I am in a toss up between a 2006 chevy 2500hd with LBZ, 6 speed allison and basically fully loaded with everything, and a 2006 f350 with 6.0l, 5 speed torqshift with pretty much everything the chevy has except a kicking system, heated seats, and 6 speed tranny. I need honest opinions. Is the allison all that good? and how about the dmax is the LBZ the **** like everyone says. And with a custom tune, exhaust, and intake which would win if both had them. The only thing i dont like about the chevy is the wheel package, but that can be changed easily. Please no bashing as this is my first and i just need the facts and opinions. Thanks in advance!

Do you think someone with a new LBZ is going to tell you to go buy the Ford after spending 40k+?

I didn't like the wood interior in the Lariat, it was ugly IMO. I like the styling of the Ford better but the interior did me in. The 6 speed auto was a nice feature but not a deal breaker for me.

The modded 6.0 will whoop the LBZ as of right now. The LBZ should be out ahead of the Ford in no time. The Ford is much cheaper to mod (SCT), but the 6.0 has its fair share of problems. Ford even quoted the 6.0 repair costs as a reason they didn't make their profit goals this year. I'd get the LBZ and wait for some tunes to come out. It is one kick but motor and the trans. is awesome too.

Diesel 51,
for what it's worth I looked at both, but dually's. Mechanic at my local ford dealer stated the 2006 powerstoke was still having issues, and it was hit or miss on how reliable the engine would be. If I really wanted ford to wait till the new engine came out. LBZ in the driveway:ro)

The modded 6.0 will whoop the LBZ as of right now. The LBZ should be out ahead of the Ford in no time. The Ford is much cheaper to mod (SCT), but the 6.0 has its fair share of problems. Ford even quoted the 6.0 repair costs as a reason they didn't make their profit goals this year. I'd get the LBZ and wait for some tunes to come out. It is one kick but motor and the trans. is awesome too.
there is one out for the lbz, and with 458hp/936tq at the rear wheels it should take care of most fords you will meet. link below
http://www.bullydog.com/index.php?customernumber=97462443762857&pr=GM_2006

Take a test drive in both over some bumpy road conditions...then if you still can't decide, do a search on the problems Ford has admitted to having with increased warranty cost because of the Powerstroke. Warranty cost become a problem for the manufacturer when an overwhelming percentage of buyers have something go wrong on a regular basis. When you spend the sort of money you are looking at spending on either truck, you shouldn't have to prearrange your first warranty service with your dealer. Buy either truck...when you drive down the road you will notice that everyone will give you looks. The difference is the reason they are looking at you!

Good luck,

All i have to say is
77Technical service bullitens with the ford PS
8 for the duramax.

That speaks for itself alone. As a side note, a guy i know down here is on his 3rd turbo at 16k miles on his 6.0 f250

Why compare A K2500HD to a F350? Compare a K3500 to a F350 if you want as far as GVWR. If Ford still had the 7.3 They would have a good motor. I went GM for two reasons; cost and dealer.

Ive never driven a LBZ or a 6.0l but i have driven an lb7 and an 8.1 and i can say the allison is the nicest shifting transmission ive ever felt. It shifts exactly when you expect it to and keeps the motor right in the sweet spot.

fords engine is crap, it even affected their bottom line on repair costs, if you want the ford, wait til they come out with the new engine or if you dont like the dmax, buy the dodge which has a great engine.id buy the dmax any day.

Do the math on the chart. Anything look fishy? 320 base HP ( this is at the crank I assume). 48hp+320hpbase=374hp?????:confused: 69hp+320hpbase=409hp?????:confused: 209tq+642tqbase=835tq????:confused: :help: And you trust these guys to make a tune for ya?:badidea: Good luck. You will need a modded trans for the so called Extreme tune. The 6.0 SCT will run high 13's on a stock trans. I'd be surprised to see an LBZ run high 13's on a stock trans. I'd be surprised to see an LBZ run high 13's w/ a modded trans and a Bully Dog program!! Do they make the -:t Bully Dog shift kit for the Allison 6 speed yet?):h

there is one out for the lbz, and with 458hp/936tq at the rear wheels it should take care of most fords you will meet. link below
http://www.bullydog.com/index.php?customernumber=97462443762857&pr=GM_2006


:funnypost

there is one out for the lbz, and with 458hp/936tq at the rear wheels it should take care of most fords you will meet. link below
http://www.bullydog.com/index.php?customernumber=97462443762857&pr=GM_2006

Thats alot of pow'r ! I like the way they state that the tranny is highly recommended to be upgraded for the highest tune. I for one think it should just for the first tune at 776 ft lb. Damn, just that alone is more than my edge on level 5 !!

