Well iam thinking of trading my 03 Duramax for the new 04 GMC Sierra 1500LD SLT Crewcab Z-71. Reason i dont really need this heavy of a truck, i dont pull anything or haul anything heavy & the roads here in Houston are really rough for a 3/4 ton truck. Iam probably going to be getting around 27-28,000 for my truck on trade & will be buying the new truck at invoice. I will be about 5K negative on trade but thats the way it goes i guess.

why did you buy the truck then?????





i personally would put a lower load range modest light duty street tire ( say maybe a c range) on the truck since you never tow and that would make it ride a lot better. $5k upside down and a year worth of payments into it, man that a BIG loss........

What he said, or sell it, don't trade it. never ceases to amaze me how many people trade in vehicles rather than selling. Just run a NADA estimate on it and you'll see it's worth much more to you selling than trading. You can probably break even instaed of being 5k upside down!

If it's just an issue of riding rough - I would go for a set of bilstiens and michelin LTX tires; The stock shocks don't have enough slow speed rebound dampening - bounce ya all over the place. I have the rougher riding Michelins - ATX I think, for highway comfort I would opt for the LTX (more of a street tread). Even the ATX gives a pretty smooth ride - I do run at 60 psi all the way round when unloaded.


With the michelins and the bilstiens, it's a different truck;


- jeffEdited by: dmax lover

gsx and oldman,


Trading in also saves you the tax difference so the number isn't as bad as it looks. Also the market to buy used is soft. Very few people will buy used when the prices are so close to new with the rebates that are available. My 2003 crewcab dually wouldn't sell for over 3 months priced at 35,000, a loaded LT crewcab dually in perfect condition with 5000 grand in extra's. Traded it for 31500, with the tax savings of 2756 that equals 34,256. Then I sold some of the extras that I would have normally left in it if I sold it privately and came out with a total of 35,650. Which is 650 more than I would have gotten with the private sale. So depending on your situation and the fact that used vehicle aren't moving at this point in time ,trading isn't really that bad. Dave

Always Remember, The Diesel is worth $9k retail over a gas motor truck.


Squeeze them for every dime if you trade!

OK Dave, I can understand that. Almost. Where is this tax savings coming from? I'm not sure what you mean. You have to pay taxes when you sell a vehicle? As far as market goes, it is a sellers market up here. Very few stay unsold for very long.

I do have bilsteins on truck since 5000 miles. I checked NADA for a price but it said N/A. The ride is really rough compared to the new 1500 1/2 ton crewcab. Iam not real sure yet on what iam going to do anyways. I should try different tires but once you put on cant take back. Plus if i sell out rite then i have to haggle with people over price & if they can get financed, and with the sales tax its really like iam getting almost 29-30K for it . Edited by: fishingn

Are you out of your mind????http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif If only I knew this 4 months ago we could have traded!!! I just did the opposite of you!! I traded my 1500 for the D-max because the 1500 had one of those knockers in it!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif Then at 30K miles she started blowing smoke!! I don't tow anything either, and yes the ride is a little harder, but I will NEVER EVER go back to one of those crappy gassers again!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Down.gif Not to mention the awesome mpg I get with the diesel!! My 5.3 never got more than 15mpg on a trip empty!! The D-max is getting close to 20!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif And if you get a 6.0L forget about.....you're going to LIVE at the gas station!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif





Think LONG AND HARD before trading a diesel for a gasser!! Most people I run into with the gasser tell me they wish they spent the extra $$$ for the dmax!! After having both, I know I will never go back!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

The 1500 has the 5.3 vortec in it & not the gas hog 6.0L. Like i said iam not 100% sure iam going to do it anyways. Thanx for all the comments about this. Iam thinking long & hard about it now....

OK Dave, I can understand that. Almost. Where is this tax savings coming from? I'm not sure what you mean. You have to pay taxes when you sell a vehicle? As far as market goes, it is a sellers market up here. Very few stay unsold for very long.


When you trade in your truck they deduct that amount from the price of the vehicle before taxes are figured. When you pay cash they take the price of the vehicle add tax to it and the subtract your downpayment. So it cost you a little bit more to deal with cash when you buy a new vehicle than when you trade. (on paper) The truth to the matter is right now your lucky to get wholesale from a dealer so almost always your going to comeout ahead selling out right IMO.

I normally don't comment on these types of things ... BUT ... Why not get a set of 1500 rear leaf springs and replace your stiff rear springs. My front is way more bouncy than a half-ton and almost all of my harsh ride comes from the stiff rear.


Way less than $5k.

