I thought that I would start a new topic with this information. I posted my dyno results on another thread here (banks six gun with speed loader, feels slower than bully dog (http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6649&PN=2)). The Banks numbers were so underwhelming that I talked to the people at Banks to find out why. I spoke with a person who does their dyno testing and faxed over my results with the graphs. He told me that they have had a problem with some of their switches that adjust the power levels, and my results are consistent with what they have seen for a truck like mine running on power level 3, not 6. This would explain a lot!

I also got into a discussion on how they do their testing compared to how I did mine. Banks prefers to do what he called a step down test in which they run the truck at a certain RPM and then load the dyno in steps requiring the engine to make more and more power to keep that RPM. The test I performed, and think is more common, is to run the truck thru an acceleration test. Programming for acceleration versus torque back-up are two different things. This would explain why there are differences in feel between boxes.

I have had the Edge Juice in my truck long enough to get a good feel for how it performs. It is great! I will swap in the Banks Six-Gun and Speed-Loader when the new switch arrives and let you know what I think. I won’t be able to dyno test right away. I will try to make the Dyno Day at K&amp;S Diesel on May 22<SUP>nd</SUP> to get hard numbers.

Don’t give up on Banks yet! They have been around too long and have an excellent track record of quality products. Admittedly I feel that they have been more conservative in their products targeting “older” folks who want to tow a trailer and not have to worry about durability issues with their vehicles. There is no shame in that. I do know that Banks is planning to expand on their “Performance Parts” line for the people who want to take their trucks to the extreme. The knowledge is there, and hopefully there will be a market to support such products.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun:

how do ya know if your switch is bad? My six gun/ speedloader is very weak incomparison to the juice I had

A switch is very simple to test. All it does is connect two points together so if you have an DVM set it to check ohms then put the two probes on one wire each on the back of the switch. On most switches you will see several connection points with one in the center. As you rotate the switch the connection will move from the center post to each of the outer post. The meter will read the connection. Once you find the connection move the switch and the outer probe to a new post and find the connection again. Each switch position should connect to a different spot. If they do then the switch is fine.


Also your dyno graphs look pretty much the same as others that have test the 6 gun.Edited by: Diesel Tech

I haven't seen your dyno graphs, where are they?





I ran mine on levels 1-6 and back to 5, then 6, and saw changes every time. The results were solid, but less than stellar. As for driving impressions, no comment.





I'm still waiting to find out how it can be run on a 6 speed truck, OR an auto who does not want the TCC wires tapped...

Hardware design problems with those new fangled analog switches. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

The actual graphs were not posted, only the results.

JK check your fax machine. It should be spitting out a bunch of paper after I stop getting the busy signal.

DT thanks for the idea. I hooked up my Ohm meter and here are the results. I will let you know if the new switch they send me is any different, but according to your theory, which makes sense, this switch should be good.

1) 27.90
2) 12.12
3) 6.67
4) 3.74
5) 2.05
6) 0.88

Huck

In all of the tests done on the Six-Gun in this forum, they have run it through levels 1-6. On each level, the torque and hp numbers are different. Meaning that, so far, all of the switches have worked. This reminds me of when Banks said that the procedure was different when setting up the switch for the speedloader. First it was with the engine off, then it was with the engine running. End result? Nada. Same thing here. If you look at the hp and torque graphs right on you Six-Gun box, do you see how it drops like a *(&amp;^&amp;*^% after 1900rpm? Hp and torque down low don't make a fast truck. If you look at every other module/programmer graph, the hp and tq keep climbing UP, while the Banks drops DOWN. Trust me, the new switch will not do anything. Since I'm parking mine in a week for the summer, I'll wait it out and buy their "RACE BOX" they said they're working on. I'm not trying to put down Banks, but it's just not a fast module. I'm sure it works awesome pulling heavy loads with no worries, but I just need something that's FAST.

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<TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNABLE="off"> I'M JUST SITTN BACK AND WATCHING. I REALLY LIKE THE SAFETY OF THE BANKS. I HOPE THE NEW RACE BOX HAS THE SAME GOALS FOR SAFETY, WILL IT COLLIN?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif</TD></TR>
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My friend has the six gun on his dmax, and he doesn't like at all in power, I went to banks couple of weeks ago, their like 30 min. away. I talked to the guy and he said that they are limitted a lot because they are in Ca. and the epa or someone checks on them very frequently. Is this the same as for Edge or any other companies not in Ca.

Edge has a label on the carton with the "legal in CA for off road use only" statement.

sky1,


Our race box is almost to the point of release. I'll get some detail from our engineering dept. and post it as soon as I can.


LBZrcks,


Please have your friend e-mail me. Maybe he can stop by and let us take a look at his truck.

is there anybody that knows about any bad points about the Edge juice because I'm really close to gettin one for my LLY as soon as I can. can it hurt the Allison or is it pretty safe as long as your not runnin it to deathhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

colin,


i have the banks six gun with speed loader and a banks monster exhaust on my '04. i previously had the edge box on my '02 duramax and feel that the six gun with speed loader is somewhat lacking in power.


i called banks and spoke to a guy in your tech department and he had no idea of the race box you are speaking of. he had someone else call me back and he said he will find out and call me back and i have not received a call yet since monday.


is this new race box you are speaking of compatible with the six gun? will i have to buy a new box or is it an upgrade to the six gun?


please fill me in as i am unhappy with my current setup and am looking to replace it with an edge box but will consider keeping it if it is a simple upgrade.


thanks,


andrew

Collin,


I have visited your website and read your plain white wrapper publication in regards to the 6-gun several times. It appears you have put safety as your number 1 factor when designing the 6-gun. You state that you limit turbo speed to 124000 RPM, limit rail pressure to 26K and monitor transmission slippage down to 3%.


Are your products overly safe? What can happen to a dmax when these factors are not accounted for?


Onto another topic. I constantly here this backround noise about differnt dyno testing procedures. We have all seen how your product fairs when compared to the EDGE on the common "acceleration" type of dyno test. How does the Edge compare to the 6-gun on your type of dyno test?


Have you ever ran and Edge on level 5 on your type of dyno test? What were the results? Was there any engine or tranny damge? What were the EGT's? Edited by: Bronco

BlueCrew 04 D/A SB GMC;


Any of the boxes can and will do damage to the tranny, engine, and other drive line parts if you run the plss out of the truck. Some (as in the Juice, and Banks along with others) help to protect different things such as the transmission. But just remember that the transmission will wear out regardless if it is stock and run easy. So when power is added it will accelerate part wearing out. (No matter what protection it has)


Power adons are like alcohol, use it in moderation! Sometimes I baby my truck for weeks on end, then other times, I can`t seam to keep my foot off the floor board. But I know I am doing damage to every part of the truck, and that it will not last forever. I just enjoy it while I canhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


And yes the Juice has bad points, they all do! Some has problems with the Juice when it rains, others have problems with the new gauge, and yet others have problems with the power, or lack of it.


