Here's why I orderd a Duramax:


News
Ford's diesel drama drags on: Power Stroke woes anger buyers, drive up warranty costs
RICHARD TRUETT | Automotive News
Posted Date: 12/14/05
James and Penny Schrader have bought Fords faithfully for 30 years.

But persistent problems with the Power Stroke diesel engine in their 2004 F-250 pickup have unraveled three decades of brand loyalty. The Schraders, both 63, put a second mortgage on their home in Linden, Mich., to buy the $45,000 truck. Now they say they'll probably never buy another Ford.

"My husband wouldn't look at anything else," says Penny Schrader of their pickup. "But I don't care how good their product was in the past. They haven't treated me well as a loyal customer."

The Schraders aren't alone. Ford Motor Co. has been sued at least 58 times by consumers who bought 2003- and 2004-model Power Stroke trucks. The company also has fielded more than 12,000 consumer complaints, according to Ford's internal warranty data.

Not a minor flaw

This isn't a minor flaw that Ford can dispatch with basic service. The Power Stroke's warranty repair costs are battering Ford's bottom line. In a conference call with Wall Street analysts last March, a company executive acknowledged that Ford's diesel-powered super-duty pickups suffered from quality problems.

Ford has declined to estimate the cost of fixing those defective Power Stroke engines. But Ford has acknowledged that its warranty costs ballooned by $500 million through the first nine months of 2005, compared with the same period a year earlier.

Ford says it is honoring the engine's five-year, 100,000-mile warranty and doing everything it can to repair it. And newer versions of the engine in late 2004- and 2005-model pickups are more reliable.

But the problem will continue to fester. Ford already has sold more than 384,000 diesel trucks with potentially defective engines. And customers like the Schraders appear ready to abandon the brand.

Fixing its diesel problems - in terms of both engine performance and public confidence - is crucial for Ford because the stakes are enormous: Diesels account for about 25 percent of all F-series sales, and the 6.0-liter Power Stroke is a $5,000 option. The engine is offered on medium- and heavy-duty pickups, and had been offered on the discontinued Ford Excursion SUV.

From 225,000 to 250,000 diesel-powered F-series trucks are sold each year, at prices ranging from $30,000 to $50,000-plus.

If Ford can't put things right, the Power Stroke could cause a consumer backlash similar to that of Chrysler's problem-plagued Ultradrive transmission, which alienated minivan owners in the early 1990s.

"If this isn't fixed, and fixed right, and customer satisfaction put back on track, there will be fallout," says Art Spinella, president of CNW Marketing Research Inc. in Bandon, Ore. "Ford will lose buyers to Dodge and General Motors."

Trouble from the start

The 6.0-liter Power Stroke engine has been troublesome from the day it was launched in the fall of 2002. It replaced a somewhat unrefined 7.3-liter diesel.

The powertrain was built by a longtime Ford diesel supplier, International Truck and Engine Corp., of Melrose Park, Ill.

For this version of the engine, International Truck designed a unique high-pressure fuel-injection system.

Most automakers use only electronic controls to operate the fuel injectors in a common-rail system. But the Power Stroke's fuel injectors are operated by a high-pressure oil pump as well as electronics.

According to several of the 150-plus complaints posted on the Web site of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, some trucks never even made it home from the dealership before the fuel injectors or turbocharger failed.

The engine also has been plagued with leaky fuel injectors, oil leaks, broken turbochargers, wiring harness troubles, faulty sensors, defective exhaust gas recirculation valves and bad computers.

Since the engine debuted three years ago, Ford has issued at least 77 technical service bulletins. That is far above average, even for a new engine. These bulletins tell mechanics how to diagnose and fix various problems.

By comparison, there have been eight service bulletins for GM's Duramax diesel V-8 and none for the diesel engine in the Dodge Ram truck. Both engines debuted at about the same time as the Power Stroke.

After just a year on the market, International almost completely redesigned the Power Stroke's fuel system, replacing or redesigning nearly 500 parts. That helped reduce the number of problems, but did not cure the engine of all its ills. Ford has voluntarily recalled the engine at least twice to fix various problems.

The troubles have caused a rift in relations between Ford and International.

The engine can be repaired and made reliable, says International spokesman Bob Carso. Engineers from Ford and International have fixed the problems that plagued the early versions of the engine, he said.

But Carso says the engine is extremely complex and requires "outstanding diagnostic capabilities" to properly identify and repair the faulty parts.

Less help from Ford?

When the Power Stroke's troubles surfaced, Ford tried hard to keep customers happy. In the summer of 2003, Ford took the unusual step of buying back 500 trucks, mostly because of fuel system problems.

But two diesel technicians say Ford has changed the way it deals with the engine problems.

"When they first started out with the 6.0-liter, Ford had a team that was looking over every bit of it and just doing whatever it took to get them fixed," says Mark Ward, a master diesel technician at Landers McLarty Ford in Bentonville, Ark. "And then that just shut off like a light when Ford found out how much losses they were having."

Ward contends Ford is trying to shift more repair costs onto consumers.

"We used to replace turbochargers left and right if the fins had any damage to them," he says. "Now they (Ford) won't accept a turbo back with any fin damage. They are saying if there is any (turbocharger) fin damage whatsoever, it has to be from a dirty air filter. You have to inform the customer that Ford won't pay for that. It's $700, plus the labor."

The fin is the part of the turbocharger that is driven by engine's exhaust system.

"When the 6.0 is running properly, it has much better performance than the 7.3 did," says Charles Ledger, a Ford master technician from Oroville, Calif. "Unfortunately, the 6.0 is plagued with sensor problems." Ledger dispenses advice on his Dieselmann Web site (intellidog.com/dieselmann/home.html).

Ford: No change in policy

Cisco Codina, president of Ford's customer service division, says Ford is not blaming consumers or trying to shift repair costs onto buyers.

"We have not changed any policies whatsoever as it relates to defective material," Codina says. "We don't try to put this blame on the customers. We will spend whatever amount of time and money necessary to help customers who have problems."

Not all of the Power Stroke's defects can be blamed on Ford and International. Consumers may cause problems by installing unauthorized parts that boost engine output. Aftermarket computer chips and exhaust systems can upset the delicate tuning of the engine and cause head gaskets to blow out, Ward says.

Last year Ford and International officials told Automotive News that the Power Stroke's troubles were over. But that turns out to be only partially true.

The engines made today have a better record for reliability, according to NHTSA (see story, above). But those 2003- and early 2004-model engines keep breaking down. And consumers are angry at having to return to the dealership time after time for "reflashes" - new software to be installed in the vehicle's engine computer or other repairs.

Getting better

The number of complaints for 2005 Power Stroke engines has dropped sharply compared with earlier versions since last year's redesign of the engine's fuel system.

But there still are thousands on the road that are not reliable - and may never be. Design deficiencies in some faulty parts, Ward says, have not been addressed.

"If you look at the part number at the new one you are putting on, it's identical to the one you are taking out," notes Ward, the Arkansas technician. "If you start out with something cheap, what do you expect to happen?"

Ward details the engine's troubles and Ford's technical service bulletins on his Web site, flatratetech.com.

The Power Stroke's troubles are reminiscent of Chrysler Corp.'s A-604 automatic transmission - dubbed Ultradrive - that was introduced in Chrysler minivans in 1989. The first versions of the electronically shifted transmission had more problems than a calculus book. Technicians couldn't fix them, consumers were fuming, and Chrysler ended up replacing thousands of transmissions under warranty.

But Codina says Power Stroke has generated more complaints than rival diesels simply because more diesel Fords are on the road.

