Are you considering offering a personal ECM controler/programmer? (Like you $5500 one, but with limited license similar to what Flashscan has!)
I am not trying to get a mine is better then yours thread going, the only reason I referenced the Flashscan, is to point out the "limited for one or two vehicles" for personal use only, I am looking for this type of device for personal use, not for selling tunes.

Lyndon is pretty busy and doesn't monitor the forums much. If you want to get a faster reply I'd give him a call.

Nick

Are you considering offering a personal ECM controler/programmer? (Like you $5500 one, but with limited license similar to what Flashscan has!)
I am not trying to get a mine is better then yours thread going, the only reason I referenced the Flashscan, is to point out the "limited for one or two vehicles" for personal use only, I am looking for this type of device for personal use, not for selling tunes.

No. In fairness to real tuning shops, and the ability to steal tuning from other companies who've done some real hard work, there will never be a 'personal' version. Here's why...

A person may buy a Hypertech, Predator, or Superchips handheld--program his or her truck...and then read out the file with other software. They then program it back to stock--and send back the handheld with the claim that it doesn't work. They then claim the tune as their own--and either work from there--or...whatever. This has to stop. Either learn to really program something, which is what we give you with our product--or buy something else. Where's the liability reside when a customer craps their $40,000 truck with software worth $500 ?? This could cause so much grief with GM and warranty, I don't even know where to start...

We can even give you some nice files that work well, to start with--just don't steal anything from someone else.

Our software/interface has been tested on XP, Windows 2000 and Windows 98 with no issues...and we programmed a couple hundred trucks this past summer (Duramax) as well as systems that ended up in boats and non-OEM applications. There's a learning curve with any software--just because something is different, doesn't make it bad...we've made ours as simple as possible so you can begin tuning right away--without having to learn how to run menus, etc...

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com (http://www.ecmprogrammer.com)
Westers Garage
1-888-WESTER-1

Thanks Lyndon for the reply!

I like a lot of what Lyndon said, and hope that the other Software pkgs incorporate some exclusivity into their Workshop version also.

We also plan to add the older 1996-2003 6.5TD VIN 'S', VIN 'F' and H1 programming, as well as '06 LBZ -- for a total GM Diesel tuning solution.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com (http://www.ecmprogrammer.com)

Sounds like a good product,

I wish you luck with it.

T:cool: NY

Some views from a regular Joe.

I'd be interested in something for the LBZ but not at the 5500$ price tag.

I can see not wanting to help people pirate other peoples tunes but I dont know if you will see alot of that if you limit it to one vehicle. I dont see alot of people buying a tuning package and then buying a bunch of different tunes to "return them". Maybe if you could suck a tune off your vehicle and then dump it onto your buds truck but if you limit licenses then I dont really see alot of that happening even if it were possible. I also understand that if it were to go on you not wanting to be a part of that but there already are these other programs out there that will do it so you arnt going to stop pirating by limiting it to just a vendors tuning......actually I see the biggest perpatrator of pirating tunes is dishonest vendors. Hey.....yeah come one in and we will make you a custom tune.....in you go and they either resell a tune they sucked off that is a direct copy or one thats been modded.

Now I dont want this to turn into a bashing session but why is your software better than other products? Or at least differences?

I can't comment on something I've never used. I have no 'we're better' comments to make. All software packages do is take engineering data, turn the bytes into understandable values--so the everyday tuning shop can make interpretation of them--instead of working in raw hex or using an emulator--and when a file is saved, all checksums are calculated so there's no additional work needed.
Our package is not geared to the individual, single user. Never will be.
That's the major difference...from a business perspective, you would have your initial investment back after 10 custom tunes...if you're not a good tuner, you'll have to charge less...so it may take longer to recoupe your investment.
We do have all parameters for 2001 for rev and speed using the '01 PCM, as does TTS...there's another difference. We do plan to continue to add vehicles to our package...another difference.
We don't offer a built in scanner. To properly load the Duramax on the dyno, you need a Tech2. Someday, if needed--we'll add a scanner.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com

you would have your initial investment back after 10 custom tunes..

