Truck may have gelled up this week. I have used PS for like 9 years no problems except for this week. GM says use Stanadyne. It's tough to give up on PS but have heard of some possible problems with it. Opinions?

I have used ps diesel kleen for about 9 months with no problems and changed the orginal fuel filter @ 15000 miles,the tech who changed the filter said I could have waited longer?

I used Stanadyne for my first 5k miles then changed to PS and have been there for 30K miles. Compared filters and could not tell any difference. Never had any gelling problems. I switch between the two different PS additives depending upon summer or winter.

I have no idea if one is better than the other but I have used stanadyne since day one with no problems.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66786&page=8

Peep this thread.:ro)

PS for 33k and counting, changing the fuel filter every 10k. Zero problems.

Thanks for the link SCE T-roy. After reading a little I think I might switch to Stanadyne. Problem is availability. I don't know where I can get it in my area. I will have to do some research. Any place to order it cheap online?

A few weeks ago, it was down to 23 deg below zero here, been using the PS in the white bottle... no problems. It is more readily available around here than Stanadyne, and considerably cheeper to-boot. GM might endorse the Stanadyne by NAME, but they say that what ever you use, IT MUST CONTAIN NO ALCOHOL. PS does not contain any alcohol, so I'll stick to using it. Cheers.

I get mine here.
http://www.blueridgediesel.com/specials1.htm
Unless a supporting vendor here has it & then I will switch

I will second the NO ALCOHOL comment. My brother is a diesel mechanic and says that the additives with alcohol are no good, as they just dry out the fuel system. I have been using Stanadyne with no problems since truck was new.

I use PS Diesel Kleen "silver bottle since it doesn't get cold here". 17k miles and haven't had any problems

I have used Stanadyne in my truck since the very first tank of fuel and have had ZERO problems. This truck is always outside and the coldest temperature so far for a cold start was +5ºF with no problem. I have never used my block heater or the winter front. I always get my fuel from high volume truck stops.

Here is more info on stanadyne's fuel additives....
http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=947735#post947735

GM stresses NOT to use any additives that contain alcohol or water emulsifiers. They stress that if you plan to use additives to use additives with DEMULSIFIERS.

Power service here.. and not problem. Easier to get and have run PS in numerous diesels!

I am still using (Rotella DFA) until this gallon is gone. They have discontinued it so I will probably go with (Power Service) when this jug is empty.

I use PS in the white bottle in the winter. No additive the rest of the year. I do use premium diesel. No problems with 91000 miles.

I have been running PS (grey bottle) for the entire winter and adding Howes antigel when it is below 0F. I run #2 to -20F and a blend of #1 and #2 when it is colder that that with no problems. Apparently the big rigs swear by Howes when the temp dips, and it does that plenty up here in AK. I was running a #1/#2 blend with 1/4c of Howes and a few oz of PS per tank when we hit -57 this winter, without incedent.

I used ps and had no problems. I found a post on here that compared several different ones and ps was worse than diesel alone as far as lube so I switched to stanadyne.

I used ps and had no problems. I found a post on here that compared several different ones and ps was worse than diesel alone as far as lube so I switched to stanadyne.

I think the research you’re referring to can be found here: http://www.stanadyne.com/new/ppt/showfile.asp?id=1156 (http://www.stanadyne.com/new/ppt/showfile.asp?id=1156) The tests, though sponsored by Stanadyne, were done by Southwest Research Institute, one of the most reputable labs in the country and is in no way connected to Stanadyne or any other additive company. It might be pointed out that FPPF Lubricity formula wasn’t included though, amoung others, PS and Howes were. I find it interesting that Stanadyne is the only one that’s been recommended by GM, Racor, Ford, VW, Deere, AM General, Navistar, Volvo, and Caterpillar.

I’m not sure how indicative it is of the effectiveness or quality of an additive that a truck has been run on it for X amount of miles with no problems. I live in what’s got to be the Duramax capital of the world with the place packed with snowbirds during the winter hauling 5th wheel RVs and people hauling their boats over from LA and SD in the summer. For my own curiosity I often ask the guy filling up next to me if he uses an additive and 90% of the time the answer is no. A friend is on his 2nd Duramax after more than 200k on the first with not a problem and it never had an additive near it. As for Power Service working great in diesels in the past, did they run the high pressure Bosch injection system that’s in the Duramax? GM can void your warranty if you bring it in with an injector system failure and you tell them you’ve been using Power Service which contains an emulsifier. Is lying to them the way to handle it?? Their 911 product is loaded with alcohol. Just another opinion to add to the stack.