Says Codina: "We try to address each and every (problem) as we became aware of them. I am sure I am not aware of all of them. But if they (consumers) come to us, we try to do our very best. But today if you have one or two problems, people are not very happy with you."

One more chance

As for the Schraders, three days before they were to appear before a Lemon Law arbitration panel in November, Ford offered to buy back their old truck, waive mileage costs and put them in a 2006 model.

After consulting with a lawyer, the Schraders took the deal. The couple left Michigan a few days later for a road trip West. But they are still angry with Ford because they had to spend a year trying to get their truck fixed.

And they will not cut the new truck any slack. If the new truck so much as sputters, James Schrader says he will pull into the nearest Dodge dealership and trade it for a Ram

Glad you switched sides, WELCOME to the DURAMAX family!!!!!!!!!!

We just had a new tranny put in our 97 7.3 PSD (230k original E4OD!, bad pump seal, lost fluid, got too hot) at a truck only dealership, Interstate Ford. In one of the bays was a 6.0 Superduty, everything but the fenders was off and engine was out and apart. The repair tag on the front fender was dated OCT. I talked to the tech and service manager/veteran tech. Truck came in pouring antifreeze out the exhaust. What I was told lines right up with this article. They told me Ford used to change 6.0s and parts quickly and put em right back on the road. Now the engines come out and are analyzed by "specialists" to determine what happened and also if any performance mods were involved before any major work is covered under warranty. In fact these "specialists" know what to look for and if anything other that Ford issue has ever been plugged into these trucks they'll know They even take pictures of harness plugs and diagnostic ports. If anything other than Ford tools was ever plugged in the warranty is void and truck is flagged. They said Ford has denied warranty because of power add ons and customers had to either pay out of pocket for repairs or take their trucks with their engines and/or parts placed in the bed of the truck and get them towed to wherever. Once the Ford reps inspect the engines it's out of the dealers hands. In the case of this truck the truck was "clean" of any power tampering, so the warranty was covering it but, the dealer has had a bay tied up for 2+ months and the poor guy that owns the truck has been driving a compact loaner for 2+ months because of Ford red tape, diagnosis and parts availability problems. The manager said he's been laying into his Ford rep because they are losing customers who are sick of problems and the long turn around time to get them fixed. He said when they run right they run strong but he just wishes they were half as reliable as the 7.3. He blames most of it on the motor just being too complicated and pointed to the egr and compared the new diesels to early 80s gas engines and all the bandaid junk needed to meet EPA standards. The manager did say that they just had a hotshotter come through with an 05 with 190k who "hasn't spent $10 on it" So there are some good ones out there.

"The manager said he's been laying into his Ford rep because they are losing customers"

Yep, they sure are. I'm one of them. :exactly:

I've driven Fords for many years, had three of their diesels. I've always liked them and never had any issues relating to the Powerstroke. I don't keep a truck long, usually 3 or 4 years.

I had just bought a new '02 Powerstroke dually with the 7.3 and have been watching this scenario regarding the 6.0 as it unfolded. I followed "The Diesel Stop" (Ford's equivalent to this site) closely and have read dozens of horror stories.

I even towed another guys fifth wheel for him when his brand new 6.0 Powerstroke puked back in the summer of '03 and he was stranded with a rental car and no way to move his camper.

When I decided to get a new truck this year, I had seen enough to convince me that Ford is losing the battle on the diesels.

I like all trucks and have had just about all of them at least once (never had a Bronco though, someday) The last Ford I bought new as a personal vehicle was a 96 F350 7.3. Awesome trouble free truck I should have never sold, but the guy who owns it now hounded me to sell it to him so I did for top $ and he's had good luck with it. I new the 6.0 was coming and besides being brand new and probably a few bugs, but when I read it was gonna have egr that sealed the deal for me and I ordered a Duramax. So far 3 years with zero engine problems and awesome fuel mileage with the Dmax. When I first heard about egr coming to the new diesels I just looked at the inside of my tailpipe and thought about that going back into the engine and my wifes 97 Tahoe with the 6.5 Diesel had egr so I knew what it does to the engine oil. It just doesn't make sense to me.

""looked at the inside of my tailpipe and thought about that going back into the engine and my wifes 97 Tahoe with the 6.5 Diesel had egr so I knew what it does to the engine oil. It just doesn't make sense to me."" could you explain that please??

what he means is the soot build up on his tailpipe, is the same thing that is happening inside your engine when you recurculate your exhaust through your engine, thats what the egr does. But the duramax in stock form doesn't have near as much soot build up as a 6.5, but i know what you mean, thats why im keeping my 02

we could eliminate many problems if we eliminate the EPA.

we could eliminate many problems if we eliminate the EPA.
If only it was that simple:bawl: :banghead: :confuzeld .

I've been searching this site pretty heavily lately & learning a lot. Thanks to everybody.
How do you eliminate the EGR on a 6.5?

and i was considering trying to look for a powerstroke. -:tnow i'm probably not gonna get one. i'll probably just stick with the good old chevy! :D

Brandon

Well, I've got to say I'm pretty happy with my Powerstroke. I also think you all need to take a look at the real TSB numbers which are 12 for the 6.0 not 77. Also they were off on the cummins not having any. There's a post about it on thedieselstop. Of course after the facts were thrown in all the 6.0 bashers went away! :exactly:

phew at least you saw the end at the end of the tunnel ....

Why Does Ford have to mess with a good thing. They had a great motor in the 7.3 and screwed it up by starting all over again with new problems. I heard Dodge might be going to a Marcede's Trany. If thats the case....Im going Dodge.....screw the 6.0 !

The 6.0 is ten times better than the 7.3! I've had 2 7.3's and 2 6.0's and neither 7.3 would hold a candle to either 6.0!

The 6.0 is ten times better than the 7.3! I've had 2 7.3's and 2 6.0's and neither 7.3 would hold a candle to either 6.0!

Maybe not power wise but longevity the 7.3 will last longer with way fewer problems.

How do you figure that? I'd just like to know where you get your info. These 6.0's are built pretty stout. Sure they've had some growing pains. Name me one diesel that hasn't? Ever wonder why they had to extend the warranty on those injectors in the dmax, ever wonder why the dmax has gone from lb7, lly, lbz not sure of the order but I'm sure you get my point. Ain't none of them perfect and the 7.3 had a laundry list of troubles too. CPS, EBV, Cackle just to name a few. I'll rack up some miles on the truck and see what happens and if turns out to be a pile then I'll pull that 6.0 and put a duramax in it. :lol:












:joke:

at least gm extended their warrranty what did ford do for their customers:think:

oh yeah, and the torque shift probably would handle the power, :lol: :stirthepo :joke:

PSD 7.3 is a great motor. We still own one 97 with 235k , only minor issues. I've been getting the Power Stroke Registry since it first came out shortly after I bought my 96 F350 new. They list the the latest TSBs in the back. I think the newest issue had at least a whole page of over 20 for the 6.0 trucks. The 6.0 has been changed, revised, and recalibrated countless times since coming out in 2003 and next year it's gone for a 6.4 liter. No thanks.

Got to work today and double checked. Winter 05 editon of PSR, listed 14 latest SD and Excursion TSBs in back, only 9 were 6.0 related.

