I have a '96, can I install a mechanical pump?


I'm thinking there will be issues with the electronics, can they be dealt with?


Thanks in advance.

Bolt her on up and lets us know when you find the throttle cablehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Just playin, no it will not work.

I'm aware that a throttle cable will be required, actually there is a hole in the firewall for the throttle cable. There is a plug there from the factory.





I'm looking for a serious response. I'm told that it will work but I haven't yet gathered the details.

Why the mechanical pump. the EFI in your truck can out pace the mechanical system anyday.

Yeah it can be done I know there is number of computer issues that need to be delt with. I figure it's too big a pain to monkey with and the IP problems have been mostly the PMD..... so every one go over to the naw won't go therehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif.


But I rather work witrh the Electronic system and mvoe on rather than go back to the past. Now if I bought '93 okay, why fiddel with it.

Well, here's the deal. I'm very experienced with the older VW diesels. I like the brutal simplicity of a mechanical diesel. They pretty much HAVE to run as long as there is fuel. In my humble opinion the new diesels are getting away from what I think there advantage was. In the case of the 6.5 GM all you seem to see are posts talking about PMD failures and take a look on Ebay and all you see are electronic injection pumps for sale that have been removed because they spit out codes. I'm new to the 6.5 but my family is not, they've been into them since the very first 6.2. My brother was into hot rodding his 6.2's and he says he likes the way he could "tweak" the mechanical pumps. He told me that if I ever had electronic pump problems that I should install a mechanical pump. He has never done it though. I'm not interested in hot rodding my 6.5 but I AM interested in rock hard reliability and a mechanical pump devoid of sensitive/unreliable electronics appeals to me.


I have had a few cases of stalling and it worries me what I see on the bulletin boards.


Best case scenario I see check engine light. Worst case scenario I see lights and shift points screwed up.

I hear you Bob, the electronics has been driven by emmision standards so it's going to get worse before it gets better. This is one reason I keep my old 1971 Ford Bronco, basic and straight forwad no electronics and power NOTHING. Edited by: 16gaSxS

Yep, I know what you mean. This '96 is a replacement for a 1972 Chevy. One wire to the coil and one pipe to the carb for gas and that's all there is.


I'm thinking that a mechanical pump and a OPS bypass and a multitude of problems will be avoided.

You can use the mechanical pump. There was a article on it last year on the diesel page. One of the key items was that you had to use the existing APP throttle assy. and a second arm was added to it to attach the throttle cable. The computer still needs a feed to control the transmissionwhich comes from the APP. The correct ratio between the new arm and the existing movement of the pedal must be worked out. Brian Pederson is the one who worked it out in his Suburban. He was willing to make modified pedals from your existing pedal assy or a new replacement.

I'll give you one thing, the Electronics quit on my '93 k2500 and other than cruise control and ABS, everthing else works. But I have no plans to make my '94 EFI into a mechanical system. The pmd failures are exploited by frauds and hyped by the hysteria of the gullible comsumer. i have replaced one pmd but you get over it. You have a brain in that '96, and it's up to you to use it. You can spend thousands making it a hot truck or you can read up on what modifications to make, DIY and spend pennies on the dollar to the same end. I encourage you to make the most out of what you already have.











Edited by: quantum mechanic

QM,


I'm starting to think more like you now that I've thought more about it. I don't want to "bastard-ize" my nice truck. It runs and drives very nice just the way it is.


Does anyone know if a schematic is available for what's inside the PMD. If I knew what was in there I could build my own that would never fail and be cheap too.

I like the sound of that. As far as I know, it's two resistors and a driver(and retails for $300+) and I've heard of an extreme duty military version.


