I've already mentioned that my service department doesn't seem completely on the ball;they still swear about not having any idea of the option for 2nd alternator. Anyway...


This morning I talked to the service writer and the diesel tech about secondary pre-filtration. They caim to be unaware of the use of these systems. The writer then mentioned that "adding any aftermarket parts would void the warranty."


I told him it was my uderstanding that if it was pre as opposed to post, there were not any issues. He reperated himself, stating "any" additions. The tech did seem interested, though, so I told them I'd print out info on the nicktane kit and bring it in so they could see what's involved.


This dealer obviously does not know about other dealers installing these systems with no talk about warranties.


The tech did say they've seen plenty of injection failures, but claimed that it was not due to contamination of fuel, but that "the injectors were coming apart from the inside." I did not feel like asking him why he thought that might be happening...


Anyway, before I seek out other more educated dealers in the area or make calls to GM, what is everyone's experience- is it a warranty void or is it not?


Thanks!

Gm has done extensive research and come up with the following high quality filter.

Filters to 400 micron at 5%.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/8ZC_ET-15-1912.jpg

<DIV>Rumor has it as the Racor setup has GM's blessing.</DIV>

If you do encounter fuel related problems, I believe they need to prove that your filter caused the problems. Personally, I'd find another dealer thats a little more flexable. These guys sound as if they might blame fuel problems on low pressue in your tires if they could get away with it.

Bottom line any dealer can void any and all parts of a warranty once you put on any other parts other than factory items.

If you lift a truck they can deny, drivetrain and all related tarts, put on larger tires they can deny any and all suspension parts, add performance enhancements, there goes your engine warranty, Don't change your oil or fluids per spec, ( and have PERFECT PROOF) good bye on those parts.

Now let me explain, will they?, who knows, but they can and sometimes will use any excuse to not have to service what they manufacture. Even if you put larger tires on your truck they can scream foul.

They know most people will not go out and hire a scheister lawyer and fight them.

Sure there are laws that state otherwise, but agin you have to hire a scheister lawyer.

And when the shoe is on the other foot they also will fight tooth and nail to prove their point.

I purchased a NEW truck once that was damaged and repaired ( rear quarter panel) and I had proof when a tech left a computer print out in my truck indicating the damage prior to delivery. I still had to fight for three years even with hard proof.

Scheister lawyer fees 60K, but in this case they had to pay and all worked out well, but it taught me a lesson dealing with manufactures and scheister lawyers.

Also I have read plenty of people who are on the wrong side of the warranty due to mods.

Do as you wish, but buyer beware.

Print off a copy of the Racor product bulletin for their setup and show it to them. Point out the part where it says "consult your Racor distributor or GMC truck dealer for installation assistance"...


That's what I did and got their blessing. I also bought the Racor kit because of that.

There are many service techs and SM's and all seem to interpret the manufacturer's warranty in different ways. The bottom line is that GM has to prove that your mods caused a component failure.


When talking about adding a second fuel filter, that filters the fuel BEFORE it reaches the OEM filter, GM would not prevail if the matter were escalated to a court of law. The second filter is providing cleaner fuel than the OEM filter would have received had the second filter not been there.

Find another Dealer! Had my Nicktane installed by my dealer, they thought it was a Great Idea!


If your Tech can't get his head out of his a$$, find someone else that knows more about these engines then you do, and by the way, I do have a 2nd Alternator,,,,,,,,,,I'd say Run, don't walk......http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Zeeb
Where did you get a copy of the Racor Product Bulletin?

GM was not involved in the development of the kit, Racor made it up specifically for use on our trucks hence the WIF sensor and wiring. GM ties are there becuase thats the setup they like the best as it contains the WIF and the heater. Engineering has said numerous times that they dont feel a secondary filter is needed, but if you thought you needed one, this is the one they like.

If GM doesn't think added filtration is needed, what do they think the problem is? Lubricity?


But then, they aren't keen on additives either.

The bottom line is that GM has to prove that your mods caused a component failure.


What good does that do when you're sitting there with a truck that won't run.

While the idea of adding additional filtration seems of interest to me, I don't see the payback at this point in time. Without the filtration, GM will replace the injectors at no cost (less deductible) anytime before the mileage hits 100k. If one does add filtration, there is a chance they "may" void (or claim to void) the warranty. The truck may be fixed, after much pain and effort. Plus, there is no conclusive evidence to prove that the additional filtration decreases the chance of injector failures (which GM will cover anyway). To me, the only time there is a potential payback is adding the filtration after the mileage exceeds 100k. Even then, there is no data to prove one or the other is better.

To me, the bottom line is that adding filtration before 100k miles is like having two insurance policies when one has almost 100% coverage. The second policy won't pay.

Zeeb
Where did you get a copy of the Racor Product Bulletin?


http://www.o-f-i.com/sec/Racor_Fuel_Filter_Duramax.pdf


That's OFI's web site and the link has the Racor product bulletin along with installed pics of the filter and guard.

GM doesn't have to prove anything. When you pull up with mods that they don't agree with they can simply refuse to work on your truck and then type a note in "THE SYSTEM" that tells every dealer not to work on your rig, period. It's like the sign says, No shiirt, No shoes NO SERVICE.

What you might try is handing them the system and pay to have their tech put it on, in that case you are fully covered by GM. Of course you are going to pay up the wahzoo, but at least you will be covered.

If GM doesn't think added filtration is needed, what do they think the problem is? Lubricity?


But then, they aren't keen on additives either.

If you look in the warranty booklet that came with your truck there are several emission warrantys that are in effect. One from GM, one federal, one from the state of california, etc. The truck is required by law to be designed to meet emissions standards (federal or state) for the given period.

If GM steps up and says that a lubricity additive (or filtration) is needed to meet this goal, the EPA (or CARB in California) would not be too happy with them.

Based on what I have seen, I believe the problem is lubricity - this is what bosch thinks, so why should I think any differently. The bosch presentation is an admission by Bosch that the truck might not reliably meet emissions for the duration of the federal emissions warranty. It depends on the quality of your fuel. They did a sampling in the summer of 2002 and it showed that 40-50% of the fuel in the U.S. did not meet the measure of lubricity required by Bosch (450 micron wear scar diameter @ 60 degrees Centigrade High Frequency Reciprocating Rig).

The way I see it, GM has only one choice, try to beef up the injectors as best they can and then ride it out until new fuel standards kick in with improved lubricity (2006?)

Me, I don't want the truck to strand my wife on the side of the road. So, I am adding a good lubricity additive (only Rotella and Stanadyne meet specs needed) until the standards committees quit arguing - or until the EPA steps on their weaners.... As a sidenote, the B5 biodiesel is starting to look better and better to me...

By the way, I don't blame GM for the situation, I blame the federal and state governments for not putting complete standards in place. I also blame the fuel suppliers for not proactively trying to protect my very expensive piece of equipment; Instead, the oil companies block the standards committees from passing a good lubricity standard. They don't want to spend additional money on fuel treatment (additization).


- jeff



Edited by: dmax lover

This discussion brings me to another question concerning the stanadyne: how often does one need to add it? Every tank of diesel, every third tank? Are there variables (like climate you are in) that dictate how often to use it?

This discussion brings me to another question concerning the stanadyne: how often does one need to add it? Every tank of diesel, every third tank? Are there variables (like climate you are in) that dictate how often to use it?

For sufficient lubricity, every tank. Stanadyne lubricity formula is cheaper (a 16 ounce bottle is less expensive than performance formula and treats twice as much fuel).

BTW, just found an article that states that ULSD (ultra low sulfer diesel) is being phased in - so 20% of fuel may be crappy until 2010...

Look here (http://www.industryclick.com/magazinearticle.asp?magazineid=107&releaseid=11344&magazinearticleid=176952&siteid=2)Edited by: dmax lover