9 is a just a tad bit less than 77 don't ya think! :exactly: :lol:

i cant comment on this one a whole lot, because the only 6.0l's ive driven were bone stock, one of them already hada 140k on it, the other was brand new, the high milage truck lived its life plowing snow and towing equipment, not a single problem with either, the only problem i have had with my modded 7.3psd is trans, and a few cpsensor's

I have driven both brand new. I had a good friend family couple who bought an F250 lariat 4x4 the same day I bought my truck. I thought the fors had good visibility, good power, and good looks. I felt like my GMC had better low end torque right off idle where it took the 6.0 a few seconds to wind up. I found that the ford felt stronger up at higher rpms too. I would love to have pulled some weight with it. Sad thing is, first came a bad head gasket, then the turbo took a crap, then the block somehow cracked and they had enough with it. It was one thing after another. I think they got 10,000 miles out of it before they traded it in. I have no problems with FORD. Hell, I own one. I drive one everyday at work and they have never let me down. The only thing I will own from here till the day that I die will be either GM product or a Ford product.

9 is a just a tad bit less than 77 don't ya think! :exactly: :lol:

The 9 listed were the latest since last issue, not since 2003.25. Is that 06 6.0 ZF6 any stronger off idle than the earlier 6.0 sticks? The only 6.0 standard I've driven was an 04 and it was gutless at low rpms, but I've heard they've gotten better since. I've also been told they still won't get a load moving like the 7.3 will. My Dmax has enough low end torque that I can ease the clutch out and it will do a 1st gear brake stand at idle (dry pavement). Slowest, least amount of smoke, brake stand you've ever seen.

I had an 03 6 speed and it was alright but not near what my 05 is. Of course I got 4.10's. Still for weighing in at 8400lbs that thing will move. Shoot when I'm in traffic on the I15 I can start out in 3rd gear.

My dad has an 05 6.0 and that thing is fun to drive, it will smoke any stock duramax or cummins from light to light all day long. He gets about 16 to 18 mpg too.

Sure pal.:funnypost He's been:drinking:

Hey I was driving it when I found out what it would do. I was smoking my friend's 06 duramax every time, we would restart and I would beat him over and over.

over and over how many times did you race, sounds like you have to much time on your hands:lol: all the trucks a pretty close in stock form, so what was it a reg cab against a 4 door dually, im not saying a 6.0 won't out run a dmax, but both stock it will not "kill" it unless you figure a couple feet "killing". thats ok though, im not worried about any, unless their shortened and spraying.):h

thats ok though, im not worried about any, unless their shortened and spraying.):h

I wonder what truck your talking about :lol:

GENE

haha. no I don't have too much time on my hands he just kept wanting to try again for some reason. I guess he couldn't believe that his 2wd 4door brand new duracrap couldn't hang with a 4x4 4door f-250, by the way I guess I didn't "kill" him but I got completely in front of him in about an 8th mile, constantly pulling away dude it was awesome!

duracrap huh, so what is it that YOU drive, not your daddy's truck, it don't matter really though neither of you could hang with the big boys:exactly:

I drive a black '02 f-250 lifted 4" on 35's with a superchip, 5" exhaust, and a performance intake. That's about all I need. I was just talking about how the new diesels ran against eachother, it was pretty interesting.

A new LBZ will beat a new 6.0,period.Same weight,more H.P. and WAY more torque..You do the math.You better finish your homework too.:muahaha:

Yep but is sure is sad those folks that enjoy the handshakers get screwed with just 300/520. I just can't figure gm out! I guess it's cause they can get more money out of the allison combo and Lord knows gm needs all the money they can get! :exactly:

BTW has anyone lined em up yet cause even before the LBZ was out the little 6.0 was whoopin up on the competition with less torque than the other two. In stock form of course! :grd: :lol:

Maybe the tranny wont hold it.Hmmm,a 13 speed and a...Nevermind,my mind was wondering.. I do have to admit,my buddy has an 05 it runs goog,6.0,fast truck,but 2nd motor....:Nothing_f

hmmm gm needs money bad, where does that put ford with all the warranty work on the 6.0's then,:think: thats really killing them, oh yeah no its not, they just screw their customers and find a way to void it.:lol:

I really don't know since I haven't had to take my 6.0 in for warranty work! I'm sure gm would be just as quick to void warranties on modded trucks as Ford or dodge though!

Every type of truck has its problems and I am a Dodge man converted to Ford BUT I tried out the new 6.0 and the salesman was going to let me keep it overnight and I brought it back 1 hour later. I told him that it was the biggest pile of crap I ever drove. The salesman said, "Ya, we are having some problems with the 6.0 ! NICE,FORD! WAY TO GO ! Ya had a good thing with the 7.3 but NOOOOOOO! You had to screw it up and put the 6.0 in it. FORD COMPANY I HOPE YOU READ THIS: You are losing customers by the DOZENS EVERY DAY because of your stupidity. WHy mess with a good thing in the 7.3 . I will never buy a Ford again and I have suggested to everyone that ask's me about the Ford to go elsewhere. I dont care if it's Dodge, Chevy or rollerskates.........just dont be stupid and get the 6.0 . I have freinds that bought the 6.0 and traded it in for a Dodge or Chevy.
WAY TO GO FORD.........IM FILING FOR A DIVORCE ! !

You can't be serious! Go over to the dieselstop and scan through the archives on the 7.3 for a while. I'll get you started though, cackle, CPS, EBV, ICP and if your lucky enough to get PMR's in your 7.3 you'll get the nice rod through the side of the block. No thanks I'll stick with my 6.0! :grd:

It apperas the 7.3 is still being manufactored and installed in many industrial aplications, where as the 6.0 is only found in fUrD TRUCKS?

Where did you get that info? The VT365 is the Internation version of the 6.0 which is used in thier medium duty trucks!

Look here: http://www.navistar.com/site_layout/engine/vt365detail.asp

All that website does is give the specs on the 6.0 . The picture of the semi in the background is just representing International. I drive semi for a living and if you think for that any motor which is in your pickup trucks are suitable for a semi, you have been miss-informed.
I am not saying you have a bad 6.0 . After talking to freinds that own one and trying one out for myself, I would never waste my money on Ford. This hurts me as much as it does you because I love Fords BUT after everything I have seen and heard, I will wait to see if they ever get the 6.0 straightened out enough where it isnt in the shop more than the road before I even think of buying one. I pull a 24' race trailer with my Ford and it does OK. My freind has a Dodge and I cant even tell the trailer is back there. There is a NOTICABLE difference. That Cummings has some AWESOME power !
That is why I might go to Dodge if they ever get the Volvo Trany in it. What it comes down to is what a person likes. Ford, Chevy, Dodge........Just so long as ya got a smoking powered engine in it!

I think you are really missing something here. It doesn't hurt me one bit. I like my truck and am happy with it that doesn't mean I haven't looked elsewhere. Shoot, It was a huge toss up between a dodge 3500 and my truck this go round. If the deal wasn't sweeter for the Ford and I had problems with my previous 6.0 you can bet I'd be drivin the dodge instead of the Ford. BTW it's Cummins not "cummings"! :lol:

I'll rack up some miles on the truck and see what happens and if turns out to be a pile then I'll pull that 6.0 and put a duramax in it. :lol:

:joke:that is absolutely the best use for a ford, should be lots of good used and CHEAP ford trucks out there!:ro) :grd:

Ah, Sorry. Didnt spell check it. That what I get when I dont look over my work. By the way.......if thats a picture of your F-350 it looks awesome. I love my Stroker-250 for now. Until the box falls off or the motor pukes, I think I will stay with it. I would like to put some air bags on the back though. Make the ride a little smoother when pullin that 24' Hallmark. I know the air bags do wonders in the semi so I am assuming they will give the Stroker a smoother ride. Enjoy your ride!

Seriously, EVERY 6.0 owner I talk to except one, has a truck that pukes, has a clogged EGR, loses coolant, and/or has blown the headgaskets.