This Fuel Solenoid Driver didn't want to come off the IP, so I used a thin blade on a sawzall and cut through the bottom two screws. Heat's the killer and I would think you could use a page from the oveclockers manual for Ideas on how to better keep the FSD cool. for example, I've heard of poeple using liquid nitrogen to cool their cpu. This is rather extreme, but you get the idea.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/D8E_driver.jpg


This is the '96 it came off of. The new Driver is mounted on the silver colored cooler to the right of the windsheild wiper motor(blue wireloom). I see it off the fire wall and on a bracket where it will get more airflow, plus maybe a 12v fan to keep it cooler. the red wireloom is the boostcontroller, or potswitch comming off the b pin on the map sensor.


http://dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/76A_96l65.jpg


On this truck I've ported and polished the turbo housing, snorkel, intake maifold intake runners, 3" straight exhaust no restrictions, remote wiring harness & FSD cooler, AFE filter. Next is reprogramming, a second turbo, downpipe & exhaust, fab an intake with water to air intercooling, more reprogramming. maybe electric fans and the '97 water pump assm. after that. I try to keep it( modifications) on a steady pace, with the least investment to maximize my truck budget. With three trucks on the agenda this can get expensive quick. I got my first 6.5 2 1/2 years ago and didn't want to work on it at first. Several totally inflated mechanics bills later, no one but me touches them and I'm all the better for it. Tuning a 6.5 is like tuning yourself, the more you work at it, the better you get at it. Just see the truck as a reflection of you. ...and breathe!


Edited by: quantum mechanic

How much difference do you feel when you turn the boost control pot?

I have a '96, can I install a mechanical pump?


I'm thinking there will be issues with the electronics, can they be dealt with?





The answer is yes, yes & yes.


Very simple if standard trans, easy with 4L80E & 2WD, a little more trouble if 4L80E & 4WD.

If I had a boost guage in cab I could visually see the boost change. I have an enhanced scantool that reads about three different boost pressures, but it only shows how much variance your inducing into the system.ie you turn up the pot and it turns down the volts or psi or kpaG. I was driving with the scantool on (not recommended) and with no pot at full acceleration the psi reads 23 psi. with the pot on it reads 19 psi under the same conditions. I would assume that the actual psi is higher with the pot on by as much as 2 psi at any time.

Correct - your scantool reads baro + boost pressure. 23 boost - 15 baro = 6psi actual boost. (I round off because numbers always make my head hurt!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif).


With a linear 10k pot adjusted to 5k, or 1/2 turn, you should see around 10psi actual boost pressure. 10psi does give additional power that you can feel.


Note, Warning, Caution, Danger, Will Robinson, Danger!! Without boost and EGT gages, engine damage can occur with boost pressures above 10psi.


Intake Air Temperature rises as boost pressure rises. At 15psi, IAT can exceed 250deg, even toward 300-350deg. Exhaust Gas Temperature also rises, correspondingly - 1200deg can kill. Engine coolant temperature rises, accordingly - 240deg can kill, and the vehicle coolant temp gage is seldom accurate. You can hope that it reads high, as does mine.


Normally the PCM will pull fuel at high Intake Air Temperatures, but it can happen that EGT rises above safe levels before PCM pulls fuel. Restrictive exhaust is one scenario where this can happen. PCM does not monitor EGT.


The gages give an accurate view of cause and effect - how the engine is responding to your input. A Vacuum-Boost gage is around 16 bucks at jcwhitney.com. EGT gage, around a hundred bucks - cheap insurance, once proper useage is learned and observed.


These gages - Boost, EGT - are the most important step in power upgrading, with engine cooling and exhaust a close second.


You guys with '97-up trucks already got the coolant upgrades - exhaust is next - after gages, of course.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

I run at half of the numerical difference of the pot as shown on the scantool.


I havn't had any temperature related problems so far, but I have an Idea for a cheap water to air intercooler. YOU use two heater cores, a temp controled 12v relay, a 12v water pump and heater hose to fit it togather. Then fabricate an appropriate maifold that allows one heater core inside and fits between the turbo and the shortened upper intake(snorkel). The relay controls the water pump, circulating in cooler water from the other core mounted in front of the condensor.


I realize not everyone owns a welder and a cutting torch, butthat's you own personal problem.