I had an early Juice, and didn`t like it and it didn`t like my truck. But that was a while back. Most do not have trouble with it.


I was waiting to get feed back about the Banks 6-gun before I made my next purchase. It is looking like I will be making the Hot Juice with an Additude my choice. To me the Banks has fell far below what they were spoutin` off about. It is far from being the MOST POWERFUL ADD ON for our trucks.


Banks shoud have stated that the 6-gun has more power then anyother box they build for the Duramax. Then they would not be lieing. I have looked at several dyno charts and no matter how you look at it (Unless it is like Golf, as in the lowest score wins!) they are commiting fraud with their advertising.Edited by: hdmax

hdmax,

“To me the Banks has fell far below what they are spoutin’ off about.”

If by spoutin’ off you mean advertising let me correct you. As Peter T. has explained, we use a different type of dyno test that nets different results than are common at a typical dyno day event. If you’d like, I will have Peter post our results to show you how we come to our conclusions.

“Banks shoud have stated that the 6-gun has more power then anyother box they build for the Duramax. Then they would not be lieing. I have looked at several dyno charts and no matter how you look at it (Unless it is like Golf, as in the lowest score wins!) they are commiting fraud with their advertising.

If by lieing you mean “lying”, I don’t appreciate your accusation. I probably don’t have to tell you this, but automotive aftermarket companies will not last 46 years if their advertising campaign is built on lies. “Committing fraud” is a strong accusation, maybe one you should refrain from making until you learn how to spell the word “Committing”.

HEY ALL OF THIS NON SENSE IS GREAT BUT WHAT ABOUT MY QUESTIONS?


Were they not valid? Were they not relevant?


Colin please answer all of my questions to the best of your abillaty. I did not accuse you anything other than possiblly building an overly safe unit. Could be due to EPA . Could be be due to Banks not wanting to hurt any vehicle at any all***ude.


I just want some facts and comparrisons.


I have heard rumors that a Egde on level 5 at high all***ude would heat up and spin the turbo to quick. Is this true? Will your box do the same?


I have heard rumors that the Edge on level 5 on your type of dyno test would have a melt down. Is this true? Will your box have a melt down as well? Will any box have a melt down on your type of dyno test?

Bottom line is when you look at the numbers hdmax is completely correct with his statements. You can't even rule out fraud because the numbers are speaking out loud and clear and they are far below what is advertised. This looks like a case of the desire to edge out the compe***ion. Probably explains why the reported numbers are just over those reported by EDGE. Difference is that the EDGE box meets their advertised numbers and even exceeds them in most cases. I wonder how many of these boxes were sold to innocent people and profited from based on the information that was advertised. Stating your number of years in buisness and pointing out someone's spelling is no defense at all. The honest thing to do would be to correctly advertise the product or meet the numbers advertised. Plain and simple. Free upgrades or discounts for the people involved should not be out of the question. JMHO


Edited by: a bear

Does anyone know of a Dmax that destroyed a turbo that wasn't modified? I bet you can't overspool one with any of the common power boxes unless you modify the wastegate. Banks provides the hardware for such modification and so they should be more concerned about turbo speed than others.


Honestly though most automotive performance product claims are BS. Look at intakes, exhaust, fuel additives, ect. They don't provide nearly the power increases that they claim for those of us in real world situations. Banks hasn't done anything except continue with an accepted marketing practice that is decades old.


There are some exceptions like Edge, of which I have had two boxes which both exceded my expectations and had zero problems. --SShttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

You know what bugs me about the Banks box - people are getting sucked in to the advertising and the brand name behind it, and taking it as face (advertising) value. My cousin was one such "victim"...


I've not posted bashing the Banks previously (there were more than enough people doing that), but Colin's post was completely out of line. HDMAX made a couple spelling mistakes - WHOOPEE - are you that immature that 1/2 your argument is putting down someones spelling mistakes?


Yes, you test differently... ARE YOU SAYING ON YOUR TEST THAT IT OUTPERFORMS THE EDGE? If so, show it. I don't think you have the b*lls or nerve, let alone the Quad or TST.


Why else would you be releasing a "Race box"? You must realize that your box falls short (and I am paraphrasing here) "of the most powerful add-on" for the Duramax.


Grow up Banks. Your brand name will sell more than your share of boxes, and it might be a good product FOR WHAT IT IS, but not what you're advertising it as. Count me as one completely turned off (&amp; ticked) consumer...

"Banks shoud have stated that the 6-gun has more power then anyother box they build for the Duramax. Then they would not be lieing. I have looked at several dyno charts and no matter how you look at it (Unless it is like Golf, as in the lowest score wins!) they are commiting fraud with their advertising."..............kinda been my point all along......."they" build would seem to make it better......Colin you probably a nice guy but your coming accross like a jerk.......I Have a banks exhaust and like it tremendously........you guys make some quality products..........but you just got carried away with the advertising with the six gun/speed loader.........even with a 47 year old company your are only as good as the worst thing you ever did........unless you correct it......My company was incorporated in the early 50's and we work harder everyday trying improve on our good reputation and not just remind everyone of it. Get your race box out, send out some betas. There is plenty here who can test it......John Kennedy has a new dyno and is very to the point and honest in his comparisons. Get some outside feedback make your claims.........sell some boxes..............dave


by the way edge has race boxes too...........so do others..
far as I know you(banks) have only been compared to the "for general audiences" versions of edges and others so do your homework.........No whiners or excuses allowed
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif Edited by: sdaver

Speaking of JK's dyno, myself and Victory Red were up there last week and tried the 6-gun on Reds truck. Well I don't remember anything in their advertising saying that you had to cut into the trans harness to tap into a TC wire so it can determine if the trans is slipping. Edge does it without a wire tap. And yes the edge does watch for slippage. Needless to say the box produced very poor results without this wire tapped in. I guess it thought the trans was always slipping???http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif Whatever. JK correct me if I miss stated any facts here.


Don't get me wrong, Like many others here I think Banks is a Great company and I don't care to razz on them about there box, just don't like this wire tapping crap for a simple box.


J

hdmax,

“To me the Banks has fell far below what they are spoutin’ off about.”

If by spoutin’ off you mean advertising let me correct you. As Peter T. has explained, we use a different type of dyno test that nets different results than are common at a typical dyno day event. If you’d like, I will have Peter post our results to show you how we come to our conclusions.
By Spoutin` off; I mean you claim to have to most powerfull add on box for the Duramax! That my friend is a LIE

“Banks shoud have stated that the 6-gun has more power then anyother box they build for the Duramax. Then they would not be lieing. I have looked at several dyno charts and no matter how you look at it (Unless it is like Golf, as in the lowest score wins!) they are commiting fraud with their advertising.