If you think the average guy will pay $550 for programming without any hard parts to make changes whenever he/she likes, you are being very very very optimistic. I would think you would have a hard time getting more then maybe $100. I know if I went to a tuning garage for a custom tune, and was quoted $550 for that service, I would first faint, then laugh, and walk out, to never return to that shop. For not much more then that, you have a huge number of programmers/tuners to choose from. (And a few that are priced lower!)

If you think the average guy will pay $550 for programming without any hard parts to make changes whenever he/she likes, you are being very very very optimistic. I would think you would have a hard time getting more then maybe $100. I know if I went to a tuning garage for a custom tune, and was quoted $550 for that service, I would first faint, then laugh, and walk out, to never return to that shop. For not much more then that, you have a huge number of programmers/tuners to choose from. (And a few that are priced lower!)


How do you figure someone wouldn't buy a programmed ECM for $550,hell I paid twice that for my Extreme and am extremely happy.

I don't quite understand your logic as Lyndon is saying he isn't selling this to the end user.

How do you figure someone wouldn't buy a programmed ECM for $550,hell I paid twice that for my Extreme and am extremely happy.

I don't quite understand your logic as Lyndon is saying he isn't selling this to the end user.

:iamwithst For the first time, I agree with Mackin:eek:

If you think the average guy will pay $550 for programming without any hard parts to make changes whenever he/she likes, you are being very very very optimistic. I would think you would have a hard time getting more then maybe $100. I know if I went to a tuning garage for a custom tune, and was quoted $550 for that service, I would first faint, then laugh, and walk out, to never return to that shop. For not much more then that, you have a huge number of programmers/tuners to choose from. (And a few that are priced lower!)

That's about where I'll be depending on the nature of the tune etc. You get what you pay for applies here...

I'm very optimistic...I'm the optimistic one in the family. We sell 3-4 custom Duramax tunes at our shop each day at $495.00 -- and those are the guys that drive here. These are people who've tried the handhelds, tried the plug-ins, etc...and were not happy. We still sell our extreme tuning for $1195.00 -- definitely not a bargain in your eyes...but you've gotta like blowing the doors off a corvette.
We also email a similar amount to our dealers.
We're also selling our systems...to guys who know what it's really worth.

If you only think tuning is only worth $95.00, you haven't spent any time learning it...it got handed to you. You can work all day like a dog and have to sell 10 tunes to make a grand...or sell two a day and relax.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com

If you think the average guy will pay $550 for programming without any hard parts to make changes whenever he/she likes, you are being very very very optimistic. I would think you would have a hard time getting more then maybe $100. I know if I went to a tuning garage for a custom tune, and was quoted $550 for that service, I would first faint, then laugh, and walk out, to never return to that shop. For not much more then that, you have a huge number of programmers/tuners to choose from. (And a few that are priced lower!)

Mike
Based on posts you have made the last two days regarding ECM tuning I can see where you coming from. You have never had a vehicle tuned, you probably never will, and you have no idea what is involved. That's ok, you're obviously satisfied with the Quad/AFE combo. I'm glad you are happy with your choice, really, but that's where it ends. You are conveying a negative attitude towards some vendors here and the product they are bringing to market. Why? You spent at least $1000+ on your setup and what do you have? 2, 3, or 4 canned tunes and an over priced air filter that gained you absolutely nothing? Your comments regarding the cost of additional EFI licenses and now this are embarrassing. Do you work for free, I doubt it! I for one am welcoming these new products with open arms, they will surely push the Duramax to new heights. Comments like yours do nothing but propagate negative attitudes and drive manufactures away from the forums. Maybe you should spend time researching this technology adn expanding your knowledge base rather than voicing your negative point of view on the forums. :rant:




Have a great day!