Guy's doing something similar, over on the Page, but with ac evaporator core. He's cast an adaptor for the lower intake and a new upper plenum out of aluminum. Looks good, so far, and he's near ready to test it. I'll let you know how it works out, for comparison. Edited by: gmctd

I'm actually glag to hear I'm not the only one thinking about such things. This is a non welded super cooler. It uses the same part number a/c core as the truck. It works in that the trucks a/c works and the intake gets an icey blast.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/9C1_cooler.jpg


I am going to remake it where it lies flat instead of vertical. It also condensates vast amounts of water out of the air, just like a regular a/c evap.Edited by: quantum mechanic

Bobbiemartin,





I have a 4WD 4L80E





TALK TO ME MAN

93 transmission controller and harness from gm, used in G vans up to 95 i think. Controlling the electronic trans is the only problem. Anybody that thinks the computer controlled 6.5's will outrun a mechanical truck is on some good stuff. Do a look up on pump number 4979 from stanadyne.

EFI Inj Pump, DS-4, is Distributor type, Spill solenoid, 4 pumping plungers @ .031" dia, same as mechanical DB-4, but with timing and injection infinitely adjustable thru PCM program.


Meaning, driver-selectable adjustment capability, where instrumented spread-sheet data was fed back to any of the several OBD-I\-II programmers to provide desired maps.


Injection pressure, of prime importance in efficiently converting fuel to energy, is controlled by the injectors, whichever pump is on the supply side.


Just went from 63cmm fuel to 78cmm fuel in 10 minutes, no Diesel fuel spills, no busted knuckles, no hanging over a fender into the engine bay. EFI.


What's the limit? Weak three center mains webbing, nodular iron crank, 21.5:1 compression ratio, 5 oddly-spaced head bolts per cylinder (how's that gonna clamp the head on at 70hp per cylinder), and have you seen the actual size of the exhaust ports?


Things to contend with, but Bill Heath dyno'ed 582hp @ 4700 rpm, 786 lb-ft torque @ 2650rpm with a twin-turbo 18:1cr 6.2L, 11.42 seconds @ 116.42mph in a 1/2ton short wheelbase GMC pickup, back in 1993.


And, John Kennedy's '96 EFI street truck was unbeatable in the 6.5L series trucks, time and speed.


What's my point? Well, if I comb my hair just right, it's really not so noticeable, but, basically, I'm for being against. http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif


So, go for it.Edited by: gmctd

Enlightenment is the greatest high. The Diesel Place is one place I get the straight dope.


I'm glad to hear of all those who have come before me. It's like seeing steeping stones before you on the path.


Perhaps I will have to cast more than headers, intake and turbos.


In for a penny, in for a pound.

Casting is used where many pieces are required - welded-up assemblies are just as functional, if thicker-than-meineke tubing is used.


Equal short exhaust runners from heads to log-type manifolds with flanges welded on for turbos is good - don't need tuned-pipes where operating range is 1300 to 4000 rpm. Tuned pipes would reduce power band.


Same on intake - two 'logs' ducted to charge-air coolers, equal-length runners to intake ports in heads, you're good to go. Edited by: gmctd

I put together a 93' chev truck from about 10 others. It has a cab and transmission from a 95' (so it has the electronic 4 spd auto) and it had a 93' 350 gas.

To make a long story short I got pissed off with getting 12 mpg in the city and put a 6.5L diesel into it. This engine came out of a 94' half ton and had the electronic injection pump. Being fed up with electronics I put a mechanical pump on it, it bolts right up and runs fine.

Of course theres the problem with the electronic trans. If left alone it just goes into third gear. This tranny needs input from the motor, If you want to keep an auto I would swap it for a 700R4 or get a harness/computer from a 93-95 van.

sorry for the long post but one last thing....

what I am currently attempting is to make a manual shifter for my 4L60E. I am putting in a floor shifter and doing some wiring to just shift the automatic myself..kinda like the old Honda-matics.. I'll let you know if this actually works.