Deadeye
01-31-2006, 12:38 AM
Since I been chattin' with a number of guys who have bought/installed SBC SMF/DDC kits seemed a good idea to post some more info.
First of all I would recommend you read these if you have not previously:
http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51188&highlight=diesel+spike
http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=787502#post787502
So if you understand now about diesel spike it is pretty obvious that torsional harmonic vibration is gonna trash anything that is not stout (like a DMF that has springs, lousy metal, studs, and too many parts that get loose - BTW I posted some pics of a disassembled DMF somewhere on this forum). How the vibration sounds will depend on the type of components which it flows through. All the SMFs on pickups and on semi's rattle. There are aftermarket products made to absorb some of the vibration and sound (I sell some on my website if interested).
At low rpms in neutral the engine is gonna transfer vibration thru the flywheel to the clutch plate hubs to the input shaft splines and then into the tranny. When you push the pedal down the plates are seperated from the vibration and the noise and vibration disappears. At higher rpms the vibration is still there but is not as noticable for obvious reasons. As lovethesmellofdiesel posted, ZF is confident that a SMF and the torsional harmonic vibration is not gonna kill the ZF6. Well, probably not soon or easily but almost every thing on this planet goes south eventually (sorry Dixie guys ):h ).
On the SMF/DDC kit at idle when you depress the pedal you will hear what I call a "whisk" noise as the clutch plates are barely touching the flywheel, floaterplate, and pressure plate. Part of this noise is also do to the floater plate that is not strapped to the flywheel (like the CPMacs). Pressure may eventually impact the flatness of the floater plate but since it is not strapped to the flywheel it will not put unbalanced pressure on the clutch plates which would trash them faster. The noise will be a little different for Ceramic vs Feramic buttons. My guess is that the slave cylinder may also have some impact on how close all the parts are when spinning. The slave cylinder should back off about 1/2 inch when the pedal is pushed in but the pressure plate will only move about 3/16 of an inch (let me know if you see something different). You can view the movement thru the hole on the passenger side of the bell housing but you may not see the correct movement until the truck has been run up and down the street (more later.)
Different installations have reported several different results so I think there are some actions to be aware of.
Make sure the alignment pin hole fits ok. Be real careful in ratcheting the allen head bolts just about a half turn on each until they all get evenly tight. Check the balance by turning the flywheel before you bolt on the pressure plate. (Sanding the outside of the crankshaft and the inside of the flywheel and putting just a little grease on will help tighten the flywheel down evenly.)
The pressure plate fingers are stiff. When you get ready to reinstall the tranny you will not be able to push it easily as you would with a stock flywheel. Here is the solution: Get 2 or 4 bell housing bolts about 3/4" longer. Push the tranny input shaft into the pressure plate hole and turn the rear output shaft until the input shaft will slide into the clutch plate spline hubs. Push the tranny until it is about 3/4" as far as supposed to be (which is as far as you will get it by hand). Align the tranny bell housing parallel to the flywheel and the rear engine block plate. From behind the tail of the tranny, check to ensure all the bolt holes are lined up perfectly. OK, now install the extra bolts opposite of each, and easily, slowly and carefully rachet them in until the bell housing gets close enough to be able to connect the stock bell housing bolts. Make sure the bell housing, flywheel, and rear enging block plate always remain parallel while turning in the bolts.
VERY IMPORTANT: Always keep the tranny aligned such that the input shaft does not put angle pressure on the clutch plates. They are steel plates and if they get bent they will not perform as designed and there will be additional noise and vibration.
Another fun experience I have had a number of times. Got done and ready to test and the clutch pedal was soft. Pump a lot of times no change. In one case could shift with the engine off but not when running!! What a head ache!!:confused: The problem has been solved several times as follows: Put it in gear to get out of the shop/garage. Start the engine and run it down the street several hundred yards. If you can shift then go ahead. If not, shut it off change the shift (forward or reverse) and run it again and the problem should be solved!! This has been the strangest part of all the installs I have done but it works.
Before you do an install it would be a good idea to have a t-case gasket, new flywheel bolts, spare hydraulic line "horse shoe" connector pin (you drop yours it is gone and you are shut down:blahblah: ) and maybe a new slave cylinder. If you don't need them you can return them to the dealer but if do and you don't have them you may be shut down until Monday. :badidea:
There are other tips in my installation instructions and I will help whoever needs some, just call.
Finally, just so you know before you buy ANY aftermarket flywheel: Like two sides of every coin there are differences. You are used to a stock flywheel clutch kit. The aftermarket is different for a reason. Stronger and more reliable and will hold a lot more power. Other side of the coin, vibration, a different noise, a little grabby (pressure plate pressure for power :ro) ), and the pedal is a little harder.
Hope this helps answer a few concerns and questions.