Thanks! It's mine, it was my homecoming from Iraq present! :cool2:

I was unfamilar with the "VT365" name for the 6.0 and out of curiosity I googled it and found links of school districts crying because there busses are crappin out on'em!I its funny how many Furd and Dudge people hang out on a GM site, Its a'little like a brother asking a klansman for hunting advice and expecting to get good information.

Glad to see you made it back safe and......THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO THIS COUNTRY! We still have freinds over there and are praying for their safe return. I havent got an IM from one of them in a while. We IM back & forth every day. Hope hes ok.

I was unfamilar with the "VT365" name for the 6.0 and out of curiosity I googled it and found links of school districts crying because there busses are crappin out on'em!I its funny how many Furd and Dudge people hang out on a GM site, Its a'little like a brother asking a klansman for hunting advice and expecting to get good information.

Well if this is just a gm only site why do they have a section for the Ford and Dodge and why would a gm owner hang out here? :lol:

Good one superf350. I like the reply.

Eventually ya'll come'round to the Duramax way of thinking so you need a place to transition.:cool:

The dmax and allison might be a heavy hitter but until gm can make a better lookin truck with a solid front axle I'll settle for my lowly Ford! :grd:

Don't get me wrong, I would drive a duramax. That is if it were given to me, and by the way besides the 6.0 being a better motor (05 and up that is) the torqeshift tranny is ten times better than the GM transmission that has a few allison parts in it. Also chevy boys with 4x4, take it easy on those transfer cases cuz if they go out which they will, GM is on national back order.

you don't need a solid front axle for weight pulling...front solid axles are the thing of the past....you get more load rocking with solid axles...that why i change my leaf springs on my semi to air bags.

Some people think if your truck doesnt ride like a skate board and sound like a car shredder it just aint no truck! Good thing these fella's arent incharge of media our we'd all be useing morse code still:lol:

My truck rides just fine and btw there are no leafs on the front of my truck. She's got coils! I gotta admit it was a nice change over the leafs for sure! The turning radius is awesome! I tell ya what though look under the front of yours and then go look under the front of a Ford and tell me which one is the true heavy duty pickup! :ro)

Truck bashing a'side, I do apreciate the job you guys do for our country!!!! and please dont take my smart a$$ post personel. I never got my chance at the debate team so I am makin up for lost time:).

WOW, I had no idea this was a GM site. When I found this forum it was titled, "The Diesel Place", and when I looked under "other vehicles"
and saw "Dodge Cummins" and "Ford Powerstroke". Hmmmmmm. Let me ask you a question? If it's a GM site and you are a GM person......What are you doing clicking on "Ford Powerstroke"? ......I think you wish you had a REAL truck and wanted to see what others have to say about a TRUCK and not a toy. Thats ok, We will take you under our wings. We are happy you came out of the closet and we welcome you to the REAL WORLD OF TRUCKS.

:funnypost :laugh_exp

when you can back up a 53 foot box to a loading dock(smokin joe)until then ,you will always be playing witha toy truck!!!!!

Hey I was driving it when I found out what it would do. I was smoking my friend's 06 duramax every time, we would restart and I would beat him over and over.

A 2006 LLY (stock) will run the quarter in 15.8X
A 2006 LBZ (stock) will run the quarter in 15.4x

Both of those times were obtained with new 2006 trucks by members here at the track.

I dont know what a stock 6.0 Powerstroke runs, but I dont think it is quite that fast.

Ya had a good thing with the 7.3 but NOOOOOOO! You had to screw it up and put the 6.0 in it. !

I agree, the 7.3 was a great engine, but with emmissions requirements, there was no way it was going to stick around for long...

the torqeshift tranny is ten times better than the GM transmission that has a few allison parts in it.

ahh yes...the Dodge boys ride on the Cummins name and milk it for all its worth, and we do the exact same with the Allison. Ford people are just bitter because theres nothing they can hang their hat on.:)

On another note, I actually had to get some tranny fluid and a spin-on filter yesterday, so I went up to one of the main Allison dealers, "Detroit Diesel Allison" in Middletown, CT. I bought my 5 gallons of TranSynd and the guy asked what it was going in. I said "an LCT1000 in a GM pickup". And he said quoate "oh yeah we do work on those, even tho we're not really supposed to because its kinda the GM dealer's territory, but we work on them anyway because they are basically all the same transmissions and many of the parts are all interchangable [with the BIG Allison's]"

GM owns Allison for the record, so technically every part in the LCT1000 is Allison, thru and thru. Im not saying its better than the TorqShift, but what facts are you basing the statement that "the TorqShift is ten times better than the Allison" on??? None?? There is no hard evidence that either tranny is substantially better than the other. Hey Ford!! GREAT new idea on the tow/haul mode that (at one time, but they took it out later:confused: ) includes GRADE BRAKING!!! What a novel, unique original idea! Surely they didnt take a page (or more than that) out of the Allison book...

My truck rides just fine and btw there are no leafs on the front of my truck. She's got coils! I gotta admit it was a nice change over the leafs for sure! The turning radius is awesome! I tell ya what though look under the front of yours and then go look under the front of a Ford and tell me which one is the true heavy duty pickup! :ro)

Superf350--- Im not going to argue with you because we are all forever indebted to you and your fellow servicemen in Iraq, thank you for what you have done!

BUT:D I have not had a problem with my IFS holding up to everything I put it thru, so IMO, as long as "IT" is durable (whatever it is) I really dont care whats under the front end of my truck... I am curious to ride in a 2005 SD tho because I want to see how much improved the coil sprung suspension is...I would assume its better than my friends leaf-sprung '04 F-350/crew cab/PSD. I do like his truck, the cab seems huge compared to my crew cab, the PSD has some good guts once you wind it up, and as far as looks, the Fords and GM's are equal IMO, (dodge=-:t ) but I will say that it does not ride very well at all...

--Ben

Ya your right Lennox69 ! Thats why I have done it for the past 25 years.....
I think we have worn this post to death..............Im out !

Superf350--- Im not going to argue with you because we are all forever indebted to you and your fellow servicemen in Iraq, thank you for what you have done!

BUT:D I have not had a problem with my IFS holding up to everything I put it thru, so IMO, as long as "IT" is durable (whatever it is) I really dont care whats under the front end of my truck... I am curious to ride in a 2005 SD tho because I want to see how much improved the coil sprung suspension is...I would assume its better than my friends leaf-sprung '04 F-350/crew cab/PSD. I do like his truck, the cab seems huge compared to my crew cab, the PSD has some good guts once you wind it up, and as far as looks, the Fords and GM's are equal IMO, (dodge=-:t ) but I will say that it does not ride very well at all...

--Ben

Thanks, I'm not wanting to argue either. We all our passionate about our trucks and that's a good thing! If we all were driving the exact same trucks life would be pretty boring! I'm just thankful we've got choices! :exactly: :cool2:

................taste Great!...............................less.......fi l.....l.....i...n....

MiniMax:The VT365 motor {AKA 6.0L} is used in the F-650/750 combo {235hp/650 ft lbs.} and in the International 4300 {top kick style medium duty trucks as well} lord knows how they pull a load up a hill at all with that light duty engine powering it:badidea: but they do exist in those trucks.

Solid Axle is the only way to go...the Chevy truck is a truck built for those who like cars..if you ever have to REALLY use the 4-wheel drive in one it WILL break..it's bad and should be re-called to at least a Dana 60.