I will give my opinion, and i am a dodge/cummins guy; so im not really that biased towards either ford or chevy too much. Personally i think i would buy the chevy. I like the ford truck better overall, but the 6.0 powerstroke has had nothing but problems, and i dont expect for them to last long out of warranty. If ford still had the 7.3, i would say go with Ford, but the 6.0 isnt near the motor the 7.3 was. So i would go with chevy if i were you. And if i were me(and i am):h ) I would go with dodge. So can i ask why you didnt even consider a dodge?

Eric

My brother works for Ford. He told me warranty costs on the 6.0 are more than all their other engines combined. He even advised against me buying the F-250. I am very happy with my truck. Also I raced my co-workers 6.0 in his ford and I beat him. I don't see the 6.0 as faster. I think they are very close stock with the edge going to the D-max.

[quote=bobo;842721]Do the math on the chart. Anything look fishy? 320 base HP ( this is at the crank I assume). 48hp+320hpbase=374hp?????:confused: 69hp+320hpbase=409hp?????:confused: 209tq+642tqbase=835tq????:confused: :help:


Well you know what they say when you ASSUME something. Do you really think 320hp is crank hp when they are rated at 360 hp@ that crank and have dynoed at 310+hp at the wheels. I'm not a bullydog fan, but get your #'s correct if you're gonna bash someones product. And I've seen the LB7 run 13.6's on a stock allison with no problems. The only failure was a tie rod from launching in 4hi with 22x10" wheels.

I am in a toss up between a 2006 chevy 2500hd with LBZ, 6 speed allison and basically fully loaded with everything, and a 2006 f350 with 6.0l, 5 speed torqshift

Read this thread (http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55756). :badidea:

I might be able to help you here. I have been a die heart Ford Fan for a long time. I have owed a 92 F-250 gasser, 02 Chevy 2500HD 6.0, 01 Chevy 2500HD D/A, 04 F-250 6.0, and now a 05 GMC 2500HD D/A. I become good friends with the owner of the local Chevy dealership about 4 years ago. He talked be into buying the 02 2500HD 6.0, just was not enough to pull the 24' gooseneck loaded, so I traded it for a used 01 2500HD D/A, pulled great never had a problem with either. Here is where things went south. I had 150000 miles on the 01, so I started looking to upgrade. I hated the frontend on the Chevy, so they where out. I love the look of the Ford, and love the inside of the ford, so I went and test drove an 04 F-250 FX4 6.0 powerstroke diesel, with an automatic tranny. I liked it, run good, lots of power, more then the LB7 I had. I test drove it for about three days, no problems seemed great. So I bought it.

The next morning when I started it up, it started surging. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/icons/icon8.gif So I thought maybe it was just a one time thing, oh no. It got worse and worse, so I took it back to the dealer. Also I noticed the cold side of the intercooler hose was loose. Service writer said yeah they have been know to pop off and put a dent in the hood. Well mine has not poped off yet but it was loose, and tighting it does not seem to help. So couple days later truck is ready. Go pickup truck and they flashed the computer, and replaced a clamp on the intercooler. First thing I noticed was the Pilot Injection was gone, and she was much louder than before more like a 7.3 that my brother has. ok no big deal ITS A DIESEL!! Truck ran great for about 8 months after that. Pulled some heavy loads never had a problem.

