Italy told us today that the Duramax nozzles would be shipping in 2 weeks. Again these are custom made nozzles and are NEW not old nozzles or new nozzles that have been extrude honed or and EDM used on. Quality is superior to all other nozzles. The manufacturer inspects ALL nozzles not just a few out of every 100. We have had this same type nozzle in the VW TDI for over a year and have had great success with them.

Greg

Greg, any pricing information yet?

I that the part that malfunctions in our injectors? In other words will installing one of these fix a bad injector.

What is the advantage? More flow?

Yes this is what hangs up or wears out. They will be in stock flow and more flow. Dyno's will tell the story.

Greg

So we can rebuild our own injectors!

Will it be a lot cheaper?

YEs it will be MUCH!! cheaper. I should come in around $125 or less per injector. But the numbers are not final yet do to the euro being up.

Greg

The nozzles are not what is failing in most cases. It is still recommended that nozzles be installed in a "clean room" and dynamically tested prior to installation.

All I can say is according to my source the nozzles are hang up. When testing in the truck and you get X amount of return that means that more fuel is getting past the worn nozzle.

You do have a tiny check ball in the injector that can cause problems too. Other than that the rest is electrical.

Yes they should be assemblied in a clean room. But any good diesel shop can do that. Changing nozzles is not brain surgery and I have seen many done by the DIYerr without any problems.

GregEdited by: LanduytG

This would be a very nice addition to Bosch/GM's current monopoly.


Do they come as a balanced set? Any tolerance numbers?


Any idea what the hang up was? Manufacturability?

I know the injectors for the old IDI engines like my benz were "user-serviceable" to a degree, but I thought the injectors for the high pressure systems would be much less tolerant of error.

If all you are doing is changing nozzles then its not that big a deal. You're not digging into the internals and thats where you could have some major problems.

Greg

The nozzles are not what is failing in most cases. It is still recommended that nozzles be installed in a "clean room" and dynamically tested prior to installation.


JK,


If the nozzles are not failing, then what is?


I am certain there are multiple reasons for injector failures. Do you have any info on the failures and the distribution (%) of each type?





Alan

Eric was just seeing some of this. Sounds like:


A) Cracking


B) pitting/rusting of a ball





I had a set of used nozzles that delivered low, and recovered with severe cleaning. My source tells me the nozzle assemblies actually seem to be quite durable...





These nozzles will be a welcome arrival, but I'd suggest having them tested before installing as the R&R labor sucks!

I guess time will answer all questions.

After attending a meeting with Duramax brand quality manager ( he is the guy who releases and oversee's all the TSB's and PI's) and several field engineers who work on the engine, I learned more about the engine and how/why things are the way they are and several steps in the development stages... anyways, different post for that


There were a series of changes made to the injectors, most recent is around 9/03 when they removed the sulpher from the process of making the body which they suspected was leadiing to stress risers. Thus, cracks. Keep in mind that all of the problems he told us about are visible only in the lab, not the field. The tiny check ball that Greg referred to is above the nozzles in the injector and is subject to ball seat erosion. This is a fairly common failure. Also problem was cracked bodies. Not visable cracks, but cracks. Another way to tell a problem was to look at the staked ball in the side of the injector. If the ball is recessed, thats a good thing. If the ball is out then return flow was likely way to high. While I think the nozzles are a step in the right direction, they wont help any unless you have good injectors to start with, its a gamble to say that we can 'fix' them with these nozzles, regardless of the quality. I will be preparing a post/thread outlining all of the discussion from the nearly 2 hour long meeting. There is alot of info that most of you will be suprised to hear.

Looking for post..........

YES Eric... thanks for sharing.

John and Eric,


Thanks for the reply.


Being in an engineering environment myself, I know for a fact the GM/DMAX_Limited/Bosch would surely be tracking the injector issues. Eventually some good information will get out to us "end users" of the DMAX product with respect to injectors. Like most people here, I am extremely pleased with the truck. I also want to do everything possible (and within reason) to extend the injector life on my truck.


Lets see, stress cracks, there is probably not much I or anyone can do about those. If they are there from the manufacturing process I guess one can just hope for the best.


The tiny check ball, which appears to be subject to ball seat erosion. This sounds possibly like a fuel cleanliness issue. Maybe caused by lack of fuel lubricity also. So possibly we the end user can have an impact here. Clean-up the fuel as much as possible and use a good additive.


This is where it would be good to hear from GM on what we can do. However, because the way our society works, once GM acknowledges a problem/issue, then the lawsuits start. So it is unlikely we will ever hear anything directly, just through indirect sources.


Looking forward to your write-up Eric.





Thanks,


Alan

I agree with O C Dmax that at present all we can do is filter the fuel and add lubricity and hope for the best.


As a consequence, my Nicktane filter is presently in transit to me and I'm running a home cooked additive. It consists of 8oz Amsoil ADM & 8oz Amsoil synthetic 2 cycle injector oil per tank of fuel. The ADM helps keep things clean and gum free, etc. and hopefully, the 2 cycle syn oil helps with lubricity. May not help, but I don't see how it can hurt!