SuperF350: remember 55 psi of boost is all those Smudgepots can handle before your freeze plugs will start dripping:eek: ...and that 06' motor is still for sale in case u need it :muahaha:

How do you figure that? I'd just like to know where you get your info. These 6.0's are built pretty stout. Sure they've had some growing pains. Name me one diesel that hasn't? Ever wonder why they had to extend the warranty on those injectors in the dmax, ever wonder why the dmax has gone from lb7, lly, lbz not sure of the order but I'm sure you get my point. Ain't none of them perfect and the 7.3 had a laundry list of troubles too. CPS, EBV, Cackle just to name a few. I'll rack up some miles on the truck and see what happens and if turns out to be a pile then I'll pull that 6.0 and put a duramax in it. :lol:
:joke:


Yes they are built stout, thats why I cant figure out why they fall apart so much. :confuzeld

The 7.3 PSD, Duramax and Cummins never really had engine probs, just stuff around the engine that went bad, ie; cps, injectors, lift pumps, the 6.0 has had and continues to have complete engine failures!:eek:

They all have, the 7.3 PSD has 3 different variations, the 6.0 has 3, the cummins has 2 as well and the duramax has 3. I might add that only the 7.3 PSD and the Cummins remained basically the same with very few changes. The Duramax is the only one to acknowledged and renamed its variations.

Although the cps was an issue for some, many have never had a problem with it. Im not aware of any exhaust back pressure problems, there are a lot of people who disable the sensor for thier own personal preference, but it has never been an issue. Cackle isnt an issue, its an annoyance to some, for others, its not even noticable. Besides, nobody complains about cackle.

Aslo, how do you figure the 6.0 is better than the 7.3? The 6.0 is faster and quieter, but thats about it! Granted, ive seen a few with over 200k

I gotta say those Furd guys are pretty loyal........infact I think they would eat the scent block out of a urinal if it had fORD stampded in it!

sorry some of us do use are 4 wheel drive around here, plenty of sled pullers sneekin up in your dodge guys territory, dont worry it will happen):h oh and by the way dont be mad you have a great engine, just an ugly pos wrapped around it, its almost a waste:lol: :joke:

I gotta say those Furd guys are pretty loyal........infact I think they would eat the scent block out of a urinal if it had fORD stampded in it!

I'm not sure I follow your line of thinking. I paid big bucks for my truck and if it was anywhere near the P.O.S the other brands claim it is let me tell ya I wouldn't be on the net talking about how great my truck is! I'd be on Mr. Fords doorstep gettin my money back.

Well cummnzpowr I've got some injectors on the way so I might end up needin that block. I guess we'll see what happens when the sucker gets some fuel to burn! :cool: :ro)

I gotta say those Furd guys are pretty loyal........infact I think they would eat the scent block out of a urinal if it had fORD stampded in it!

hmm...Seems like you just need some attention. Fords must peak your interest, after all, you are posting in the Ford section!:rolleyes:

here we go again!!!!!!!which is the real truck competition......the real truck are made by peterbilt,kennworth,freightliner,mack...what all of you are driving is a grocery go geter with a open trunk with no lid!!!!!!!

Solid Axle is the only way to go...the Chevy truck is a truck built for those who like cars..if you ever have to REALLY use the 4-wheel drive in one it WILL break

try something on here called a SEARCH. You will find that there have been no problems with the Chevy IFS setup. Yes its IFS, yes, its the same THEORY as some suspention used on cars, but dude, come on, its not taken bolt for bolt off of a Volkswagen Beetle... Anyone who picks on GM trucks for their IFS is totally barking up the wrong tree. It has never been a problem and is a durable front end setup. Mine has countless boosted launches on it and once you sleeve the tierods it is MUCH stronger than you would think a "silly IFS" is. You want to pick on GM? Go pick on the Duramax's injector problems. Thats totally fair game because it IS somewhat of a problem, unlike the IFS. ANd until the front end of my truck collapses, ill be enjoying my NICE ride (oh I can already see the "its a truck I dont want it to ride like a caddy" response), good handleing, and strong 4x4 components.

--Ben


btw anyone know what kind of suspension the military Hummers have........? :)

Duratothemax,
Some of these ford guys, just have to have somthing to cry about. I can bet that i am harder on my truck than 95% people on this site, some of it work, some of it racing. Now i am partners w/dad in our remanufacturing plant :Pre cut wood for houses, mobil homes and R.V. trailers( jaco & kit): anyways the sawdust i deliver to dairy's for cow bedding,the triler holds 38 yards and is around 18-22k ibs, and all the dairys is bumpy-muddy mess, i have to put in 4 low every time, i have slammed the front more times than i can remember, hit 3300 rpm in 4low thousands of times back this trailer up a slight hill and get a ,little run at it while spinning all the way up, and then there is racing, boosted launches, even burnning out in 4 wheel drive, then come monday, i have to hook up the trailer and do it again. I have 64k on my truck and i have never had my truck in the shop for motor/tranny /drivetrain problems, my take on the IFS is just as srong if not stronger than straight axle. Go head and argue w/me but i have seen/done the harshness i have put on my truck and i should have broke somthing each time i go out, but it still keeps going & going & going & going & going. Cody

You know I have never ever seen a Ford with the front tires trying to kiss each other in a sled pull and if your front end is so stout why do the hotrod drag racers and sled pullers have to put on aftermarket tierod sleeves. I'd put my dana 60 against that IFS any day! :ninja:

tie rod sleeves are 120 dollars and the front tires that try to kiss eachother are on unsleeved trucks. Sleeved tie rods are not any weaker than a SFA, there are no experiences to prove the the SFA is that much stronger, you are just going on what "seems" like it would be stronger in your head. Ask Mike Tomac. He pulls "a little" with his Dmax and never had any front end problems. Find me an actual case of a Dmax that has serious front end problems due to the IFS and ill shut up and never touch on the issue again.

Whats the big deal about needing to put something aftermarket on? At stock power levels there is no need for tie rod sleeves. Drag racers and truck pullers are putting so much more power thru it so yes, they do need sleeves, but thats understandable. Youre asking it to do something it wasnt designed to do. And if the CV angles are fairly straight, CV joints are actually stronger than U-joints. I DO remember reading that somewhere.

Fastest Dmax: NLDP, 11 seconds flat, 10s coming soon on stock engine (bigger turbo, injectors, nitrous), and its a real truck that weighs as much as a real truck.

Fastest 6.0: Gene Wewald, 11.5, and that is FARRRR from a stock truck. Basically build from the ground up, shortend, huge weight reduction etc...

NLDP doesnt have any problems with their front end holding up to 11 second runs...

[quote=superf350;885264]You know I have never ever seen a Ford with the front tires trying to kiss each other in a sled pull and if your front end is so stout why do the hotrod drag racers and sled pullers have to put on aftermarket tierod sleeves. I'd put my dana 60 against that IFS any day! :ninja:[/quote

well when you do see a ford pulling it rarely makes it half way down the track, and when they do make it farther its usually cause its powered by a cummins:exactly: , go to duramaxracing.com and see if you see any tire tow in:exactly: , oh yeah and id rather sleeve my tie rods than swap engines to be competitive):h

I have raced powerstokes and have seen there front end look like a drunk on the street,(boosted 4wd launches) im sure mine does the same thing but i have done a lot of boosted launches, and even spun all tires, my wifes cousin,husbands 04 powerstroke, i raced him on friday we lined up did the 4wd launch, he did not, but always have done in the past, i win jumped him off the line "real bad" but what ever he did to his pickup made it a little faster,anyways i asked why no 4wd launch, reply "4wd is a little noise,dont want to blow it up until it gets checked out" how funny he has 19k on his and he hardly drives his,as to were i drive mine all tyhe time AND use mine for work w/64k no noises no prblems, i know for a fact that i have just as much boosted 4wd launches as he does, i also use mine for work at which it requires use my 4wd for helping me push the trailer through mud and rock....slamming...rocking....and bottoming out every time i go, so i can safely say THERE TUFF, @ which i do have my torsion raised to match the back height, Like Duratothemax said show us some real proof that these are weak, i just wish you could go w/me on one trip to show you the punishment i put the truck through 2-4 days a week.Im not trying to glorify the IFS, im just telling what i do to mine and the outcome of it so far.NO PROBLEMS):h

tie rod sleeves are 120 dollars and the front tires that try to kiss eachother are on unsleeved trucks. Sleeved tie rods are not any weaker than a SFA, there are no experiences to prove the the SFA is that much stronger, you are just going on what "seems" like it would be stronger in your head. Ask Mike Tomac. He pulls "a little" with his Dmax and never had any front end problems. Find me an actual case of a Dmax that has serious front end problems due to the IFS and ill shut up and never touch on the issue again.

Whats the big deal about needing to put something aftermarket on? At stock power levels there is no need for tie rod sleeves. Drag racers and truck pullers are putting so much more power thru it so yes, they do need sleeves, but thats understandable. Youre asking it to do something it wasnt designed to do. And if the CV angles are fairly straight, CV joints are actually stronger than U-joints. I DO remember reading that somewhere.

Fastest Dmax: NLDP, 11 seconds flat, 10s coming soon on stock engine (bigger turbo, injectors, nitrous), and its a real truck that weighs as much as a real truck.

Fastest 6.0: Gene Wewald, 11.5, and that is FARRRR from a stock truck. Basically build from the ground up, shortend, huge weight reduction etc...

NLDP doesnt have any problems with their front end holding up to 11 second runs...

Gene's truck has injectors from bean, custom tune from John Woods, Nitrous and the tranny is done by John Woods. As far as weight reduction he did that himself and 10's are not to far away.

You fellas crack me up with no Powerstrokes being competitive. I can think of a few right off the top of my head. BBunting, Psycostroker, and Powersnorter. I also think someone is using Johnboys truck as a puller also.

Gene's truck has injectors from bean, custom tune from John Woods, Nitrous and the tranny is done by John Woods. As far as weight reduction he did that himself and 10's are not to far away.

You fellas crack me up with no Powerstrokes being competitive. I can think of a few right off the top of my head. BBunting, Psycostroker, and Powersnorter. I also think someone is using Johnboys truck as a puller also.

:think: any 6.0's

Dockboy's truck is also fast...his is a 7.3 tho I think...

I dont think Wewald is in the same class really. That thing is shortend, lowered and only weighs like 4,000 pounds. 11.5 down to 10.9 is a pretty hard jump...lowering times gets progessivley harder as you go down.

NLDP may correct me, but I think that truck weighs almost 6,000...just think what it would do if it was shortend, and weighed only 4,000 pounds!

are there any other 6.0's in the 11s?

I passed an 03 a few weeks ago on the interstate. i was doing 75 and he was right about 73 so I was barely nudging past him. He had banks power stickers above the power stroke emblem. I wasnt gonna mess with him. I figured that my hypertech on 3 wasnt hot enough to run with banks. I did see him look over and eye the truck down. I guess you can say I knew better. He got off the next exit.

Dockboy's truck is also fast...his is a 7.3 tho I think...

I dont think Wewald is in the same class really. That thing is shortend, lowered and only weighs like 4,000 pounds. 11.5 down to 10.9 is a pretty hard jump...lowering times gets progessivley harder as you go down.

NLDP may correct me, but I think that truck weighs almost 6,000...just think what it would do if it was shortend, and weighed only 4,000 pounds!

are there any other 6.0's in the 11s?

Gene's truck weighs 5300lbs without him in it. Go to SoCaps.com to get the facts!

:think: any 6.0's

I think there are a few out there. Now the U.S. is a pretty big place so just because you don't here of any in your neck of the woods doesn't mean there isn't any! I'm still up in the air whether I'll use mine as a puller or not. I can tell ya the coils up front are not puller friendly! Plus my truck has to go on a diet to make the 8,000lb rule.

I've never seen an amulance, a company truck, a fire truck, or anytype of vehicle that needs a reliable source of power use a duramax. They are pieces of junk to the max. And I have never seen a hotshotter use one either because I heard they start losing power at 100k. I have pulled hitch to hitch with them and pulled them till they locked up their brakes and started yelling at me, and I have raced the newest ones with my dad's new 6.0 and beat them light to light all day long and from a stand still. (my friend has an '06 duramax) Take a duramax and spend some money on mods and beat a stoke powerstroke and then you are the king of all trucks as you all say, Let a psd owner spend some money and see what happens.

I've never seen an amulance, a company truck, a fire truck, or anytype of vehicle that needs a reliable source of power use a duramax. They are pieces of junk to the max.

Thats because Ford is the lowest bidder when it comes to supplying the chassis. The Duramax has been out since 2001, thats not long, and no, ive never seen a Kodiak ambulance, that doesnt mean anything. You cannot tell me the 6.0h no is as reliable as the old 7.3.


And I have never seen a hotshotter use one either because I heard they start losing power at 100k.

uh-huh ok keep talking..."losing power at 100k"...im not even gonna answer that one...

maybe HD rider can answer that. His '02 dually had 491,000 when he sold it. Or (i forget his name) who currently has 341,000

I have pulled hitch to hitch with them and pulled them till they locked up their brakes and started yelling at me

thats the stupidest statement ever. Pulling trucks hitch to hitch proves NOTHING. Everybody knows that.

and I have raced the newest ones with my dad's new 6.0 and beat them light to light all day long and from a stand still. (my friend has an '06 duramax)

Then he obviously wasnt trying. A 2006 LBZ runs the quarter in 15.29, and a 2006 LLY runs it 15.8X. Show me a stock Powerstroke that will even come close to that (stock) and ill go jump off a bridge.

Take a duramax and spend some money on mods and beat a stoke powerstroke and then you are the king of all trucks as you all say, Let a psd owner spend some money and see what happens.

We did see what happends... Gene Wewald and NDLP both spent money on their trucks. Which truck runs the quarter at 11.07 and which one runs it at 11.5....?

.

How many Duramax trucks did GM have to buy back in the last 3 years?............................................ .................................................. .......................................
.......................................(Insert the sound of crickets here)..............

Well how many did they have? If you got some good numbers please post them cause I'd be interested in seeing them. I'd also be interested to see how many 6.0's are out in the market place compared to both the 5.9 and 6.6.

Gene's handle is Weweld btw. I don't know exactly how much he's got in the stroked lightening but I'd say that truck is flat out impressive especially running stock headgaskets and stock head bolts. Also the 11.55 run was with some pretty small slicks so there's a ton more left in the truck. Gene is going to help me install some injectors in my truck here in the next couple weeks and I'll get all the info you fellas need! :cool2:

Well I cant quote exact numbers but if you google "Duramax buybacks" you get a bunch of pages of stuff not relative to the question as oposed to searching for "ford 6.0 buybacks" and you get many many pages of information on Ford loosing there a$$ on the 6.0 superpooper.

