On this board, I often read about various manufacturer's products voiding all or part of GM's warranty. Most recently, it was a Hypertech unit I read about in the "Duramax Diesel Engines" forum of this website.


Last week, I gave Banks a call to see if the Six Gun will be produced for the LLY and if there's an ETA on it. I left a message and received a call back from a sales guy (I think Bruce was his name). When I spoke w/ him, he said the LLY product is in the works and a truck is on order. The ETA for the product is still up in the air due to R&D, but it is a high priority.


Before we hung up the phone I asked how easy it was to remove the programmer before taking it in for warranty work. I was told that I wouldn't need to because there are safety precautions taken in the programming. He aslo said there was a law or case which required the manufacturer to prove the programmer was at fault.


Since I'll be receiving my LLY truck soon. I'd like to purchase a power mods which will not void the warranty. If Banks is the only manufacturer that will stand behind a voided warranty, my decision is easy


MY QUESTIONS:


Will Banks stand behind this statement if my warranty is voided/denied? What happens if the tranny blows during the warranty period? Will any other manufacturers of power mods accept responsibility if something happens and GM blames them?


I would REALLY like Colin Banks or Peter T from Banks to respond. And for everyone else, please DO NOT turn this into a manufacturer bashing thread.


Thanks for reading my long post,


Marco

If you go in for warranty work with a power adder GM can void your warranty, end of story.


Whether it's right, wrong or indifferent YOU will have to fight with GM about it.


Don't depend on any company's word or the Magnusson Moss act on what GM can or cannot do. Those things mean little when GM has control over the situation.


If you add a module, be ready to pull it if you take it in for service. Also be prepared to be your own warranty station. Every dealer, service writer, service department and techs are different. Some care and some don't. Just exercise common sense and manage the risk if you are going to add power.


JMHO but if you had to fight GM legally on your warranty and asked any vendor to back you up or pay for a claim you would then have TWO legal battles on your hands.

Would you like some info from other people, or only from Banks reps?


Here's how it works: the law works the same for everyone, all vendors. When you add an aftermarket part to the truck, you now have two co's. who will not warranty each other's parts for obvious reasons.


Let's take the Hypertech example, you saw how it played out. The GM rep. blamed the programmer, and so on. Hypertech stood up, IMO, and said they'd fix whatever could be proven that they broke.


Therein lies the crux of the matter. Any vendor worth anything should be engineering a product that will not damage other components under normal use. The exception would be extreme power tuners, thus the disclaimers or waivers that some are now having to sign, since the high hp levels can easily damage the rest of the drivetrain. Obviously, if a guy is making 600hp and twists off a U-joint, GM should not take responsibility for it, and most likely the vendor will tell you that he didn't bust a U-joint when testing the product during 500 dyno pulls, so it must have been weak and thus not his problem.


Neither side has to prove that the other side is at fault, the owner gets stuck in the middle.


This is not Banks specific - no vendor will guarantee that other parts on the truck will not fail, and GM's stance (and all other mfr's) is that any modification, however unrelated, is the root cause of your problems. I had an injector stick open and burn through a piston. The GM rep. specifically tried to blame my 33" tires!!! Fortunately the tech and SM at the dealership knew better and told him that it had to be an injector failure.


I have seen quite a bit of discussion of this same topic (about Banks and the M.M. act) on Dodge and Ford diesel sites, and the general consensus was that it was a marketing ploy. If you take your truck in with ANY tuner on it (even if the dealership down the street sold it and installed it for you) chances are that a GM rep. will try to deny coverage, and the dealership might not try to fight hard for you, and I don't think ANY vendor has the clout to dictate warranty terms to GM.


It wasn't until Thorco brought in his high priced lawyer that GM backed down and acted reasonably. It's not about ethics or common sense - it's about a large corporation trying to cut costs and save money on labor by not spending it diagnosing something if they can just blame other parties.