On a side note. Just got a visit from Mike *******, he is the senior service engineer for Dmax ltd. I have LOTS of good info to share..http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

Bring it on!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I think he's going to let us think about it for awhile.Edited by: FISHHOG

SUSPENCE IS KILLING ME!


HEY JUST MAKE US COME OVER TO YOUR SIGHT TO READ IT. THAT IS THE BEST BUISNESS SOLUTION I HAVE HEARD YET!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif

Guess somethings are hard to wait for huh?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif


Well worth the wait, I promise...Taking bids for preliminary copyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

Thanks Eric. Any part in the injector that see the HP is susceptible to erosion including the solenoid plunger. We knew that the secondary filter would help two years ago. On a side note: My local dealer has a flush system that they have used on three Dmaxes fuel systems to clean the fuel. One was a real mess. All were out of warranty and the customers were ecstatic with the savings. Later! Frank

On a side note: My local dealer has a flush system that they have used on three Dmaxes fuel systems to clean the fuel. One was a real mess. All were out of warranty and the customers were ecstatic with the savings.


You mean a system to flush/clean the injection *system* to resolve some injector issues? Sounds like something very interesting to a high-mileage 2001 owner!!

It ends now? It's can be the end of the thread yet.


ERIC and Frank,http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif Get your buns back on and type in some info......NOW!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif

The cleaning procedure I am aware off is only for cleaning algae etc from the system. I am not aware of a way to do any other type of cleaning.


Hey Chris,,, just cant stand it can yahttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Hey Chris,,, just cant stand it can yahttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif





Nohttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif, and stop gloating like that. I know you are holding back just to torture me too.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif LOL

without any information we could all start a boycott ya think!!!

Although it would be (REALLY) nice to know what injector news is underway with GM (maybe extended warranty??)... the orignal topic was Greg's almost ready to ship injectors. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Fair enough! Eric should start a new thread with the info.


Nozzles due where out and they due get dirty. Replacing just the nozzle can and will make your truck run better.

Greg, back to the subject at hand.. Do these come matched asa set or ? Are they producing these nozzles themselves or buying them from outside source? You mentioned they werent reman's and I was curious what they are using.. What is the warranty on them?

I was just looking on the www.atsdiesel.com (http://www.atsdiesel.com) and they have 90+ hp injectors for the d-Max listed for $1174.00 I think that is for a set of 8 But I am not sure?

Eric


I am in Iowa for the weekend and will be back on Tuesday. The nozzles are all manufactured by the company we are going to be getting them from, every nozzle is inspected for quality. THe needles have a special coating to help against wear. Can't tell you what they are made from and I am sure the manufacture will not release that information. The company has been in the injector business for seveal decades and are deticated to quality. They are matched sets in flow. Warranty I will have to see what the paper work says when I get back.











Greg

Greg, thanks. I think the fact that they may be coming from an outside source is off interest. Curious if they can get it right seems Bosch is having trouble.

Greg, VM have anything to do with them?

The best part about these is that they are available independently from the injector which has been the big hassle all along. I'm anxious to get a set assembled and tested to see what the dynamic flow benefits are!





I've deliberately steered away from performance injectors on exchange basis due to the ferequency of problems with stock injectors, and the potential of receiving junk cores.

Will a bigger injector toatally screw with a level 5 type of program?

I don't know if this would come in handy for the duramax injectors or not, but I just spotted it the other day and thought someone might be interested in it.


Diesel injector nozzle tester OTC / CAT like new:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2467219734&category=43 989&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1


On edit:


Kent Moore
Fuel Injector Flow Test Adapters (4)
J-45873-30 :


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2467341718&category=43 998


Edited by: flhrciblueice

It's a shame that you can buy one of the trucks with a 6.0 or what ever gasser and put a 150k on it and not think to much about it!!but with the diesel which is suppose to in theory out last the rest of the truck you can't afford to run it past the warranty in fear of five grand worth of injectors.I usually trade trucks every couple of years any way but the price of them is going to make me have to keep them longer and even consider buying used in the future problem is how can you spend 5k on injecters on a truck that has a 100k miles on it when it is only worth 10 to 12 grand on a trade! might just have to go back to a gasser and take my 6 grand in diesel savings and by a honda to drive to work!

I don't know if this would come in handy for the duramax injectors or not, but I just spotted it the other day and thought someone might be interested in it.


Diesel injector nozzle tester OTC / CAT like new:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2467219734&category=43 989&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1


On edit:


Kent Moore
Fuel Injector Flow Test Adapters (4)
J-45873-30 :


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2467341718&category=43 998





Hey, thanks, I was looking to get another set of them. Those are the adapter for the return volume tests on the LLY injectors

You're welcome.


BTW, could this be used to flush the allison?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43989&item=2466952 621


Some other tools of interest:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2467566181&category=43 998&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2467175146&category=43 998&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2466796256&category=43 998&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1