Not to steal thunder from someone else, but I wanted to get this over here as quick as possible.

At TDP, WI Huck posted......

"I called my friendly dealer today to get pricing on a 2004. I asked him to check into the supposed new Duramax LLY. He got back to me and did confirm that there was a LLY option, but it was a detuned (210 HP) version of the current LB7 that is intended for municipalities that do not need, or want 300 HP. As of today, there is still no “new” or “updated” Duramax engine available."

What do you think guys?

We got anough par! 430+ flywheel is enough for me.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Commercial vehicles and non-commercial vehicles will differ. The last I heard, and from a very reputable source, the new engine will make 320 hp and 565 tq

dmaxalliTech,

I know this is being beat to death, but considering how relatively close we are to this new engine coming out, it makes me anxious.

Do you think the redesigned injector placement makes it worth it to hold out for an LLY? How about 25 extra ponies? Will the EGR sabatoge this? I notice you have an '03. Did you know about the LLY when you ordered your rig? Thank you for your assistance.

bowtie, The LLY option was not even heard off to the public, I didnt know about it either when I got my truck.. I got mine last August, was the first 03 diesel in the area.


The redesigns were done for obvious and not so obvious reasons. Obvious to get the injectors external to prevent any more fuel in oil problems. Not obvious, emmisions.. The egr and cat will meet 06 emissions standards for Diesel engines, same reason fd went to 6.0


As with anything first year, I have some questions, but time will tell on the quality of the engine

dmaxalliTech,

Thanks for your response. I guess it works out nice, they refine the injectors, take care or the emissions for the enviro's, and also catch up to the Ford numbers in the process.

I will probably order my truck with the LB7 and enjoy the fact that there are 3 years of experience with the engine.

Thanks again.
Bob

I would avoid that cat and EGR like the plague, didn't the 8.1 have an asston of EGR issues??

To play devil's advocate, isn't this cat/EGR the same system the Cali trucks have been running for awhile??


Bob

I heard that the engine wont have the full 560 or whatever torque its rated at in 1st gear or 5th gear....Worthless if you ask me...those are the two gears I want full power So unless you need 560 ft lbs of torque in 2-3-4, its for you. Guess the Alli is coming into play with the power increase(obviously)


Bill

I'm not sure what I'm talking about, but is it possible that the new Dmax will make the new hp at a higher RPM, with the Allison allowing it to rev further to reach the new numbers. In 1st and 5th at the lower RPM's, the power would be the same. Just a lil theory from someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. ;-)


Bob

Regardless, Saturday I will go in and do the paperwork on the truck. LB7 here I come.

Why would GM stop at 320 hp, when Ford is at 325? Makes no sense I tell you!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

I have to post on this,


We are all falling into the trap the automakers want us too. Like bees to honey...Every year they come up with something that will add or make another 5 hp or 10 ftlbs of TQ more. Sometimes they brag we got 5hp over the Other guy. Would you really notice 5 hp more than Ford? would you even notice 5 hp more at any level..Serious doubt it.....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif Every year people pay THOUSANDS to have the best and the "Top of the Line" forgetting all the while what you buy today will not be the best tomorrow. There are some advantages(and disadvantages) to the next years model. It all depends on what you like or dislike. Trying to acheive the best or the most is a tail you will chase forever. While you lose tons of cash pursuing it, the automakers make millions selling it to you.


My point being this, You will read tons of stuff on the internet. Buy what suits your needs, not the hype. Unless I am wrong here and people have endless supplies of cash to be top dog...LOL. I was told that the 2001 trucks were junk and that they are problem prone and so on. However to date my truck has suited my needs perfectly. I say the newer they get the more complicated they become and the cost goes up and up.


Look at some of the new GMC stuff coming out, Electronically controlled shocks...Can you imagine the cost when one of those goes out...They are great when you first get them but............http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


Just my .02 cents

Duramax Dually, I couldn't agree more !!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

I used to be a Bee..! But I'm alright now http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif - Buzzzz, buzzzzz http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

Fuel in oil? Has anyone had this problem? Is it that much of a problem that it warrants an engine redesign?

Pick,

That is what I am concerned about. I really wouldn't fret much about 25 extra ponies, but if there was an inherent design flaw that was being addressed, I might be more interested.


Bob

Pick,


Many many people have had fuel in the oil, as well as leaking injector cup seals, antifreeze in oil. As is the injectors are a real PIA to change. I think there buried to reduce noise. Having them external to the head, like most other designs, would make them easier to service. As is they seem to not be lasting the like of the engine and are very expensive to change.

Bowtie,


I took delivery of an '04 3500 today. It has the "old" engine. I heard about the new one in enough time to cancel my order but went ahead after considering the major gain was the external injectors. I can make more power in level 2 juice and I don't have to deal with a cat, a EGR system and a new design to fuss with. I was very pleased with the performance of my '01 2500HD so this should be a good ride too.


My 2c anyhoo.


Bob

I made several phone calls today to no less than 12 dealers in the Kansas City area. I am looking to buy a 2004, but I too, am wondering if I should wait or not for the LLY to come out, if it is going to come out at all.


Results:


8 dealers/service depts. had not heard of the change and did not have any bulletins to say otherwise.


3 dealers/service depts had "heard" of the LLY modification. Each, though, had heard different things on just what would be changed. Only one was confident that the changes would all be positive.


1 dealer/service dept. stated that the engine had been discussed at the corporate level, but that plans had not been instituted and that the engine will not change for at least another model year or two.


One dealer will call me later on in the week after he talks with his regional GM representative. He believes that this rep most likely will know if some changes are imminent or not.


It would appear that the engine might not be in production anytime soon. I am hopeful that the regional rep will have a honest and knowledgeable answer. I cetainly do not want to spend 40,000 plus right now IF a better engine is just around the corner.


http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


Joe


Edited by: 99mo

With an Allison it is next to impossible to use full throttle hp in 5th gear. The trans will either downshift or your going too fast anyway. The loss of 20 hp in first isn't that big of a deal. 3rd and 4th are where I would use the hp the most. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Joe,

Thanks for taking the time and researching about the LLY. Sounds like we aren't going to see much of a change, if so few of the dealers hadn't heard about it. After all, these are the engines they need to be selling in a few months. Anyway, I am just not going to worry about it. I want my truck soon, and I hate to buy first year engines anyway. Saturday I have an appointment to speak with my salesman. Unless your regional director has some good info, I'll place the order.


Bob

This was over at TDP.....

"just to clarify both heavy duty(560) and medium duty duramax's should have the same number the only differnces in the engines are just the oil pans, flywheel housings, wiring, and some other cosmetic things, but both should have the same numbers the 04 duramax is rated at 320HP and 565ft/lbs torque and my source is very reliable and just an update on the 04's we have been runing pilot engines(test engines) and such so we can get the feel for them, there still shooting for a middle of december build date, so sometime in january they should be available at dealers, and as of right now i have heard little to no rumors on an 06, there probobly is, but nothing that i care to comfirm or deny, just getting way to ahead of yourself:) "


Bob

The cat is a resonator with a screen in it . The traditional cat won't work on a diesel. I still took mine off. The egr only works at idle and turns off as soon as you put your foot in it. I'd rather not have it but removal is a hassle and my GM engineer budy said leave it so I left mine on.Edited by: MOTO HEAD

Well, I still have not been able to get any reliable information one way or the other if the LLY is coming out soon or not. I don't know if it is okay or not to mention another website, but over at TDP, a guy who works at the Duramax plant now states that the engine might be improved for '05. Unknown now if the '04 will be updated and when. The local dealers still do not have definitive information. I have decided to order the new truck in a couple of weeks. If the improved version comes out next year, my loss. I am not going to wait on unsubstantiated rumors.

99mo,

I took the same route. A Duramax will be an impressive beast, even if it is an LB7 that came out a few months before the LLY. Bottom line is, I couldn't see waiting until early next year and not knowing for sure if there was even going to be a change. Ordered my '04 on Saturday, and won't feel bad if the infamous LLY really does come out soon.



Bob

bowtiebob,

I don't know if your source is correct on the new engine's torque. The Allison 1000 transmission is only rated for 545 ft-lbs.

Are they putting in a new transmission?

Just when I thought it was over...more information on the LLY...


http://service.gm.com/gmtechlink/images/issues/aug03/TLaug03e.html#story9


The waiting begins again...

I just saw elsewhere on this website that the new transmission will be rated at 600 ft-lbs!! It looks like that new engine will have more torque after all.

99mo, is this going to make you wait?? Good luck with whatever your decision is......




Bob