grille? It looks alot better with the grille and the bug shield.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif


Looks like your perfectly split wood is getting wet!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Isn't it funny how they advertise the trailering mirrors as..

Power Folding Trailer-Tow Mirrors

Sure sounds like there should have been a switch to actuate the power folding feature http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Unhappy.gif

The grill is $99 and the bug shield is $90 I got the bug shield for $75 cause my salesman talked to the parts dept for me.

They need to put a comma between power and folding. "power, folding trailer tow mirrors" is how it should read.

a bear.,


I'm with you. I tow grossed out at 19,500 regularly and I have never had a downshift from 5th to 3rd, and on the down shift I have never seen RPM over about 2,700 on the downshift, if I am running in the 60 to 70 MPH range. Unless it is a downshift for grade braking, then it will go higher.


I can't recall mine ever downshifting empty with the cruise on at 70 MPH no matter what grade I was on. As Hoot never loaded his I'm sure there must have been something wrong with it if it was shifting all the way to 3rd from 5th empty.


Regards,


Bill

a bear.,
I'm with you. I tow grossed out at 19,500 regularly and I have never had a downshift from 5th to 3rd, and on the down shift I have never seen RPM over about 2,700 on the downshift, if I am running in the 60 to 70 MPH range. Unless it is a downshift for grade braking, then it will go higher.
I can't recall mine ever downshifting empty with the cruise on at 70 MPH no matter what grade I was on. As Hoot never loaded his I'm sure there must have been something wrong with it if it was shifting all the way to 3rd from 5th empty.
Regards,


Bill


Bill... I know for a fact I'm not the only one that complained about it. Anyway... it was an 01 truck. I would expect by 04 things would have improved.

BTW Bill... thanks for help over on the GM-D site. Those guys are truly obsessed with me.Edited by: hoot

Hoot,


Mine is an 02, but like I said, I have never had a problem, so it must have been something in your programing. Not saying you and others didn't have the problem, just saying I don't think it's normal.


I wasn't trying to help or hurt with my post on the GM-D site, and am not trying to take anyone's side. It just seems pointless to keep picking.


Was that your post under "Yo Hoot" on the TDR page having problems with 70mph viberation? I'm not a member so I couldn't look at the profile. If so, I'm sorry to hear it. I have considered a Dodge on occasion, but the auto trans, and lack of a crew cab have kept me away. Not to mention the mileage reports. Most seem less that my DMax with the 600.


Regards,


Bill

Yes it is. I'm working to have it resolved now. Sucks when you get a brand new vehicle and the dealers treat you like crap. Looks like I found a couple of good dealers through PM response on those threads.

It sometimes seems like no matter what brand you go with it's a crap shoot.Edited by: hoot

Crap shoot for sure. I had a ford about 5 years ago now and it had fuel issues at 500 miles. I would fill the tank and fuel would spill out ever where from under the fuel tank and fuel lines. Talk about crappy mileage. Anyhow, the dealer, whom my family had purchased 10 vehicles from in the past 5 years treated me like crap. So none of them are your friends trust me on that one. Hoot, sorry to tell you this but dodge is by far the worst customer service I have ever experienced. There diesel techs, at least the ones I have dealt with didn't have a clue. Not exactly sure what they teach these guys at cummins school sometime. They think these trucks are indestructible stock and look at you side ways when you can tell something is out of sorts. Best thing to do is search out a dealer with half a brain. As far as your mileage, they do have a re-flash available for that, don't know if there is a tsb on it or not but dodge is aware of this problem.

Hoot,


I rode in a friends 2003 HO auto this past week and it also has a vibration, noticed it right off. I have owened several Dodge products over the years and the ones I had problems with, were not pleasant experiences as far as service is concerned. The favorite quote I received was "It is operating to factory specs" even from zone reps. Good luck getting this resolved.

dpower.

I'm not sure where you're getting your stuff on me. I don't have the 600 and my mileage is quite good. 17 and up.

You're right about service. I have had super service with my GM vehicles.

I think the key with mine is to find a dealer. I found a local that has a Cummins that just turned me on to a dealer that he knows is good. There are many GM dealers that chase you away if you say diesel.

Hacksaw,

Thanks. You get that kind of treatment on all brands but my experience is GM has been the best especially now that Dodge is showing me their stuff..

Right now the vib is the only problem I have. It's not something that's a showstopper but it's also not something that i will put up with. Too much money to accept it. It's going in again Monday at another dealer. Nice thing is they gave me a 3/36 free rental car contract. Once this vib thing is fixed, and it will be I hope I won't need to use the free rental.

Don't put that 3/36 free rental contract too far out of sight.You will be a frequent neon flyer my friend.