I'm not saying there isn't any. As a matter of fact I know Ford bought back 500 out of the box which is not cheap. I truly believe the Ford/IH team has most of the issues worked out.

http://www.deere.com/servlet/com.deere.u90785.productcatalog.view.servlets.Prod CatProduct?tM=FR&pNbr=8230%20RW

IFS weak???
I am personally offended, show me any GM, Oshkosh, John Deere, IFS system that has failed? Last time I checked there are none.
If my link worked it should be a picture of a 250 hp JD 8230 using a front IFS setup, oh yes the tractor weighs in around 25,000 lbs. Now the weight split is around 45/55 (F/R) add balast to the front and you could have well over 15,000lbs on that weak IFS setup...
As for the 6.0 being the best, yes in some ways, it is the best example of crappy engineering, and they have proved that sometimes you can polish a turd. It is a textbook example (It really is) of limited R&R. Had the ford boys had more time it could have been an awesome engine. However the Dmax and Cummins were kicking its butt, so they released it way before it should have been.
Now another comment that has really driven me crazy is the one about the allison transmission, being mostly GM parts. I personally know the boys that made that fine piece of equipment, and I know for a fact where their paychecks come from. Yes, most of it was GM inspired, but all the work was done by allison. Anyways what would be so bad about a GM transmission, in my book they have a pretty good record. The only turds I know of are early 700R4's and a few 4L60E's.
Now there is nothing wrong with being brand loyal, it just bothers me when people are mis-informed.

Talk about misinformation! How are you going to compare the IFS in your pickup to that of a tractor? Try comparing the IFS in your pickup to the SFA in my pickup. As far as the 6.0 goes, they are always going to get the short end of the stick which is a shame! But like I've said, I seen them in some pretty harsh conditions and they've held up. As a matter of fact there's an article in automotive weekly I believe about how the 6.0 was praised for it's reliability in Iraq. I'll see if I can dig it up for you all! :cool:

New version gets kind words from Iraq


Richard Truett
AN / December 12, 2005

New versions of Ford Motor Co.'s 6.0-liter Power Stroke diesel engine have proven reliable - even under the duress of roadside bombs and machine-gun fire.

In Iraq, Ford diesel-powered Super Duty pickups and Excursion SUVs often are used as escort vehicles for military and civilian convoys. Several times this year, Ford has received e-mails from Louis Powell, an employee of Falcon Security Co.


Here's the article, I do have some pretty good pics of me and some 6.0's over in Iraq if you all want to see them let me know! :cool: :cool2:

ALLISON BEING MOSTLY GM PARTS!!?? Durymcgee, I have also heard Ford boys say this..and it makes me mad...


To everyone who thinks the LCT-1000 is just a crappy GM built tranny:

I have PERSONALLY taken apart/rebuilt an Allison LCT-1000 (pictures availble if you dont beleive me) and I can tell you there is not ONE SOLITARY piece on that transmission that says Chevy, GM, GMC or anything else. EVERYTHING says either Allison or has the Allison roundal/symbol thing. You cannot tell me "its just a GM trans with the Allison name". It is a true Allison thru and thru. And its also physically a beast. Every hard part in that transmission is huge and strong. The input shaft is as big as my arm. The P1 planetary gearset is more than 8 inches in diameter. It certainly looks a lot bigger than a TorqShift too...

--Ben

Here are the pics!

Yes I agree that the IFS setup in a tractor differs greatly from that of a pickup, however the IFS of a GM truck was being compared to a car's setup. So my point has just been proven, IFS is not weak, in fact if done correctly it can be much, much stronger than a solid axle, and not only stronger but much nicer to park your rear in. Now I do a fair share of 4 wheeling and I would never put IFS in my rig, I would not do this simply because of the cost, designing and difficulty in fabrication.
If you would really like to get some great info on IFS setups and Solid Axles and many other types of suspensions read my bible "Fundamentals of Vehicle Dynamics" by Thomas D. Gillespie, it is available on the Society of Automotive Engineers website.

From your service in the military you should be aware of the new trucks the nations military are getting, they use IFS...
I know this was originally about the 6.0 being a POS, but I had to give my .02 on IFS.
Thats great you got a good 6.0, there are definatly some out there, I have been on the design team of many failures, I am glad to see that the 6.0 team pulled it together, I know they have learned from there mistakes, and I am sure the next Diesel to come out of Fords factory will be something special.

I haven't seen the new trucks with IFS. The 7 ton was by far the coolest rig I got to drive! 7 speed push button auto was very cool! :cool:

New version gets kind words from Iraq


Richard Truett
AN / December 12, 2005

New versions of Ford Motor Co.'s 6.0-liter Power Stroke diesel engine have proven reliable - even under the duress of roadside bombs and machine-gun fire.

In Iraq, Ford diesel-powered Super Duty pickups and Excursion SUVs often are used as escort vehicles for military and civilian convoys. Several times this year, Ford has received e-mails from Louis Powell, an employee of Falcon Security Co.


Here's the article, I do have some pretty good pics of me and some 6.0's over in Iraq if you all want to see them let me know! :cool: :cool2:

:cool2: :grd:

I guess we're forgetting who makes all the Hummers and what kind of front suspension they have...

Well I did see a military H1 on the side of the road over there with a broken rear axle. How that happened is beyond me because it was on paved road! :eek:

The reason the Hummers are getting a bad rap in Iraq is because they are overloading the crap out of them, mostly with the body armor they are having to hang off of them, mix that with the temps and crazy ass guys trying to kill you something is sure to go wrong, not only that but some of the trucks they are running are really old. The hummer was designed to be a transport, not a battle vehicle. I am pretty sure that the fords are only being used as transports, right, I may be wrong.
As for a hummer with a broken axle... They use portal hubs, which is another gear reduction, to break that axle you have to be under lots of stress, or insane power. I dont think the 6.5 NA motor is capable of "insane power"

Well I did see a military H1 on the side of the road over there with a broken rear axle. How that happened is beyond me because it was on paved road! :eek:

good reply,

ask and you shall recieve:lol:

I know this is completely off topic, but do the h1's they use in iraq have the duramax in them?

No.

6.2's and 6.5's IIRC. The new HI Alpha has the Dmax/Allison.

No, I'm pretty sure it's the 6.2 or 6.5. Rumor has it though the H1 is supposed to get the dmax. Now if the military gets it will be a different story.

I think the military's contract is for the h1 through 08'? THey are keeping the 6.5 in military versions, only the h1 alpha (DMAX ALLISON) civilian version is available to us, if you have $120K...

Rumor has it though the H1 is supposed to get the dmax.

It already has the Dmax. The civilian H1 Alpha... look on ebay

Wow..........its like somebody flushed the toilet and the Furd guys left...................................

Wow..........its like somebody flushed the toilet and the Furd guys left...................................
Now that's not nice, FUNNY:lol: but not nice:grd: .

I've never seen an amulance, a company truck, a fire truck, or anytype of vehicle that needs a reliable source of power use a duramax. They are pieces of junk to the max. And I have never seen a hotshotter use one either because I heard they start losing power at 100k. I have pulled hitch to hitch with them and pulled them till they locked up their brakes and started yelling at me, and I have raced the newest ones with my dad's new 6.0 and beat them light to light all day long and from a stand still. (my friend has an '06 duramax) Take a duramax and spend some money on mods and beat a stoke powerstroke and then you are the king of all trucks as you all say, Let a psd owner spend some money and see what happens........................................... ............................
.................................................: lol: They'll need more $ !!

The Dmax/Allison combo costs too much money to be cost effective for the application you speak of.

The Allison transmission is and has been used in biggest trucks ever built. Allisons are used in practically every automatic fire engine ever built with few problems. None where I work. That's 20-30 tons to the floor all the time. We've blown a few Detroits, but never touched the tranny.

