Well here I go again. Friday night I dropped chains with an '86 1/2 ton SWB GMC for Censored and giggles. This was the first time I have hooked to anything with this truck. This should be a no brainer, right? His truck has 4 inches of lift and 33's...thats it, nothing special. Well we hooked up on grass because nobody was wanting to tear anything up and pavement can be unforgiving on u-joints and IFS. I had nothing to lose, right? When we started, he gassed it...tires spinning...going left to right on top of the ground. Thats when I eased off the brake and eventually nailed it. Well, I pulled him a few feet and we quit...and I could not steerCensored :confuzeld !?!? This is my point from the whole "Dura72" thread, I should not have to spend $150 on somethig GM should make better in the first place. $191 for towing and labor, $69.24 for tie rods, $17.98 for sway bay links, $42.89 for a rental car, and $10.25 for lunch for me and my cousin to go get parts all afternoon. I guarantee I would not have had this happen with a straight axle OR GM making heavier duty parts. 1/2 ton or car parts do not belong on 2500HD's. I have seen the videos and am impressed with you guys out there pulling with IFS, but I don't think any of you can tell me you are doing it with stock parts...right? If I keep this truck, I'll buy the sleeves. If not, I have a very nice looking truck for sale...and yes I will still post pictures so everyone can see the fat meats on 12's!:ro) :bow:

yeah i would like to see those tires and rims

not that it is a cure all but by lowering the crap out of your tbars it takes a lot of the pressure off. That is what I do for truck pulling. I'm not into the whole bumper to bumper stuff.

If you're running wheels that wide with the t-bars cranked.. Poor tie rods :)

The wheels have about 6" less backspacing than factory...

That equals 6" more leverage that the tires have, that the tie rods have to overcome.. I can totally see why that happened.

Now, I do agree that the IFS front sucks.. I've shredded 500 worth of parts on my truck already..

I've got a '79 RC D60 already built for my truck. Need to get the ORU kit.. NOW :)

Well here I go again. Friday night I dropped chains with an '86 1/2 ton SWB GMC for Censored and giggles. This was the first time I have hooked to anything with this truck. This should be a no brainer, right? His truck has 4 inches of lift and 33's...thats it, nothing special. Well we hooked up on grass because nobody was wanting to tear anything up and pavement can be unforgiving on u-joints and IFS. I had nothing to lose, right? When we started, he gassed it...tires spinning...going left to right on top of the ground. Thats when I eased off the brake and eventually nailed it. Well, I pulled him a few feet and we quit...and I could not steerCensored :confuzeld !?!? This is my point from the whole "Dura72" thread, I should not have to spend $150 on somethig GM should make better in the first place. $191 for towing and labor, $69.24 for tie rods, $17.98 for sway bay links, $42.89 for a rental car, and $10.25 for lunch for me and my cousin to go get parts all afternoon. I guarantee I would not have had this happen with a straight axle OR GM making heavier duty parts. 1/2 ton or car parts do not belong on 2500HD's. I have seen the videos and am impressed with you guys out there pulling with IFS, but I don't think any of you can tell me you are doing it with stock parts...right? If I keep this truck, I'll buy the sleeves. If not, I have a very nice looking truck for sale...and yes I will still post pictures so everyone can see the fat meats on 12's!:ro) :bow:

you should have known better with your tires and lack of sleeves this was a no-brainer and the blame falls 100% on YOU!!! not GM.

And some say they (sleeves) arn't worth there price:eek: . So sorry about the bad luck. There has been lots of good folks (to many) down that road. They are a good piece of insurance for all occasions and unsuspected misfortunes.

here is my 2cents, If you was pulling out a hay wagon or grain wagon out of a field and had to put your IRS truck in 4wheel low lock what would be the differents. This truck is suppose to be a HEAVY DUTY truck with tie rods the same size as they are on a half ton, I would have to say the manufature is to blame.

There is no perfect truck. If Super Diesel sleeves fix this problem then so be it. Ford and Dodge may not have the tie rod problem but they ride like crap. There is no easy fix for that.

