Just looking for some ideas on whether to go synthetic oil or stay standard. I have looked in to Amsoil, and read a lot of good things about it, but wanted to hear some ideas on here. I only have 6k now and went through one oil change using Rotella T.
Also..........anyone have a site to order tranny filters, and fuel filters from rather than going to the dealer?



2005 LB CC 4x4 Dmax
Carr Hoop Steps
AirAid
RhinoLining
more to come......

Just looking for some ideas on whether to go synthetic oil or stay standard. I have looked in to Amsoil, and read a lot of good things about it, but wanted to hear some ideas on here. I only have 6k now and went through one oil change using Rotella T.
Also..........anyone have a site to order tranny filters, and fuel filters from rather than going to the dealer?

......

Lots of reading on this subject about Synthetic vs Dino oil, I think it boils down to What do YOU feel comfortable using and how hard do you work your truck and how long you want to go between oil changes. As for the FILTERS, several vendors on this site sell the AC and Allison filters, look into the listed vendors for prices. Good luck and happy reading.

I just want to get the best bang for my buck. I have felt like the oil companies are screwing us so bad recently, that I want to do whatever I can to svae some $$. If that means going 10000 between changes rather than 5000.........then so be it. I dont work my truck that hard. Maybe 6 times a year pulling a 30' travel trailer, other than that, just day to day driving.

Just trying to get opinions from everyone.........this is a great site.:)

You have to extended to reap any benefits. You then need better filtration which adds $. You'll have to weigh the added costs vs. miles you're gonna have the truck to calculate if you'll save $ in the long run. Synthetics are a long term investment.

By using Amsoil and the new Amsoil oil filter you can go 17K miles or once a year for sever duty service which most of use are in. Or if you are not towing and driving a lot of road miles you can go 25K miles or once a year. No need to by a bypass system unless you are gooing to have the truck a long time.

Greg

From the costs I figured, it should work out to be about the same.

I can do a oil and filter change every 5k for about $33 with the Rotella T. I think its about double that for the Amsoil, but you stretch yoiur intervals out 2x and 3x.

Also..........anyone have a site to order tranny filters, and fuel filters from rather than going to the dealer?


http://www.gmdieseltech.com/store2/

He also sells Schaeffer oils which would be a great choice for engine oil. I will be using the 5w40 Supreme 9000 once I get up around 10,000 miles on my truck.

I just changed mine over to the amsoil HDD 5-30 last night with the new synthetic filter. Cost was $65 for the 2.5 gallon jug of oil and $13 for the filter. I am a preferred customer.

65$ for oil everytime sounds a little steep to me. Especially from what Ive seen synthetic do to diesels in the past,,, bot a pretty sight when they cave in with only 3000 hrs on them. Ive never lost an engine because of the dino I use.

i would like to ask one thing though; (not being a smart a$$ either) Do you really trust 50$ worth of oil for 25,000 miles in a $35,000+ truck? i personally dont. and im not knocking those who do.

Spending more doesnt mean your getting more. I would hate to have anyone other than Ford owners, see what Ive seen synthetic motor oils do to engines. The price of your vehicle should never determine the amount you spend on comsumables. I bet after spending what you do on a vehicle you still fill it up with the stinkyest, cheapest, juice you can find.

Oh yeah one more thing,,, Diesel is patroleum based too.:lol:

I know to one Ford owner buddy of mine, slippin in some synthetic in his powerstroke would be considered a sick joke.:lol:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=26;t=000247

I'd sure be happy with a UOA like that. I'd be happy to let someone slip some synthetic in my Dmax or my old Powerstroke.

For arizona - no extreme cold weather - I would go delo-400 15w40 and change it every 7500 miles.

For filters - three nice vendors here that I would feel very good about supporting are www.kennedydiesel.com www.lubespecialist.com and www.gmdieseltech.com

For the tranny - I would only use the allison filter. For the motor, ac-delco or mobil-1

jeff

Been useing Dello 400 15-40 for years and no problems so far ,$1.75 per quart or $17.50 per oil change .change it every 5000 to 7000 miles .

Thanks for all the great info and input guys. I like hearing it from people who have used it rather than the people trying to sell it to me.