If by lieing you mean “lying”, I don’t appreciate your accusation. I probably don’t have to tell you this, but automotive aftermarket companies will not last 46 years if their advertising campaign is built on lies. “Committing fraud” is a strong accusation, maybe one you should refrain from making until you learn how to spell the word “Committing”.

Why not? Look at microsoft (not 46 years yet) they lie and cheat everyone, and they have become the number one company in the world, With that said; I do believe you can survive for 46 years while lying to the public.





As for my spelling! I am sorry, I am on some strong drugs for the past couple days. (NEURONTIN 300MG, CELEBREX 200MG, and METHADONE 100MG every 12 hours)


But even when I am not on drugs my spelling is not perfecthttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif


Colin, you can look back through post on this forum and see that I gave you and your company the benefit of a doubt while others were ready to hang you. I (Like a good boy) waited, now many dynos have revieled that your product is lackluster at best. I really don't care what type Dyno you use. When compared to the Regular Juice on the Dyno your 6-Gun falls short no matter what RPM you look at.


This is from YOUR web site


<FONT face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-seri

Edge has a label on the carton with the "legal in CA for off road use only" statement.

does that make it legal to circumvent federal emissions standards in the other 49 states. shouldn't it say use of this product for anything other than off road use is a violation of your federal emissions standards in all 50 states. CA. has higher standards above federal standards but you still must adhere to the federal standards as well. Edited by: FISHHOG

The actual graphs were not posted, only the results.

JK check your fax machine. It should be spitting out a bunch of paper after I stop getting the busy signal.

DT thanks for the idea. I hooked up my Ohm meter and here are the results. I will let you know if the new switch they send me is any different, but according to your theory, which makes sense, this switch should be good.

1) 27.90
2) 12.12
3) 6.67
4) 3.74
5) 2.05
6) 0.88

Huck


ck your switch in position 7-8-9-10-11-12

funny how colin missed mine and bronco's questions and jumped all over hdmax for spelling mistakes.


should i repost my question with spelling errors in it to get a response? i have called banks and got the runaround and have not received any answers either.


no one at banks knows anything about this race box but colin?

Speaking of JK's dyno, myself and Victory Red were up there last week and tried the 6-gun on Reds truck. Well I don't remember anything in their advertising saying that you had to cut into the trans harness to tap into a TC wire so it can determine if the trans is slipping. Edge does it without a wire tap. And yes the edge does watch for slippage. Needless to say the box produced very poor results without this wire tapped in. I guess it thought the trans was always slipping???http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif Whatever. JK correct me if I miss stated any facts here.


Don't get me wrong, Like many others here I think Banks is a Great company and I don't care to razz on them about there box, just don't like this wire tapping crap for a simple box.


J








Jason,





I think we may have missed the initializtion "secret handshake ritual" that is apparently required to activate the module. I'll research further. I've been so accustomed to swapping modules in 2 minutes or less, I probably should have re-read the book.





The end result was that we got a code 2,4??? which was TCC signal, and the box made no change in power. In the interest of keeping things moving, the 6 Gun was banished to the goodie cart...

I own a 2500 HD CC D/A 2003 chevy with the banks six gun/speed loader. I also have a banks monster exhaust and K&amp;N air filter. I have never tried any other performance modules and probably never will. The numbers do not really matter to me, all that matters is that I can feel the power comparing stock to level 6 with speed loader(tow haul mode). I do not race just use the extra power when passing on narrow two lane roads. This box is not for everyone but it suits me just fine. Once it continues to be safe and reliable with no tranny issues I will continue to be satisfied with it.

John,


I got the same code/same result. It must need the trans signal.


"In the interest of keeping things moving, the 6 Gun was banished to the goodie cart..."


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif I also did the same.Edited by: Trippin

When a man accuses our company of lying and fraud we will undoubtedly dispute his claim. We’ve never made a malicious post about a competitor on any of the forums nor will we. We are an honest company that’s built on repeat business. We’ve explained the way we test our products and will be happy to post our test results this upcoming week. We don’t employ people to hide behind screen names and flame competitors and we never will. When a competitor is getting flamed, we have never once jumped on the thread and added fuel to the fire. If anyone has an issue with our products, e-mail me and we will do our best to resolve it.

Wickedpsi,

I received your p.m. yesterday afternoon and will work on your issues on Monday morning. Our Tech Service and Sales Department’s are usually not briefed on a new product until it’s released for sale. Were very close to the release of our race box; the only hold up is finding a place in <st1:place>Southern California</st1:place> to test this type of product.

Bronco,

We will try and answer all questions including yours in one post on Monday.

Edited by: FISHHOG

Oh man look! A vendor has posted on the "Dieselplace"...Quick everybody lets attack! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


Colin,


Grab a Tech II and head over to Westech in Mira Loma. You can run acceleration tests and load tests all in the same place. And make sure you bring some tranny killing power with this race box...these guys are a tough crowd.


FishHog,


I'm sure the Banks box has some merit for the towing crowd. Based on others results I was pretty sure it was not going to become a permanent fixture on my truck so I was not in a hurry to splice into the trans wires just for testing puposes. Now a "T" harness would solve my concerns about violating those wires. I might have to see if I can round up some Delphi plugs and make one. Edited by: Trippin

Colin I'm almost afraid to post this there maybe a spelling era (oops I've aready made one ) error. I to have the sixgun/speedloader and I am not happy as well.

grappledog,


When did you buy the Six-Gun from us? What are your issues?

Colin,





How about tagging along with "Pops" if he comes to WI at the end of May. The K&amp;S dyno day is a Saturday. We could spin the rollers here on Sunday and you'd see firsthand how things go with my testing.





I'll have Superflow here today (late aft) thru Wed late aft doing training/commissioning. We can already do step tests going forward, but I'm sure they could step backwards also...

Colin,


Need anybody to try your new "RACE BOX" out on the street? I'll be happy to test it out. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

hopefully it will need a built tranny to hold it if not then its not much..............Trippin lives there on the left coast......he could do it......daveEdited by: sdaver

I know it makes a huge difference if your in tow haul or not the six gun tcc wires monitor the pwm of the tcc solonoid and can tell by % being applied if the trans is trying to protect from slip or not. seems that any type of slip in the allison will result in the tcm disabling the tcc





I'd be interested in any concrete details as to how TCC duty cycle affects the performance of the box. The destructions say 6 speed excludes the TCC wires, but is there anything else special that needs to be done?

Here are my issues. It has nothing to do with vendor bashing or product cheerleading.