Read the Magnusson Moss act. I have, and it's vague enough that mfr's feel justified in flatly denying any assistance with drivetrain or driveability issues if you've even changed tire size. That's their interpretation of how it works.

Would you like some info from other people, or only from Banks reps?


...


I had an injector stick open and burn through a piston. The GM rep. specifically tried to blame my 33" tires!!!


...


Yes, I'd like to hear from other people, but I wanted to specifically invite posts from Banks. I wanted to hear from Colin and Peter since they post here and are not just in the sales department. I'd also like to hear about any specific incidents that people have personally encountered w/ Banks or other power mod manufacturers involving GM warranty issues (just the facts w/o bashing).


33" tires cause stuck injectors??? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif I hope he's not up here in Northern California... do you have a name on this rep?

Once Steve started typing his rebuttal to warranty denial they knew they were no match ....


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif





Everything he states is right on the money,I have to admit ....

I will take off my Edge before I go to the dealer for any warranty work. Its common sense.


Like brushing your teeth before you go to the dentist....


Jesse

Sadly I have personally seen this happen a couple of times and heard of many other horror stories. No matter who you talk to at Banks they will swear up and down that none of their modifications will void your warranty. First trip to the dealer.. slam the warranty is voided and you are stuck with the bill. Call Banks tell them the situation... they tell you that there products don't void the warranty and they mail you a copy of the Magnusson Moss act and tell you good luck.


HoraceEdited by: Battering Ram

Sadly I have personally seen this happen a couple of times and heard of many other horror stories. No matter who you talk to at Banks they will swear up and down that none of their modifications will void your warranty. First trip to the dealer.. slam the warranty is voided and you are stuck with the bill. Call Banks tell them the situation... they tell you that there products don't void the warranty and they mail you a copy of the Magnusson Moss act and tell you good luck.


Horace





This is exactly what I'm afraid of and why I posted this thread. What I wanted to hear was that Banks would go to battle for you against GM or have some sort of connection/remedy for the situation. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


I guess I'm back to square one... Wait for the warranty to expire or remove the box every dealer trip and hope for the best.

mbeckwith,


Please call or p.m. Peter T. 800-438-7693 ext. 3001. He has been out road testing all day, but will be happy to answer your questions in detail tomorrow (2/19/03).


Battering Ram,


"No matter who you talk to at Banks they will swear up and down that none of their modifications will void your warranty".


"Call Banks tell them the situation...they tell you that their products don't void the warranty and they mail you a copy of the Magnusson Moss Act and tell you good luck."


Okay, I'm calling Bullsh*t on this one. Battering Ram, I don't know what axe you have to grind but if you're going to slam my company, please come to the table armed with facts not generalizations. I'm talking about specific instances, names, dates, etc. etc.


Speaking in superlatives is the first sign that you have some personal agenda against us. Banks "always" does this, or Banks "never" does that. Do you have one specific instance? Do have any names, dates or real occurances to back up your slander? Sadly, WE'VE seen your kind before. Now let's set the record straight.


We all know about the Magnusson Moss act. We also know that there are many service managers who look for any excuse to weasel out of their warranty obligations regardless of the law. Banks levels with each potential customer on this possibility. Do unfair warranty denials occur? Of course. No after-market company can say that their product will provide immunity from unfairness at the dealership. What we can do however is arm the customer with the facts.


It doesn't end there as you so imply in your post. We've gone to the mat for our customers on more than one occasion. In some cases we've even sent executives from our headquarters to help fight these battles in court. Guess what... We've won far more than we've lost. Were we in some way obligated to fly our people abroad on our nickel to aid a customer who otherwsie wouldn't have a friend? No. We do those things because we believe in fairness. We dont run from a fight either. If we don't meet these unfair dealers head-on it's possible the situation will get worse and then we'll all have to pack up and go home. Well we're not going home.