I see how from a biz perspective this isnt a bad deal. But I suppose its more of a wish thing than anything to be able to tune just my truck. I was looking for a personal version. I have no problem getting a dyno for a few hours and playing around and then tweaking it on the street.

I do agree on a custom tune......now if a guy has a pile of canned tunes and is selling em for 500 bucks unless they are much better than the other stuff(goes back to you get what you pay for)

Look at it this way......go buy an hours worth of dyno time. All you do is hook your truck up to the rollers and flog your truck. The dyno guy waits while you load X tune from quad or TTS and see what this air filter does or that boost widget. Just an hour to test stuff and play around. How much will it be? Now if you were a dyno guy and you could get X per hour just to have a truck on your rollers what would you charge for 2 hours or so(I would see this as being about the min it would take if you had a fairly cookie cutter truck and he had something to start off and took imput from you and you guys worked together to get you happy, maybe spend an hour on the dyno and an hour on the road) Your using your tuning knowledge you gained from playing with this stuff......you are spending your time tuning it......what would it be worth for you if you were selling tunes?

Mike
Based on posts you have made the last two days regarding ECM tuning I can see where you coming from. You have never had a vehicle tuned, you probably never will, and you have no idea what is involved. That's ok, you're obviously satisfied with the Quad/AFE combo. I'm glad you are happy with your choice, really, but that's where it ends. You are conveying a negative attitude towards some vendors here and the product they are bringing to market. Why? You spent at least $1000+ on your setup and what do you have? 2, 3, or 4 canned tunes and an over priced air filter that gained you absolutely nothing? Your comments regarding the cost of additional EFI licenses and now this are embarrassing. Do you work for free, I doubt it! I for one am welcoming these new products with open arms, they will surely push the Duramax to new heights. Comments like yours do nothing but propagate negative attitudes and drive manufactures away from the forums. Maybe you should spend time researching this technology adn expanding your knowledge base rather than voicing your negative point of view on the forums. :rant:




Have a great day!

Actually, I thought I saw where he was going to buy EFI live and start playing...

John(since you have a dyno and have EFI live, or anyone really) if one has a fairly normal truck and wants a run of the mill 100HP tune and you have a deccent base tune to start from(I would assume you would have a pile of base tunes to tweak from if you were a tuner) how long would you think it would take to get them a tweaked tune to thier liking? 2 hours or so start to finish?

I believe someone with some experience tuning could benefit from the Lyndon release.

Many people just don't have the time or desire to tune their truck for what ever reason it be,safety,know how.

Take someone like Tony for instance who seems to have a handle on what he's doing.Like some people want a Edge style tune with speed'o removed etc and he brought that tune out for like say a couple hundred bucks tried and trued,he could start his own business.

He could lock them from theft and coping to.

John Kennedy could do the same and he has a in house dyno.Maybe it's me I just see the potential here.

I guess one could do the same with the other commercial license too.Right?

Realistically, (this won't be a popular comment) I think that these tuning programs belong in the hands of the Workshop and not the general public. This is the route that Lyndon has chosen.

I'm not sure where I'm going with tuning yet. On the one hand having EFI Live in the hands of the general public is a neat idea. On the other hand, it creates some real issues with those doing custom tunes, tuner mfrs, etc. At issue is how to distribute tunes while maintaining copyright protection.

I've had inquiries as to custom tunes, and will eventually do them, but in all likelihood it will be on an exchange ECM. This limits the customer base.

P.S. All that I have made so far is junk, or non performance tunes, but that is part of the feeling out process...

I'm very happy with the tune Lyndon did on mine. What he charges is more than fair for what you're getting. We had some issues with my first PCM(it turned out to be dead) & had to send it back & forth a couple times, talked on the phone a few times, etc....He always returned my calls & e-mails.

PS--the tune is pretty damn sweet too.

I'm not trying to tick anyone off here, just stating my opinion on a few things. As I stated in another post, I plan to purchase the EFIlive when funds are availible.