If I didn't trust it I wouldn't use it. Most people can't do that right away, they work up to it. Its just like running Amsoil 100:1 2 cycle oil. It took me a long time to do this but I decided too do it in my weedeater first. Well it worked great and thin I did a couple of other things. Now I have in my 85hp jet ski, outboard motor and 400cc Polaris ATV. After all we went to the moon and technoligy has changed so much so way can't oil change too?

Greg

nice avatar bertman and greetings from local 122 will be switching to syn soon

shawn

Thanks Shawn..............let me know how you do, and maybe post some pics of your truck???

i think it depends on how long do you plan to keep your truck? and if you really want to get the most out of every oil change, use analysis, that way there is no guessing.

Greg gives good advice, and won't sell you something you don't need. You have to like that.

I'll add to what he said. If you plan to tow heavy in the summer, get dino out of the motor. Recent testing shows sump oil well in excess of 300 degrees, internally hotter than that. This is beyond viscosity breakdown for mineral oil bases.

Thanks Killerbee.....................but I have no idea what you just said...........lol.

nice avatar bertman and greetings from local 122 will be switching to syn soon

shawn

Grettings to you guys from L-36 . Im still undecided:(

Cosgr:D ve

My turbo experience comes from the Buick world, having owned, modified, and raced an '87 Grand National for 10 years now.

The knowledge there? Don't use dino-oil as it can't handle the extreme temps around the turbo and the coking will eventually destroy the bearings in the turbo. I've only run Mobil 1 in that car and the internals are spotless.

At 10,000 I switched to Amsoil heavy duty for diesels. It's 15W40 and $20 cheaper than having my local Valvoline shop put their heavy-duty synthetic in it. Valvoline wants to change my synthetic every 3,000 miles too!

I'm seriously looking at the new Amsoil filters. Oil and filter once a year or $25,000 miles? Sounds good to me! I can send in a sample for testing periodically just to satisfy me that it's working. I would imagine that you'd be able to tell by the color of the oil on the dipstick too.

My experience? 90,000 on the Buick with synthetic and it's all clean. 230,000 on the K5, Penzoil 5W30 and Fram filter every 5,000 miles, and it still runs fine, but the inside is getting dirty (had the valve covers off recently). I think either way you go is fine, my only concern is dino oil around that hot turbo...

Thanks for your input Loader!!!:cool2:

Coking of the oil in the turbo is normally a concern. But our turbo is water cooled and the new group-II+ and group-III dino oils are built to handle it.

Again, chevron delo-400, can't beat the additive package or the price. Go to medium duty diesel oils on the bobistheoilguy forums and search for delo and I think you will see what I mean. Look at the virgin oil analysis section for the differences between the oils.

jeff

I don't sell it, but I've been using Amsoil since the mid 70's, in every vehicle, generator, boat, etc. KB is right, and it has been proven many times, synthetic holds up to heat better than dino. Some won't believe it or use it, but that doesn't change the facts. Synthetic oil is not OEM strictly because of price - but - several pricey high-end cars do come with it from the factory. Some key components, like our differential, comes w/synth gear lube OEM. If you live in a mild climate, don't tow, etc., you may not need it. The way I see it, my truck costs a lot. A little more for oil is not a big deal. Just yesterday I changed the trans fluid and filter, engine oil and dual remote filters, both differentials and transfer case and refilled with Amsoil products. They were Initially changed to Amsoil right after I took delivery. In the last 30 years worth of vehicles not one has had a drivetrain problem. Believe me, that's a lot of miles. People are funny-my neighbor will not use synthetic oil because it costs more, but he'll drive down to the gulf coast, 100 miles r/t, for dinner 2 or 3 times a month. He agrees though that a restaurant 3 miles away is better. One less trip would probably pay the difference between synth and dino. It boils down to you though--use what you're comfortable with.

Amsoil's full synthetic diesel offerings lack API certifications - namely CI4 and/or CI4+. The only amsoil diesel oil actually meeting this certification is their heavy duty diesel synthetic blend 15w40.

Chevron Delo-400 meets or exceeds API CI4+ specification and amsoil fully synthetic oils do not. Period.