I want a safe box. However I do not want an overly safe box.


I want to know if turbo melt downs are a real issue or just some marketing ploy.


I want to know when I am washing my cylinder walls and dilluting my engine oil.


I want to no at what point am I accelerating the wear on my stock factory clutches.


I am looking a the very long term picture. Not just the next 20-40K miles.


If it turns out that a guy can not add more than lets say 50HP with only computer timing, then I will look elswhere. Such as camshafts,turbos,intercoolers and NO2.


However if there are no long term sacrifices then why not add more fuel? There are some environmental concerns, however that is a personal choice for the time being.


I just want to no if there is any facts behind the "scare tatics" of Banks. You will not find them in print, but if you read between the lines and talk to sales reps. they are there.


If the claims are true then I will stick with a lower powered box.


One other issue that concerns me is as follows. Regardless of instalatiion ease, has anyone ever hooked up one of these boxes correctly, fully all wires, good switch, accurate hand shake? Or are these more exuses for an under powered overly safe box? Or is it truly operator error or defects??


At this point the fiction is strongly outweighing the facts. I have no clue as to what the "TRUTH" is at this point in regards to the BANKS 6-GUN??????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????

Bronco


After reading thru all that ,no offense, get off the fence, stay on the porch ,stay stock .....


Never mind trying to hang with the Big Dogs ,your like a nipping barking pocket dog .... This comes to mind (http://www.everwonder.com/david/tacobell/videos3/quiero8b.avi)





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Right now, the only thing I'm worried about is if the RACEBOX will bypass that damned speed limiter on my 2001. Please say it's so...

dEdited by: Bronco

Bronco


After reading thru all that ,no offense, get off the fence, stay on the porch ,stay stock .....


Never mind trying to hang with the Big Dogs ,your like a nipping barking pocket dog .... This comes to mind (http://www.everwonder.com/david/tacobell/videos3/quiero8b.avi)





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif





MAC,


For a guy who tries to lay down the rules by saying no personal insults or personal attacks will be tolerated at the diesel place, don't you think you are pushin it a little too far? It is real cute that you said no offence and that you put a HIHI at the end but that does not change the fact tha you just insulted me and attacked me.


What is so wrong with me wanting a full understanding of the products that I put on my 40K truck before I do so?


You might like to blow your familys money but I have other prioritys in life. I like to know wht I am getting into before I spend my hard earned money.


I can guarentee you that if all of questions in this thread were answered truthfully by both Edge and Banks we would all be alot smarter.


What are you all so afraid of? The truth is not so painfull you should try it sometime.

For God's sake people, put the Edge to it, put it on 4, put the hammer down and don't worry about it. You guy's worry more than a bunch of old woman. I'm sure Colin will hold your hand if you buy a Banks pea shooter.

"For God's sake people, put the Edge to it, put it on 4, put the hammer down and don't worry about it. You guy's worry more than a bunch of old woman. I'm sure Colin will hold your hand if you buy a Banks pea shooter."

that sums it up..............my thoughts exactly
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif Edited by: sdaver

I think that there are a couple of different things going on here.


One of them is the fact that if EDGE were to go out of buisness then there would be an awful lot of people here with no warranty service.


Secondly I wonder just how many Edge modules have been given out for free to members here at the place?


Finally Who is Edge? Why do they not come here and talk for them selves? Or are they already here?


Kinda sums it up if yu ask me.Edited by: Bronco

Sorry Bronco was a joke ... Your right I should have known better to give the opportunity to be castrated over being humorous.... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


Heres a little advice ....


Point is sometimes people Micro Manage and don't realize it, in this case your Micro thinking IMO ... Also if you over concerned with super longevity then STOCK should be your only power source you desire honestly ....


Once you get the super filter pump system in, your already breaching safe HP levels ...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif


Ease up man, have some fun enjoy life take things at face value these aren't life changing decisions ...


My family isn't suffering over my choice of tuner thanks for caring although ...


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

I think that there are a couple of different things going on here.


One of them is the fact that if EDGE were to go out of buisness then there would be an awful lot of people here with no warranty service.


Secondly I wonder just how many Edge modules have been given out for free to members here at the place?


Finally Who is Edge? Why do they not come here and talk for them selves? Or are they already here?


Kinda sums it up if yu ask me.





I can`t seem to get a free Juicehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


And the reason they aren`t here, is they would be banned just like Quadhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif Now that was a joke. As everyone knows that anyone from Juice would not and could not get banned from this placehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

I just do not understand why people who have a good product on there truck such as EDGE are so concerned with what Banks is doing. If you are happy with your goods then leave those alone that either are having problems with the Banks or are seroiusly considering purchasing a Banks.





I have some questions that still need to be answered. And now that I think of it I have some more.


How come EDGE can monitor tranny slip with out tapping into the TCM wire harness. Is Banks retarded?


Has an EDGE ever been tested on the exact same type of dyno test that Banks uses?


At this point there are very few people here on this site that have hooked up the 6-gun properly. That includes the exaust probe and the TCM wires. FISHHOG seems to be one of the few who have taken the time to install this product correctly. He also really seems to like his 6-gun.





I just think it is a shame that before any real information can be shared every body here jumps on your back and trys to slit your throat.


What is the point then? Just go with one brand and leave it up to themselves to stay competitive? That is called a monoploy. If we were to fully discuss products and rate them on there merrits, then the market would stay extremely competitve and we ( the 3500 of us real life non- affialated users) would always benifit from top of the line cutting edge technology.


I think it would be hilarious if BANKS had a dyno day. You all could bring your trucks and stacks and run them on BANKS dyno.


What is aluminum going for these days? .18 cents per pound? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

FYI I have towed 8-10 thousand pounds on trips from 400 to 800 miles with a very wicked stack around 470 rwhp with no issues cruise control set...yes I watched the guages but 1220 preturbo and 800 post turbo was all I saw............granted the last trip was last weekend and the highest air temp was in 80's. Fuel milage averaged 12 plus with my 21 foot enclosed trailor and 10-11 with the fiver. Power to spare no egt issues..........yes I could bury the egt if I wanted.......but heck I can do that unloaded . As for banks method of testing who knows but the performance I have with a little common sense I can tow anything the dmax was designed to tow. Unloaded theres not much offered by the big three that can hang with a modified dmax.

Colin, I purchased mine from performance center wholesale about 4 weeks ago. At our shop we keep up 2 pro pull trucks for a gm dealer. He decided he wanted to pull one of his new diesels in an off the street class, so we bought him an edge/ attitude, but it never made it to the truck. I tried it on mine and was really impressed, but I had been reading about the six gun and had have to one. I have installed everything properly and it simply does not have the performance the edge has.


