Guy's,

The long version: Skip to the bottom for the short version. :D

A note to let you know that I completed testing of the new calculated PID that allows us to log boost values that are higher than what we would normally see logging with a Tech 2. Normally the ECM caps off the signal for scanning purposes which is why we only see a max value of approx. 22.3 with the Tech 2 or an Attitude monitor.

Score one for the EFILive guys as they figured out how to grab the signal from the sensor before it gets capped and send the raw data to their logging software as a PID. Then it was just a matter of writing a formula to subtract the ambient baro sensor reading (PID) from the boost sensor (PID) and display the result (Calculated PID) in Flashscan.







The short version: I logged data in Flashscan on my truck that showed boost up to 32 psi, which agrees with my SPA gauge. No more cap of 22.3 psi as in a Tech2 or Attitude Monitor.

Great to hear that. Sounds like there are many new datastreams that are monitorable outside GM parameters. It is nice to have all this information available for those of us who are willing to push the limits. Above and beyond what GM thought reasonable.

So I take it this will be available as a software update?

What is the sensor voltage @ 32psi? I would suspect the sensor cannot read much higher. Do we have the ability to rescale the sensor values?

So I take it this will be available as a software update?

What is the sensor voltage @ 32psi? I would suspect the sensor cannot read much higher. Do we have the ability to rescale the sensor values?

Yes this feature will be in the next update which will include the LLY programming. For thos that already have EFILive lookout for the download link to go up sometime soon after the beta testers give us the final O.K.

The sensor is getting close to the limit at 32psi, I think from memory 37psi is about the lot then the sensor is at 5.0V.
You can rescale the Voltage vs Pressure but the factory sensor is probably at it's limit, though I think there is 4bar sensors around.

Cheers,
Ross

Thanks. 37psi is "close" to where I will be with the new turbo:D

When testing with the MSD LP system, their first boost sensors were 3 bar units. After discussing with them what some are putting out for boost, they sourced a 3.5 boost sensor from Bosch.

IIRC, the 3.5 bar unit is good up to 43 psi (please correct me if I am wrong).

If interested, I could get the number off the unit for you, if it would help.

That would be great, thanks. :ro)

0 281 002 456 - 3.5 Bar Bosch MAP

The connection is different, but MSD mills up some little blocks that the sensor mounts into and gives you 2 hose connections.

A pic of the unit can be seen in their PDF instruction on page 12



Also found some info here

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?cmd=print&id=1023544

http://members.cox.net/christinamims/boschmap.jpg

When testing with the MSD LP system, their first boost sensors were 3 bar units. After discussing with them what some are putting out for boost, they sourced a 3.5 boost sensor from Bosch.

IIRC, the 3.5 bar unit is good up to 43 psi (please correct me if I am wrong).

If interested, I could get the number off the unit for you, if it would help.

1 bar = 14.5 psi so 3.5 bar = 50.75 absolute. This would give you a guage reading of 36.25. A 4 bar range would give you approximatley 45 psi guage.

If you were to use a 3.5bar or 4bar sensor you would also need to know what the kPa was for a given voltage. I say kPa because that is the 'native' method the ECM uses and being Bosch they will probably also use kPa.

As an example, there is a table in our software that lets you define for a measured voltage what that is in kPa.
You would need to get that info for the Bosch sensors (assuming they output a voltage and not frequency!).

Cheers,
Ross

Volts kPa
0.00 33
0.16 43
0.31 54
0.47 64
0.63 75
0.78 85
0.94 95
1.09 106
1.25 116
1.41 127
1.56 137
1.72 147
1.88 158
2.03 168
2.19 179
2.34 189
2.50 200
2.66 210
2.81 220
2.97 231
3.13 241
3.28 252
3.44 262
3.59 272
3.75 283
3.91 293
4.06 304
4.22 314
4.38 325
4.53 335
4.69 345
4.84 356
5.00 366

I have this info on the bosch unit.

Voltage Kpa
0.50 50
0.56 55
0.63 59
0.69 64
0.75 69
0.81 73
0.88 78
0.94 83
1.00 88
1.06 92
1.13 97
1.19 102
1.25 106
1.31 111
1.38 116
1.44 120
1.50 125
1.56 130
1.63 134
1.69 139
1.75 144
1.81 148
1.88 153
1.94 158
2.00 163
2.06 167
2.13 172
2.19 177
2.25 181
2.31 186
2.38 191
2.44 195
2.50 200
2.56 205
2.63 209
2.69 214
2.75 219
2.81 223
2.88 228
2.94 233
3.00 238
3.06 242
3.13 247
3.19 252
3.25 256
3.31 261
3.38 266
3.44 270
3.50 275
3.56 280
3.63 284
3.69 289
3.75 294
3.81 298
3.88 303
3.94 308
4.00 313
4.06 317
4.13 322
4.19 327
4.25 331
4.31 336
4.38 341
4.44 345
4.50 350

If you were to use a 3.5 bar or 4bar sensor you would also need to know what the kPa was for a given voltage. I say kPa because that is the 'native' method the ECM uses and being Bosch they will probably also use kPa.