I've heard sleeve's referred to as " bling-bling " before....I refer to them as essential

Sleeves were one of the first things I put on my truck. It's an area that needs attention, we all accept that. Put them on and be done with it.

if you want to deal with the potential pitfalls of another , but very weak link in the GM front suspension , dont sleeve it , HOWEVER BE PREPARED TO EXPECT BENT TIE RODS, look at them they are 3/8 thick-:t

my sleeves, and manifold should be here today :ro)

You were warned
http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68855
It seems you went out and intentionally broke your front end and then came on here and put the blame elsewhere.

pulling wagons and hooking back to back are not the same thing as a wagon does not load the rearend and unload the front end causing more torque to placed on the steering components. I know of plenty of farmers who pull grain carts thru mud and other normal everyday farm terrain and have never hurt anything.

Yes, I was warned. BUT...by all of ya'll, NOT page whatever in the owners manual! I know I did this to myself. I just did not think it was possible on wet grass at 1 in the morning hooked to only 4 thousand lbs. I think hooking to a sled, truck, or a wagon are all initially the same. If any of you know what a scaffold wagon is, you know all of the weight is placed directly on the reciever hitch. For those not in the know, a scaffold wagon is used to get tobacco out of the field and to the barn. They are single axle and when hooked up takes weight off of the front end of the truck, just like pulling a sled when the weight box takes weight of the front end. To be honest, we had about 8ft of chain between us. The way I see it this should take a minimal amount of weight of either one of the trucks front end because of the leverage. We were not back to back with only a foot and a half of chain. Again, I belive GM has an inferior front end compared to a Ford or Dodge. As far as the ride, well I used to drive my 72 3/4 ton 4x4. You can imagine what that rides like. I don't want a truck to ride like a car - don't put car parts on my truck! I hate Fords and Dodges and all of this sucks. Super diesel should not have to work anymore because he should sell his idea for sleeves to GM, make 10% off of the profit for the rest of his life. I would. Sixinarow, I guess you are a Dodge man, or maybe just a Cummins man and could care less about it being a Dodge. Anyway, we think alike. HD does not stand for cavalier tie rods. HD does not stand for rides easy. HD SHOULD stand for military issue, come get some, my sh*t is NOT going to bend, break or fall to pieces when I call on it, period. Funny how trucks used to not have HD or super duty or heavy duty on the door. It was a truck, enough said. I going to take a breather b/c i'm getting fired up thinking about all this. I'm going to go wash it. At least it does look good. DMAX's are bad ass. Just make something that will hold up without buying other stuff. Good luck To GM with the next body style. And don't turn up these DMAX's anymore...they can't take it!!!

You think the owners manual needs to have a warning saying don't hook your truck? Are you the type of person who is glad the blow dryer has a warning on the cord that says "Don't use in the shower"?

Give me a break. I have a feeling GM couldn't anticipate half of the stupid stuff you are going to do with this truck.

Right ...don't hook your truck to a wagon. Whatever man. Read carefully.At the first of my thread I describe to a T what happened. I did no more than a brake stand in 4hi and then let off the brake and steadily, slowly mashed the pedal. "give you a break" That is exactly what you will get with these tie rods. Please...everyone...understand that I know stuff could happen and I opened myself up to it. But no one has yet to say "hey, you know what. GM should look a little further in to this. This is definately an issue. The competition is not having this problem. What are they doing right?" I'm Chevy to the bone and I don't have an endless bank acct to go out and try to tear stuff up. When I call on something though...I want it to go. Stupid, maybe. Fun, definately! Anticipate...they should. Truck pulling is not new. Neither is pulling a trailer or wagon. Weight is weight. You're telling me GM does not "ANTICIPATE" a 'vette being called on every now and then? 4WD is there to use, not look at. Please reply to that last statement especially, and don't tell me "well a truck is not a 'vette." No they are not. Trucks should be tougher than one. They sure as hell are as expensive as one. They should hold up - by themselves - and not with Mr.Super Diesels help (no offense to you). This is my point, AGAIN!!! These tie rods ARE NOT TOUGH. Make them stronger or do something different.