Then in Jan 05, I was coming back home from visiting the family on a flat 4 lane road doing 55 MPH when I heard a pop sound, kinda like a rock beening throw from a tire, but much louder. Didn't think a whole lot about it, but I noticed right way that the idle sound was much different, kinda muffled. Maybe a fluke right! Well the next day it still was idling wierd and did for quite some time. I also noticed that the diesel mileage had dropped by 8-10 miles. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/icons/icon4.gif In to the dealer it went. Only to come back out with a flash. Next couple days it was back to its old self. Weird. Then it started again, and again. It finally got to where on first start in the morning I would let it get up to normal temp and then shut it down and start it back up and it was fine. If it sit for about two hours it would go back to idling weird and getting crappy mileage.

A friend suggested I try changing the oil from 15W-40 to 10w-30. I didn't like the ideal but I did it, and still same thing. Back to the dealer. Yet another flash and c-ya. Well it still done the weird idling, also had a cluck when it shifted from 1st to 2nd, something about the trans having a 1st then 1st w/OD then 2nd. The third thing was oil leaking from bell housing and from rear cylinder heads both sides. Lastly was the intercooler hose, on the cold side on the intercooler, keep poping off. I spent a lot of time on the side of the road putting that back on, hard place to get to too. So when I had all I could stand I made a list and back to the dealer. I told them to not tear down the engine, and I needed my truck back ASAP. They flashed it and that was it. It still had the problems.

Basically I was feed up, thats a lot of money in a truck to have these type of problems. I was also reading thedieselstop.com and boy that was discouraging. So I done some bean counting and decided to trade it. During this time my friend at the Chevy dealership was kinda upset that I had moved to Ford anyway, so when he got wind of this he came a knocking. I told him I was coming back, but I didn't want a Chevy, that I was looking at the GMC. He told me to give him a day or two and I told him what I wanted and he called me back with a good deal to trade in the F-250 on a 05' GMC 2500HD D/A. So I did it, I have had the GMC for about 11 months now and not one problem. Getting 18-20 MPG about 8 more than the F-250 when I traded it in.

I hope in some way this can help you or others that are deciding, I love the body of the F-250, but the 6.0 and autotranny does not even come close to the Duramax/Allison combo.

I have swapped out the tires for 265/75 R16 when it had 5 miles on the truck and I now have over 12000 and I am loving it, much better look with the bigger tires.

Again, this is just my experience.

Anthony :grd:

I went through the same dilemma this October. Net/Net: I think the Ford is more feature rich (bed caps, pop-up tied owns, wood grain dashboard, tow command, power rear windows, better tire/rim options) all for the same or little less msrp than the duramax. I found the Ford interior nicer (more luxurious) than the durmax. [Note: these are MY opinions!!!]

Ford has, as a company, sited warranty issues on the 6.0L as an issue. So it's not just forum fodder/drama. That being said, I have two personal observations:

1. Close family friends have the 6.0L in an Excursion. 2003, absolutely no problems w/ engine/tranny/vechile. They love it.
2. Have a close friend with LB7. Blown injectors. Bought an F350 last year and has put 20K hard miles on it. Going strong. Absolutely no engine/tranny issues. The LB7 was modified, so....

Finally, I drive a 2006 LBZ 2500HD 4x4 crew cab. I love it. Why did I purchase the GMC over the Ford?
1. LBZ
2. Allison 6-speed
3. Family pricing
4. Bought my GMC at a Cadillac dealer. Free oil changes. On a diesel that substantial!

Hope that helps!

Mike

Do the math on the chart. Anything look fishy? 320 base HP ( this is at the crank I assume). 48hp+320hpbase=374hp?????:confused: 69hp+320hpbase=409hp?????:confused: 209tq+642tqbase=835tq????:confused: :help: And you trust these guys to make a tune for ya?:badidea: Good luck. You will need a modded trans for the so called Extreme tune. The 6.0 SCT will run high 13's on a stock trans. I'd be surprised to see an LBZ run high 13's on a stock trans. I'd be surprised to see an LBZ run high 13's w/ a modded trans and a Bully Dog program!! Do they make the -:t Bully Dog shift kit for the Allison 6 speed yet?):h

if you read my post is says these are REAR WHEEL NUMBERS. maby you should spend more time reading, and less time bashing and deciding what smiley face to use. and let me make aonther suggestion, I just post what I read next time you want to bash me I would think twice. and also have you ever heard of false advertising? I'm sure a company like bd with so much competition, and people watching for someone to slip up in the industry, is not going to post false #'s.