As an example, there is a table in our software that lets you define for a measured voltage what that is in kPa.
You would need to get that info for the Bosch sensors (assuming they output a voltage and not frequency!).

Cheers,
Ross

Perfect.

Cheers,
Ross

No more cap of 22.3 psi as in a Tech2 or Attitude Monitor.

I believe Edge has an update as well.......you will be seeing higher numbers from the new Attitude.

If you were to use a 3.5bar or 4bar sensor you would also need to know what the kPa was for a given voltage. I say kPa because that is the 'native' method the ECM uses and being Bosch they will probably also use kPa.

As an example, there is a table in our software that lets you define for a measured voltage what that is in kPa.
You would need to get that info for the Bosch sensors (assuming they output a voltage and not frequency!).

Cheers,
Ross

Here is a link to a document from Bosch on MAP sensors http://apps.bosch.com.au/motorsport/downloads/sensors_mappressure.pdf.
The sensor specifically called out by Elowe65 (0 281 002 456 - 3.5 Bar Bosch MAP) is on page 3 of the document (referred to as page 34 in the PDF). The next few pages in the document show the characteristics of the sensors. It appears the this device is also a 5V supply with a 0.5 to 4.5 volt typical output range.

Does anyone know who manufactures the MAP sensor currently on the DMAX?

hmmm

can someone clarify. Stock vehicle sustains 30 psi (actual)?

Define "stock":lol: hmmm

can someone clarify. Stock vehicle sustains 30 psi (actual)?

MAP (boost) Sensor is a Delphi unit and is the BARO. There is a one for one replacement for the MAP with a higher range that appears to be in use on the LBZ platform. Scaling in different.

Here is a link

Was no link?. Sounded good though.

Cheers,
Ross

EDIT - Thanks for fixing the link, excellent info.

hmmm

can someone clarify. Stock vehicle sustains 30 psi (actual)?

Nobody said that, only that the sensor can detect 30 PSI.

Was no link?. Sounded good though.

Cheers,
Ross

Sorry, got distracted by my 14 month old daughter while trying to type.

Original post has document link added.

Nobody said that, only that the sensor can detect 30 PSI.

"The short version: I logged data in Flashscan on my truck that showed boost up to 32 psi, which agrees with my SPA gauge. No more cap of 22.3 psi as in a Tech2 or Attitude Monitor."

I must have misread something? looks like 22 psi is 32 psi. I get it now.

From the Delphi website, here is some generic information on the Boost sensor. I believe the picture shows the LB7/LLY boost sensor.
http://delphi.com/manufacturers/auto/sensors/et/turbo/
Looks like they can trim in different calibrations for the application. They may have increased the slope of the line for the LBZ application to give them more range (at the sacrifice of accuracy).

Also, the Delphi page reads like this is a guage pressure sensor and not an absolute sensor. Probably a typo by some marketing person.

on edit - I think the Delphi page was trying to describe how the ouput can be used for gauge pressure. It appears to actually be an absolute pressure sensor.

I must have misread something? looks like 22 psi is 32 psi. I get it now.

22.5 - 32 PSI actual was all being displayed as 22.5 on the Tech II.

[quote=Fingers;857206]22.5 - 32 PSI actual was all being displayed as 22.5 on the Tech II.

:exactly:

But what do I know?.....................):h

"The short version: I logged data in Flashscan on my truck that showed boost up to 32 psi, which agrees with my SPA gauge. No more cap of 22.3 psi as in a Tech2 or Attitude Monitor."

I must have misread something? looks like 22 psi is 32 psi. I get it now.

I believe that anything over about 22.3 psi is still reading the 22.3 psi (So 27.9 psi would read 22.3 psi, or whatever number over 22.3) because there was no way of getting the real number, but now Flashscan has found a fix for it. However anything below 22.4 psi should have read correctly before this fix.

If I am wrong, I am sure I will be corrected real soon!

Spot on Mike.

Cheers,
Ross