But no one has yet to say "hey, you know what. GM should look a little further in to this. This is definately an issue. These tie rods ARE NOT TOUGH. Make them stronger or do something different.
we all know it is an issue, thats why we told you to put sleeves on before you pulled a bone headed move, you did it anyway so the blame falls squarelly on your shoulders.


if you had a wagon hooked to your truck in the same location that you hooked back to back could you have gotten the wagon going without breaking anything? yes of couse you could have. Pulling a wagon is not the same as hooking back to back, so let that part go.

we all know it is an issue, thats why we told you to put sleeves on before you pulled a bone headed move, you did it anyway so the blame falls squarelly on your shoulders.


if you had a wagon hooked to your truck in the same location that you hooked back to back could you have gotten the wagon going without breaking anything? yes of couse you could have. Pulling a wagon is not the same as hooking back to back, so let that part go.
You are absolutetly right. My bonehead move has been addressed. I should not have done it. Now lets comment on GM's bonehead move their "weakest link" because they should not pass this off as HD material. As far as the whole hooked to a wagon scenerio, I've seen them bend doing that as well. No joke. My neighbor was pulling a 5th wheel up a snowy hill. He only put it in 4wheel just to make sure he did not lose momentum. When he got to his shed about a 1/2 mile later he could not steer. Normal everyday conditions for a truck, and it failed. I promise this is not made up just to prove a point. Cunningham GMC in Springfield, TN should be able to pull up the repair ticket on that one. If Super Diesel's parts are so great, and I'm convinced they are, then what is the hold up on GM putting these on @ the factory?

The way I see it dumb ass move on both my part and GM's.

I gotta agree with both sides. Dumb move? got what you had coming? Without a doubt. But your truck, your money, do as YOU wish.

GM dropping the ball by making a real wussy component. 100% Absolutely. Like the kid said, if SD can make a better tie rod, or a sleeve, than there is no reason GM shouldnt be able to make something equally as strong from the factory.

Now, GM doesn't imagine us doing half the things we do with our trucks. This is true to an extent but if you watch the latest chevy commercials theyve got duallys loaded down and towing cement mixers and launching the front tires 2 feet off the ground while hammering through a muddy construction site. You do the same to your truck, break your tie rods, and then have them cry abuse when you want it warrantied.

Amen to that...GM needs to make better parts if they're going to advertise it as an HD. I've changed out the sleeves early on because I was shown measly they were. Why even try to defend GM for putting these tie rods that are no bigger than my little finger on a 4WD HD? It just makes no sense.

Well, I think of the HD as standing for "Hates Dodge". But, the Ford and Dodge have their fair share of crappy steering components. Ask anybody with a Dodge how many track bars they've replaced. I have multiple friends that come to see at the parts store about every 20-40k miles and buy a new one. I sell tons of ball joints, tie rods, track bars, Ford automatic lock out parts etc, etc. I agree the GM tie rods are cheesy, but the big and stout Dodge and Ford parts wear out just as easy. I'd say that Fords have the market share in my area, then Chevy, then Dodge (just from my observation,) and I sell way more Dodge front end parts than the other two combined. (and I'm talking about later model '00+ vehicles) We sell very few GM parts unless the truck has 80-120K on it. When I broke my driveshaft (twisted the s*** out it) I didn't blame GM for making a weak driveshaft.

Just sell your truck and get a dodge or ford then. Seriously if you left the truck stock and used it as it was intended (to pull a trailer down the highway or out of a field, not hook to a sled/truck's rear bumper or do a boosted launch on asphault) you would not have any trouble. Unless you smacked a curb I don't think you would ever have any issue with the tie rods. I could be way off base, but I see tons of these trucks running down the road without their tires pointing at each other. If you want to use the truck outside the parameters of how it was intended it is YOUR OWN FAULT WHEN IT BREAKS.

BTW the reason dodge and ford have such large tie rods is because they span about 5.5 ft rather than 12 inches.