Here ya go ...and save a whole lot of money.
http://www.lord.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=489
Put these on and you will think you are in a lexus. Oh, also let soem air out of your tires that will make a world of difference. i got the 04 3500 and it rode like a buckboard empty, I lowered the tire pressure from 65 to 45 and I gotta tell ya, it rides like a 1500.

fishingn


You want to consider fuel economy as a reason to keep it. My 02 Silverado gets 25-30% better milage than my 95 Yukon got, and where I live, diesel runs about $0.40 a gallon cheaper.

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Kendall, any noticeable mpg decreases from lower tire pressure???


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fishingn,


Been there, done that (not enough time or room in this forum to go into the details!!). Keep the dmax and go with some new shocks and lower load range tires like a D or C. It is easier to soften up the 2500HD for a light load, than it is to really haul something other than groceries in the 1500LD.

Here ya go ...and save a whole lot of money.
http://www.lord.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=489
Put these on and you will think you are in a lexus. Oh, also let soem air out of your tires that will make a world of difference. i got the 04 3500 and it rode like a buckboard empty, I lowered the tire pressure from 65 to 45 and I gotta tell ya, it rides like a 1500.


This is of great interest! Lord products have lots of credibility. Have you noticed any changes in handing after you installed these?

woodrow1 I don't have these, but as I was cruisin the web trying to solve the problem and I found these, also guys are yakin about air bags, for a better ride.

sky1 I havn.t noticred any difference in MPG, but the way I look at it what I save in kindey and liver damage at 65 lbs. is worth it.;)

The 1500 has the 5.3 vortec in it &amp; not the gas hog 6.0L. Like i said iam not 100% sure iam going to do it anyways. Thanx for all the comments about this. Iam thinking long &amp; hard about it now....


Fisningn,


Good for you; sometimes it isn't the money and it isn't logical, but we know what we have to do.


I sold a perfectly good 2002 - 2500 Avalanche because the rear visibility was awful. It was a good rig, with a smooth ride and fabulous power (8.1 liter), but several near-accidents caused me to dump it.


I test drove the 2500 HD DuraMax and the ride was just hideous. Gad, potholes and rough roads were painful and off-road use bounced me all over the front seat. Hey, I'm as macho as the next guy, but this was rediculous.


Like you, I don't haul much and seldom tow. Other than the macho-man stuff, a half ton truck truly serves out needs just fine.


Anyway, I ended up buying a 2003 Chevy Z-71 LT EC/SB with the wonderful 5.3 engine. The truck rides like a dream and it tows my 19' Nash travel trailer just fine. Iit didn't even complain when we hauled our winters meat out of the bush last fall (515 lb Asian water buffalo and a 426 lb yak). Buying the Z-71 was the best thing I've ever done. Didn't make financial sense, but I love the Z-71 and I'm happy.


The 5.3 engine will give you excellent power and it is economical. I commonly get 14-15 around town (Portland, OR) and 20 on the freeway. I drove from here to Pierre, SD last summer and got 19.9 mpg on the entire trip.


I saw the new Z-71 crew cab at the Portland Auto Show and it is a very classy rig. It's even more useable than my EC/SB, and that's going some.


Just think how simple life can be; no worring about diesel fuel quality. No secondary fuel filter to fret about. And no ejectors bothering your mind. With the gasser, you just fill 'er up and she goes.


We were so darned happy with the Z-71 that I bought a new 2004 Tahoe LT with EVERY possible option last month. Same great mileage, fabulous ride and a hauling capacity that is surely adequate for most folks.


Go for it, my friend, and enjoy every mile in your new Z-71 crew cab. We'll recognize you - you'll be the guy with the HUGE smile on your face. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


SteveEdited by: MuleDeer

Had a 2001 z-71 5.3 L SLE with 4:10 differential. Was a nice truck but even empty it was short of power. It would downshift in places my old 6.5 never thought of and in heavy wind. When I was hooked up to my 5vr it would go as fast as you wanted, screaming along in 2nd gear at 5500 rpm. I don't tow that much either but I'll tell you even on the straight empty run the duramax is the only way to go, especially since you already have it. If you change back - you'll be sorry. I kicked my butt around the block for trading off my 6.5 on that little gasser untill I finally gave up at 8000 miles, took the loss and got back into a diesel. Just my 2 cents!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif

MuleDeer,


Just curious...how many miles on your Z-71?? When I first bought mine, I loved it....said I would keep it until it dies.....never thought it would start showing signs of dying at 30K miles though!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


Ran great until it hit that 10-15K mile range. That's when the engine knock started (at first it sounded like that tick you hear from the fuel injection, but then got worse and it became apparant that it was a low end knock!....also had some value noise, but that didn't bother me as much.).....also mpg started dropping at that point! First year I too got 19mpg on a trip, but by 30K miles, I was lucky I was getting 15!!