The bottom line is that warranty denials happen whether it's fair or not. What we can promise is the offering of a well thought-out, usable product. By producing responsible equipment we can deliver a potential customer the best possible chance of avoiding a warranty denial. In the final analysis, only a problem directly caused by an upgrade can result in a fair warranty challenge. To the dealerships and service managers who see the product, slam the hood and turn their backs I have one thing to say.... Bring 'em on.


Colin Banks

Colin Banks


Can you give some examples of Won, lose cases ?? I would like to see what you were up against ....


Mac Edited by: Mackin

To the dealerships and service managers who see the product, slam the hood and turn their backs I have one thing to say.... Bring 'em on.

Colin Banks

I would have to say I admire your zest but in reality most of us that live in the real world know we are not willing to take a chance when it comes to issues with a 40k+ value vehicle. These fights and arguments with dealers and GM cost major bucks and usually the lawyers are the only ones that come out ahead. Any power adder or performance oriented device should be removed before warrenty issues are questioned. Common sense rules here.......daveEdited by: sdaver

Really wasn't trying to slam you... just speaking from past experiences... I know you don't have controll over every employee and I know you personally don't get to talk to every customer. I am however a Banks customer and I have installed several Banks packages. I'm pleased and relativly supprised that you have helped some warranty claims that have gone to court. This is a very good thing...


As for calling me out I don't think it is necessary and I was definantly not trying to call you out... however I am not lying or making anything up. If you know for absolute certain no one from your company has ever mailed out a copy of the Magnusson Moss Act to any of your customers please let me know.


Horace

Do have any names, dates or real occurances to back up your slander?





Mr. Banks,





I bet you have a long list of names of persons that have had warranty issues because of your products. Care to share this list?





J.R.Edited by: J.R. Adkins

My "experience" with the Banks tech rep I talked to about warranty is this. First thing he asked me was if I had a Dodge. When I said no he said good because they'de been the most trouble. When I told him I had a GM he said they were about the best. That leaves Ford in the middle. I told him I'd yank it if I had to go to the dealer. He didn't disagree. Banks has an installation department so I'd guess people who pay to have their installation done may not have the savy/skills to remove headers, intercooler or a wastegate controler for a dealer visit. With all the motorhomes and trucks out there, gas and diesel running Banks stuff I'm sure a bunch of them have turned up at dealers with product on them. I don't know anything about out come. Imagine installing stuff on some attorneys new motorhome and then the warranty is denied. I'm sure Banks is no stranger to these problems. Maybe that's why they're a little more conservative? Once again I have no knowledge of outcome and wont speculate.


BTW When I toured Banks a couple months ago they had a streamliner that they were putting a Cummins in to go after a land speed record and a quad turbo Mercedes funnycar not to mention the worlds fastest pickup. Also two of their own Duramax trucks and one Duramax on an engine stand.

MY QUESTIONS:


Will Banks stand behind this statement if my warranty is voided/denied? What happens if the tranny blows during the warranty period? Will any other manufacturers of power mods accept responsibility if something happens and GM blames them?


I would REALLY like Colin Banks or Peter T from Banks to respond. And for everyone else, please DO NOT turn this into a manufacturer bashing thread.


Thanks for reading my long post,


Marco


Howdy all,


Every enhancement made is a tradeoff between longevity and power. Using my transmission at 700HP will last shorter than one running at 160HP. There's a saying that goes something like "once you turn up power or change what the dealer put in there, you are your own warranty." period. You may try to get the manufacturer to help, but they shouldn't be held responsible for your quest for more power. If a company wants to make a warranty for their products, they should spell it out on paper, sign and date it. Besides, normally warranties are for parts the aftermarket companies produce, not the surrounding vehicle. Kinda like Haisley Machine's NV4500 input shaft that has a "you break it, we buy it" warranty. I'd hate to see you blow up a tranny and try to get GM to replace it since the power was turned up. Just my 2 cents.


brandon.

Things to think about. These are quotes from members of another truck forum.