A fully synthetic oil that does meet the API CI4 spec is mobil 1 truck and suv 5w40.

jeff

There is a difference between paying a couple of hundred thousand dollars per oil (Amsoil has 27) just to display that symbol, and the oil meeting that standard. The oil exceeds the API standard, and their guarantee backs up their claims. Each time they upgraded their oil it would have to be recertified, and that would have to be passed on to the consumer. There are a lot of oils on the market that aren't "certified" that meet or exceed the standards, and they say the same thing--"meets API service...

I'm not sure where some get their info but the Amsoil meets the CI-4 and CI-4+. As to cost around here Delo 400 is going for $8 a gallon plus tax. The Amsoil 15W-40 if you buy the 2 10quart jug case with shipping is only $18.70 a gallon and you are getting a true group 4 synthetic. If you use Amsoils new oil filters you can run it between 17K and 25K miles or one year. Most people are in the sever duty service range so the 17K miles would apply. But if you are driving long distances and not towing then its 25K miles. This is the best bang for the buck.

Greg

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil (AME) is a premium diesel oil providing excellent performance in all types of diesel engines where highly effective control of wear and deposits is vital. Built with heavy-duty dispersant/detergent additives, its 12 TBN chemistry neutralizes acids and controls soot thickening from EGR and blow-by to protect against corrosion, cylinder bore polishing (wear) and varnish/sludge deposits. AMSOIL AME resists heat and breakdown better than conventional petroleum oils for long lasting performance and protection.

AMSOIL, the leader in automotive synthetic lubrication, produced the world’s first API qualified synthetic motor oil in 1972. Trust the extensive experience of AMSOIL The First in Synthetics® to do the best job protecting your engine.

Extends Drain Intervals
AMSOIL AME can extend drain intervals far beyond those recommended for conventional petroleum oils. Its unique synthetic formulation and long drain additive system deliver the best possible engine protection, cleanliness and performance over extended drain intervals, reducing vehicle maintenance and waste oil disposal costs.

Advanced Soot and Wear Control Formula
AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil is heavily fortified with detergent/dispersant additives and is naturally resistant to soot. It keeps soot particles suspended independently, preventing them from attaching together to form larger, wear-causing particles. Viscosity increase is minimized and soot related wear is controlled.

Maximizes Fuel Economy, Reduces Oil Consumption and Emissions
AMSOIL AME has lower high temperature volatility (evaporation) than conventional petroleum oils. Because less oil vapor passes into the combustion chamber, oil consumption and emissions are reduced. Lower volatility helps AMSOIL AME retain its viscosity after high temperature service for excellent fuel economy and continued dependable protection.

Excellent Cold Flow Properties
AMSOIL AME remains fluid down to -51°F. It eases cold weather starting and provides vital start-up lubrication to prevent engine wear. AME outperforms conventional 15W-40 petroleum oils and greatly minimizes the impact of cold weather operation.

APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil is engineered for use in a wide variety of light and heavyduty applications, including over-the-road trucks, off road construction, marine engines, farm equipment, mining, industrial (pumps & generators) and personal automotive or commercial transportation. It is excellent for use with low or high sulfur diesel fuels in standard, turbocharged or supercharged engines, including modern low emission diesels such as those equipped with EGR systems.

AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil is recommended for use in diesel engines and other applications requiring any of the listed worldwide specifications and gasoline engines requiring API SL, SJ, SH… or ACEA A3.

API CI-4+, CF, CF-2, SL
ACEA A3/B3, E2, E3, E5
Global DHD-1
JASO DH-1
Mack EO-N Premium Plus '03
DDC Power Guard 93K214
Caterpillar ECF-1
Cummins CES 20071, 20072, 20076, 20077, 20078
Volvo VDS-2, VDS-3
MB 228.1, 228.3, 229.1
MAN 271/3275
MTU Type 2
MIL-PRF-2104G
Allison C-4
MIXING AMSOIL
AMSOIL AME is compatible with conventional and synthetic motor oils. Mixing AMSOIL motor oils with other oils, however, will shorten the oil life expectancy and reduce the performance benefits. AMSOIL does not support extended drain intervals where oils have been mixed.