Seriously, EVERY 6.0 owner I talk to except one, has a truck that pukes, has a clogged EGR, loses coolant, and/or has blown the headgaskets.


You pretty much summed up every problem I've currently got.:( Hopefully, I will be rid of this POS soon.


Also, when I bougt my truck new in early 04 and friend of mine bought a new duramax. We both race and pull the same size trailer and the same type of car. On the way to the next race (5 hour pull) My wife ask why I was going so slow. I told her it wasn't me that I simply could not keep up with my friends duramax. I made a direct effort to try and catch him without him even knowing it. Every time we stopped for fuel I would try to keep pace with him taking off and getting to cruising speed. Every time he would walk off and leave me. He would make it to the top of the on ramp before I could get half way up it. What was even worse was he didn't even know that I was trying to keep up. I bought the truck thinking that at the time it was the fastest, best towing truck available. When I got back to town I took it back to the dealer and told them that I couldn't keep up with the duramax while towing that something must be wrong with my truck. They reflashed my computer and said that they had never heard of the 6.0 not being able to keep up with a duramax. Now at only 47,000 miles I've had the tranny rebuilt, EGR valve replaced, EGR sensor, coolant problem it pukes everytime I tow with it and getting worse, cruise control sticks and accellerates when trying to disengage, heat does not work when truck is sitting and just ideling then it will work while the truck is moving, roof membrane in the cab broke and had to be rewelded, brake rotors changed twice and turned 3 times in 47k, coolant smell coming through my air vents, coolant pouring down the side of the engine after towing a 3500 lb. trailer this weekend.

This truck has been weak from the start.:help:

You pretty much summed up every problem I've currently got.:( Hopefully, I will be rid of this POS soon.


Also, when I bougt my truck new in early 04 and friend of mine bought a new duramax. We both race and pull the same size trailer and the same type of car. On the way to the next race (5 hour pull) My wife ask why I was going so slow. I told her it wasn't me that I simply could not keep up with my friends duramax. I made a direct effort to try and catch him without him even knowing it. Every time we stopped for fuel I would try to keep pace with him taking off and getting to cruising speed. Every time he would walk off and leave me. He would make it to the top of the on ramp before I could get half way up it. What was even worse was he didn't even know that I was trying to keep up. I bought the truck thinking that at the time it was the fastest, best towing truck available. When I got back to town I took it back to the dealer and told them that I couldn't keep up with the duramax while towing that something must be wrong with my truck. They reflashed my computer and said that they had never heard of the 6.0 not being able to keep up with a duramax. Now at only 47,000 miles I've had the tranny rebuilt, EGR valve replaced, EGR sensor, coolant problem it pukes everytime I tow with it and getting worse, cruise control sticks and accellerates when trying to disengage, heat does not work when truck is sitting and just ideling then it will work while the truck is moving, roof membrane in the cab broke and had to be rewelded, brake rotors changed twice and turned 3 times in 47k, coolant smell coming through my air vents, coolant pouring down the side of the engine after towing a 3500 lb. trailer this weekend.

This truck has been weak from the start.:help:


Time for a dmax!

We are going to see a Viper inside a Duramax?Good deal.

at least gm extended their warrranty what did ford do for their customers:think:

Exactly! I will never buy another Ford product...not because of the product itself, but because of their custoner service. They treat their customers like @$$. I *was* pretty loyal to Ford for a while, but thoseproblems are behind me now, since I will never see another one in *my* driveway...at least not registered in my name.

You pretty much summed up every problem I've currently got.:( Hopefully, I will be rid of this POS soon.


Also, when I bougt my truck new in early 04 and friend of mine bought a new duramax. We both race and pull the same size trailer and the same type of car. On the way to the next race (5 hour pull) My wife ask why I was going so slow. I told her it wasn't me that I simply could not keep up with my friends duramax. I made a direct effort to try and catch him without him even knowing it. Every time we stopped for fuel I would try to keep pace with him taking off and getting to cruising speed. Every time he would walk off and leave me. He would make it to the top of the on ramp before I could get half way up it. What was even worse was he didn't even know that I was trying to keep up. I bought the truck thinking that at the time it was the fastest, best towing truck available. When I got back to town I took it back to the dealer and told them that I couldn't keep up with the duramax while towing that something must be wrong with my truck. They reflashed my computer and said that they had never heard of the 6.0 not being able to keep up with a duramax. Now at only 47,000 miles I've had the tranny rebuilt, EGR valve replaced, EGR sensor, coolant problem it pukes everytime I tow with it and getting worse, cruise control sticks and accellerates when trying to disengage, heat does not work when truck is sitting and just ideling then it will work while the truck is moving, roof membrane in the cab broke and had to be rewelded, brake rotors changed twice and turned 3 times in 47k, coolant smell coming through my air vents, coolant pouring down the side of the engine after towing a 3500 lb. trailer this weekend.

This truck has been weak from the start.:help:
Sounds like you need to get that edge off of that Ford asap. That's like feeding antifreeze to a dog. Weak from the start? Are you sure it is a ford that you own?

Sounds like you need to get that edge off of that Ford asap. That's like feeding antifreeze to a dog. Weak from the start? Are you sure it is a ford that you own?You ford guys oughta give him props,at least his 6.Oh no is still running.:nutkick:

Sounds like you need to get that edge off of that Ford asap. That's like feeding antifreeze to a dog. Weak from the start? Are you sure it is a ford that you own?


Unfortunately it is off. I had plenty of the issues before and now after. This is my 4th Ford by the way. I also have an 03 that is doing most of the same things I took it to the shop today for the latest recall and found that I have 2 bad injectors.:mad: The dealer also wouldn't give me a rental car their service sucks!

Unfortunately it is off. I had plenty of the issues before and now after. This is my 4th Ford by the way. I also have an 03 that is doing most of the same things I took it to the shop today for the latest recall and found that I have 2 bad injectors.:mad: The dealer also wouldn't give me a rental car their service sucks!

My 03 is a company truck with no mods what so ever. I bought it new and it was in the shop the first week with sensor, computer, injector, and turbo problems. It never has run right.

i have a bone stock 6.0 ford truck at work, i haul any were from 3,500lbs to 15,000 lbs. no matter how hard i drive i have never had problems. i out run duramaxs up steep hills that arent pulling nearly as much weight as me. i think the 6.0 is the best diesel ford has come out with.:ro)

Peterson's 4-Wheel & Off-Road, May 2006 issue: Page 20 Reader's Rides: 03 F-350 6.0Superduty owner "Found a Toyota in a mud hole, pulled him out, then I went through it and blew a head, then the Toyota helped pull me out" . Same issue, page 30 under Drivelines column is an article titled: Problems Plague Power Stroke. In a nut shell it talks about big problems with 03-04 and the newer ones being better "But issues persist, and there are still thousands of older Powerstroke-equipped trucks on the road " that are not reliable and may never be". 60 lawsuits, 12,000 consumer complaints, 77 TSBs, etc. Sounds like fun. No?:p:

i have a bone stock 6.0 ford truck at work, i haul any were from 3,500lbs to 15,000 lbs. no matter how hard i drive i have never had problems. i out run duramaxs up steep hills that arent pulling nearly as much weight as me. i think the 6.0 is the best diesel ford has come out with.:ro):funnypostSure pal.Video games dont count!You had better quit smokin' crack.It makes you stupid.:eek:

:funnypostSure pal.Video games dont count!You had better quit smokin' crack.It makes you stupid.:eek:



I agree!!! No way he out pulls duramax's up hills I've been there and tried that. I lost and the chevy didn't even know I was trying to beat him.:(