Then about 2K miles away from my warranty expiring, she started puffing smoke at start-up!! That's when I had enough......traded that thing in for the Dmax and haven't looked back!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Who know's, maybe I was one of the few who had problems, just like there are a few that have problems with the Dmax. All I'm saying is that I've owned both, and would take the diesel over the gas any day!!

I only tow a 7000lb trailer, and I too wanted a softer and better handling ride. What I did was free, so you should try it before giving up on the Duramax. I removed the longest leaf from each rear spring pack, and lowered the front torsen bars until the axles and tie rods were parallel to the ground. Believe me, it makes a big difference, and you think you have a 1500.


And the springs no longer overpower the stock shocks.Edited by: Amric

I have to agree about the ride, on Black top it rides great, but on this crappy Cement Freeways in LA, it rides ROUGH.


I am ready to upgrade to Bilsteins soon, but even then, I have heard they improve the perfomance but not the Rough ride,


I have heard Velvet ride Shackles help, but not as much as most people would like. Ugh!!!!


The only people who seem completely satisfied are the ones with the Air bags, but pricey $$$. Still looking for a reasonable solutionhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif


Any info would be appreciated

MuleDeer thanx for the positive comment.


Guess the only concern i have is what kinda MPG i will be getting the sticker says 15/18 but i think thats based on doing 55 mph &amp; not 70 mph or am i wrong. Also the bed is a little bit shorter than mine,guess they had to make some room somewhere. Actually my payments will be dropping by $25-40 a month. Iam still not real sure what iam going to do yet. The Z-71 will be here tomorrow &amp; i will go and test drive it and decide. THe Dmax is an awesome machine but not really using it what it was designed for....

MuleDeer thanx for the positive comment.


Guess the only concern i have is what kinda MPG i will be getting the sticker says 15/18 but i think thats based on doing 55 mph &amp; not 70 mph or am i wrong. Also the bed is a little bit shorter than mine,guess they had to make some room somewhere. Actually my payments will be dropping by $25-40 a month. Iam still not real sure what iam going to do yet. The Z-71 will be here tomorrow &amp; i will go and test drive it and decide. THe Dmax is an awesome machine but not really using it what it was designed for....





Fishingn,


From my experience, with my two 5.3s, the 15mpg/city is about one mpg high. Getting 18 mpg on the road is a slam-dunk and 20mpg is doable. Actually, I often get 19-sh at 70-75mph.


I'm like you; I drove three-quarter ton rigs for years and thought of the half-tons as weenie-rigs. I was a heavy-duty dude and my truck showed it!!!! My recent realization that the half-ton better suited my needs was quite an awakening.


Personally, I tow a trailer about 500 miles per year. And I haul animals we harvest, but even then the weight is not extreme. Interestingly, the three-quarter ton Chevys have significantly LESS ground clearance than the Z-71, which makes the Z better for my hunting needs. Just take a trip to the dealership and compare the heighths of the rear differential between the HD and the Z-71 abd you'll see what I mean.


Anyway, my point is: Why should we suffer a harsh ride and diesel problems 100% of the time when we only need the HD aspect for 1% of the truck's use? I'd rather enjoy the rig 99% of the time (by using a half-ton) and work around the problems for the remaining 1% (maybe by using a utility trailer).


Yeah, contractors and concrete guys probably need the HD, but a lot of us recreational users really don't, except for our ego. Maybe that's why half-ton trucks outnumber three-quarter tons about 5:1 on the road. Ya figger? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Don't worry about the mileage, my friend. Just be sure to get the 3.73 rear end (pretty standard) and your mileage will be swell.


Basically, what I'm saying is that as a general rule, moderation is best. Yes, you can kill a mule deer with a .460 Weatherby, but the additional power isn't needed (plus the recoil is painful and the trajectory sucks). Likewise, you probably wouldn't use big game fishing gear, two-hundred pound line and a huge rod/reel, to catch a chinook salmon. Nor would you use a .223 Remington for the mule deer or ultra-light fishing gear for the salmon. Moderation leads to happiness.


I hauled out 515 pound and 426 pound critters (plus camping equipment) out of the bush just fine. And I've towed out travel trailer over Mount Hood and into the bush country of Eastern Oregon. The 5.3 liter engine down-shifted a bit, but it was adequate for the chore. For the one-percent that I tow, it just isn't worth the added discomfort and expense of a diesel.


Obviously, if a guy towed a lot and/or filled the bed with gravel, the DuraMax would be preferred. Hey, the rig must match the average use; that's only sensible.


I'm getting to be an old duffer, sixty-one in a few months. Ego and macho are lost concepts to me now and I'm totally satisfied with the Z-71 and it's mere 300 horsepower (with the K&amp;N air cleaner).


Oh, by the way, my Z-71/5.3 has averaged precisely 16.83 mpg in it's lifetime with me. Obviously, that is a mix of city and highway. I am delighted with that.