All i have to say is
77Technical service bullitens with the ford PS
8 for the duramax.

That speaks for itself alone. As a side note, a guy i know down here is on his 3rd turbo at 16k miles on his 6.0 f250

0 for dodge/cummins

Eric

Actually 06, he is talking about the math on the graphic

In the picture:
HP 320 + 48 = Bully Dog ___374__My Calculator__368__WRONG!!!!!!!!!
TQ 642 + 134 = Bully Dog __776__My Calculator__776__CORRECT!
HP 320 + 69 = Bully Dog____409__My Calculator__389__WRONG!!!!!!!!!
TQ 642 + 209 = Bully Dog___835__My Calculator__851__WRONG!!!!!!!!!

His comment was if they can not add, would should you trust your truck to them?

0 for dodge/cummins

Eric

Yeah, now if they could put a decent transmission with more than 4 gears in it they would have something. Not bashing, its just that if any body could benefit from a 5 or 6 speed auto it would be the cummins with its lower end power. Also, back to the ford or chevy, with the problems that they have had with the 6.0l I would have a tough time going ford. I would go with the dmax for many reasons, but one of the main ones is the warranty. I have heard of people having trouble with the 6.0l warranty coverage and ford not covering it and blaming turbo failures on the customer for not replacing the air filter enough. I have not had a hole lot of problems getting warranty covered on my 01 duramax. Nor have I needed much either.
Good luck, which ever way you go.

Cumminsdriver, The tranny is what scared me away!...I went to the chevy dealer today and they are only going to give me 4000 dollars for my trade!! CRAZY! Ricart said $6500. Ricart has a truck i was looking at $48,950 MSRP and at $41,000 w/ family and an extra grand off and my trade put it at right around 34,000 out the door. Went to the chevy dealer had a truck very similar equiped MSRP of $49900 w/ $7000 off and then only $4000 for my trade put me at $39000 so probably $40000 out the door...YEAH RIGHT!!!...:badidea:

By the way my trade is a 97 f150 xlt 4x4 ext. cab with 94k miles has custom system, dual exahust, custom rims and tires, near flawless for a 97..i get compliments left and right...KBB said $7500 and NADA said $7250

Actually 06, he is talking about the math on the graphic

In the picture:
HP 320 + 48 = Bully Dog ___374__My Calculator__368__WRONG!!!!!!!!!
TQ 642 + 134 = Bully Dog __776__My Calculator__776__CORRECT!
HP 320 + 69 = Bully Dog____409__My Calculator__389__WRONG!!!!!!!!!
TQ 642 + 209 = Bully Dog___835__My Calculator__851__WRONG!!!!!!!!!

His comment was if they can not add, would should you trust your truck to them?
my problem was not really with his math i dont care if bd says 1+1 is 6, I was more fired up with his second post pointed a smiley at me for doing a copy and paste of somthing I found elsewhere on this board. and assuming they were crank numbers when I specified they were rear wheel numbers.That and all the bashing that goes on around here added up to my frustration. (it kinda sucks that you have to weed through 50 worthless off topic posts to get the info you asked for in 1 or 2 in the middle),and as far as bd I'm assuming they give gains at the crank in the first colum and dyno#'s in the second. (I dont know for sure and I dont care) and anyone who knows tuning knows 1hp at the crank is not 1hp at the wheel's. so in my eyes they are being 1/2 honest in their claims. imho every company that makes these programmer's should have to show actual dyno hp gains not just crank gains. that being said thats all I have to add to this so this thread does not get hijacked any further.

Yeah, now if they could put a decent transmission with more than 4 gears in it they would have something. Not bashing, its just that if any body could benefit from a 5 or 6 speed auto it would be the cummins with its lower end power.

I agree; and i would imagine that they will step up with a 5 or 6 speed auto pretty soon.