First one.....
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">


I went through this with Banks and Chrysler last summer. Installed a powerpack and less than 2000 miles later I lost the transmission.....in the middle of nowhere. Chrysler roadside service took the truck 80 miles to the east and a very nice towing company owner used his own truck to take my RV camper, trailer, and family to a campground 20 miles to the west.


As soon as the tow truck arrived at the dealer I was told that they hadn't unloaded the truck yet but they saw the Banks gauges and the warranty would be voided . I called Banks, they called the dealer to no avail. Banks told me that this dealer was not open to any negotiation and I should just pay the bill and deal with CD when I got back home. They said they would help.


Once at home CD told me to deal with the dealer of purchase. The dealer of purchase was helpfull for about 2 weeks and then I heard nothing. I called back about 3 weeks later and discovered that the helpfull service manager had been fired. The new service manager said if I do anything to the truck I'm on my own. No warranty.


I again contacted Banks to take them up on their offer for help. They wrote a letter stating basically '..we don't think chrysler should have voided your warranty....hope this helps...' . That was it. I went back to their (Banks') website and discovered that the warranty claims had been removed.
Bottom line was that without significant financial resources to pursue either CD or Banks in court I'll I could do is let it go.
</BLOCKQUOTE>

Another one.....
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">


Things are going So So, Since my Lawyer has been involved Banks is now talking, they have admitted no wrong doing in their advertising claims but have so far proposed to pay for all of my out-of-pocket repair expenses, and to credit me back the cost for the power pack tlc kit once it is returned to them.


This settlement would have been great before but I had to get a Lawyer involved to get to this point, so now the lawyer fee's are involved but under the law I have a right to also recop those loses as well if I win my case, should this actually go to court!!!
</BLOCKQUOTE>
The outcome....
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
After many months, I have the check in-hand from my lawyer ending the issues with Banks, All of my out-of-pocket expenses were covered including the lawyer fee's, keep in mind that no-fault was ever admitted, also since I started this case against Banks, I've noticed that thier advertising does not indicate any longer that their equipment does not void factory warranty so by pushing this, maybe I have helped others.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
You be the judge.

My "experience" with the Banks tech rep I talked to about warranty is this. First thing he asked me was if I had a Dodge. When I said no he said good because they'de been the most trouble.





Your right... the 98.5-02 Cummins were the most trouble because the Banks Ottomind hardwired into the pump. Whenever a truck was taken in... even if the box was removed the warranty was voided. This was always put in the computer under the truck vin. This became a problem because the VP44 fuel pump was not as reliable as the previous mechanical P7100's. Even if you knew the Sevice Tech personally and they covered the waranty, as soon as the pump was sent off to Bosch or Cummins and the wire tap was seen the warranty was voided and they charged the dealer for the pump. So the burden came all the way back to the owner. Luckily on the new Dodges and Duramaxes they are bassically plug n play. Less reason to have waranty conserns. Most performance company's, not just Banks, state that they don't void the engines warranty and site the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. The best rule of thumb when buying any aftermarket performance product is " You are Your Own Warranty Station" Hopefully for yall Duramax guys this will not be a problem.


Horace Edited by: Battering Ram

Hey Banks......

You have to be kidding right?? Who among us normal people has the money, time or resources to go to court against GM? Are you kidding?

And if you lose you have to pay GM's attorney fees. Thats a 100K gamble minimum.

GM WILL VOID your warranty if you drive it in with any hp mod installed.

This is a stupid conversation.

Hey Banks...

Why dont you put it in writing that WHEN GM voids our warranty YOU will pay all warranty charges???

Put your pen where your mouth is. Lets see the Tough writing like the tough talk.