Wish you all luck and would love to see posts on your install and test experiences as well as you "killing" runs with your new flywheel.
Good Luck.
John
First of all I would recommend you read these if you have not previously:
http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51188&highlight=diesel+spike
http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=787502#post787502
So if you understand now about diesel spike it is pretty obvious that torsional harmonic vibration is gonna trash anything that is not stout (like a DMF that has springs, lousy metal, studs, and too many parts that get loose - BTW I posted some pics of a disassembled DMF somewhere on this forum). How the vibration sounds will depend on the type of components which it flows through. All the SMFs on pickups and on semi's rattle. There are aftermarket products made to absorb some of the vibration and sound (I sell some on my website if interested).
At low rpms in neutral the engine is gonna transfer vibration thru the flywheel to the clutch plate hubs to the input shaft splines and then into the tranny. When you push the pedal down the plates are seperated from the vibration and the noise and vibration disappears. At higher rpms the vibration is still there but is not as noticable for obvious reasons. As lovethesmellofdiesel posted, ZF is confident that a SMF and the torsional harmonic vibration is not gonna kill the ZF6. Well, probably not soon or easily but almost every thing on this planet goes south eventually (sorry Dixie guys ):h ).
On the SMF/DDC kit at idle when you depress the pedal you will hear what I call a "whisk" noise as the clutch plates are barely touching the flywheel, floaterplate, and pressure plate. Part of this noise is also do to the floater plate that is not strapped to the flywheel (like the CPMacs). Pressure may eventually impact the flatness of the floater plate but since it is not strapped to the flywheel it will not put unbalanced pressure on the clutch plates which would trash them faster. The noise will be a little different for Ceramic vs Feramic buttons. My guess is that the slave cylinder may also have some impact on how close all the parts are when spinning. The slave cylinder should back off about 1/2 inch when the pedal is pushed in but the pressure plate will only move about 3/16 of an inch (let me know if you see something different). You can view the movement thru the hole on the passenger side of the bell housing but you may not see the correct movement until the truck has been run up and down the street (more later.)
Different installations have reported several different results so I think there are some actions to be aware of.
Make sure the alignment pin hole fits ok. Be real careful in ratcheting the allen head bolts just about a half turn on each until they all get evenly tight. Check the balance by turning the flywheel before you bolt on the pressure plate. (Sanding the outside of the crankshaft and the inside of the flywheel and putting just a little grease on will help tighten the flywheel down evenly.)
The pressure plate fingers are stiff. When you get ready to reinstall the tranny you will not be able to push it easily as you would with a stock flywheel. Here is the solution: Get 2 or 4 bell housing bolts about 3/4" longer. Push the tranny input shaft into the pressure plate hole and turn the rear output shaft until the input shaft will slide into the clutch plate spline hubs. Push the tranny until it is about 3/4" as far as supposed to be (which is as far as you will get it by hand). Align the tranny bell housing parallel to the flywheel and the rear engine block plate. From behind the tail of the tranny, check to ensure all the bolt holes are lined up perfectly. OK, now install the extra bolts opposite of each, and easily, slowly and carefully rachet them in until the bell housing gets close enough to be able to connect the stock bell housing bolts. Make sure the bell housing, flywheel, and rear enging block plate always remain parallel while turning in the bolts.
VERY IMPORTANT: Always keep the tranny aligned such that the input shaft does not put angle pressure on the clutch plates. They are steel plates and if they get bent they will not perform as designed and there will be additional noise and vibration.
Another fun experience I have had a number of times. Got done and ready to test and the clutch pedal was soft. Pump a lot of times no change. In one case could shift with the engine off but not when running!! What a head ache!!:confused: The problem has been solved several times as follows: Put it in gear to get out of the shop/garage. Start the engine and run it down the street several hundred yards. If you can shift then go ahead. If not, shut it off change the shift (forward or reverse) and run it again and the problem should be solved!! This has been the strangest part of all the installs I have done but it works.
Before you do an install it would be a good idea to have a t-case gasket, new flywheel bolts, spare hydraulic line "horse shoe" connector pin (you drop yours it is gone and you are shut down:blahblah: ) and maybe a new slave cylinder. If you don't need them you can return them to the dealer but if do and you don't have them you may be shut down until Monday. :badidea:
There are other tips in my installation instructions and I will help whoever needs some, just call.
Finally, just so you know before you buy ANY aftermarket flywheel: Like two sides of every coin there are differences. You are used to a stock flywheel clutch kit. The aftermarket is different for a reason. Stronger and more reliable and will hold a lot more power. Other side of the coin, vibration, a different noise, a little grabby (pressure plate pressure for power :ro) ), and the pedal is a little harder.
Hope this helps answer a few concerns and questions.
Wish you all luck and would love to see posts on your install and test experiences as well as you "killing" runs with your new flywheel.
Good Luck.
John