Thanks for the link SCE T-roy. After reading a little I think I might switch to Stanadyne. Problem is availability. I don't know where I can get it in my area. I will have to do some research. Any place to order it cheap online?

Check around and find a place that services or sells large industrial generators. I get mine at a diesel generator place for $40 a case (perf. formula),

GM can void your warranty if you bring it in with an injector system failure and you tell them you’ve been using Power Service which contains an emulsifier. Is lying to them the way to handle it?? Their 911 product is loaded with alcohol. Just another opinion to add to the stack.

Power Service says it doesn't contain a emulsifier or demulsifier:


Diesel Fuel Supplement and Diesel Kleen are neither a demulsifier or an emulsifier, however they contain solubilizers. Our Diesel Fuel Supplement (DFS) contains a deicer that is intended to keep the water in the fuel from falling out and to help reduce the likelihood of Fuel Filter Icing. Warm fuel will carry more water than cold fuel. When it gets cold some water can fall out of the fuel, or the water separator can squeeze out this water which can freeze on the filter face and cause the fuel to stop flowing through the filter even though the fuel is still liquid. This is Fuel Filter Icing and is often mistaken for fuel gelling. The deicer in DFS can also help to solubilize small amounts of water in the fuel system. If too much water is in the fuel tank it can overpower the deicer in the Diesel Fuel Supplement. Diesel Kleen is a



non-winter additive and it is intended to give you the very best injector cleaner, cetane, lubricity, fuel stability package and corrosion protection. It will not do much for water and it is not intended to. The injector cleaner is strong enough to clean up a dirty injector to the spray pattern of a new injector. The Cetane Boost will help your engine start quicker, reduce emissions and improve engine performance. The lubricity package will bring the lubricity of the fuel up to the standard recommended by the fuel pump manufacturers. It meets the N14 Standard for corrosion and it will stabilize the fuel. Diesel Kleen does not contain a demulsifier or an emulsifier. I would recommend using Diesel Kleen in the non-winter months because it has more injector cleaner and cetane boost than the Diesel Fuel Supplement. It will help with a water problem and will also solubilize small amounts of water. It is not a quick fix for a lot of free water.



Our Diesel 911 is a water solubilizer. It will take free water and combine it with the fuel so when you look at the fuel it is clear. Diesel 911 will combine with the fuel first and it will also keep the water in the fuel from falling out. It then will act upon the free water in the system. If the fuel is dry and is not saturated with water, it will pick up more free water than when the fuel is wet. A fuel solubilizer will not suspend water in the fuel as water droplets. Diesel 911 also contains a lubricity package to help increase the fuels lubricity since water can adversely affect lubricity. It is not a quick fix but it will solubilize a lot more water than DFS or Diesel Kleen.

There is a lot of misinformation about additives and water dispersants. When you use an additive like our Diesel Fuel Supplement or Diesel Kleen these are mixtures of additives in a package. These various chemicals have to be balanced so they will not separate in the container. It doesn't matter if you use our additives or one of our competitors, a good water dispersant takes a lot of room in the additive package. If you add a strong detergent, strong cetane, excellent lubricity, corrosion, top of the line antigel, and stability to the additive package there is not much room left for a water dispersant. A good multiple benefit package will always have a weak water dispersant package. It is a matter of chemistry. The only way to get a strong water dispersant is to get an additive whose top attribute is to control water like our Diesel 911.

Our additives, when used as directed, will not void an engine warranty, however I will tell you that the engine manufacturers, including GM, do not want you to use a solid water dispersant on a regular bases. Diesel Fuel Supplement and Diesel Kleen are made to be used with every fill up and will not void any engine warranty when used as directed. They will also take care of normal condensation and free water. A water dispersant like Diesel 911 or any other market water dispersant is recommended by the engine manufacturers only when you have a water problem. Most of our competitors have a much harsher water dispersant product than we do. We add Cetane Boost and lubricity to our Diesel 911 so it will not be harsh on the fuel pumps and injectors. Also, please be careful when using any water dispersant and do not exceed the recommended treat rate. They can help control water however they also have their limitations.

Hopefully this will help you to understand how our additives work.






Best regards,

Brian Wilson
Technical Advisor
Compliance Coordinator
(800)643-9089
bwilson@powerservice.com

Power Service Products, Inc.

Has anybody here ever tried PRI-D (Diesel) or PRI-G (Gas)?. I have heard that it is a great additive but I have never found a place to buy it. Guess I ought`a do the Google on it.