Thanks, Ben

hopefully it will need a built tranny to hold it if not then its not much..............Trippin lives there on the left coast......he could do it......dave


Colin,


I'm willing to step up and take one for the team. I'll PM my phone #.








Bronco,


I sorta lost interest in the whole thread.. Fass vs Preporator when it turned into a pissing match. Did you ever install both/either on your truck and finish with the evaluation? I bought one but haven't installed it yet......was just wondering? I might have to do a before and after at the dyno just to see.


Thanks in advance,


TrippinEdited by: Trippin

Hey Trippin,


Since this thread is about the Banks 6-gun I will go ahead and PM you. We can talk about it more then.

Hey Trippin,


Since this thread is about the Banks 6-gun I will go ahead and PM you. We can talk about it more then.





I agree! Sorry for taking it off track.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Bronco said:


"How come EDGE can monitor tranny slip with out tapping into the TCM wire harness. Is Banks retarded?"


Good question, ask Banks! Because the Edge does watch for slip and reduce power! I've seen the same box on a stock trans and a modded one and there is an 80hp difference.(approx.)


Bronco also said:


"I think it would be hilarious if BANKS had a dyno day. You all could bring your trucks and stacks and run them on BANKS dyno."


I think Kennedy is trying to do just that except in reverse:


"Colin,


How about tagging along with "Pops" if he comes to WI at the end of May. The K&amp;S dyno day is a Saturday. We could spin the rollers here on Sunday and you'd see firsthand how things go with my testing."


And his dyno will have the ability to do accel tests, step-up, step-down, and inertia tests by then. Banks could then compare boxes in the same dyno and same atmospheric conditions for a good comparison.


nuff said!


J

Bronco said:


"How come EDGE can monitor tranny slip with out tapping into the TCM wire harness. Is Banks retarded?"


Good question, ask Banks! Because the Edge does watch for slip and reduce power! I've seen the same box on a stock trans and a modded one and there is an 80hp difference.(approx.)

so how does the edge know if it is a stock tranny or not? does it have special programming for those who can afford a tranny upgrade? i would assume that if the tests were being done with a tech 2 in 4th gear even a stock trans would not be slipping.and if it was slipping what was the % of slip being shown on the attitude controller?

The truck was locked in 4th with a tech 2 and was in T/h. The attitude controled showed less than 1% for most of the run. However, as soon as the power was applied and the engine came to full boost you could see about a 6% or so slip %. But it reacted so quickly you could only see it for a split second. This happened one or so other times during the run. When looking at the dyno plots, you could easily see when it slipped because there was a dramatic reduction in the power curve and then it slowly started to climb back up. These tests were performed with a 145 HJ/AT. Which has been dyno at approx. 200+ increase in HP.


Also note these tests were performed on a load cell dyno, so the truck would come to full boost/power output before it is allowed to accelerate. If this box is run on an inertial dyno, you might be right that the trans would not slip because there is a vastly reduced load.


As far as if the trans is stock or not, that is not the question. It is simply a matter of weather or not it is slipping. And by slipping I mean TC slippage. I don't think it can actually monitor clutch slippage but I might be wrong.


J

The truck was locked in 4th with a tech 2 and was in T/h. The attitude controled showed less than 1% for most of the run. However, as soon as the power was applied and the engine came to full boost you could see about a 6% or so slip %. But it reacted so quickly you could only see it for a split second. This happened one or so other times during the run. When looking at the dyno plots, you could easily see when it slipped because there was a dramatic reduction in the power curve and then it slowly started to climb back up. These tests were performed with a 145 HJ/AT. Which has been dyno at approx. 200+ increase in HP.


Also note these tests were performed on a load cell dyno, so the truck would come to full boost/power output before it is allowed to accelerate. If this box is run on an inertial dyno, you might be right that the trans would not slip because there is a vastly reduced load.


As far as if the trans is stock or not, that is not the question. It is simply a matter of weather or not it is slipping. And by slipping I mean TC slippage. I don't think it can actually monitor clutch slippage but I might be wrong.


J

is it possible that that the tcm sees a over torque condition and signals the ecm to cut fuel delivery to compensate and the edge is just along for the ride. seems that all info on here leads to the fact that the trans should not be slipping in 4th with the tech 2 locking the tq. converter while even banks and edge both claim that they have never seen a allison slip in any gear except 5th at 680 ft tq. 6% seems like a lot of slip without the allison taking charge and unlocking the tcc. posts some charts for the viewers to look at

You are correct! At 680 lbs of torque, the trans will NOT slip in 4th, or atleast mine didn't. With the 125 J/AT the trans held 720 lbs of torque. However, the HJ/AT produced around 900lbs on a modded tranny (Kennedy can tell you more about this). That is the reason a stock trans cannot hold, even in 4th.


As far as if the ECM (or TCM in this case) is reducing fuel, I don't believe that is the case. Someone will have to help me here, but I believe the TCM will let the trans "slip" at least twice as long as the juice will before reducing power. Therefore if a slip is detected, the juice should be the first to react. Again, this was a while ago when I bought my 90hp juice but I'm sure the same rules apply.


Sorry that this "Banks" thread got derailed like this, I apologize. It was not my intention. I also hate when threat go off on tangents. Sorry!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif


Jason

so maybe we are finding out that the stock allison cannot handle more than 720 ft lbs. of tq. under load without taking corrective action . is this in direct conflict with posted testing procedures and results or is this due to test methods as it seems that all results are all over the board depending on who tested it or what type of dyno was used maybe your results on paper look like my results at 2250.

Okay, so has any one here driven a 6- gun with speed loader on the same truck as an edge? ( not at same time) I am curios if there is a nticable difference in power? Drivabillaty? Shift firmness? Black smoke?


I added this in because it will take us out of specualtaion and put us into reallity.


I am willing to listen to any one who has used both and had both units hooked up cerrectly and in good working order.


Anyone?


BTW has any one tried to stack a 6-gun?

I'd be interested in any concrete details as to how TCC duty cycle affects the performance of the box. The destructions say 6 speed excludes the TCC wires, but is there anything else special that needs to be done?

as the allison trans uses a combination of trim solonoids A &amp; B plus the tcc solonoid to modify fluid pressures on all upshifts except for the 1-2 shift whitch you have no tcc until you are in 2 at xrpm. the tcc duty cycles are varied during these shifts to allow less tq to the trans. to allow it to make smother shifts without destroying the clutch packs whitch during a shift are lacking full pressure to hold them. there is adaptive shift default calibrations for tcc as well and until you have total convergence you won't have a smooth shift. the banks box will withdraw power if it detects slip and or hi egt's and will not reintroduce power until it see's 5 consecutive tcc lock ups. this may be why the wires for the tcc or it may be a better way to make smoother shifts by reducing fuel during low duty cycles. less tq.= smother shift. as i am not a banks engineer or retailer i am only offering this to you in my own opinion. i would assume the reason you cant get the six-gun to work without the tcc wires is it must be seeing a signal from the park nuetral switch indicating a auto. you need the egt probe input also if you are going to use the speed loader. Edited by: FISHHOG

The Edge detects slip, and the Attitude even displays that slip. I too would be curious what the TCC wire is for...

