Even though SPICER's very generaous contribution to our knowledge of airfilters is still preliminary, I've decided to put the UNI back in a plastic bag and on the shelf until the info is sorted out. Before I did, though, I held it up to the sun. There really are a LOT of pinholes in those things. The NAPA Gold filter I replaced it with showed no pinholes at all. I'll be changing my oil as soon as I get an analysis kit from George. This batch will all have been UNI miles. I'm interested to see what my silica levels are. They were somewhat elevated last time using an Amsoil sponge, which is why I switched in the first place.

TC

Yo Mamma raised a bright kid http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif Mine is still a sittin' too ~ http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif Me beginst to think we may become victims to hi tech marketing when the ol' ways are still the best ways. Let us know what Geo says ~

Paper is hard to beat when it comes to cheap and reliable filtration------------------------Phil------------(JMHO)

I was going to buy one of the after market filters myself, but after all this I'm stickin to paper.

How does the NAPA filter fair against GM's filter?

I've decided to put the UNI back in a plastic bag and on the shelf until the info is sorted out.


Exactly what I did last weekend.

How does the NAPA filter fair against GM's filter?

This is a good question! The answer is we don't know.

According to Ken from Testand Corp. (the company that MAKES the test stands that perform the SAE/ISO air filter tests), a COMPLETE air filter analysis can be done for about $1500.

If I was a manufacturer of an aftermarket filter, The FIRST thing I would want to know is "how does it compare to the others?" $1500 would be a CHEAP investment for data that would PROVE my filter was the BEST!

If I planned to spend thousands on marketing, and I knew from my SAE/ISO test results that my filter was the BEST at filtering efficiency, I would BLAB and BRAG and BOAST with my fabulous numbers provided by the SAE/ISO test! So where are these numbers???? Some DO use their SAE/ISO numbers on their advertising, but <font size="4">SELECTIVELY</font>. For instance, FRAM uses this data, but only a portion of the data.

The SAE/ISO test will give you dirt holding CAPACITY, EFFICIENCY, and AIR FLOW RESTRICTION. The only PORTION of the data FRAM chooses to share with us is the DIRT HOLDING CAPACITY portion. But how did it do on the EFFICIENCY portion? They don't choose to share this. The reason they don't share it is not likely that there was no room on the box! And what about the other manufacturers? Why do they not even MENTION the SAE/ISO tests on their filters? Hmmmmm?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

The ONLY manufacturer that has advertised their efficiency numbers from SAE/ISO is Baldwin. Go to their website at www.baldwinfilter.com/products/air.html. They are brave enough to even show that the OE is 99.95% efficient and the Baldwin is 99.93% efficient! This is DATA!!!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I started this study out of curiosity and frustration. I am a man of principle and I don't like to see people misled by irresponsible and false claims for the sake of profit. I challenge ANY aftermarket manufacturer to do an ISO/SAE test side by side with the OE. Until they are willing to do this and share the independently provided data, I say Hogwash to the inflated "claims". But since I like science, I will conduct future tests with objectivity in mind. SPICEREdited by: SPICER

And Spicer does have a NAPA(Wix) filter to test.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

My paper is back in also. Only had 3,000 miles on the UNI so maybe it didn't hurt anything.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

Dang. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


I was workin on the truck over the weekend and was lookin at the AFE and how dirty it looks in a very short time. I was kinda thinking the same thing.... Now Im really leaning back to stock....

Starting to sound like opening up the factory airbox is the best thing to do.


Spicer,


Any chance of doing a tube test also? Perhaps the corrugation in the factory tubing effects the airflow and maybe their is a possibility that improvements can be made their. Just a thought. Not really trying to create more work. It would be your choice of course. We do appreciate all the effort you've put in to this.


Thanks,


Chuck

NO after market HERE!!! If they were soooo good my tractors &amp; combines would have them on STOP don't think so. Just my .02http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Starting to sound like opening up the factory airbox is the best thing to do.


Spicer,


Any chance of doing a tube test also? Perhaps the corrugation in the factory tubing effects the airflow and maybe their is a possibility that improvements can be made their. Just a thought. Not really trying to create more work. It would be your choice of course. We do appreciate all the effort you've put in to this.


Thanks,


Chuck





No, I have no way of doing this. All data that I have ever seen has shown that the truck gets plenty of air. Trucks on dyno tests have shown no improvement with the filter removed, so I duobt corugation has any ill effects either. There are systems (AFE maybe) that use a smooth intake tube. Maybe someone has data, but my bet is the design of our intake is more than adequate even at VERY high flows.


That reminds me, the airbox I have on the test stand has a filter life indicator on it. (This is the same filter life indicator we all have on our stock airbox). It detects vacuum that is excessive. When the filter is plugged, it shows RED and indicates that you need to replace the filter.


When I had the unit running I tried to get the filter life indicator to show red. I nearly had the ENTIRE inlet covered before it moved! In other words, our trucks get adequate air even with a very dirty filter.


From the experts I trust, I have been told the WORST thing to do is replace a paper filter too often. Paper filters IMPROVE their filtering efficiency with time/use/dirt loading. SPICER

Sounds like your already a step ahead of me! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


We'll keep watching, and thanks again.

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<TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNABLE="off">WOW!!!!! IT GETS MORE CONFUSING EVERY DAY. GUESS IM GLAD ITS STILL STOCK. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif</TD></TR>
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Starting to sound like opening up the factory airbox is the best thing to do.