Got another humper

I am confused I guess, if you have the 555 the vibration is normal. It is not goin away. Besides, it is a diesel its supposed to vibrate. Let me know how it turns out but I seriously think you might want to consider just not taking the truck in because they can't fix anything if it is not broken, trust me its normal.

dpower,

If it was normal than the ones that don't have it got jipped. They need to take their's in to have it installed!

I checked my 2003 on the way home last night....no vibrations that I can feel/hear.


PS - this is a new 2003 ( last on the lot type deal with about 1700 miles so far - picked it up March 31st/04) 4x4 long box


Cheers

Oh hoot, I hope everything works out for ya bud.

Thanks d

a bear said:
"Hoot, You say that your Allison down shifted from 5th to 3rd. I am currently towing +- 15K and my Allison only downshifts from overdrive on the steeper grades. Never jumped down to 3rd. Would rather not lug the steep grades with a load anyway. Was this gear skipping isolated or have you heard of it from others. When I mention steep grades these are overpasses in my area so they don't last long. I do live in flat terrain."

Hoot, never saw where you said you had 5-3 shift problems before - haven't heard of anyone else either. Any hoo, when towing moderate weights, my '02 shifts down from 5th to 4th on 6-7% grades and when it does it catches at about 2400-2500 RPMs and is then raring to go faster.

It did this automatically before I installed the ODLO but I wanted better control over lugging so I can now select 4th at will. This works especially well on downgrades as the change from 5th to 3rd when grade braking was way too many RPMs for my taste. This is while towing 6000# to 9000# trailers over I-80 in the Sierras and over the Siskiyous in Oregon on I-5 and traveling 55 - 65 mph (speed limit++).

My experience with Dodge/Chrysler was not good - I bought new one of the 1st generation CTD ('89 350 1 ton LB 2WD with 3.08 gears). Torqueconverter/Transmission was way underdesigned/engineered and etc, etc. Drove it over 100,000 miles and saw the mileage dip from a steady 22mpg solo to about 18 when CA mandated new diesel fuel formulation!

The thing that broke the camel's back with Dodge was when the extreme paint delamination began after about three years. The dealer and area rep stone-walled the issue so I got no assistance on repaint - they offered $250.00 help on hood and cab only with no further liability on their part -- and the paint was flying off from all over the truck as it went down the road! Needless to say I'm off Dodge/Chrysler for good as they wouldn't stand behind their product!

Traded (gave away) for my used '02 D/A and am really pleased with it so far. Again, time will tell on GM's issues - hoping I will dodge the injector bullet! Have Nictane preOEM and using Primrose 405.

Having said all that the CTD has really been a work horse engine and the newer rigs really look good. As for their new HPCR and transmission designs - time will tell. Wish you well with your new ride and appreciate your rational input on the many topics you post on.

Bill

Thanks bill.

Overall my experience with my GMC was very good. I didn't neccesarily "defect". I was interested in owning the New Dodge this go around.

The 5-3 downshift was not an ongoing issue for me. Other complained about it early on. It's just one of the idiosyncrocies that annoyed me. Usually happens on the highway when you decide to lay into the throttle for more acceleration but not peddle to the metal.

I also had bad experiences with a couple of Fords trucks I owned way back. And it wasn't just the mechanicals that turned me off. The trucks just seemed cheaply made. Had a 1980 FOrd pickup with a straight six. Interior was falling apart around me, brakes were eating rotors and it would ping all the time. That's a long time ago now though and it would not be fair to judge Ford by that experience alone. GM and Dodge were building some crap too.

Your experience with paint peeling was industry wide due to the change to low emissions painting sysyems and the learning curve.

The torqur convertor issues with the Dodge were certainly serious. I talked to an older fellow at the Philly car show a couple of years ago. He had a later model Dodge Cummins and after adding some power he clamined he went through six convertors. Sounds nuts but he was a sincere fellow and loved his Dodge.

I beleive even if it's still an issue, it's not all that expensive to deal with. Heck even the Dmax converter ain't nothng special. I have not read of an abnormal amount of TC failures in the newer trucks but I also have not read about a lot of high power applications. These HPCR Cummins seem to be tough ones to BOMB.

It's good to have a variety of owners talking. I wish everybody the best with their trucks.... GM, Dodge, and even Ford owners http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

My days of big time brand bashing are over. I've been "changed" in more ways than one.

It's good to have a variety of owners talking. I wish everybody the best with their trucks.... GM, Dodge, and even Ford owners http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

My days of big time brand bashing are over. I've been "changed" in more ways than one.





Bless you my child .ST HOOT you are such an enlightment!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif


This is such a forgiving side that i have never seen...........


Mike what ....................the He11 ..........are you alright?


LOCK-JAW?????????? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ouch.gif

I'm fine Broker.



Edited by: hoot