For $699 I purchased the 10 tune Quad, and at any time I can change tire size, gears, and go to one of 10 different tunes. (Maybe this is no bargain to you, but it beats the pants off of a single PCM tune for $500+. The EFIlive is a much better bargain as well. (At $699) I can then change the tune to one of maybe 1000`s, and also change for tire, gear choices, as well as change top speed, rpm, and maybe tranny settings.
I would never purchse a single custom tune that I have to go back to the shop for changes, that may or may not cost extra.

This is just my opinion, nobody else`s just mine!

Mike
Based on posts you have made the last two days regarding ECM tuning I can see where you coming from. You have never had a vehicle tuned, you probably never will, and you have no idea what is involved. That's ok, you're obviously satisfied with the Quad/AFE combo. I'm glad you are happy with your choice, really, but that's where it ends. You are conveying a negative attitude towards some vendors here and the product they are bringing to market. Why? You spent at least $1000+ on your setup and what do you have? 2, 3, or 4 canned tunes and an over priced air filter that gained you absolutely nothing? Your comments regarding the cost of additional EFI licenses and now this are embarrassing. Do you work for free, I doubt it! I for one am welcoming these new products with open arms, they will surely push the Duramax to new heights. Comments like yours do nothing but propagate negative attitudes and drive manufactures away from the forums. Maybe you should spend time researching this technology adn expanding your knowledge base rather than voicing your negative point of view on the forums. :rant:




Have a great day!

Mike
I appologize for coming off like that, I may have been suffering from some lingering road rage from the ride in and I thought you may have been complaining about the $99 license fee, sorry. It looks like you may be taking the plunge, that's great!

I see you are using a G-tech, I am thinking about one but have a few questions. Can we talk G-tech off line? PM me or email me at 1dskinner@comcast.net, I would like to know more.

I'm very happy with the tune Lyndon did on mine. What he charges is more than fair for what you're getting. We had some issues with my first PCM(it turned out to be dead) & had to send it back & forth a couple times, talked on the phone a few times, etc....He always returned my calls & e-mails.

PS--the tune is pretty damn sweet too.

Yes...definitely could have been faster if we didn't have that dead PCM you bought shipped back and forth twice.

Happy New Year !!

Lyndon :cool:
www.ecmprogrammer.com (http://www.ecmprogrammer.com)
Westers Garage -- 20Years !

Toy #1 -- 2001 C5 Convertible
Toy #2 -- 2004 LLY Duramax
Toy #3 -- 2005 SSR LS2
Work truck - 1998 6.5TD HOT !

If you think the average guy will pay $550 for programming without any hard parts to make changes whenever he/she likes, you are being very very very optimistic. I would think you would have a hard time getting more then maybe $100. I know if I went to a tuning garage for a custom tune, and was quoted $550 for that service, I would first faint, then laugh, and walk out, to never return to that shop. For not much more then that, you have a huge number of programmers/tuners to choose from. (And a few that are priced lower!)

I paid $600 for my reflash from Wester's. No moving parts. No widgets or do-dads. After I installed the new pcm, I stepped into a different vehicle. Most bang for the buck mod I've done. That's just my experience with my 6.5L.

I paid $225 for a hypertech power chip for my ford. It's cheaper alright. I honestly can't say that I feel any difference with or without the chip.

You get what you pay for I suppose.

As long as we are bringing up old threads, I think I'll say my piece as well. Lyndon is a phenominal programmer and a great person to deal with.

With this aside, I have never had anything in my truck that pulls as hard or smooth as a custome tune from Wester's. Reguardless of the customer service or likability of Lyndon and his enterprise, I would still buy his tunes because they are simply the best I have found.

For those that say, "I can see spending $600 for a single , non-changable tune", you probably haven't driven with a Wester's tune. I have had Hypertech, Predator, Edge...they don't compare!

Just my $.02:rant:

BTW, I am in no way affiliated with Lyndon nor do I try and sell his product for any gain. I took a chance a few years back and went with a custom gasser tune and have been getting tunes ever since (96 5.7L, 97 6.5T, 99 5.3L, 2002 6.6L, 2005 6.6L...)