Bring it on!Edited by: problemchild

anybody that does not read the little warranty book that came with thier truck at time of purchase about adding anything that effects the emissions of the veh and then expects gm to cover it under warranty after it fails is not being honest with themselves,gm,any attorneys involved,and the company in whitch they purchased the power adders from. you and you alone voided your own warranty and you and you alone failed to read the fine print about possible damage to veh. if you install these items on your car or truck. as a gm tech for 20 + years before leaving because of people like you I AM VERY QUALIFYED TO MAKE THESE CLAIMS. any good tech can tell even if you remove the items that they have been there and you are not fooling anyone by removing them before going in to the dealer.they only repair it under warranty because of fear that you wont buy anymore vehicles from them. the tech always gets the short end of the stick and he does not want to fix your veh that you say is under warranty when he or she infact knows it is not a valid warranty claim. believe me I know

Fishhog,


Why do you say the Tech gets the short end of the stick? Doesn't the Tech get paid the same if its warranty or not?


Jesse

Fishhog,


Why do you say the Tech gets the short end of the stick? Doesn't the Tech get paid the same if its warranty or not?


Jesse half as much if your lucky when i left.it also depends if you are a flat rate shop or a straight hour shop.if things have changed in the last 7 or 8 years ,kinda doubt it as i worked for the general to long to think it will ever change. somebody will chime in here if i'm wrong

What do you mean "The Tech gets the short end of the stick". At least he has work to do. It's better than nothing. He's not doing it for free.


Chris

i think that banks is getting slammed here,just because someone ask the question in reference to banks.fact is edge,quad,tst all of them are in the same boat.if your truck has problemas the dealer should prove that your aftermarket part caused the problem,problem is you may have to make them prove it and that could be costly.hey banks is here and supporting the place,i dont run thier products but lets try to ease up on them.bottom line any chip manufacturer will try tohelp you out because they want you to be happy,but i dont think anyone is makeing products that will purposely hurt the engine..tranny well thats something else.if you play you pay if you dont like the rules stat out of the game.

My dealership avoids all this by saying to just remove all that type of stuff before you bring the truck in. I talked to the service manager before I brought my truck in for a reflash last year. I won't lie about what I have on my truck, but I am not opposed to keeping them from asking the question! Anyway, he told me to take off the Juice, take out the Amsoil air filter and put paper air filter element back in.


While I don't mind this policy, I have a feeling they will make me take my Mega filter off as well if I bring it in for an engine related concern, which sucks.


To that end, I am ready to swap out my swiss cheesed air bax with my the Amsoil for a stock one with a pere element, I'll pull out the Attitude and Juice module, as well as pulling the EGT probe and plugging the hole. I even have my set of factory wheels mouned with old 245s in case in need to put those on.


Now, the one and only time I took the truck in, they were not concerned about my aftermarket muffler or gauges. I have since replace the original set of gauses with the Attitude, so the only way I can completely take out the attitude is by pulling the EGT probe and putting a plug in it's place.

afp1

I would not plug the egt hole. I would run another guage. That way it doesnt look like you just pulled the attitude off.

Actually it will look like I just pulled the EGT gauge off, and if they ask I'll say "well, you told me to take anything like that off.........."

I agree with King D


You choose to modify your truck you have to take responsability. You guys read your warranty book, it is pretty clear. The transmission in your trucks is built to handle 10% over stock horsepower or load as a buffer for warranty issues. That sounds like 30 horsepower to me. I don't think it is fair to jump on Banks, Edge, Quad, TTS for building programs that we all asked for and try to hold them accountable for our misuse and abuse. In my opinion, anything over stock is abuse because the rest of the truck and drivetrain were not built to handle it. Read the side marker on your trucks. It says 2500 HD, not race truck. Remember guys, we have a truck built to haul heavy loads in comfort. The Duramax does it well. Some of us want to do it a lot faster, some of us see this great truck as having a hotrod , daily driver, and work truck all in one. GM should not be held liable nor should the tuners for our whims.


mike

mbeckwith,


Please call or p.m. Peter T. 800-438-7693 ext. 3001. He has been out road testing all day, but will be happy to answer your questions in detail tomorrow (2/19/03).





Thanks Colin. I had about a 20 min talk w/ Peter today. I feel more informed about the way things work w/ warranty situations. Peter was quite helpful and willing to explain what is right and wrong plus the way things actually work in the real world.