Why would anyone want to wait for 6 TCC lockups before being able to use the power they bought?

Fishhog


I'm curious how the ATS transmission mods affect the Banks module. I guess I can shut the commander off when I test.





Anyhow, I had Superflow write up a quick test profile allowing me to do a downstep test. There are limitations as to what I can command the Allison to do , but the 6 speed will be easy to run. At present, I can run from about 2600 RPM down or from 60 mph to 35 mph.





When all's said/done, I should be able to map out ECT, Boost, EGT, lift AND rail psi. and many other things...

while i will be the first one to admit that i dont like the tcc wires either it must be for a good reason. this info may not be available to us as it may be propriatary. as we tryed to load my truck down on the dyno with 20000 # it jumped up in tq but the trans kicked out the tcc halfway through the test even with the tech 2 locking the tcc. im sure that you will get some test results soon and share them with us,

You need to command the shift, not the TCC...

it was locked in 4th with tech 2 sorry for the misprint. needless to say something went wrong. this was our last run so didn't try anything else. trans stayed in gear but tcc unlocked.

If you watch the speedo, you'll see that at around 65mph the safety limits of the T2 are exceeded. I've found the need to begin the test below these limits as once it limits out, the trans is back in control.





A description of how Banks holds the trans through a reverse test window would be nice...

John,


if i understand fishhog, what happened was i was running the tech2 and the truck when we tried the test. what happened was 1 of 2 things. either i got a little anxious on the go pedal after commanding 4th prior to converter lock-up and it never locked... or i overloaded the converter and it came out. i really doubt the latter.. sometimes i try to start them so low, that i'll command 4th, let the converter lock, back down a couple MPH and then start the test so i can get as much of a curve as possible. his tires are smaller than mine plus he has a different converter, which made me have to re-learn the starting points..

So this was at the start of an acceleration test?





It'seasy to forget the TH button, especially when restarting the engine...

BANKS, KENNEDY, FISHHOG,


What is the bottom line? Does the 6-gun monitor and perform shift duties more effectively then the Edge?


The 6-gun taps into the TCC wires. The EDGE monitors input speed and put put speed.


Or are the TCC wires just so the 6-gun can count 6 succesfull TQ lockups and then refuel?


Is The 6-gun more effecient or better in the defuel/tranny department?

BANKS, KENNEDY, FISHHOG,


What is the bottom line? Does the 6-gun monitor and perform shift duties more effectively then the Edge?


The 6-gun taps into the TCC wires. The EDGE monitors input speed and put put speed.


Or are the TCC wires just so the 6-gun can count 6 succesfull TQ lockups and then refuel?


Is The 6-gun more effecient or better in the defuel/tranny department?





The put put speed is critical! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


Sorry Bronco,
It made me laugh when I read it and I couldn't let the typo go....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!@TRIPPIN... i am LMAO RATM here too....





I would think it is reasonable to say thet input shaft/output shaft speed difference is the most critical to monitor for any module to 'protect the transmission or convertor.... if the convertor is the only thing monitored, and the clutches are slipping what protection does that afford the transmission?...NONE.


But if you measure input/output speed differences (slippage) then you can protect the whole tranny, from the T/C all the way to the clutches.


And that may well be why the juice produces the most consistent power and torque numbers than any other module. It is always'adjusting' to the percieved slip'


Just my thoughts on the matter.

I would take a plug and play any day over the cut and splice(duramaximiser excluded)........what does the banks monitor from the splice?(what type of voltage or resistance is it looking for) could it be fooled or jumped out for testing purposes. A trip to radio shack maybe in order............frakes ever gets back from the pacific he could figure it out..........Then info is tranmitted thru the can\bus why could they not get it there?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

Since a built tranny is needed for most high perf. applications the tell banks to skip all of the above for that boxEdited by: sdaver

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!@TRIPPIN... i am LMAO RATM here too....





I would think it is reasonable to say thet input shaft/output shaft speed difference is the most critical to monitor for any module to 'protect the transmission or convertor.... if the convertor is the only thing monitored, and the clutches are slipping what protection does that afford the transmission?...NONE.


But if you measure input/output speed differences (slippage) then you can protect the whole tranny, from the T/C all the way to the clutches.


And that may well be why the juice produces the most consistent power and torque numbers than any other module. It is always'adjusting' to the percieved slip'


Just my thoughts on the matter.

the input speed and output speed sensors values are used to determine gear ratios and i would assume values from these could also be used to determine a slip in one of the gears. however to determine if there is tq. converter clutch slip you need input from the engine speed sensor as well as the turbine speed sensor. the difference of these inputs would determine the actual slippage of the tcc. the circuts that banks is using are the command and control circut for the trim solonoid F that regulates pressure on the tcc. now that being said what they are doing with this circut remains a question for us all to look at. I may be wrong but I dont think they use this as a monitor only to count lock ups. change. the circuts being monitored and/or used are circut 418 and circut 2528 for those of you with a wiring schematic. Edited by: FISHHOG

I would take a plug and play any day over the cut and splice(duramaximiser excluded)........what does the banks monitor from the splice?(what type of voltage or resistance is it looking for) could it be fooled or jumped out for testing purposes. A trip to radio shack maybe in order............frakes ever gets back from the pacific he could figure it out..........Then info is tranmitted thru the can\bus why could they not get it there?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

Since a built tranny is needed for most high perf. applications the tell banks to skip all of the above for that box

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/9F3_scan.jpg

Got the Speed Loader working today. Looks like we hit a switch fault when we tried on Rick's truck.


Stock average 256HP and 446TQ


HJAT3-5 (90 HP max low boost fuel) average 361HP and 721TQ


6 Gun SL 6 average 368HP and 756TQ





EGT's for Banks and Edge were similar at just below 1400°f





Runs were controlled accelleration from 40 MPH to 75MPH over 12 second time. I didn't bother with the 125 Juice as the 90 already had a much better curve than the Banks, especially below 2200RPM.








Adding to Huck's switch ohm readings, all were K-ohms...

colin,


are you ever going to answer my question? you said it would be answered in a post on monday and today is thursday.

however to determine if there is tq. converter clutch slip you need input from the engine speed sensor as well as the turbine speed sensor. the difference of these inputs would determine the actual slippage of the tcc.


FISHHOG-


If that is true then what is TCC slip speed for? that is what i look at in the tech2 to determine if the converter is slipping.