Spicer,


Any chance of doing a tube test also? Perhaps the corrugation in the factory tubing effects the airflow and maybe their is a possibility that improvements can be made their. Just a thought. Not really trying to create more work. It would be your choice of course. We do appreciate all the effort you've put in to this.


Thanks,


Chuck





IMHO being that the wastegate is what actually limits the max airflow into the engine, there will be very little gain if any with any form of intake modifications. Remember guy's this thing has a blower and the same rules that apply with a NA motor may not be as important here.

It would have been cheaper for UNI to give me my money back wouldnt it?

Hey UNI 2 words = Ripple effect

PC I have to agree with you.


Why UNI blew this off and let their dealers and loyal customers twist in the wind is beyond me.


I am still running an Amsoil but will probably put the paper filter back in, any HP loss is minimal. I am waiting for SPICER to test the Amsoil, and would rather not risk it, so paper for now.


What are some good paper filters? I assume the Delco is one.

PC I have to agree with you.


Why UNI blew this off and let their dealers and loyal customers twist in the wind is beyond me.


I am still running an Amsoil but will probably put the paper filter back in, any HP loss is minimal.* I*am waiting for*SPICER*to test the Amsoil, and would rather not risk it, so paper for now.


What are some good paper filters?* I assume the Delco is one.

I had an Amsoil filter at one time. I had an oil analysis done and it showed high silicon (dirt). I was then told to try a UNI. I bought the Amsoil because I was convinced that it was better than paper. It wasn't. Now the same vendor who sold me the Amsoil was ready to sell me a UNI!

I refused to be naive and insisted that I see some simple SAE data on the filter before I dropped another $50 on a filter that can't live up to its propoganda and marketing. It was a combination of no data provided and CONTINUED overinflated and misleading claims on these forums that forced me to start my own testing. I don't like being taken advantage of, and I don't want to see others get taken either.

I will continue to ask for data. All manufacturers have it. Some just don't want to share it. More than likely their secret IS NOT that their filters are superior.

So far I have tested a used UNI. I will run a new UNI vs. a new OE. I have a new Amsoil and a used K&N. These will be tested sometime in the near future.

As for a good paper filter, I would stick with the OEM. I have seen A LOT of paper filters and NONE look better made than the OE. AND NONE of the aftermarket paper filters have data that supports better filtration than the OE.
SPICEREdited by: SPICER

I've had oiled foam filtration in my truck since day one. Oil analysis has turned in excellent silicon numbers since about the 4th or 5th oil change, and continues to do so. I presently have a Uni and return silicon of 5 and 7 over the last 4 samplings.





While it's true that I run bypass oil filtration, my iron is still in the 20-30 range as it always has been except for the ones where I ran Amsoil 5w30...

I ran a K&N FIPK intake system on my last 4Runner for most of the 110K miles I owned it. Even though I ran it in very dusty conditions, the intake tube was always white glove clean and I never had to add oil between changes. I also couldn't see light through the filter media. Nevertheless, on recommendations by people whose opinion I still respect, when I bought by Duramax, I replaced the factory filter not with another K&N, but an Amsoil filter. The first OA done after a full change interval with the Ams filter revealed unacceptably high silica levels. So, I switched to a UNI, which, I will admit, looked like a first class piece of production next to the Ams. I haven't done an OA with the UNI yet, but I will as soon as the kit arrives from AV Lube (any day now). Then I'll have a back to back comparison between the two filters. I'm running the NAPA Gold for now and will through a full change interval. So far, my truck has never seen dirt. If the levels are high again, I would strongly suspect filter porosity. I'm curious to learn the results. Did I mention how much I hate snake oil and those who make it?

TC

There is a trend we see in most Dmax oil analysis that shows declining silicon numbers that begin at a level that I would consider scary high...





Change oil early and often until silicon numbers become reasonable.

I put an original black "oily couch cushion" Amsoil oiled foam air filter on my truck in 2001 at 4,000 miles. I started doing regular oil analysis at 30,000 miles and my silicon numbers have been:


12 ppm @ 30,010 miles


9 @ 38,280


7 @ 45,494


6 @ 52,656


7 @ 61,967


5 @ 67,279


6 @ 75,372


The original air filter was cleaned and reoiled at 38,280


It was replaced with a "new" blue-gasket Amsoil filter at 67,279 which is in the box now and will be cleaned/reoiled/reinstalled in 1,500 miles when I do my 82,500 mile service. I don't see the problem and don't need no steenkin' paper.http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big%20Smile.gif

..There is a trend we see in most Dmax oil analysis that shows declining silicon numbers that begin at a level that I would consider scary high...

I believe the same can be said for copper too ...

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif Edited by: jbplock

Idle-Chatter,


Just keep in mind that silicon levels in your oil are a function of: How much dirt/silicon is introduced AND how much of that dirt gets past the filter.


If you have low silicon levels then EITHER your filter is doing a good job OR you just don't see much dirt OR you have a bypass oil filter cleaning up an otherwise high silicon level. If the Amsoil proves to be less efficient than the OE, then your silicon levels could be even lower. SPICER

Well, I've seen mucho dusty and dirty conditions in many miles over many different states and seasons. If my low silicon numbers are a result of a combination of my air filter AND my bypass oil filtration - then the bottom line is that I am effectively preventing AND removing harmful silicon from my lubricating oil as certified by my oil analyses and that is the ultimate goal, is it not? I reiterate that I'm sticking with what works for me.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

My UNI is out and the paper is back in. UMP filter on the way. If there is any doubt about the effectiveness of the air filtration then I am going with proven equipment - in this case paper. UNI - consider me a ripple!

No 100% garbage butterfly effect for me, it's always been paper.