The bottom line is that warranty denials happen whether it's fair or not. What we can promise is the offering of a well thought-out, usable product. By producing responsible equipment we can deliver a potential customer the best possible chance of avoiding a warranty denial. In the final analysis, only a problem directly caused by an upgrade can result in a fair warranty challenge. To the dealerships and service managers who see the product, slam the hood and turn their backs I have one thing to say.... Bring 'em on.





This last paragraph that Colin wrote is a fair summary of my phone call with Peter. Of course Peter went in greater detail and provided examples which made sense.


Did I get the answers that I wanted? Yes and no. I do believe that Banks will stand up for the consumer. However, there's no magic answer which make you immune to warranty denials.


Since I don't care to drag race my truck or upgrade the transmission... Banks is looking like a good choice to me. I'll make my final choice in about 2 months or so. I figure it will take a couple more weeks to get my new LLY. Another couple weeks to break-in the truck initially. By then Banks and Edge (maybe others) should have products out or nearly out.

Mike and KingD, you are both missing the point. I agree if you add power and tear it up it is yours to fix. But Banks is the only company trying to sucker people into buying their box by claiming it is the safest and that it will not void your warranty. That is a crooked sales technique and they should be bashed for it to possibly help some unsuspecting folks. If they quit claiming it wouldn't void your warranty and giving trade ins they probably wouldn't sell many since they are the lowest hp upgrade in their price range.

OK, my turn!!


First, GM is getting very very wise to these little miracle boxes on our trucks. Dont think they are not. I bet you will be suprised what they know. If its not there, regardless of what it is, its better for you.


Fishhog, your dead on in your statements. Warranty payin jobs suck, plain and simple. Its a good estimate to figure the average warranty job pays 30% less then the same job customer pay. Most dealers are gonna clam all over looking for your box, then they can void your warranty and get paid more to fix it cause your paying the bill, not GM. Dont believe any of this. Ask the fellow who owns the 03 I just finished up today. It was discovered that he had mods done and GM folded there hands and said no way.. There wasnt even a discussion. Perhaps a lawyer could do something, but like Mike L and others have mentioned, its in your owners manual..


I own a modded truck and alot of my customers have modded trucks, its just a gamble we are willing to take, just like the rest of you.

Mike and KingD, you are both missing the point. I agree if you add power and tear it up it is yours to fix. But Banks is the only company trying to sucker people into buying their box by claiming it is the safest and that it will not void your warranty. That is a crooked sales technique and they should be bashed for it to possibly help some unsuspecting folks. If they quit claiming it wouldn't void your warranty and giving trade ins they probably wouldn't sell many since they are the lowest hp upgrade in their price range.





This is what this thread is about... All performance companys know that if you use your products it is going to void the warranty no matter if its a Ford, Dodge, or Chevy. What I was trying to get accross, inform, warn (whatever you want to call it) is that Banks advertises and repeatdly says is that none of there products will void your warranty period. It seems recently they have backed off slighly from that stance but as you read in Mr. Banks post that this is still the case. This is simply not true. This did become sort of a bash Banks thread after Mr. Banks called me a liar and had his rant but everyone should come away knowing that after any performance modifications "You are Your Own Warranty Station." Regretably this sometimes causes customers to have to pay out of pocket for engine/transmission damage that their modifications did not cause. But that is the price we pay for wanting high performance diesel engines.


Horace

I too think some are missing the point ....


There is a whole lotta truck there and a whole lot can go wrong where the finger pointing could go on if you go in for service or warranty repair ....


Look at Socal and his tires imagine if he was Banks'd ....


Look at Chev's rearend what if he was Banks'd ....


My rear looked brand spanking news and I can guarantee I have been way harder on mine ...


How about early fuel rail leaks and lopey idle.....


Imagine if you went in Banks'd ....


There are many ....