Nick

since this will be my last post on the diesel place i have come to the conclusion that dyno numbers don't mean s*** including the ones that Nick posted on my truck. it is obvious by the way they have been posted on here for comparison for the last 3 months that they are always skewed one way or another to promote agendas for certain vendors and or advertisers. this really does nothing for the people who came here in search of honest info only to be misled by information that they know nothing about. those who really want to know how safe these products are on your truck should call the manufacture and ask them. I guess what sums it up best is plain and simple. IF ITS PLUG N PLAY YOUR GOING TO PAY
the link below really sums up the big picture
as to the real world. Nick thanks for your help.

http://www.bankspower.com/tech_chassisdyno.cfm
http://www.bankspower.com/tech_truthintesting.cfm Edited by: FISHHOG

FishHog


Sorry you feel that way .... Everyone has differances in opinion,this may or may not make someone see things differently ....


When it comes to power mods we all desire different things... I'm in the I want as much power for my dollar ,I'll control how and when I use it ...


Others want conservative power ,not for me but maybe best for most .... Each tuner has a place in the market but to each their own ...


A bold statement such as Use Plug and Play you will Pay isn't correct as the Banks is plug and play also ,so get your wallet out ...


So I guess a Programmer is totally safe ??


Open your mind when when participating in BB ,it's give and take ,hardly ever will everyone agree ...Mostly we all try and give a group info to help out .... In this case Power enhancements ...


Some of us are three years strong with trying all that has come to market for testing on our vehicles ...Take the info or leave it no one is trying to point the direction to one product ....


As long as YOUR happy with your decision to go with Banks that's all the matters,I hope you reconsider,don't take this info as insulting here ,it's not the intentions ...


Good luck


Mac Edited by: Mackin

FISHHOG,


I have read almost all of your posts and it is obvious that you are a Bank's man. I sometimes wondered if you were a spokes person for them.


I joined this forum to learn and hopefully to gain knowledge about the D/A. Previously, I had been a Cummins diehard since 1991. I guess what I am trying to say is, I try to be open minded.


I recently purchased the edge juice after reading everything I could on the many power enhancements available. I am very pleased with my decision. I did not buy it because I want to hot rod my truck, I'm too old for that. I like the added power, driveability, smoothness and the fact that I did not have to tap any wires and that it does not raise fuel pressure. Just because I went with edge, do I think everyone should, NO. Different people have different needs and different ideas about what they desire. Did I make the right choice? Who knows, however, it is my decision to make. I am very aware that I may have to pay if I play as I am sure you also will have to.


I personally, do not like posts made to promote certain products, and bashing of other products. Fortunately, there is not a lot of that going on in here, which makes this a pleasant and informative forum. I personally feel that your decision to leave this great forum will be your loss.


As Mac said, Good Luck!



Edited by: Hacksaw

On the subject of comparing dynos, I'll say this:


A man with a watch always knows what time it is. A man with two watches can never be sure.





Anyone wanting to accuse me of being on an agenda is welcome to either A) Come here and I'll run the tests for them in person on their or my truck. B) Come here and call me names, make accusations in person.








I sent my charts to Banks, and haven't heard any suggestions as to why it lacks performance.








BTW, I have a Banks big head actuator (actually 2) to install on my truck and another as soon as time allows. I doubt I need it, but I wanted the adjustability.





As for the dyno inf, I don't have a super extravagant setup like Banks, but I do have one thing they don't. A dyno that will test at over 400RWJHP WITHOUT slipping on the rollers AND can be verified with an optic tach to detect slippage. My testing is done with a load cell and I hold at the start of the test window with foot on floor until EGT and boost settle in and then begin the test. I suppose I'll run the downstep test some time, but the reality is, we seldom load these trucks hard enough to pull them down like a downstep does, and if we do, a downshift occurs...

I think what Fishhog is referring to about the "plug'n'play" is a programmer. You plug it in, do the do, then unplug it. The Banks and the Edge are more of a permanent deal. They also have more control over EGT's and such. Hey Fishhog, why are you leaving us? I'm a Banks man, too. I think by now we ALL know that they dyno their boxes a little different than most. Me more than anyone. I also believe Banks posts what they ARE seeing on their dyno. I'm parking my truck on Sunday of this week for the summer. Hopefully, the RACEBOX will be out before next October. I have no idea exactly what it will be. But for me, the ideal setup would be:


1. Direct replacement for the Six-Gun module. Which means it would plug into the TCM, EGT, switch, and wiring harnesses.


2. Maybe some credit toward the RACEBOX if we decide to trade the Six-Gun module in.


3. Bypasses the speed limiter on all models-incl. the 2001's.


That, my friends, would be sweet.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Here is my .02 cents. This info. is based off of talking to both Edge reps. Banks reps. and reading the post of users here at the Place.


The TCC wires do provide more transmission protection. Not to say that the Edge does not provide some protection.


The Banks 6-gun based off of dyno charts, 0-60 times and 1/4 mile times is equivalent to a 90HP EDGE. Maybe approaching a 125 EDGE.


Banks, due to CALIFORNIA EPA regulations and coparate philosophys, has chosen to build an extremely safe box. Although down on power as compared to EDGE.


I personally believe a 6-gun with 2-3 more levels, a attitude style monitore/gauge and a speed limiter remover would be a hot ticket.


OBVIOUSLY THE ABOVE STATEMENTS ARE JUST MY OPINIONS BASED OFF OF THE LIMITED INORMATION I HAVE BEEN PRESENTED WITH!

Actually, the Edge and VA are the easiest installs of any. If Banks were to read the trans data without splicing, and made a weatherproof case, they'd be right there as well...

so what if you have a 6 speed..can you just omit the tcc wires?

so what if you have a 6 speed..can you just omit the tcc wires?





According to the book, you just skip the TCC wires for a manual. We tried this on an auto, and had problems, BUT upon reinstallation on my truck I also got a switch fault code so it may have been a 6 gun code or procedural thing...

Kennedy,


Are you saying that the BANKS 6-gun does not monitor the tranny via the CAN-BUS? I assumed the 6-gun monitors the can-bus as well as the TCC wires?Edited by: Bronco

Okay, so has any one here driven a 6- gun with speed loader on the same truck as an edge? ( not at same time) I am curios if there is a nticable difference in power? Drivabillaty? Shift firmness? Black smoke?


I added this in because it will take us out of specualtaion and put us into reallity.


I am willing to listen to any one who has used both and had both units hooked up cerrectly and in good working order.


Anyone?


BTW has any one tried to stack a 6-gun?






First of all I must apologize for dragging this post back to the top, but I started it and I am compelled to follow thru on my results. Sorry for the tardy reply.