Just sell your truck and get a dodge or ford then. Seriously if you left the truck stock and used it as it was intended (to pull a trailer down the highway or out of a field, not hook to a sled/truck's rear bumper or do a boosted launch on asphault) you would not have any trouble. Unless you smacked a curb I don't think you would ever have any issue with the tie rods. I could be way off base, but I see tons of these trucks running down the road without their tires pointing at each other. If you want to use the truck outside the parameters of how it was intended it is YOUR OWN FAULT WHEN IT BREAKS.

BTW the reason dodge and ford have such large tie rods is because they span about 5.5 ft rather than 12 inches.

:exactly:

I gotta agree with both sides. Dumb move? got what you had coming? Without a doubt. But your truck, your money, do as YOU wish.

GM dropping the ball by making a real wussy component. 100% Absolutely. Like the kid said, if SD can make a better tie rod, or a sleeve, than there is no reason GM shouldnt be able to make something equally as strong from the factory.

Now, GM doesn't imagine us doing half the things we do with our trucks. This is true to an extent but if you watch the latest chevy commercials theyve got duallys loaded down and towing cement mixers and launching the front tires 2 feet off the ground while hammering through a muddy construction site. You do the same to your truck, break your tie rods, and then have them cry abuse when you want it warrantied.
I'm glad you understand my point, and you bring up another good one. These trucks are "Like A Rock" only to a point. The saying goes "A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link."

havent replaced a track bar yet or brakes, or ball joints, TIE RODS, or driveshaft. I don't hate chevy I have always owned three or so that why I can't understand why GM put this front end together with such a weak link. I never said ford or Dodge don't have there problems but, this thread was on TIE RODS

havent replaced a track bar yet or brakes, or ball joints, TIE RODS, or driveshaft. I don't hate chevy I have always owned three or so that why I can't understand why GM put this front end together with such a weak link. I never said ford or Dodge don't have there problems but, this thread was on TIE RODS
Thank you.

Please look at the thead on the solid front axle in suspension & steering. Especially anyone that may works at or knows someone that works at the GM proving grounds!!! Here is the answer, I just saw this and hopefully there will be pics soon.

Just sell your truck and get a dodge or ford then. Seriously if you left the truck stock and used it as it was intended (to pull a trailer down the highway or out of a field, not hook to a sled/truck's rear bumper or do a boosted launch on asphault) you would not have any trouble. Unless you smacked a curb I don't think you would ever have any issue with the tie rods. I could be way off base, but I see tons of these trucks running down the road without their tires pointing at each other. If you want to use the truck outside the parameters of how it was intended it is YOUR OWN FAULT WHEN IT BREAKS.

BTW the reason dodge and ford have such large tie rods is because they span about 5.5 ft rather than 12 inches.

Theres no way in hell I will ever sell my truck. I love this truck and Chevys are the only trucks I have ever owned, except one Ford that was actually my old man's site truck, not even mine. Oh yeah, and this little ranger turd I just picked up for a grand while my truck is in the shop. Our Duramaxes, IMO, ride better, look better, have better interiors, and are all around far better, for me, than the Fords or Dodges. But no matter how much you love the truck you cannot deny the fact that the TIE RODS are wimpy. Case closed.

jmg343 :beerchug: here's to you! :Handshake Speaking of these smiley faces I found, imagine this as a Bud Light radio ad. "Here's to you Mr.I'm going to put 3/8 inch tie rods on a DMAX HD guy!" "If it were not for you, we would not have this thread." And then in the background the girls sing "Don't use low lock!" Then the guy who invented "jorts" jumps in a DMAX throws it up in low and nails it.:grd: Then as Mr.jorts inventor has a sad look on his face as Bigfoot drives by and Bob Chandler is just shaking his head. (Bigfoot and Bud both being from St.Louis). Bad scenerio for us Chevy guys, but oh well. Guess I'm going to give SD a shout :help: and get some sleeves. I'll check back on monday - have a good weekend - I won't do anything stupid again - and will that one guy please hit us all back on what GM should "anticipate" someone doing in a vehicle???:stirthepo

Wow three pages. I thought this one would have only been about 4 posts, no more. Okay here is whats been repeated over and over again: He f#@*ed up and chevy has a weak link. The points been made isnt it time to let this one go.

rick

Theres no way in hell I will ever sell my truck. I love this truck and Chevys are the only trucks I have ever owned, except one Ford that was actually my old man's site truck, not even mine. Oh yeah, and this little ranger turd I just picked up for a grand while my truck is in the shop. Our Duramaxes, IMO, ride better, look better, have better interiors, and are all around far better, for me, than the Fords or Dodges. But no matter how much you love the truck you cannot deny the fact that the TIE RODS are wimpy. Case closed.If that's the way you feel good for you. I would never sell my truck either because I believe it is the best truck made, but to say the stock tie rods should be made way bigger is not necessarily true. If a truck is left stock and used as it was designed it would not be a problem. My dad has over 40k miles on his 03 dooley many of those pulling heavy loads and his stock tie rods are still straight. Why should GM waste money putting massive tie rods on these trucks because someone wants to drag race or sled pull with it? I will probably end up buying some SD sleeves because I plan on drag racing my truck some, but that is because I am doing something that the truck is not designed to do.

Using your logic I can say the allison transmission is a piece of crap because when I jack the power up to 450 hp at the wheels it won't hold. There are upgrades out there, like the SC V, that will hold it. Why doesn't GM do that from the factory?

Case closed!

Why should GM waste money putting massive tie rods on these trucks because someone wants to drag race or sled pull with it?



So we dont have to :muahaha: :lol:

Sleeves are like 80 bucks... it will be all right

You should have done some research before pulling. Ive known for years that was the weak link. I abuse the crap out of my truck and never had a problem with my sleeves. The sleeves are pefectly fine for the stock truck that GM designed them for.

While I agree you risk breaking something by hooking to another truck; GM's tie rods are pretty crappy. But Shep is right. What if you get a tractor stuck out in the field, and have to hook your truck to it to pull it out. It should be able to hold that, and him not have to worry about the tie rod's. Im not saying this because I own a Dodge, but if you think it was fine for GM to make them that weak, then whatever.

And for the record, i havent replaced my track bar. ):h

Eric

They are designed as the weak link. YOuve got to have one some where.

OK, I'll get the sleeves. How far are you guys talking about lowering the front end? All the way down or level? The *****ing is over - lets talk about pulling! One other thing. When I have seen the tie rods go, the wheels shake violently just before. Do ya'll think an aftermarket steering stabilizer will help? What is strapping a front end?

If you run front weights you wont need to strap. Just lower the bars all the way and run all you can up front. The idea being to keep the tie rods as straight as possible so that they dont push upwards on the center link. The stock CL is curved on the end which give the rods a lot of leverage when they push up. A Superdiesel CL is straight which takes away the leverage. BTW strapping is straping the center link to the lower cross member to keep it from rocking.. I'm sure someone has a pic.

They are designed as the weak link. YOuve got to have one some where.

Yeah, but traction is supposed to be the weak link. If you dont let out quick enough if you break your tie rods, you can tear up all kinds of stuff(CV joints, front diff, etc). They shouldnt be that weak.

Eric

:exactly: This is probably the most intelligent thought in this whole thread!

Shouldnt you be over at pavementsucks.com or your own website. j/k thats a good point.

the chevy ifs has always been "weak" i have done countless balljoints,
tierod ends, idler arms, from the 88's on up,my gasser dodge has had many "trac bars" or panhard bars, and the upper and lower link arms are not so durable either,..... thats why i stopped lifting my daily drivers, that only means you can get it into an even worse situation before it breaks or just gets stuck if your lucky.problem is my trail truck is always torn apart.my moto is if you brake it make it better, and be sure you have a cool story to tell about when you broke it.

big tires and rims, were the culperate, not what he was doing. i agree gm put a cheapo part on an HD truck, but if the truck was stock, it wouldn't have broke.