My truck is stumping all to date, some say rebuild the IP, I don't want to drop the $$$!

Getting Code 78's in all kinds of conditions, checked out wastegate train. I found 15" of Hg vaccume, fixed leaking vacuum lines. Also replaced manifold sensor and w.gate solenoid

Wastegate opens on kickdown to 3000rpm. I don't have a manifold pressure guage (yet)

I can't see why the black smoke would start after the turbo rebuild, intuition is that turbo boost should give leaner mixture. I am finding that I can avoid black smoke by holding narrow rev band, and easing into acceleration, tromping the pedal blows smoke,
(course I wouldn't drive like that if I didn't want to see what happens).

SES light on and off probably code 78 doesn't seem right but it's there, what else might it be pointing too?

The ancillary problem is the ragged rattley running of the engine.

Additional info: At turbo replacement (Monday) engine had no start condition. Only explanation ?? seemed no lifter pressure after oil change, (with reprimed filter cartridge), started after 10 minute wait, failed to run past 5-10 seconds, then restarted after 10second crank & ran normal.



Anyone believe that this injection pump is needing rebuild? What am I missing?

Tie the WG shut with baling wire, give it a run up the street, see what happens.

Black smoke after turbo replacement means one that the injection pump is not the problem.

Either you got a bad turbo, of it was installed incorrectly.

Pull the air intake boot off of it and check for play/wear on the compressor wheel inside the turbo. If it clanks around, take it back. If it doesn't, check that your WG actuator has good vacuum supply and does hold vacuum.

Can overmileage (80kmile) injectors cause smoking and rattley operation, also experience slight surging on heavy trailerpulling.

Is there any othyer reason for Code 78 shy of faulty wastegate/turbo operations, i.e. can IP or I's affect the operation sufficiently for 78's to cycle.

Map sensor is probably failing - rectangular black module in the intake plenum.

DTC78 means over-Boost

Bad fuel causes noisy engine operation

Plugged air filter causes black smoke

You need to update/add your signature. Include all relavent info about the truck and possibly some things you think aren't substantial. This will help others diagnose what is possible/probable.

Thanks for your interest, I've tried to summarize on sig line.

Just flashed a code 62, which is pointing toward the PCM. As the manifold sensor is new. Also not getting adequate boost, variable at best.

Has it gotta EGR?

No EGR, single solenoid for frequency valve
(believe ya'll call it a "Turbo wastegate solenoid")
BTW the crankcase vent filter ("Engine Depression Regulating Valve) is new also, crank case is pretty "fumey" with the tuna can pulled and 6.5 idling, the opening looks like a pot of hot black cowboy coffee.

Check the wires and pins in the MAP sensor for firm connection, no frays, bent pins, etc.

Remove intake duct from turbo inlet, see how shaft rotates, wiggles.

Crank engine, observe blade rotation at idle - keep sleeves, ties, hair, shop rags, leaves\sticks, wires, etc, outta the turbo inlet while running.

Won't develop Boost at idle or revving unloaded, so no need to try that

Can get a 30"-0-20psi gage from jcwhitney for 20 bucks.

EGT'll cost ya about 150.

Better yet - get Swedeburb's free GMTDScanBasic software for your laptop to read the PCM's idea of what's happening.

Try it - you'll like it.

Heavy black smoke is usually no boost/over fueling condition. Is it possible that the smoke could be blue? This can be oil. With a new turbo you'd have to say that it's going to be good? How about the oil return line on the bottom of the turbo. No kinks or restrictions?
The way your driving off of the line your not calling for any boost so no smoke. After your up to speed the engine is getting plenty of air unless you call for more with your right foot.
It sounds to me like the wastegate system is at fault here. The ECM supplies the ground side for this operation, take a look at the pins at the solenoid or maybe any rub spots going toward the ECM (it enters the cab under the A/C accumulator).
One more real easy test is to move the wastegate rod with the truck running at idle, you shouldn't be able to.

Checking connections this morning, tightened up MAP and codes are resolved. (KISS)

Fairly sure it's not oil. You're right it is a function of right foot, though a good pull up 25% grade brings steady streaming black smoke too. (not as much now as before vaccume leaks were fixed). If throttle eases, smoke clears. Pulling 8k+ pounds, it's doing the work.

I can move the wg linkage at idle, then it pulls forward and holds.

Questioning ECM, but leaning toward blaming Injection system for rough running and blacksmoke.

I'm putting it in a friendly shop (with scanner), do diagnostics (verifying inputs checking outputs); strong potential of rebuilding injectors & IP.

As you can probably tell I need this truck, it's my daily drive and tow vehicle for business, and daughter's competitive horses. (Which is worse?)

This is kind of :offtopic: but thinking of black smoke, my truck doesnt ever make any. I've never been around a diesel that didn't. It doesn't seem to matter what I do.:eek: No smoke. Any ideas or suggestions?

though a good pull up 25% grade brings steady streaming black smoke too.

Holy crap, I didn't think there was any such thing as a 25% grade!!!:eek:

If you can move the waste gate then maybe you don't have enough vacuum. that waste gate should not move at idle. IIRC (check FAQ) you need 15hg at the wastegate actuator

If you can move the waste gate then maybe you don't have enough vacuum. that waste gate should not move at idle. IIRC (check FAQ) you need 15hg at the wastegate actuator

Who are you talking to?

Could it be possible that the timing chain get worn over time and throw the timing off and be putting fuel and air into the cylinder at the wrong time and causing it to smoke? My truck smokes sometimes also but not all the time....does it worse when its hot and i have done everything to a stock setup that i know to do to help get cool air in there.

This is kind of :offtopic: but thinking of black smoke, my truck doesnt ever make any. I've never been around a diesel that didn't. It doesn't seem to matter what I do.:eek: No smoke. Any ideas or suggestions?

Unplug the vacuum line from the wastegate actuator. Then she'll smoke:D

Vaccume is reading 22" Hg, (recall: new WG solenoid, MAP)
Currently new Optical sensor (yes it was bad, 8 new injectors:
Runs more evenly pulling 8000#-that good, pulls pretty good, blows smoke pretty good too, Code 78 comes on at 2000-2600rpm light holds for up to a minute. If I let off the throttle smoke clears, no codes. If I can increase the revs light's out too.
Power comes at higher revs, with light smoke, granted I've got the "wrong" tires 265vs245 (I fell for that "looks wrong" syndrome) if I were to do it again I'd go stock with the tires, guess what, it runs best at 70 mph, which is slightly over our local limit... 10-15% interstate grades, (drop to third for those 22% local hills) Been getting 14-15mpg towing or not uncorrected for tire size.

I'm wondering if there's any chance the PCM could change this situation, our mechanic and I rather doubt it, but what else to do? Is there any point to advancing the timing, right now it's on the spec.

Hey, MtnDSL, I am wondering about the exhaust? My truck was doing the same thing, threw a code 78 unloaded going down the freeway if I put my foot into it. I don't pull anything yet, but I am going to be towing a 6,000 pound Travel trailer this summer. My truck was lacking power big time. I put a new exhaust on, and my transmission hickups were gone and I was laying rubber. Smoke dissappeared completely. Before the exhaust I could black out an entire freeway, especially going up those hills.

This is just a thought. :)

My truck is running alright right now.

Still throwing Code 78 (Wastegate). (Running Smooth now though)
Always occurs at steady load and 2000-2200rpm. :exactly: no smoke or other visible issues with Code.

Get steady stream of black smoke if romping on throttle, or pulling grade. (Can eliminate smoke by backing off)
Burning oil about 1 qt/30 gallons fuel. (Getting about 17mpg)
Turbo inlet face is clean, (meaning not excessive blow-by vapors)

All electronic systems checked out. Vaccum at 22" at WG, new MAP, new Freq valve, tubing o.k.

At what point do I question mechanical side? WG seems to seat properly (hear clank when flipping actuator engine stopped).

If I unhook vaccum line the wg actuator does not move (what opens gate?) ScanTech tool shows freq valve is reacting to load, MAP pressure up to 24" (I assume this includes atmospheric) Have no pressure guage yet.
:Nothing_f

Work done: rebuilt IP, 8 rebuilt injectors (along with 8 new glow plugs for good measure), rebuilt turbo (remember this is when the smoke started showing)

Thats a LOT of oil IMO. Maybe there is a problem with the seal between the center section and the turbine. When the turbo is up on boost, it is forcing oil out the exhaust leading to all the smoke and oil loss.

Bill

Vacuum line goes to center port of wg solenoid - wg line goes to side.

DTC78 never sets for low Boost, only high or over-Boost - will set after 18-22secs of over-Boost, at which time PCM will attempt to reduce Boost, then reduces fuel.

Check your Baro sensor, on the firewall

Check the wastegate vacuum motor diaphragm for leakage

I have the old MAP sensor, could I exchange it for the firewall BAR sensor, is the connection the same?

Vac pot seems to resist movement nicely ((acting like an air pump) it's new also)

Should there be a spring on the linkage, or does exhaust pressure open the WG?

BTW it is alot of oil, it never used oil before. But it's not smoking without load, and if the 78 is showing overpressure I'd imagine it's be blowing oil then too and I'd see it.

MAP and BARO sensors are not same item

BARO sensor outputs ~4.75v at 15psi baro - atmospheric pressire

MAP sensor outputs ~2.5v at baro.

Reduce pressure (vacuum) on the control side of the diaphragm, atmospheric pressure on the work side forces the wastegate shut against exhaust pressure - not spring-assisted.

Black smoke is unburned fuel - blue smoke is burning oil.

Black smoke is not enough air - not enough air is turbo is not Boosting.

Black smoke, turbo not Boosting could mean turbo is not spooling up.

Black smoke, turbo not spooling won't give DTC78 = too much Boost.

Unless - PCM is trying to cut back due to high IAT's - what it thinks is high IAT's.

Tie the wg shut as a test, note any difference

Check your IAT sensor - may be unplugged, wires broke, or failing.

All this does not address the oil usage.

It has to be more than coincidence that the oil disapearing and the smoking started at the same time...with the turbo install. Maybe he THINKS the smoke is black, but it's blue. I'm not sure.

The truck was fine before the turbo, no good after, right?

Just IMO

Bill

One problem at at time...................

Wired shut the WG this morning, didn't get any SES codes. Only ran about 10 miles though, did get up to 180F temperature.

Also had same smoke condition. I've been questioning my color judgement too, but it looks black, I've seen blue smoke this is blue. This ain't blue.

Also correct the exhaust did not smoke much before the turbo rebuild, it was rebuilt due to increasing oil leak and huge end play on fan.

Do get a puff of black on shift, light stream at light throttle, belching black on romping, and clear exhaust when cruising. Only getting 78 when cruising ca. 2200rpm.

When we checked with the scan tool Intake Air Temp was about 100 F which seems normal for Spring time cool days..

Check IAT again in the morning - it should be within couple deg of weatherman's indicated ambient.

After engine is up to operating temps, kill it, remove turbo intake duct, spin shaft with your fingers - should spin fairly freely for at least a second or two.

If not, may be too tight to spool properly - no Boost, black smoke, low power

It is just strange that you're getting black smoke, indicating low Boost, but the PCM keeps setting the high Boost alarm.

Lessee - a quart of engine oil per tank of fuel, excess black smoke at anything above normal throttle input, Diesel engine will burn diluted motor oil as fuel, and blow black smoke if mixture is excessive......

Pull the turbo or the upper plenum, see if engine oil is pumping out from behind the compressor wheel, where you would not see any indication on the inlet face - the plenum would be excessively oily..

If you pull the upper plenum, you can carefully start and run the engine, see if oil is pumping past the compressor-end seal.

You must ensure that nothing can be drawn into the lower intake plenum opening - screw the bolts thru a piece of screen wire, rabbit wire, etc, covering the opening.

On OBDI DTC 78 is boost out of range (low or high)

I've seen rebuilt turbos crap out the rear oil seal in a few thousand miles and start passing the black stuff down the pipe.

If you don't have excessive oil vapor when you pull the oil fill cap at idle, you're more likely passing it through the down pipe than burning it through the intake.

That is true, QM - but that will result in blue smoke.

Black smoke results from incomplee combustion - burning fuel consumes all the O2, flame goes out, temperature\pressure falls as piston drops in cylinder, baked fuel heads out the exhaust system, with inherent high EGT's, much billowing black pollution.

Hmmmmm..........just what those uneducateable Dodge newbies keep requesting, over on those forums):h .

Curiously I ran with SES, (probably code 78) today several minutes at a time and never sensed the PCM cutting back fuel. As before 2200 rpm, cruising it seems to hold SES until I raise or lower rpms.

Again, does low boost send 78's?
If PCM sensed overboosting wouldn't the throttle be reduced?

No - WGDC is reduced - if IAT climbs, then fuel is reduced

Yep no problem,



I traded it in on a '05 Dodge 2500 Cummins shakes it and 6 speed makes it go...:ro)

Congrats!!

:cool: