I was reading my last issue of OnStar magazine, and found an interesting article on a new test program GM is implementing on some vehicles equipped with OnStar. Apparently, they are voluntarily monitoring the mileage and maintenance requirements of select vehicles, and sending out reminders to owners when they should make their next scheduled maintenance visit. They can also pull diagnostics codes and notify you to visit your dealership for necessary repairs. The method used to select vehicles in this "test" program is not made clear, and apparently there is no option of opting in or out of it either. The only certain way of not being a part of this program is if you purchase a vehicle without OnStar, or by somehow disabling it on your vehicle if you currently have it installed. Note that this program is not necessarily a BAD thing, but it can eventually be used as a tool for GM to find ways of making us (especially DIYers) liable for warranty repairs. Also, if the cellular connection is being used to transfer performance data to GM when we are unaware, I am certain that there is nothing stopping them, or anyone for that matter, of enabling the in-cab microphone without our knowledge or consent.

Great! Junk mail/spam/big brother all rolled up into one package.

I would be funny if they "tuned in" to monitor my truck during a 1/4 mile pass, too bad I don't have On Star.

Laughing at Mike.......How can they legally(SP?) do that? Just wondering, if you have onstar but never sign up for it (that what my dad did) how can they track it?

I have On-Star in my '04. The On-Star package came with a free 1 year of the their "Safe and Sound" service. Part of the Safe and Sound service is the vehicle-tracking feature, which uses the On-Star's GPS capabilities to track the vehicle if it were stolen. If you have Safe and Sound, at least your location is probably being monitored by On-Star.


I'm certain that any attempt by GM, or GM's On-Star subsidiary, to secretly "monitor" in-cab conversations would be unlawful. Since On-Star is clearly capable of retrieving problem codes, On-Star could be used as a tool by GM to determine if someone were running a box, which altered the engine management systems, so warranty issues could be a problem.

You can easily disable Onstar by removing it's fuses if you like.





It's not paranoia if ther'e really after youhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">...If you have Safe and Sound, at least your location is probably being monitored by On-Star. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></span>


I seriously doubt that. Monitoring location would require a constant cell phone connection. There is no way the cellular providers or OnStar could handle such large amounts of data - not to mention the airtime costs. The only time they would monitor your location is if you made a call to OnStar or you reported your vehicle as stolen and they opened up a line to the vehicle to retrieve it's location. Other than that, they don't have the resources to constantly monitor your location.

The point here is performance monitoring in terms of snapshots at specified time intervals, not continuous monitoring, not location monitoring. By performance I'm referring to mileage, %oil life, and other variables stored in the vehicle computer.


BTW, location monitoring is possible. I'm sure a little software upgrade beamed from GM will allow this if uncle sam insists. Is it legal? No. Possible? Yes. If an OnStar advisor can tell YOU where you are when you're lost, then they can surely tell someone else, without enabling the "user interface" end of the vehicle's integrated phone.

I agree it's possible. OnStar can send a signal to unlock your car doors, no reason they cannot initiate ODBII data transfer. I'm glad I don't have it on my 01, but my wife's 2500 Suburban does...yikes! do you think they can get my truck info from being parked close to the Suburban? Probably can, but can they make a good tire & wheel combo....Noooooo!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif


JP

On_Star probably purchases huge blocks of airtime from Verizon and the others at a cut rate then charge us 30 to 60 cents per minute. The airtime costs for On-Star to monitor GM vehicles with On_Star (see first post) are probably negligible. Maybe a little "legal" monitoring will help GM to build a better product http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif .

A64pilot, which fuse is for Onstar? I looked at the inside of the fuse panel, but did not see any clear indication of an Onstar fuse. I removed the antenna a long time ago, as it interfered with my cover. At least this should decrease Big Brothers reception.





thanks!

If you do not think that your insurance Co. will not buy the info on your driving habits think again. It only breaks the law if you are caught ask any law breaker .Most cars and trucks already have a sys on board your car air bag computer records a time frame which maybe 45 seconds the police plug in to the computer to see if you were speeding or hit your brakes it gives them more info than you think.

JeepHauler,


There is a fuse under the hood called INFO, in the main box, pull it and your worries are over. You can also pull a couple from under the dash as stated in the manual and disconnect other possible monitoring devices. Just FYI.

I would think this would fall under invasion of privacy and I would be surprised of they could collect any info from your truck without your consent ... especially eves dropping via the cell phone. I seem to recall a recent article that discussed this same topic in that the courts would not allow it due to privacy issues. Could be wrong.

Dave1250 -


I read about this before. It’s like a "flight recorder" for a motor vehicle. I understand that '04 is the year that all vehicles sold in the US must have this function.


I would think that a court order would be necessary to retrieve the contents of the non volatile memory in your vehicle's computer if a court needed to know your speed, engine RPM or ABS function.

It's called "Pinging" you don't need a constant connection, just "ping" every 10 minutes or 30 minutes whatever timing you prefer. Location is recorded for payback later if needed. Gives a general picture of what area your vehicle was in and time, direction etc. You can then draw a line between "pings" and end up with a lot of info, direction, speed etc.


If needed (requested by law enforcement or?) constant monitoring is very viable and doable. Like a wiretap, you don't have to be notified it's in place, just get a judge to go along, just ask Scott Petterson, they monitored his every move for months via GPS device planted on his truck.


Big Brother is watching!

I didn't kill my wife like Peterson did.


I have resubscribed Onstar.....Like it, am not afraid as I do not break the law and like the discount it gives me on my insurance. 30% because of the vehicle theft locator. The cell phone works better in remote area's.........all the new vehicle have "flight recording" I work in the insurance industry and it can be obtained.....that includes all makes.


Paranoia makes sense if you have something to hide. If you are afraid pull the fuse........

Guess what folks, it's all possible and is happening! FoMoCo has a similar system that monitors seating positions, seatbelts, airbag deployment, speed, vehicle position(is it on it's wheels, on it's side, on the roof, if it rolled, how many times, etc.) System has been tested in a small local PD. If you're involved in an accident, the system notifies the monitoring sevice, which in turn notifies the nearest 911 call center to the vehicles location. Above mentioned data is relayed also so the PD and FD that are responding have an idea of what they're rolling on. How far they will go in using the data remains to be seen. I work for a LARGE metropolitan FD and we tested a GPS system on our EMS units. WHen the bean counters realized all the data that could be recorded, we suddnely ran out of money to fund the system. Mighta had somethingf to do w/ ambulances running 90MPH to the ER w/ a hangnail. L8R


PS - I forgot, if the system detects


data that indicates a crash situation, the operator opens a mic in the vehicle and asks if you need assistance. Is this monitoring w/o consent?!Edited by: FILO

jeephauler I not sure of the fuse, but I believe you can read the installation instructions for the predator programmer and it will tell you how to disable onstar. For some reason onstar needs to be disabled when you reprogram the computer?

To disable OnStar, drop the glove box door and pull the two antenna connectors (GPS and cell phone) from the bottom of the OnStar box. You'll have confirmation that the GPS is offline if the mirror LED is red. And if you push the white button it should tell you that the cell phone is off line. This applies to 2003 models. Don't know if other years are different.

If I were a thief, and was going to steal a vehicle with On-Star. I would drive it around the corner out of site, and disconect the fuse. Once that is done, they can not track you nor can they disable the vehicle.


As for monitoring vehicles with on-star to inform the owner of maintanance. They may be able to inform you that you have not reset the oil service monitor, but there is no monitoring at the oil drain plug ot oil filter. So there is not way they would know if the oil needs changed. Sometimes I go weeks before I get around to resetting that stupid monitor, and I never go by that thing.


On a lighter note:


Maybe GM is in on a Goverment plan to go to Marshall Law, then they won't need any Court system to monitor you. They will do what they want, when they want, and how they want.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif I believe XM radio is part of the planhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Big Brother Watching ??? I've heard people speak of the fear of being monitered by "Big Brother". Kind of scarey....Then again...I was always taught that I was responsible for my own actions. If I want a 600 hp truck, then I will be responsible for the damage caused by my alterations. If I don't do the required maintenance, then I should pay the consequences. If I am driving 100 mph just before a crash, there shouldn't just be my word against the victims at the wreck. If I drive 100 mph and am not involved in an accident, should I get off with no penalty.?..I still endangered your life as I weaved through the traffic to pass all you dam law abiding slowpokes.


Some citys have cameras monitering the sidewalks downtown, and traffic cameras at intersections. These places are REALLY safer now. I got a "Red Light Camera" ticket 3 years ago. As I approached the intersection, the light was GREEN. It then FLASHED yellow/RED. Clearly a malfunction, My passenger(employee) said "DAMM did you see that!!!", before I could. Went to arbitration...They just wanted my money...I was P.O'ed. Cost me $ 50.00. After I thought about it, It was worth the $ 50.00 for the safer intersections ( 5 or 6 cars would form a tight line behind the last car that went through an intersection with a GREEN light..VERY AGGRESSIVE, and dangerous driving. This problem is GONE , less accidents, less tension)


Problem : Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.


If you've seen the TV show "los Vagas"...High Teck monitering of everyones activity. It makes EVERYONE safer and EVERYONE RESPONSIBLE for their own actions. I'm ALL in favor of that.Edited by: Duallyvette

There is no law which provides for privacy in this country that I am aware of. Nice huh?


Tim

RING... RING...


"This is OnStar. It has been 350 miles since you last stopped at an establishment with a rest room. You should stop and relieve yourself."


"Thanks!"


10 min later.


RING... RING...


"This is OnStar. NOW GO BACK AND WASH YOUR HANDS!!!"

I have resubscribed Onstar..... like the discount it gives me on my insurance. 30% because of the vehicle theft locator.


What insurance do you have? My agent said they didn't give a discount for OnStar. I think they consider the system to be too easy to disable. It seems like you could add a hidden back-up battery w/o too much effort. It only needs to run for enough time for you to realize the car is stolen and contact OnStar.Edited by: tundracamper