I have removed the Edge Hot Juice w/Attitude and re-installed the Banks Six-Gun w/Speed Loader. I did get the new switch from Banks and it tested almost exactly the same way as the original. I have to admit that I am guilty of not reading the instructions completely when I was doing my dyno testing back on the 13<SUP>th</SUP> of March, and I did miss the procedure of having the Banks box recognize the speed loader, but everything else was done properly. The instructions state that when the speed loader is installed for the first time you must turn the key to the on position and have the selector knob on 1 for five seconds. Then turn the knob to 6 for five seconds, and back to 1 for five seconds. The box I am using was from the very first shipment out of Banks. I did that test and got no feed back from the LED light. I called the Banks installation line and that has been changed for later boxes where it will blink twice to confirm the process. When the dyno runs were run the LED was a steady green stating that there were no known problems. So, at worst my runs would reflect the Six-Gun with out the Speed Loader.

My thoughts on how the truck drives now as compared to with the Edge installed are as expected. The Edge is VERY throttle sensitive, which gives you the feeling of lots of power with little throttle input. I do not have my tranny upgraded yet, so I did not run level 5 on my hot box. I found that level 3 was the best for daily driving, but still difficult to keep the truck straight on wet roads. The Banks box drives more like stock whereas you need to give more throttle input to get the power. I do notice that when the truck is in a loaded condition, like coming to a hill, the power comes alive without more throttle input. If you filter back thru some of the posts here it goes back to my thoughts that the Banks box is built for towing applications where the power will be there when needed instead of the Edge box approach of throwing lots of power at you right away. Banks = towing, and Edge = Drag Racing in my mind.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MA

First - don't apologize for bringing a thread to the top. IMO, it makes it MUCH more efficient to find info rather than search tons of posts...


Second - Good analysis/comparison of the two boxes. Keep 'em coming... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

WI Huck
I totally disagree about the Juice being more suited for drag racing than towing. The fact that the edge is more responsive to throttle input and has more power at lower rpms qualifies the juice as one of the best if not the best all around power adder available for the Duramax! Banks makes good quality products, been around for 30+ years but the marketing spin they place on the hp/tq numbers makes me look elsewhere when searching for a power adder. If a company truly manufactures the latest, greatest, best performing, high tech power adder on the market is there a need to "color" the advertisement of said box? Why should I or anyone trust a company that chooses this type of marketing strategy? Besides the power ratings what other details have been massaged with marketing hype? I'm not slamming Banks as a company but their advertising appears to be somewhat misleading.

"<font size="6">"I'm not slamming Banks as a company but their advertising appears to be somewhat misleading." </font>"http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif Edited by: sdaver

WI Huck
I totally disagree about the Juice being more suited for drag racing than towing. The fact that the edge is more responsive to throttle input and has more power at lower rpms qualifies the juice as one of the best if not the best all around power adder available for the Duramax! Banks makes good quality products, been around for 30+ years but the marketing spin they place on the hp/tq numbers makes me look elsewhere when searching for a power adder. If a company truly manufactures the latest, greatest, best performing, high tech power adder on the market is there a need to "color" the advertisement of said box? Why should I or anyone trust a company that chooses this type of marketing strategy? Besides the power ratings what other details have been massaged with marketing hype? I'm not slamming Banks as a company but their advertising appears to be somewhat misleading.





Couldn't have said it better myself! The 6 gun is relatively solid product, just forgot to load all 6 bullets.

The 6 gun is relatively solid product, just forgot to load all 6 bullets.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

The 6 gun is relatively solid product, just forgot to load all 6 bullets.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif








Can I quote you on that?


LMAO!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Guess you already did...


I think that if Banks were to develop some more aggressive tuning, it would run right in there with most any. It seems to be waiting a bit long for boost on all levels.


I'm still intending to do a downstep test with it, but I've been dragging my heels till I get a sample filter seal so I can change my oil prior to working my truck any more...

Kennedy,


Are you saying that the BANKS 6-gun does not monitor the tranny via the CAN-BUS? I assumed the 6-gun monitors the can-bus as well as the TCC wires?





Maybe I got some new info here. Forgive me if this has been covered. I spoke to the Banks tech people about sending my Sixgun/Speedloader in to have it checked out. I explained that I did not want to tap into the TCM wires and that I had tried to install without it. They indicated the wires had to be installed for it to function. I asked about a manual transmission and they indicated that the unit picks up an input signal that tells it whether or not it is a manual or auto. I asked about an overide for us animals that are trying our best to break something. He said not at this time. Wait for the race box.

WI Huck
I totally disagree about the Juice being more suited for drag racing than towing. The fact that the edge is more responsive to throttle input and has more power at lower rpms qualifies the juice as one of the best if not the best all around power adder available for the Duramax! Banks makes good quality products, been around for 30+ years but the marketing spin they place on the hp/tq numbers makes me look elsewhere when searching for a power adder. If a company truly manufactures the latest, greatest, best performing, high tech power adder on the market is there a need to "color" the advertisement of said box? Why should I or anyone trust a company that chooses this type of marketing strategy? Besides the power ratings what other details have been massaged with marketing hype? I'm not slamming Banks as a company but their advertising appears to be somewhat misleading.
I posted my dyno results and they speak for themselves. My intentions for the dyno testing in the first place were to prove or disprove the bad rap Banks was getting here and other places like this. My results did not match the advertised power gains, much like others have found. That does not mean their product should be disqualified from consideration, it is only information that can be helpful in making your decision. The reasons why their numbers and my numbers differ have been discussed already on this thread. If you can look past that fact and compare the Banks box for what it is and compare it to the Edge for what it is, you will discover which one is best for you. If you want a box that makes the truck jump when you hit the throttle get the Edge. If you want a truck that requires more throttle engagement and is smoother running, by smoother I mean not speeding up and then coasting back down over and over again when the cruse control is on get the Banks. Both are very good, both will pull anything you put behind the truck. Banks reputation has always been to deliver a dependable product that delivers performance within the vehicle’s capabilities and is <st1:State><st1:place>California</st1:place></st1:State> emissions compliant. Edge and others are more aggressive.

The whole reason for places like this is to compare opinions before you spend your cash.

Now, where did I put that Hot box... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

Huck

I do have to agree.... those looking for the absolute 'dummy-proof' towing setup, the banks might be the hot ticket for those people who do not wish to mess things up or be bothered with making the adjustments to their driving style. These are the mainstream people that banks are pursuing and hats off to them for it.


On the other hand, the edge is a known quantity... you would have to pry my edge box out of my cold dead fingers before i would give it up.


Both sound good, but take a hard look at what you want your rig for and spend your money as you see fit.


Both companies have great reps for service after sale IMHO and that is a cost that definately needs to be factored in to your purchasing decision.


J