Bottom line if you go in with a performance enhancer on your truck your committing warranty suicide .... I'll take responsibilty IF I wreck it ,I have ....


Mac

CPMac,


"Banks is the only company trying to sucker people into buying their box by claiming it is the safest and that it will not void your warranty".


We do not claim in our ads, over the phone or on our website that we will not void your warranty.


"That is a crooked sales technique and they should be bashed for it".


CPMac, there is no truth in your post. I have to wonder what your intentions are. If you have a solid fact based issue with Banks give me a call and I'd be happy to talk it over with you.


800-438-7693 ext.1010 or cbanks@bankspower.com

Bottom line:


Are we grown up or not? We all know the ramifications of adding add ons when it comes to factory warranty. Guys, it's been like this for 50years. Dealer catches you with a mod and you are toast. When we talk to someone, are we listening to them or hearing something more to our liking. I can't believe Banks or anyone of the tuners here would flat out say their product will pass warranty inspection. This whole thing sounds like a vast leftwing conspiracy " Not my fault, They have a lot of money, they should fix it for free. If they new it would hurt something, they should never have put it on the market. I was never told it would void my warranty". And someone with 617 hp and 1189 tq is making the biggest stink. Go figure http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/4DE_DSCN2418.jpghttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/B5F_DSCN2419.JPG

And someone with 617 hp and 1189 tq is making the biggest stink. Go figure http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif





Yep... as soon as I blow my headgasket it's going in for warranty work... hope they have an engine hoist to pull 100+lb worth of turbos out before they get to working on it!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


HoraceEdited by: Battering Ram

And someone with 617 hp and 1189 tq is making the biggest stink. Go figure http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif





Yep... as soon as I blow my headgasket it's going in for warranty work... hope they have an engine hoist to pull 100+lb worth of turbos out before they get to working on it!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


Horace





Your looking out for the little guy ,right ??





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

How do the techs know if you have/use a box even/when it's not installed?


Just trying to learn something here.

Your looking out for the little guy ,right ??





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif





Yes of course... when you are as deep into this buisness as I am you know that once you install a modification the warranty is shot. Hopefully the little guys, new guys, or misinformed guys will get from this thread that once they modify there truck they are going to have to foot the bill for repairs that would have been covered under warranty if they had not installed mods. Some people know the risk and are very willing to take them but others are just misinformed. It would make anyone furious if they dropped off there truck for warranty work and when they go to pic it up they have a $2000 injection pump bill, $3600 injector bill, or even a $10,000 engine replacement bill. I used a personal example at first and perhaps I should have been a bit more general but these are lessons that once someone has learned that they have an obligation to pass on and try to help others.


HoraceEdited by: Battering Ram

How do the techs know if you have/use a box even/when it's not installed?


Just trying to learn something here.

after all shouldn't the tech know more about your vehicle than you do and where to look. they all have to communicate and be plugged in some how. this is what he gets paid to do.

Vut if the box isn't there when he plugs in how will he know you are running a box (even if it isn't currently installed) Or did I mis read what was wrote?

Hi Colin,


Glad to see you here. Have a question for you. I picked up a Six-Gun/Speed Loader on Monday from you guys (Jim Joyce was the Salesman). Was hoping to get a tour of the facility's as my 17 year old was with me and he's a camaro guy himself. Would love to still get one but figure it would have to come from someone higher up the ladder.


Sorry, getting off track from the original question. Based on the fact that most (all?) dealerships would probably love to void the warranty with the Six-Gun installed, Can it safely (meaning retain your warrany) be installed in the engine compartment for easier removal if the vehicle needs to be taken in for service? I understand and like the fact that it's designed to be installed in the cab but for warranty work it's not the easiest to remove with the harness going thru the firewall. Mine is currently installed as your instructions indicate (almost, but more on that in a minute). I need to take the truck in for some starter problems and would prefer them not seeing it.


It will get a full test this weekend as I'm hooking up the 5th wheel and 'escaping' for the weekend. With a total weight over 25,00lbs it should be a better test than the dyno day your doing!