Aftermarket oil additives are not recommended for use with AMSOIL motor oils.

SERVICE LIFE
AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) vehicles or equipment as follows:

Personal Light Truck Diesel Engine Service

• Normal Service(3) -- Up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first, or longer based on oil analysis.

• Severe Service(4) -- Up to 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first, or longer based on oil analysis.

• Replace AMSOIL Ea™ full flow oil filter or Donaldson Endurance™ ELF 7349 at the time of oil change up to 25,000 miles (other brands at standard OEM* intervals).

Commercial or Fleet Vehicles, Long-Haul Trucks, Marine Craft, RV, Off-Road Equipment

• Non-EGR equipped diesels -- extend drain intervals up to two times (2X) the OEM* recommended drain interval or one year, whichever comes first, or longer based on oil analysis.

• EGR equipped or low emission diesels -- extend drain intervals based on oil analysis or use the OEM* recommended interval.

• Replace Donaldson Endurance™ or AMSOIL Ea™ full flow oil filters at the time of oil change up to two times (2X) longer than the OEM* standard interval, not to exceed 60,000 miles in long-haul trucks.

Gasoline Engine Service

• In gasoline engines, oil drain intervals may be extended up to two times (2X) the OEM* recommended drain interval (not to exceed 15,000 miles without oil analysis) or one year, whichever comes first. Replace AMSOIL Ea™ full flow filter at the time of oil change up to 25,000 miles. Replace other brand oil filters at standard OEM* intervals.

*OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer

(1) Where the engine or operating conditions have been modified from the original manufacturers' design, no oil change interval recommendation is made. Oil change intervals are at the owner's discretion. Examples include the use of performance computer chips; modified exhaust, fuel or air induction systems and the use of fuels other than those recommended for normal operation by the manufacturers.

(2) Engines are in good working condition and within the factory design settings. Mechanically sound engines, for example, do not leak oil or consume excessive amounts, are not worn out, do not overheat, do not have internal or external anti-freeze leaks and have a properly working emission
control system. AMSOIL recommends repairs be made to malfunctioning engines prior to the installation of AMSOIL synthetic oils.

(3) Personal transportation vehicles frequently traveling greater than 10 miles (16 km) at a time and not operating under severe service.

(4) Extensive engine idling, daily short trip driving less than 10 miles (16 km), frequent towing, plowing or hauling heavy loads and frequent driving in dusty conditions.

AMSOIL Ea™ and Donaldson Endurance™ full flow oil filters are designed for extended drain intervals. They stop smaller particles, have less restriction and last longer than regular filters. For best performance, use AMSOIL Ea or Donaldson Endurance oil filters. AMSOIL by-pass oil filters are specialized for the removal of small, wear-causing dirt particles, thereby extending engine life. AMSOIL encourages using an AMSOIL bypass filter system for maximum engine and oil life

...synthetic holds up to heat better than dino. ... several pricey high-end cars do come with it from the factory. ....If you live in a mild climate, don't tow, etc., you may not need it.

Some good points. A corvette, for example comes factory synthetic. Not for the reasons many think or assume, but it does nonetheless.

"Coking of the oil in the turbo is normally a concern. But our turbo is water cooled and the new group-II+ and group-III dino oils are built to handle it."
Jeff, you will be interested to know that some of the testers here, including myself, disagree with this statement, though we once thought the same thing. One member who has been a big contributor to the overheat effort recently changed his motor and found coking in the turbo. The oil temps are much higher that thought, especially when ECT's rise from a steady state full thermostat flow condition (over 210+). These results are dribbling in, and when combined with my own observations, I can't fathom using non-synthetic in any work conditions. Anyone who tows, that has seen 220 ECT, has probably had 300+ degree oil.

As a point of fact, that was pointed out to me at the dyno session, the turbo is water cooled from the hot side of the coolant system. This makes absolutely no sense to me, but...it is probably to keep it protected from thermal shock. The point is, that oil is HOT baby.

As for the additive package for our application, let's not associate that with temperature quality. The additive package is primarily just a larger percentage of the same things that go into passenger vehicles with lesser ratings. The ingredients are primarily non-viscous lubrication components, and anti-oxidation/pH buffer ingredients that help contain and suspend the added soot (abrasive and eventually acidic). As far as i know, they do nothing for flash point and fire point. The base stock is the key component there, and group IV is all over group II in that cataegory. I think around 50-75 degrees better. I can't comment on group III. :)

With these things in mind I have started an oil cooler project in the towing section that should help immensely, and allow owners to run whatever oil they want without fear of coking, but sysn does make for better sleep. I just hate seeing 3000 mile oil changes with syn, a complete waste

Wow...........this turned into more than I thought it would. A ton of great info though, and I will have to make some decisions here in the near future. Sorta looks like 6 of one, half dozen of another.:rolleyes:

Bertman911

Don't know if you know him, Bsanders works for City of Phoenix.

For PFD or just in the city operations?

Pfd

He and I have been working on his truck to expand his cooling capacity.

I'm not sure where some get their info but the Amsoil meets the CI-4 and CI-4+. As to cost around here Delo 400 is going for $8 a gallon plus tax. The Amsoil 15W-40 if you buy the 2 10quart jug case with shipping is only $18.70 a gallon and you are getting a true group 4 synthetic. If you use Amsoils new oil filters you can run it between 17K and 25K miles or one year. Most people are in the sever duty service range so the 17K miles would apply. But if you are driving long distances and not towing then its 25K miles. This is the best bang for the buck.

Greg

Amsoil only has one diesel rated oil meeting the ci-4 spec - they do not have an oil meeting the ci4+ spec. See here on api's website...

http://eolcs.api.org/DisplayLicenseInfo.asp?LicenseNo=0995

If you look at the amsoil diesel oil that is listed and how it is represented on amsoil's website - there are distinct differences in it's representation relative to the other full synthetic oils. First, the API certification is listed at the top of the spec sheet by itself without any qualification. And the oil listed (15w40 synthetic blend), states that it is registered with the api and does pass it's certification.

Stating "use where spec xyz is recommended" and "meets or exceeds api spec CI-4+" are dramatically different statements. The statement "use where..." doesn't mean it meets the spec, but it sounds good on paper...

jeff

Yes I am well aware that they have only 1 API certified CI+4 diesel oil. But the fact remains they also have other CI+4 rated oils. I never said certified and you didn't either. Big difference between rated and certified.

Greg

You might visit this website: www.bobistheoilguy.com (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com) . These folks live and breathe oil. Synthetic versus dino oil has been discussed extensively on that forum. Do your research and make an educated decision. Later. JJ :)

Yes I am well aware that they have only 1 API certified CI+4 diesel oil. But the fact remains they also have other CI+4 rated oils. I never said certified and you didn't either. Big difference between rated and certified.

Greg

Did you read my last post? - Amsoil does not have any CI-4+ rated and certified oils.

CI-4+ adds requirements for soot handling (due to EGR use in newer engines - like ours) and also for greater shear down resistance. The new formulation for delo-400 meets the ci-4+ spec.

To state than an oil either "meets ci-4+" or is "ci-4+ rated" it must be certified and registered with the api. The statement "use this oil where the manufacturer recommends ci-4+" skirts this requirement because it says nothing about the oil itself.

jeff

p.s. Re-reading your post I see you refer to ci+4 - if you meant ci-4, then yes there is one. But one could easily misinterpret ci+4 to ci-4+. And ci+4 doesn't exist.

You might visit this website: www.bobistheoilguy.com (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com) . These folks live and breathe oil. Synthetic versus dino oil has been discussed extensively on that forum. Do your research and make an educated decision. Later. JJ :)

I agree. Do a search on "delo" on "bobistheoilguy" and make your own decision.


jeff

i would like to ask one thing though; (not being a smart a$$ either) Do you really trust 50$ worth of oil for 25,000 miles in a $35,000+ truck? i personally dont. and im not knocking those who do.

I'M WITH YOU. GREAT OIL OR NOT I AIN'T GOIN NO 25K BETWEEN OIL CHANGE.

i have been useing mobil 1 for years and now use mobil truck & suv in my vw tdi.:)