Eric

50,000 Miles on my f250 04 crew cab 4x4, no problems. I love my ford;)

Cumminsdriver, The tranny is what scared me away!
By the way my trade is a 97 f150 xlt 4x4 ext. cab with 94k miles has custom system, dual exahust, custom rims and tires, near flawless for a 97..i get compliments left and right...KBB said $7500 and NADA said $7250

Did the tranny scare you away; or everyone bashing it? I have about 130k or more miles on my transmission in my truck, and it is doing great so far. I havent had the shift kit in any more than probably 20k, and the converter for only about 5k miles. I just wanted it to be able to hold the power a little better, and be more efficient. If the transmission is the only thing you dont really like about the Dodge, then look at it this way. You will end up paying quite a bit less for a Dodge than a Ford or Chevy(unless you go Mega Cab), so if you like the rest of the truck as good, then why not try it. If the tranny goes out after warranty, just pay for it out of pocket, and then sell the truck if you dont feel like you like it enough to keep it. My uncle has a 97 CTD with 150k miles on it. Tranny is still doing fine. The only reason my tranny went out before i had the truck was because the guy wrecked it, and the retards that towed it to the shop left the t-case in 2 hi, and the tranny in neutral, so when they pulled it; it didnt pump fluid to the bearings, and that burnt it up. I would be willing to bet the dodge tranny will last just as long as the ford or chevy tranny will. Just go buy what you want, but the Dodge tranny has proved to hold up really well so far, and i dont think you would be dissapointed with it. With the money you save buying a dodge, you could probably afford to put a built tranny in it anyway:D Good luck with your decision.

Eric

Well my experence wasn't so good with the ford. I always wanted a powerstroke with a 6 speed manual. I got one in Augest. Before a 1000 miles the exaust manifold gaskets went bed, found out from my service manager there was a tsb for it. Keep in mind that in September there was 3 or 4 tsb's on the 2006 powerstroke. They ordered the parts and installed them, 3 days after i got it back the egr puked so back again. I was to the point of 20.5 mpg before the egr and yet another reflash it dropped to 15. So, back to see my now good buddy the sevice manager and they had another batch of re-calibrations. Well success other than it wouldn't do over 17 mpg. Aweek to the day was going up a hill and shifted and lost my boost. Got home ran an errond later no problems. Next day another hill and same problem, 2 miles down the road it was back. By this time i am pretty hacked at Ford. The dealer fixed it but it kept getting different problems. So call number 2 to Ford. Got the well you know,,, routine and i came unglued. The truck went in on a friday for the turbo issue and i wheeled and dealed on this LBZ. The master teck told my garage to give me a bottle of conditioner for the turbo issue. Welp that was it, I scored the Lbz next day and called my Ford dealer on the following monday. I really liked those guys they were good and decent but Ford pissed me off. I lost a firewood contract and another side job over that truck being either in the shop or running half assed. I had 6000 miles in 3 months on the Ford. When it didn't have issues i liked it however i decided to cut my losses and move on. Good luck to ya

I am in a toss up between a 2006 chevy 2500hd with LBZ, 6 speed allison and basically fully loaded with everything, and a 2006 f350 with 6.0l, 5 speed torqshift with pretty much everything the chevy has except a kicking system, heated seats, and 6 speed tranny. I need honest opinions. Is the allison all that good? and how about the dmax is the LBZ the **** like everyone says. And with a custom tune, exhaust, and intake which would win if both had them. The only thing i dont like about the chevy is the wheel package, but that can be changed easily. Please no bashing as this is my first and i just need the facts and opinions. Thanks in advance!



Just spent 6 months researching, test driving, surfing this forum, more research, more test driving, more forum time. Our signature says it all.

Truck on!!!:rolleyes:

"Supposedly" Dodge is going to a Mercedes diesel within the next couple of years, so maybe Ford can put the Cummins in their trucks since they supposedly own cummins. This may or may not be fact, but it is the latest rumor I've heard.