Hope some of this rambling

I have a 03 Z-71 EC/SB and absolutlely HATE it... I have a 3000 GVW 18 FT. fold down camper and it will not pull it, I told dealer and GM these pickups should never be sold with a trailer hitch option and they will not pull anything. It shifts constantly, if you like to tow a tiny trailer and run in 2nd gear at 5200 rpms go ahead and get a 5.3. It is okay truck if you never hook anything behind but look out if you do. I have kept track of every gallon in this toy truck and for the year I have averaged 13.67 mpg for the 24,000 miles. I am trading mine for a duramax very soon, will not be cheap but I have put up with this thing long enough.
I Sure hope I am happy with the diesel.
Larry

fishingn,


I also did the opposite of what you're thinking of doing.


I traded my 03 Chevy Silverado K1500 LT (5.3L) for my new 04 Chevy K2500HD and I will never look back. The K1500 was ok, but I really LOVE my Duramax. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


It doesn't much matter what everyone here writes, it's going to be ALL your decision to make on what you want to live with. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

fishingn,


I also did the opposite of what you're thinking of doing.


I traded my 03 Chevy Silverado K1500 LT (5.3L) for my new 04 Chevy K2500HD and I will never look back. The K1500 was ok, but I really LOVE my Duramax. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


It doesn't much matter what everyone here writes, it's going to be ALL your decision to make on what you want to live with. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif








SteveNorCal,


Absolutely. Every guy must make his own choice; we're just here, trying to help as much as we can.


We are all friends, helping another friend.


Steve

I only tow a 7000lb trailer, and I too wanted a softer and better handling ride. What I did was free, so you should try it before giving up on the Duramax. I removed the longest leaf from each rear spring pack, and lowered the front torsen bars until the axles and tie rods were parallel to the ground. Believe me, it makes a big difference, and you think you have a 1500.


And the springs no longer overpower the stock shocks.





Pretty interesting, if this works, and is free, I'd strongly suggest you trying this out before taking a $5K hit and ending up with a lesser truck.


Another consideration is to get a car with the 5K that satisfies your smooth ride requirements and keep your HD truck. This is how I personally deal with this dilemna.


Your Chevy $tealer must LOVE you.Edited by: plrod

I've pretty much decided to keep the DMax. I have 0% for 60 months &amp; already made 9 payments. I will just keep this truck for another 2 -3 years till iam in better shape to trade out of. I really appreciate all the input everyone had to give me...It did make me think about it a little more. If they woulda had the truck in stock i would be driving it rite now &amp; probaby be regretting it in a month or so...

Fishingn,


That's probably wise.


Who knows what cool stuff GM will develop in the next couple of years?


It's getting near time for a general overhaul of the GM truck appearance and it would suck to love the look of the new trucks.


Also, the General is close to bringing the D-O-D engine(s) public. Displacement On Demand engines run on 4, 6 or 8 cylinders, depending on the load. It would start in 8-cylinder mode and cruise down the highway on 6 or 4, depending on grade and need. With today's computers, it is quite practical.


The GM D-O-D engine is supposed to increase mileage approximately 20%.


The 2500 HD isn't for me, but I could surely see myself in a crew cab/short bed 2500 light duty with a D-O-D gas engine.


Anyway, your plan of waiting is a good one. Meanwhile, enjoy the heck our of your Duramax, my friend.


Steve

woodrow1 I don't have these, but as I was cruisin the web trying to solve the problem and I found these, also guys are yakin about air bags, for a better ride.

sky1 I havn.t noticred any difference in MPG, but the way I look at it what I save in kindey and liver damage at 65 lbs. is worth it.;)


I did not know that these things were made, but it seems like a good idea that may just work! I have decided to shoot crap and order a pair, hopefully they will work out well and the unloaded ride will improve. Kidney damage is not a fun subject to be sure. I will report back to the group as to how this works out. In any event, thanks for the tip and letting me know about this hardware.

Sounds to me like you are considering jumping out of the frying pan into the fire, fishingn. Nothing holds its value better used than a Duramax. I can't imagine having any problems selling one. I wish I could buy a dozen.


The Max will hold its value much better than a gasser 1500 and if you're lowering your payments while 5k hooked, you must be extending the term to 72 or 84 months. You'll be 7 grand hooked this time next year. Think about what you are doing.


If you don't like the truck, retail it. Take your time and get the most for it. Think about how you got 5 grand hooked and don't repeat the mistake or make your situation worse.

When i bought the truck i got it for under invoice by about $400. Reason iam 5K negative is the amount of miles on it 27K in only 9 months. I've decided iam going to keep the beast &amp; just wait till iam in better shape to trade or i may try to sell it outrite. The GM Buypower guy called me today &amp; said the Z-71 came in last nite....Think iam going to pass on it rite now.....