Unless I'm wrong here my impression is a custom tune is exactly that, a single tune.
That in itself is good, but what about us old farts that will use a mostly modest tune but on occasion want a kick butt, haul a$$, Banzai run, like you want to beat this PS Furd in the WORST way, isn't that where selectable tunes come in?
That said if I am correct the EFI live will give a selection of tunes that you can program yourself if so desired which will give the best of all worlds if one has the smarts to create decent tunes.
This isn't ment as a slap in the face for single tuners but like in my place I commute 70 mi RT daily so an economy tune stacked with a power tune would fit the bill nicely.
No matter who is the programmer.
Merle

my friend is looking at this for his 03...he is looking for MPG gain over anything else

Unless I'm wrong here my impression is a custom tune is exactly that, a single tune.
That in itself is good, but what about us old farts that will use a mostly modest tune but on occasion want a kick butt, haul a$$, Banzai run, like you want to beat this PS Furd in the WORST way, isn't that where selectable tunes come in?
That said if I am correct the EFI live will give a selection of tunes that you can program yourself if so desired which will give the best of all worlds if one has the smarts to create decent tunes.
This isn't ment as a slap in the face for single tuners but like in my place I commute 70 mi RT daily so an economy tune stacked with a power tune would fit the bill nicely.
No matter who is the programmer.
Merle

We've set up the ECM on several LB7 trucks for nice, daily driving--and also to be real head turners at the track. I know there's 'switchable' tunes out there, but it really wreaks havoc with the adaptives that the Allison learns in...strictly my opinion.
Sorry for not chiming in here a lot, but we've been very busy keeping up with new GM products.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com (http://www.ecmprogrammer.com)
Westers Garage

Is there a baseline reprogram (other than stock) to start with?

Lyndon can help you with anything.We signed up with him a montha go and have been very pleased what he has done for us with our customers, he will not stop til its perfect and its what they want.If you need any help or have questions you can contact us.

Any dyno numbers on the Westers Extreme tune ????

:)

The last time i hit the dyno it made 530hp and 1080ftlbs. I since have a newer version that has more fuel but have yet to dyno it:( I wanted to try and test that one before i installed the BD turbo but time didnt allow. With the BD on now i can tell from the boost that it needs more fuel. I do know that Lyndon is working on a tune for the BD along with one for Twins. Sounds like your getting some good numbers with your tunes Tony. Good Job :ro)

The last time i hit the dyno it made 530hp and 1080ftlbs. I since have a newer version that has more fuel but have yet to dyno it:( I wanted to try and test that one before i installed the BD turbo but time didnt allow. With the BD on now i can tell from the boost that it needs more fuel. I do know that Lyndon is working on a tune for the BD along with one for Twins. Sounds like your getting some good numbers with your tunes Tony. Good Job :ro)
So explain to me what you do here, you swap ecm's when you want the extreme tune and something else for daily driving? Don't have a switch on the fly like some others have such as TTS? Trying to understand exactly how Westers works. You either send in your ecm (I'am assuming you have a spare) to them or one of their venders who reflashes it with the tune you want or sells you an new ecm with the new program loaded and sends it back, is that correct? If a new upgrade comes out is there a break on the cost for the upgrade or same base price? How long does it take from order to product in hand? Humor me I'm old and slow.;)

So explain to me what you do here, you swap ecm's when you want the extreme tune and something else for daily driving? Don't have a switch on the fly like some others have such as TTS? Trying to understand exactly how Westers works. You either send in your ecm (I'am assuming you have a spare) to them or one of their venders who reflashes it with the tune you want or sells you an new ecm with the new program loaded and sends it back, is that correct? If a new upgrade comes out is there a break on the cost for the upgrade or same base price? How long does it take from order to product in hand? Humor me I'm old and slow.;)


Thats a downfall of Westers if you want a smaller tune for daily driving.....there is no switch to drop HP levels. The good thing is the big tunes have good street manners and can be driven daily around town. I drive mine with the big tune every day i get to drive it :cool: If you didnt live close to a vendor (as i do) a second ECM would be a good way of doing things. Upgrades are free and they get better with each one. A call to Lyndon would be the best to see what shipping times would be or if there is a vendor close to you that could get you set up with one.

I'm hitting the rollers sometime in March with Steven AKA ZR1160. He'll be running his twins and I'm still with my stock charger(for now) I'll post results with the latest LB7 tune when we're done.


Nick

Does Steve have the custom tune for the twins Lyndon was working on?

I'm hitting the rollers sometime in March with Steven AKA ZR1160. He'll be running his twins and I'm still with my stock charger(for now) I'll post results with the latest LB7 tune when we're done.


Nick
You Canooks are really getting with the program!! My truck is orginally from Edmonton. I even starting to be able to understand how hot 20C is? Does that make me an honorary canook? EAA?

Yup but it will be revised for more fuel and boost as soon as the head studs are installed.


Nick

You Canooks are really getting with the program!! My truck is orginally from Edmonton. I even starting to be able to understand how hot 20C is? Does that make me an honorary canook? EAA?



Not untill you learn how to say EH ):h

Not untill you learn how to say EH ):h
Never get that right. sounds like EAAA. I'm a hockey nut and went to college at the U of Alaska Fairbanks. All the Canadian bad boy hockey players who where tossed out everywhere else ended up in Fairbanks. Had a lot of fun with those guys EHHH:grd:

:lol: We have our moments. Hope to see ya at Diesel Thunder this year:ro) ask Nathan about it when you pick up the new TwinMax:ro)

You Canooks are really getting with the program!! My truck is orginally from Edmonton. I even starting to be able to understand how hot 20C is? Does that make me an honorary canook? EAA?

LOL, hold down the dot on the mirror for 10 seconds and the display will change to F.


Feel gooder now Eh?:ro)

LOL, hold down the dot on the mirror for 10 seconds and the display will change to F.


Feel gooder now Eh?:ro)
No Juice I got an old one, inside temp knob is in C painted right on the dash.
:cool2:

No Juice I got an old one, inside temp knob is in C painted right on the dash.
:cool2:

Ahh, auto temp ctrls thing.

That's tough buddy):h

C is for CANADIAN don't you know!:ro)

Anyone tried any of Lyndons tunes on a zf truck yet, just looking for some input here before i go into my next tuning adventure here?

Thanx
Caleb

Caleb works very well

Thanx Scott,
What can be done as far as cel and running different turbos can the cel be turnd off with the programing or would i still need something like efi live?
Second question, are these tunes custom per truck or do you have just a couple different ones to chose from?

thanx,
Caleb

Ps. Scott is the garret kit ready for the LLY yet?

Thanx Scott,
What can be done as far as cel and running different turbos can the cel be turnd off with the programing or would i still need something like efi live?
Second question, are these tunes custom per truck or do you have just a couple different ones to chose from?

thanx,
Caleb

Ps. Scott is the garret kit ready for the LLY yet?

Caleb,
Why is teh light on first?Can we shut the light off yes.These are all custom tunes.We will keep tuning it to you are happy Lyndon will do what ever it takes to make you happy.No the lb7 will be out here in march.LLy their after by May garret says

Scott, i dont have a check engine light yet but if my VVT would happen to fall off and get replaced with a non vvt turbo it would come on, i was just wondering if it could be made to not come on with the westers programing!

Thanx,
Caleb

Scott, i dont have a check engine light yet but if my VVT would happen to fall off and get replaced with a non vvt turbo it would come on, i was just wondering if it could be made to not come on with the westers programing!

Thanx,
Caleb

No worries there, Caleb. That's a non-issue with our programming.

Lyndon
www.ecmprogrammer.com (http://www.ecmprogrammer.com)
Westers Garage