Ford owns no share of Cummins. This should probably be stickied for the trollers...

http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/customerassistance/faq/answers.cfm?uuid=000C518F-094B-1E31-850880C4A8F00000

my problem was not really with his math i dont care if bd says 1+1 is 6, I was more fired up with his second post pointed a smiley at me for doing a copy and paste of somthing I found elsewhere on this board. and assuming they were crank numbers when I specified they were rear wheel numbers.That and all the bashing that goes on around here added up to my frustration. (it kinda sucks that you have to weed through 50 worthless off topic posts to get the info you asked for in 1 or 2 in the middle),and as far as bd I'm assuming they give gains at the crank in the first colum and dyno#'s in the second. (I dont know for sure and I dont care) and anyone who knows tuning knows 1hp at the crank is not 1hp at the wheel's. so in my eyes they are being 1/2 honest in their claims. imho every company that makes these programmer's should have to show actual dyno hp gains not just crank gains. that being said thats all I have to add to this so this thread does not get hijacked any further.

They should post dyno charts. Period. I had a BD and it worked well. But if they are going to sell a product, they ought to wipe their hiny and make sure their numbers add up!

Actually 06, he is talking about the math on the graphic

In the picture:
HP 320 + 48 = Bully Dog ___374__My Calculator__368__WRONG!!!!!!!!!
TQ 642 + 134 = Bully Dog __776__My Calculator__776__CORRECT!
HP 320 + 69 = Bully Dog____409__My Calculator__389__WRONG!!!!!!!!!
TQ 642 + 209 = Bully Dog___835__My Calculator__851__WRONG!!!!!!!!!

His comment was if they can not add, would should you trust your truck to them?:exactly: :exactly: :exactly:


:blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:

So you don't like the chart that proves they are lying?:confused: Where is the chart for the 320rwhp dyno? I read of of one LBZ over 300rwhp stock and it only happened once out of 3 different dynos...not any at 320rwhp!:rolleyes: Bully Dog didn't have it on their site. Where else should I look?:confused: Is Bully Dog lying about that too? I'm beginning to think Bully Dog is full of Bully Sh--! If you don't like smiles, disable them in your user CP...do you need help :help2: w/ it?:D

When do you expect to get your Bd power pup? I made the mistake of geting my 06 with a LLY and the 6 speed allison, but from everyone I've talked to say's it will use the LBZ programmer.

I've seen the LB7 run 13.6's on a stock allison with no problems.

Just out of curiosity, could you PLEASE tell me the trucks set up?

I don't own either truck but have been lurking on their sites for years. From what I read, I woudn't touch a Ford 6.0. There have been too many issues with this engine & next year they're coming out with a 6.4 which will make the 6.0 obsolete. Ford is also due for a sheet metal change in 2007 as well. If I were to buy right now it would be the LBZ. If I had more time, I'd wait a year after the Ford 6.4 comes out to see how reliable it is. I'd also like to see what GMC will look like in 2008 with its new platform. If diesel prices keep rising over gas, I'll opt for an F-350 with a V10.

Mine is on order.... hopefully it will be here before Dyno day on jan 21.

I am in a toss up between a 2006 chevy 2500hd with LBZ, 6 speed allison and basically fully loaded with everything, and a 2006 f350 with 6.0l, 5 speed torqshift with pretty much everything the chevy has except a kicking system, heated seats, and 6 speed tranny. I need honest opinions. Is the allison all that good? and how about the dmax is the LBZ the **** like everyone says. And with a custom tune, exhaust, and intake which would win if both had them. The only thing i dont like about the chevy is the wheel package, but that can be changed easily. Please no bashing as this is my first and i just need the facts and opinions. Thanks in advance!

I've just driven all three Big Three '06's and GM has it hands down! Yes the Allison is as good as they say! I've owned three Dodge Cummins and I like the engine, but the rest of the truck doesn't compare to a GM. I liked the Ford truck, but the engine was the weakest performance of the three! The GM front end rides great for a 4 x 4. Dodge's straight axle is good for a farm, but doesn't ride well in the city. I don't root for auto manufacturers or trucks, or wear a GM hat! It's not a football game! I have a new Chevy LBZ coming because I think it's the best choice at this point in the game! I tell it like it is and get in trouble for it now and then! Oh well!
:lol:

Hope this helps! Now don't put a programmer on it and T-bone me racing around the city streets!:joke: