For the last few weeks I’ve been getting the occasional hard start. Crank it 2 or 3 times before it would light up. Got really bad last Saturday, wouldn’t start at all Sunday or Monday. It’s been cold (again…..) the last two mornings, about -2F this morning, so thinking it might be a fuel problem I left the block heater plugged in all day, covered the front of the truck with a tarp, and ran an electric heater under it for a few hours.

Nada.

Noticed that although it wouldn’t start, I was getting white smoke from the exhaust and a very rich diesel smell.

Only a few thou on the fuel filter, been getting fuel from the same source forever, running stock except for the exhaust all winter.

So called roadside assistance and they are going to tow it to the dealer in the morning, gratis, even though I’m out of the basic warranty.

Hate to think what the problem is……….

Glow plugs or Fuel heater could be as simple as that .....


Let us know ....


Good luck





Mac

Mac, I ope you are right.


Truck just left on the back of a Ford.


How embarassing, I may have to move out of the neighborhood. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

Off to a great start. Dealer concluded the batteries were down a bit, put the charger on them, and dropped tools for the day.


We'll see what tomorrow brings.

Looks like the batteries. Enough juice to spin it over but not to power glow plugs and intake heater.


I'm surpirsed as it always spins over fast enough, but I did complain to them last winter that under cold weather, high electrical load starts I got a voltage drop sufficent to lose my clock and radio settings. After doing a load test they said the batteries were OK. I set my park brake so the headlights won't come on during startup and didn't have any more problems, but clearly they were NFG even then.


I know there have been problems with leaking batteries but has anyone else experienced this?

Looks like the batteries. Enough juice to spin it over but not to power glow plugs and intake heater.


I'm surpirsed as it always spins over fast enough,...... .


I know there have been problems with leaking batteries but has anyone else experienced this?





Tim, read my post from a couple weeks ago:


http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4556&KW=hd%2Dnate


Due to simple reasons of my own, I was unable to get the truck in to the shop until this morning. The Service Manager is thinking the same thing, batteries so we will see how it goes.


Once started, it runs great, but after warmed up, if I shut it down for 30-40 minutes, it will not restart.


Keep in touch.

Nate


Sure sounds like we are dealing with the same problem, right down to the smoke from the exhaust. I wonder if Eric found out what the problem was with his customers car? I hope its this simple. Driving my wife's 1991 pickup (reliable as an anvil....) while my $54,000 Cdn truck sits dead in the driveway has definitely assaulted my normally good nature. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif


I'll pick up the truck tonight, I'll let you know how it works out. Looking at the weather forecast its going to be next Monday or Tuesday until we see overnight temps in the teens. That should put it to the test. This has to be the first time I've ever looked for cold temperatures.


Good luck on your problem.

You didn't say what year truck or how many miles/kilos.....I think after 3 years those Delco batterries have about had it regardless if leaking or not. Suppose to go 5-years, but ????????


Drop a pair of Yellow or Red Optimas (yellow if you run a lot of accessories) in the truck and you should be fine. On the other hand lots of low voltage issues to the Glow Plugs lately. One or the other I bet. If you go for new batteries have them check the gow plug voltage to be sure it's up to spec just in case one is causing the other problem.


Good Luck.

Willow and Nate


I dont know if it will help but take a look at your battery cables where they bolt to the starter.


My truck was having some quirks with a no start and the batteries seemed to die out very quickly trying to crank it over, and when I would jump it it would fire right up. And I also had a problem with my dash guages not working from time to time that I couldnt figure out.


I happened to have the PS inner fender off 1 day and I checked the batt cables since there right there, and they were loose enough to move around by hand. The nut was still on the stud but they were loose nontheless.


I tightened up the nut and I havent had a problem with the truck starting or the batteries cranking slowly or my dash guages for over 11/2 months now.


I think if the voltage is interupted or drops below a set point it screws up the computer and or other electrical parts so even if its cranking it wont fire up any more.


Nate I see yours is an 03 like mine and I think they seem to be having more electrical problems since they changed the electrical systems or so it seems.


The batt cables might not be your problem but it's a thought. It worked for me, maybe it is worth checking.


My .02 Good Luck Diesel Dragon

Started great at the dealer last night but cranked and cranked and cranked this morning......................eventually started though.


Its an '02, 62,000 km.


Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'll pass them along, its back to the dealer tonight.


PS shouldn't have said anything about the '91. I 'dead sticked' into the driveway last night, the tow truck is picking it up this morning........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

I replaced my batteris with Optima Reds a couple weeks ago.





If the hard starting persists, try pumping the primer up rock hard before attempting to start and see if this helps.





Also, you could have the dealer check rail psi, and manually jack it up to 23k and see if the actual follows or falls short. You could have a bad injector. The Dmax will NOT light off until 5k psi is in the rail, and if an injector is bypassing excessively, it can cause problems like this...

Service writer says its the injector pump. Week to ten days delivery. Will stop and talk to the Tech tonight.....

After changing the pump, I'm quite certain it may get marginally better, but am quite confident there is a bad injector in there.





They need to check return fuel volumes and determine if they are excessive...

Just got a call from the dealer.


They "THINK" there are two bad injectors on the the right bank and that the fuel was just blowing on by them??


They are replacing all four on that side.


Should be ready to pick up this afternoon so we will see.


This is NOT good news since mine was built AFTER the 09/02 date when the injector fix was suppose to put in production.


Something tells me that this is not the problem and they are just chasing ghost right now. Unfortunately they are calling for warm weather this week so it will be difficult to tell if it is the problem.


The truck runs GREAT after it fires up, would it be doing this IF there were bad injectors???

Gee John have you considered a career in motivational speaking?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Just joking - but I was hoping I was going to miss all this injection system crap. Oh well.

Nate - just saw your post.


I have the same concern, it runs as good as ever ONCE it starts.......

They will run OK with injector problems, but will not attain max psi when commanded to do so.





This has been happening in 2003 models as well, so it is not year specific. Just had a call on a 2003 with same symptons. Dealer did pump, and result was SSDD...





Look for a special policy warranty extension regarding injectors from GM in the near future...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

Look for a special policy warranty extension regarding injectors from GM in the near future...http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif


This would make for a lot of very happy DMAX owners. I think it would create a lot of "goodwill" on GM's part and probably go a long way to holding on to customers in the future.

Are you guy's reading John's posts? It's like he has a crystal ball or something.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Are you guy's reading John's posts? It's like he has a crystal ball or something.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif





http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c5/c5nate//merlin-ball-2.jpg





OK....just got another call from the dealer. It is now starting OK but not as quickly as they would like. They want to replace BOTH banks of injectors.


They are out of injectors and will have some in Monday morning. So rather than driving a rent-a-turd ('04 Grand Prix). They asked if I wanted the truck for the weekend, I said HE!! yes. He also stated that I will see a noticable difference in the way the truck starts and runs.


They stated that a bulletin just came through about an hour ago about this problem. Does anyone have access??? Edited by: HD-Nate

OK OC - what do you know that we don't? Agree that doing so would provide PR value way beyond actual costs.

SOMEBODY CALL ERIC!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

Adding a few psi on the inlet of the pump seems to help.





I've heard of guys priming it up really hard and then it starts...





2 sources, different parts of the country, SOMEWHAT similar time periods, and their sources were reputable...

What's the best source you guys have found for the Optima Batteries? (supply and cost)-----------Phil

Has anybody had any experience with Odyssey drycells? I have heard good things about them and the military is checking them out. I have been using dual yellow Optimas for years but have had some bad experiences with them - they are limited in the number of amps that you can pump into them and if one goes bad it will kill the other one with no warning.

Got the truck back and it starts better than most gassers I have owned!! I am extremely happy with how the truck is doing now. It only got down to 31 degrees last night so it was not much of a challenge but as soon as the light went out 1 or 2 spins of the engine is all it took to fire.

Here are some of the techs notes:
I did the test for vacuum on both sides and the vacuum is good on the engine but the return flow is excessive on the drivers side. Installed 4 new injectors and still had extended but successful crank. I contacted TAC and was told of a bulletin that had not come out yet. TAC faxed to me, RE Bulletin 04-06-04-007. Bulletin requires replacement of all 8 injectors when a high return rate is spotted on either side. I replaced the remaining 4 on the right bank. Extended crank time was immediately eliminated, multiple test showed very short crank to successful start. Edited by: HD-Nate

The afformentioned bulletin should hit the presses any day now.





Willow, I'd drag my heels a bit so you can see about getting all 8...

They will run OK with injector problems, but will not attain max psi when commanded to do so.





This has been happening in 2003 models as well, so it is not year specific. Just had a call on a 2003 with same symptons. Dealer did pump, and result was SSDD...





Look for a special policy warranty extension regarding injectors from GM in the near future...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

Last time they did that they reimbursed people that paid out of pocket within the new warranty period.

I don't know if your problem has re-occured, but I had the same problem about 3 months ago. Dealer said it was injector pump. Installed pump, same problem still happening. So I took it to another dealer. Two injectors popped. Got truck back, one month later, truck had hard starts. Went to change oil, Found the main battery lead almost falling off starter post. Put lead back on, checked ouut all other connections, haven't had a problem ever since. When problems occured truck had 20,000 miles on an 03'. Now have over 40,000. I never thought about looking at starter lead. However, truck hasn't run this good since I bought it.


One more thing, I Run Kennedy's oil bypass, a nicktane kit, and fppf total power. If this has anything to do with performance, I don't know, but it gives me piece of mind.


thanx fellas

TommJr


Thats some of the problems i was having with mine too and it was the batt cables at the starter like i stated above...... Go figure.


Dam electrical problems hate'em


Diesel Dragon

Hey guys, here is the TSB on injector replacement.

TSB (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5737&PN=2)Edited by: hoot

Wow thanks for the info.


I'm waiting on the pump to come in, I'll be talking to the service tech about this!

Well they replaced the pump, started all right when I picked it up last night, but cranked hard this morning. Working 50 miles away from the dealer I haven't been able to talk to the tech working on it. Just spoke to the service writer, and trying to talk to him about what they did and what I think is a lot like trying to tell your neurosurgeon how to perform brain surgery, he’s not very receptive.


I voted 'no problem' in the injector poll. Can I change that?

Tim,


Glad to hear its starting for you again.


When you say "cranked hard" do you mean it took a long time to start or was hard to turn over?


Since they replaced ALL the injectors in mine, it is a whole different truck to start, less than 2 seconds every morning since.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif I need to change my vote also, must have been a jinxhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Long time to start. Until recently all I had to do was touch the key to get it to fire. This morning it was two extended cranks to start. That starter looks like an expensive piece to replace.........

Long time to start. Until recently all I had to do was touch the key to get it to fire. This morning it was two extended cranks to start. That starter looks like an expensive piece to replace.........








Sounds like they put a bandaid on the problem. I would send it back and let them know that it is still not starting like it use to (or should).


Lets see with a new pump AND new injectors, you should be set for a long time. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Good luck, keep in touch!





Edited by: HD-Nate

Goes back Friday.


I'd be happier if this didn't happen but in the grand scheme of things its no big deal.


I repaired the '91 after it died a few weeks ago, but decided it was time to replace it, so we got a new Avalache. Not everyones cup 'o tea but the wife loves it (and when she's happy I'm by definition, happy) Its a nice ride, if I can pry her out of it, I'll just drive that for awhile. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Left it at the dealer Thursday night. No one in service so I leave the keys with my salesman, and give him the recent injector TSB. Service writer calls Friday afternoon, says he thinks it starts just fine, and it can't possibly be the injectors. Says they've put 'hours' into figuring out the problem, but can't tell me specifically what they did. In other words, it got the fresh air and sunshine spa treatment. I mention nicely, but firmly that I disagree and hold it another night. Told him I'm not trying to tell them how to do their job, it would be nice if it wasn't injectors, but if it isn't them, what is it? No repsonse to that but they will try again in the morning. I call Saturday, get the service manager this time, and yes it cranked a bit longer that should have, but they don't have anyone to put on it. Soooooo, there is sits.

Willow,


Do you have the option to take it to a different dealer?

The closest dealer to where I live is not an option. Let's just say we some history concening a 1991 Z34 that was a nightmare on wheels. Besides, it is a very small dealership, very small service department. The dealer its at is where I bought it, about 30 miles away. I work about 60 miles from home, and as luck would have it the dealer isn't on the way. I'm over miles so I haven't been getting a loaner, but my salesman will let me borrow his car if I'm stuck, or will drive me home - he lives close by - so I can get my other vehicle. I use a dealer close to my office for routine maintenance but I'd have to rent a car if its there for any length of time. All boils down to the logistics. I'm on travel Monday-Tuesday so leaving it is OK for now, we'll see what happens.


My salesman is an ace I haven't played with the dealership management yet. In the last 18 months I've bought my Dmax and a loaded Avalanche, and I have some 'influence' over others who have spent maybe another $250K over the last two years there.

Holy crap my truck needs injectors!!!!!!!!!!!! What a freakin' surprise!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


5 days delivery on the injectors, so I'll get it back sometime next week.


Poor wife, she gets a new truck and gets stuck driving the old one. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Got it back Wednesday, runs fine now. I understand stuff happens, but really wonder why it took four shots to figure out the problem was, and in this world of JIT it takes 5 to 10 days to get parts.

I understand stuff happens, but really wonder why it took four shots to figure out the problem was, and in this world of JIT it takes 5 to 10 days to get parts.


Took 2 weeks to get an injector puller to fix leaking cup seals in mine. At least they had it when they had to replace 2 injectors later. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif It only took 3 days to get my 2 injectors...... each, since they did one and then did the second one.

Got it back Wednesday, runs fine now. I understand stuff happens, but really wonder why it took four shots to figure out the problem was, and in this world of JIT it takes 5 to 10 days to get parts.





http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifDid you tell them "I TOLD YOU SO" http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/14/14_4_101.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001)


I'm waiting for the customer satisfaction survey.............











http://www.smileycentral.com/sigpc=ZSzeb028 (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb028)

They won't send you a survey if they know you will slam hem. I took a vehicle in for a complete service all fluids etc., and even though the vehicle only had 15K on it service guy talked me into tranny flush. I figured why not I'm about to go on a long trip anyway.
When I got it home I checked the rear hub and it still had mud caked on the filler cap, so no way did they check that. That got me to start checking everything.
Power steering LOW, oil- LOW, grease zerts never touched, etc etc.
I flew back and chewed them a new fanny, sure they did it over, but no way to tell if they touched the tranny.
I never did get a survey, so I contacted GM direct and tore them a new fanny. Did any on my screaming do any good - I doubt it.

I was actually quite civil with the service department. I've had battles in the past at another dealer/different vehicle and it was counter productive. I'm fixed, all that matters in the end, but I will factually question the whole process, either as part of the customer satisfaction survey, or in a letter if I don't get one. Will it matter? Probably not, these guys wear teflon suits and nothing sticks. But I might feel better.