[quote=div4gold;976169]Power Service says it doesn't contain a emulsifier or demulsifier:


The long quote from PS is an old one they've used for some time. I read it many months ago. I’ve also spoken with them on the phone before and as soon as some very elemental questions were asked, they wrapped themselves in the old “proprietary information” statement. To their credit, Stanadyne publishes their formula, listing every chemical in it and to what percent.

Taken from the Power Service Website: (regarding the 911 formula I referred to above) “Contains the type of non-harmful alcohols recommended by diesel engine manufacturers for removal of water in diesel fuel systems”. Which company recommends that? Do they refer to primary, secondary or tertiary alcohols? Which are not harmful? As to the definition of “solubilizer”, I suggest looking it up in a chemical dictionary. It will be quite difficult to find in most.

I'll use the word solubilize in the sense of resulting in a clear solution. GM, Racor and others say to use demulsifiers, not solubilizers.

If you’ll put a measured amount of diesel in a beaker or clear glass, lets say 250ml and then stir in 0.63 ml of Power Service (White bottle), which is the ratio indicated to use on the PS bottle, then put a drop or two of distilled water and stir it up, you’ll find the diesel with PS won’t dissolve it. Stir it most everyday for a month and it still won’t nor will the drop decrease in size. If you add a larger amount of PS 911 to the diesel and add a bit more water, stir then let settle, then shine a small flashlight, in a semi dark room, through the side of the glass, you’ll notice the light beam will reflect off of the colloidal emulsion of water, solubilizer, and diesel (place the penlight or small flashlight against the glass). It will not be a clear solution. Even if it were a clear solution, would it stay that way when the temp goes down while the truck sets overnight? Will the hydrogen bonds holding the water in solution hold at the conditions met at the injector tips? Don’t think so. If I’m wrong please correct me. If the solution isn’t divided to the point of each (or very few) of the water molecules being separated from each other, there will be steam forming at a very rapid expansion rate and at very high pressures at the injector tips.

The new OEM Racor filter elements are chemically treated to demulsify and block any water. I understand the concept of finely dividing the water to a point of being in a clear solution and it does evoke an intriguing image in the mind. Wouldn’t that be the ideal that the chemistry team at Chevron would want when they formulated their “Performax” blend? It’s a blend of diesel with some water in it with the goal of lowering temperatures enough to result in lower NOX emissions in older busses and trucks. There blend is said to look like milk.

Several months ago I performed some simple experiments with Stanadyne, Power Service, and FPPF (couldn’t find Primrose) in regards to solubilizing water in diesel for my own curiosity. I’ll see if I can find the old notes and write it up and perhaps post it sometime. I think some will be quite surprised.

I don’t sell anything though looking back this does sound like quite a sales pitch for Stanadyne. :D I’ve simply found the subject interesting. People should use what they feel is best. We’re all learning. Amusing enough is that with as much concern some of us place on additives, it seems that most diesel owners I’ve asked don’t use anything.



bmr7c: One of the DP sponsors, Merchant Automotive carries Stanadyne

I've used Stanadyne forever plus Redline, works for me.

PC's outta town, so on his behalf.....Stanadyne equals water and rust.....

So Remember, its all about what you feel comfortable with......

Went up to Maine 2 weeks ago. Traveling about 4 hours @ 75mph @ 11F.Got off exit, engine started running like Censored .Went to NAPA and got some PS911, filled up tank, waited about a half an hour,problem solved on my way.Been using Stanadyne PF since day one.Got up next morning(-5F)took bottle of Stanadyne out of tool box,TOTALLY SOLID!.Needless to say I am now running FPPF polarpower(With a bottle of 911 in my tool box just in case) no more stanadyne for me!

Long story short. It's like antifreeze. It won't gel when mixed with #2 but will when unmixed in the bottle. Antifreeze starts to slush @ -10 when pure iirc but when mixed with water can go to -50.

Long story short. It's like antifreeze. It won't gel when mixed with #2 but will when unmixed in the bottle. Antifreeze starts to slush @ -10 when pure iirc but when mixed with water can go to -50.


Understand that,but my fuel gelled at 11 degrees with a whole bottle of stanadyne mixed in.

Now that's not good.

Thanks for all the great info on both PS and Stanadyne you all have provided. Now I am really confused. Just kidding. I'm going with Stanadyne. One good reason is because it is dealer recommended and will eliminate any question of warranty down the road, and the other reason is reputation. Plus Kenedy's comment that PS is the Fram of conditioners.

One can get very confused about additives- So I just stay with Stanadyne. Gives me peace of mind not worrying about going from product to product.