I haven't installed the Speed Loader option yet as time hasn't allowed it. Also, Can the adjustment knob/switch wiring also be lengthened? I'd like to mount mine in a different location than you suggest (looking at putting it in the overhead).


Will post a 'seat of the pants' report when I get back but I don't believe I'll be dissappointed!


Thanks,


Chuck

Mike and KingD, you are both missing the point. I agree if you add power and tear it up it is yours to fix. But Banks is the only company trying to sucker people into buying their box by claiming it is the safest and that it will not void your warranty. That is a crooked sales technique and they should be bashed for it to possibly help some unsuspecting folks. If they quit claiming it wouldn't void your warranty and giving trade ins they probably wouldn't sell many since they are the lowest hp upgrade in their price range. i see your point and i guess we can agree to disagree

Did I get the answers that I wanted? Yes and no. I do believe that Banks will stand up for the consumer. However, there's no magic answer which make you immune to warranty denials.


Since I don't care to drag race my truck or upgrade the transmission... Banks is looking like a good choice to me. I'll make my final choice in about 2 months or so. I figure it will take a couple more weeks to get my new LLY. Another couple weeks to break-in the truck initially. By then Banks and Edge (maybe others) should have products out or nearly out.


Reading this and trying to understand what's important to you, it seems to me that the Juice with Attitude is actually a better choice (assuming they're both available.)


I say this because I don't think either mfr will stand up for the customer more than the other, or provide better customer service. The Juice is well known to be smoother and quieter than stock. I haven't heard a head to head comparo on that particular issue. It monitors and protects the trans and can provide more hp and display 4 parameters at the same time - digital gauges can cost up to $700 for a pair.


IMO, the Juice provides more for the money and equal service and protection. One can choose to drive carefully or race with either product, but if you write down a list of features side by side and determine what's important/not important to you, you'll be better served than anything anyone else says.

Colin, you've got a PM.


--Rob

I have read through all the posts, very interesting. I agree, once you chip it, you gambling to have your warranty voided, and rightly so. GM didnt caust the problem. But, as far as Banks. I called them yesterday and asked about there product. It came across to me that GM would not void my warranty with their products. I let them know of my readings on the internet about how GM voids warranties, and they said that cant happen. I agree it cant, but it does. People need to be aware of this before buying your products. That little line that says not responsible for warranty issues is BULL. This should be discussed with each customer so they know what they are getting into. Most people just see they can get more power and buy the product without thinking, until their warranty is red flagged. I have also called 10 dealerships in So-Cal regarding warranty concerns. I got a wide range of awnsers about chip, programmers, exhuast, bigger wheels, suspension. But the general story I got was any combination of chip or program, lifted truck with larger tires, and oily air filters, my warranty will be red flagged for the suspension, rear end, transmission, and engine. There goes my new $40,000 truck. Right or wrong this is what happens, and will only get worse for us.

Short Version: If you plan to play, plan to pay.

Long Version:
Well I have news for you folks. Every time I ordered something from Banks the salesman mentioned the little blurb about this could effect my warranty.

I have also had Banks reps tell me I didnt want that particular product for my vehicle for one reason or another. Not giving names so Colin doesnt fire that salesman, http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif but the salesman was very straight forward with me.

If you plan on doing something to effect warranty, plan on not having things warrantied. We are adults, and GM will do anything to save a buck. Most dealers are fair, but most dealers also live on a very fine line when it comes to profit margin. You never know, that Mustang you blew away like it was standing still might have been the service manager at your local dealership, and I bet ya he took down your license number! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif

Most of these power add-ons will not hurt the engine. It is what we tend to do with the power. If you have 500 rwhp and 900 ft/lb torque and drive like the blue haired ladies, the engine and for that matter even the transmission will most likely hold up fine. It is all of those 0-infinity runs we love to do on a regular basis. Well at least that is what I use the extra power for.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif