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i just got my jimmy back from being serviced...the facility is a BIG gmc maintenance shop where the serive a LOT of different diesel engines...


my tech/mech advised me to use a fuel additive called Howes Lubricator...i know many posters here use fuel additives, but i don't recall seeing this product listed...


it states i has none of the following: solvents, soy additives, alcohol, sulfur or ash...it is a winter/summer additive...just use different amts based on fuel make up...


if anyone uses it and likes it, or has used it and DOESN'T like it, OR has an opinion as to the advisability of using it, please post a reply.


if there are better additives i shud be using, plz let me know that also...


thanks.....


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Stanadyne shows an independent test on their website performed by Southwest Research Institute that includes this additive; In spite of the name - Howe's lubricator provides very little lubrication improvement on an HFRR test (in this case SAE J2265). Based on this - I wouldn't consider using it in a duramax.

Again, the only additives that I have seen that perform suitably on an accepted HFRR lubricity test are Shell Rotella DFA and Stanadyne Performance Formula (and lubricity formula - same thing as PF less cetane and cold weather components).

There are those on this site who believe that an emulsifying additive is the way to go - this is one that disperses water and sends it through your injectors at a hopefully non-damaging rate. And there are those who believe in a demulsifier - which makes water form into droplets so that they will, hopefully, be captured by the water trap integrated into your fuel filter.

The stanadyne is a pure demulsifier; the rotella DFA actually disperses minute amounts of water and sheds larger amounts of water (so when amount of water in fuel becomes potentially damaging, it tries to aim it at the water trap).

Even though Rotella DFA is listed as a demulsifier, the fact that it disperses small amounts of water (at a molecular level) - should make it acceptable to the emulsifying side of the house. Maybe it's a demulsifier that even George Morrison could love (or at least tolerate!).

By the way, GM and Bosch both say to avoid emulsifying additives... Howe's is a demulsifier.

jeff

The military uses primrose. It was developed for them. I use it and my last filter change showed no rust and a very clean filter after many miles.

I checked out the Stanadyne site. Nice to see some real testing. Only problem is Howes Lubricator was not tested. It was their Diesel Treat product that was tested. I also did not recognize several of the other additives as those commonly used by P/U owners on this board. The Power Service products were not the common ones either. I could be wrong since I am at work and can't check the stuff in my garage. I too am looking for good additives and any input would be appreciated.

I checked out the Stanadyne site. Nice to see some real testing. Only problem is Howes Lubricator was not tested. It was their Diesel Treat product that was tested. I also did not recognize several of the other additives as those commonly used by P/U owners on this board. The Power Service products were not the common ones either. I could be wrong since I am at work and can't check the stuff in my garage. I too am looking for good additives and any input would be appreciated.





Actually, I thought the same thing you did concerning the Howes "Diesel Treat" and the stanadyne test. - then I looked at howes website to see what products they made and how they differed - the brand name is "Howes Lubricator" and the product name is "Diesel Treat". So, Howes lubricator is tested - but they do make two products. The only one that I have seen around here in truck stops is "diesel treat"...


The other nice thing about the stanadyne test was that it was done by an independent lab - southwest research institute.


jeff


Edited by: dmax lover

Problemchild, stating that the military uses primrose is far from a glowing endorsement. Remember, these are the folks which pay $50 for toilet seats and $150 for pliers.

I am using what GM recommends. Stanadyne Performance formula. It works very well for me. Easy starts nicer idle, less smoke. It seems like the filter traps more water with it. Iam happy with it and will stay with it.


However there are many users who use other brands and are happy with the brand they are using.


It's a tough choice to make.

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jeff...


ty for the input...that's ONE of the reasons i come to this site...


i've not used the howes, and it wasn't expensive...


where can i get the stanadyne formula?...isn't that what most are recommending i use?





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I would also like to know where to get Stanadyne. It doesn't seem to be available at any of the auto parts stores around here.

http://www.dieselpage.com/add1.htm

I would also like to know where to get Stanadyne. It doesn't seem to be available at any of the auto parts stores around here.









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Hey Thanks! Right down the road. (You can tell I haven't lived here very long. Just moved her last June. I need to get out more.)

For convenience, I order my stanadyne from Oregon Fuel injection - they are only 100 miles from my home so shipping charges are minimal - their price isn't the lowest but I make it up on shipping and ship time; Order it one day, on my doorstep the next; I would recommend them for anyone living in West/Northwest U.S. -&gt; I also got my Racor Fuel Kit (the one made by racor) from them - great service, quick shipment; Also - With Oregon having one of the highest unemployment rates in the nation - I always try to buy local first... Their website url is www.oregonfuelinjection.com (http://www.oregonfuelinjection.com)





I also ordered a case of Stanadyne lubricity formula from www.usdieselparts.com (http://www.usdieselparts.com) (oregon fuel injection doesn't stock lubricity formula).


jeff


Edited by: dmax lover

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jeff...


what is lubricity?...is it different than the stanadyne everyone here talks about?...shud i use both?


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Try this link:


http://http://www.stanadyne.com/dsg/dsg_dfa.asp


It will have the info you're looking for. I've been lurking on this forum for a few months and have found a whole lot of good info here.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

The military use of Primrose came about years ago as a result of shipping equipment overseas. The fuel/engines after having been stationary for several weeks would immediately be damaged on startup due to free water settle. The Primrose fuel additive completely eliminated the problem thus the common sense, real solution..
This is one purchase that is beyond the $200 toilet seat and makes sense..
George Morrison

Another good source for Stanadyne products is Reliable Industries (http://www.reliableindustries.com/inv/index_stan.htm) (have to call for prices - no online ordering)


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

I get my Stanadyne from the local tractor (Case/IH) dealer, cost is $5.03 a bottle.

Because of the military's tendancy to find merit depending on which contractor is in whose Congressional District I tend to agree with Jeephauler that their endorsement lends only modest support for Primrose. But, George's endorsement is a wholely different matter. That I take seriously and have been happily using Primrose for the last couple of months. I got my first couple of bottles from Nick, but I'm expecting my first case from George any day now.

TC

How do the Power Services product stand up to Stanadyne? Is it comparable? Does GM ok the use of the Power Services products?

No MAINEMAX, GM doesn't approve the use of Power Service fuel additives. GM doesn't approve the use of Primrose additives. However, I use Primrose 405 and have had excellent results to this point. My truck runs great with 405. I'm going to continue using 405--change filters often--use Filtermags--hope for the best--run the s$$t out of this big red beast and enjoy the best truck I've ever owned! JMHO!!!---Phil

Another happy Primrose 405 user. After 18000 miles and two filter changes (two OEM and one CAT) I have Zero evidence of rust or water. Thanks GeorgeEdited by: cricket

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jeff...
what is lubricity?...is it different than the stanadyne everyone here talks about?...shud i use both?
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Lubricity seems to be a new adjective to describe the ability to lubricate (probably distinct from "Oiliness", which doesn't sound techie enough for such an expensive engine, just too 19th century) and we worry about it in diesel fuel because of potential internal wear to things like fuel pumps, injector pumps and even the injectors themselves. Supposedly #1 fuel oil lacks "oiliness" and has a lower cetane number (doesn't burn as hot) as #2, but we use it to avoid gelling in winter time. The additives that we rave about are supposed to put some of those qualities back into #1 fuel. In reality we are probably buying seasonal blends with adequate additives already in them, but we like to feed our minds a little as well. I think the old timers who dumped in a quart of trannie oil every 90 gallons might have been onto something in this regard. I've never understood why 2-stroke oil wouldn't do the job, the synthetic stuff burns with NO ash these days and fouled plugs are a thing of the past. Hey, anyone running 2-stroke oil (dino or synth) at about 500:1 ? Let me know how it works out.

Just got my 2nd shipment of 6 bottles of Primrose. It and my Nictane CAT give me an added degree of peace of mind. Makes sense to get the water out in microscopic increments rather then allowing it to collect and spawn rust and bio growths.

Hey, anyone running 2-stroke oil (dino or synth) at about 500:1 ? Let me know how it works out.

[/QUOTE]


My brother used 2 cycle oil in his 93 Chev 6.5. Never had any motor trouble in the 250,000 miles he drove it. But I still wouldn't use it in the Dmax. The high pressure injection system the Dmax uses is not the same as the older motors. I use Stanadyne Performance.

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jeff...



what is lubricity?...is it different than the stanadyne everyone here talks about?...shud i use both?



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Lubricity seems to be a new adjective to describe the ability to lubricate (probably distinct from "Oiliness", which doesn't sound techie enough for such an expensive engine, just too 19th century) and we worry about it in diesel fuel because of potential internal wear to things like fuel pumps, injector pumps and even the injectors themselves. Supposedly #1 fuel oil lacks "oiliness" and has a lower cetane number (doesn't burn as hot) as #2, but we use it to avoid gelling in winter time. The additives that we rave about are supposed to put some of those qualities back into #1 fuel. In reality we are probably buying seasonal blends with adequate additives already in them, but we like to feed our minds a little as well. I think the old timers who dumped in a quart of trannie oil every 90 gallons might have been onto something in this regard. I've never understood why 2-stroke oil wouldn't do the job, the synthetic stuff burns with NO ash these days and fouled plugs are a thing of the past. Hey, anyone running 2-stroke oil (dino or synth) at about 500:1 ? Let me know how it works out.







Our trucks require a higher level of lubricity than what was required in the past. There is currently no enforced standard when it comes to diesel fuel lubricity in the U.S. and there won't be standards in place and enforced until 2006. This is outlined in a presentation from Bosch to CARB that has been referred to here in the recent past. Your comments about #1 versus #2 etc above are not correct when it comes to the new HFIE in the dmax. Bosch sampled fuels across the united states in the summer of 2002 (no winter blends - just diesel #2), and 80% did not meet MINIMUM lubricity standards that they have shown are needed by the fuel injection system used in the DMAX. To get a"good level of protection" - the picture would be even worse...


jeff


Edited by: dmax lover

Here is the test the military used to test Primrose......

test (http://www.desc.dla.mil/DCM/Files/25524e.pdf)Edited by: problemchild

Here is the test the military used to test Primrose......

test (http://www.desc.dla.mil/DCM/Files/25524e.pdf)

As far as I can tell - there is one component in one of primrose's additives (the corrosion inhibitor) that meets a mil-std. From the way I read it, this component met the mil-std prior to being added to the primrose. I doubt that the above referenced test was not used to test primrose as a whole.

Irregardless, primrose has not been shown to meet or exceed standards EN590 or SAE J2265 (both HFRR tests). Again, the only additives that I am aware of that have been shown to meet either of these specifications are Stanadyne and Shell Rotella DFA.

It has also not been shown that primrose additives can meet this spec while emulsifying water in the process (the water may and probably does degrade the lubricity by washing away the lubricating layer). In other words, if you choose to use an emulsifier and have "high humidity" in your fuel - it may be impossible to meet the lubricity spec required by Bosch for fuel system longevity in HFIE systems.


jeff

Edited by: dmax lover

The HFRR test results for Primrose should be available shortly and will post.
Regarding Primrose lubricating 'surround' of a water molecule; this provides much more lubricity than clumped pure water.
Regarding MIL-Spec. In recent years the military has stopped Mil-Spec testing and approvals. We provide many lubricants to the military/aviation that are simply named items. The wheel bearing grase specified for the C-5A and F-16 is Mobilgrease Aviation SHC 100; this grease does not have a mil-spec number or on the QPL listing. Mil-Specs are still used for items which are current but many of purchased products are simply purchased by name, such as Primrose.
George Morrison

The HFRR test results for Primrose should be available shortly and will post.
Regarding Primrose lubricating 'surround' of a water molecule; this provides much more lubricity than clumped pure water.
Regarding MIL-Spec. In recent years the military has stopped Mil-Spec testing and approvals. We provide many lubricants to the military/aviation that are simply named items. The wheel bearing grase specified for the C-5A and F-16 is Mobilgrease Aviation SHC 100; this grease does not have a mil-spec number or on the QPL listing. Mil-Specs are still used for items which are current but many of purchased products are simply purchased by name, such as Primrose.
George Morrison

George,

There still HAS to be documented requirements/specifications on file for procurement doesn't there?

re: "There still HAS to be documented requirements/specifications on file for procurement doesn't there?"
Yes, but it is now very difficult to source just what branch is purchasing what and for what purpose. The simplicity of Mil-Spec database searches is no more.
So as to who is using Primrose or Mobilith SHC 100, as example, for what purpose, nearly impossible; without the previous "approval" system that was in place for so many years no longer exists.
George Morrison

I've use stanadyne fuel additive since i bought truck in november o3 seems to work fine for me and gm indorses it.Quick starts and idle's great,but everyone has their own money to spend and perference.For the price and performance I pefer stanadyne.


ALSO SPENT 9YEARS 28 DAYS 7 HOURS AND SOME ODD SECONDS IN THE US ARMY WORKING ON M-1 TANKS.PLEASE UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES BUY A PRODUCT JUST BECAUSE THE MILITARY USES IT!!!!!!!STATE OF ART PRODUCTS........NOT

Slick


Recon the only reason the military buys it is because it cost so much, what the hell if they will give $150.00 for pliers they probaly bought the primrose cause it's the most expensive.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

I am having difficulty sourcing the previously mentioned Stanadyne and Shell HFRR CARB fuel test results. Could someone please post the sites/sources where this information is available?
Thank you,
George Morrison

YEAH GENO BUT THOSE WERE THE BEST PAIR OF PLIERS I EVER HAD THE HONOR OF USING LOL

Regarding the previous post:
"probaly bought the primrose cause it's the most expensive"
Primrose is actually one of the most cost effective fuel additives on the market with a treat rate of one ounce to 15 gallons, providing 5 cetane number boost, corrosion prevention, microbial bacteriastat, system cleaner, lubricity enhancer and water emulsifier..
George

Geo


Just typical geno---------- just raggin please don't take offence.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


I know you sell Mobil but have you tested Primrose syn oil.


Geno