i am wondering why their still is defueling or delaying with this set up, and why more defueling with the edge hj than the va, i had read that with the upgrade, their should be hard clean shifts, i am leaning a bit towards the transgo shift kit being the culprit, but still not positive, if i run the power pup programer buy itself(which has no tranny slipage protection) i still have a week long http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gifshift between gears, pushing me towards the shift kit idea, if some one else has a idea towards how to fix the problem, feel free, as to everything else the tranny upgrade is fine

how long have you had the kit?


My allison took a month to learn, but it shifts great now http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Fred, I dont have a transgo or suncoast upgrade, but you are always going to have some defueling unless you get a special programmed box or tuner that has zero defuel between shifts. I know the VA does because I have one, which I have the bigger version.

THE HOT OJ/ATTITUDE HAS AN OPTION TO NOT DE-FUEL BETWEEN SHIFTS AND IM STILL HAVING DE-FUEL BETWEEN THEM WHAT IT SUPPOSED TO BE TURNED OFFhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif ANYONE ELSE SEEING THIS?

THE HOT OJ/ATTITUDE HAS AN OPTION TO NOT DE-FUEL BETWEEN SHIFTS AND IM STILL HAVING DE-FUEL BETWEEN THEM WHAT IT SUPPOSED TO BE TURNED OFFhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif ANYONE ELSE SEEING THIS?





Yep! Same thing here. I just thought it was because of my stock tranny. Seems worse on the higher performance levels. But maybe thats just because theres more fuel being dumped in at the higher levels and it feels worse when it defuels. At any rate the no defuel option doesn't seem to work for me.

fredw, PEANUTGRWR,


Did you have the Allison flashed with a Tech2 (quck relearn) or use a manual relearn procedure after the install? I'm having a Suncoast stage 3 put in in two weeks and was hoping it would cure that nasty defuel. I, like Trippin thought that the defueling, even with the Attitude set to no defuel, was because of the stock Allison.


Josh

There is a problem with relearn on the Ally using the Tech11 and Tech1 which i use. Vetronix has not figured it out yet. I spent the last couple of days with Steve Cole playing with this relearn stuff. We learned a lot on how to actually use the Tech11 and Tech1 on the relearn. It don't work like they told you.


mike

I DONE THE MANUAL RE-LEARN PROCESS.

Mine doesn't shift well either.. I experience long hesitations between shifts... On another note, sometimes it shifts like you're speedshifting a stickshift.. The truck revs between shifts and the hits the gear really hard... Something's not right.. My attitude says under normal around town driving I'm experiencing as much as 60% tranny slip.. I've just never made it back to suncoast for Joe to look at it (seven and a half hour trip).. He said he'll make it right, I just have to find the time..

Where's Sdaver at? How does yours shift with the Stage 5 and all the power you're putin' to it?


Josh

IS ANYONE SEEING SLIP WHEN THEY HIT THE MPH LIMITER??? WHEN I HIT THE THE LIMIT MY ATTITUDE SHOWS SLIP AND ITS ERRATIC AS TO THE AMOUNT IT SHOWShttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif JUST WONDERING IF ANYONE ELSE WAS SEEING THIS?

I'm seeing 0% pnut, with or without the nos.


Shifts are nice and crisp and quick. If i've been plowin snow for a couple of days, then its a little quirky for a day, then things settle down and i add the 145 to the 215. I've finally had 2 consecutive days where i didn't have the plow or a load on the truck and she was runnin awesome today with the cool crisp air. Can't keep rubber on the rear, though. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif Stage 5, i have no complaints, and i think it seems better than stage 4, either way the truck rocks.Edited by: heartbeatcanada

I FEEL LIKE THIS IS JUST A GLITCH OR FALSE ALARM WITH MINE. CAN SAY I DONT KNOW FOR SURE THOUGH. IT HAS DONE THIS SINCE THE FIRST TIME I PUT THE ATTITUDE AND HOT OJ ON------EVEN BEFORE I BEEFED UP THE TRANNY

My attitude says under normal around town driving I'm experiencing as much as 60% tranny slip..


I think the Attitude only show Torque Converter slip, NOT Tranny clutch slip.

so i see i am not the only one now exsperienceing this, penut, how do you do the manaul relearn for the tranny, i wll try that, it also seams that 4 and 5ht are beter than 2 and 3 rd for delayhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif

Seems you guys are looking for the Edge Attitude to defuel no matter what you "add" .... I don't believe it will happen ...


When I run the "Hottest" Edge program ,no defuel torque converter locked (in Tow Haul ),my A B solenoids rapid fire and I'm in over drive banging the rev limiter faster then ever before ....


Works as advertised,No Defuel ....


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

MAC, THAT COULD BE ONE OF THE BENEFITS OF BEING EDGE'S "BOY"http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif TRUST ME MINE DEFUELS NO MATTER IF THE QUAD 215 IS STACKED OR NOT. DOESNT MATTER WHERE YOU HAVE THE ATTITUDE SET AS FAR AS TRANNY SET-UP. IT DEFUELS!!!


FREDW I MAY NOT BE RIGHT BUT I THINK THAT THE MANUAL MODE IS BASICALLY YOU DRIVING THE TRUCK AND IT SLOWLY LEARNING HOW TO SHIFT WITH THE UPGRADES AND THE EXTRA POWER. IM SURE SOMEONE ELSE CAN TELL YOU MORE ABOUT IT.

Mine does not defuel


On edit: I do remember that in first couple of weeks of my upgrade, it did "hesitate" on the 4-5 shift. Mike L told me to give it time and sure enough it went away. Edited by: DIESEL 5

Mine shifts nice and quick with the HJAT and Quad 215 stacked. I can run just the Quad 215 and I think it may shift just a touch quicker, but it could just be placebo effect.


Remember, since there are no sprags or bands the Ally must defuel "some" to shift. It does not matter if it stock or modified it will always defuel. Modules with a shorter defuel window help but the tranny needs time to adjust as well.

why does it need to defuel?so adequate time is allowed for desirred pressure to be obtained so that pressure can help elimimate slipping?

Since there are no sprags or bands to handle the power from the engine during a change from one clutch pack to the next the Allison must have the engine defuel (ie. remove power) so it can change gears.


If there was no defuel whatsoever I would think that the clutch packs would deteriorate pretty fast as they tried to clamp down under full power.


I am sure someone with more knowledge on the exact operation will chime in but that's pretty much it. Somebody correct me if I am way off base here?

Mine shifts fast and quick(my defuel has always been off with the attitude) but I drive in the highest level with my foot in it. You cant creep around like a granny and expect it to shift like a top fuel car just when you want it to. The adaptive nature of the allison adapts to your style of driving. My advice would be this. Set it to the highest power you are going to use. Clear all of the tap cells drive moderately for 6 to 7 up and downshifts then 6 to 8 say 3/4 throttle then 4 to 5 with your foot int it and you will notice a much firmer and quicker shift. Changing power levels around tends to upset the adapative nature of the allison and increase shift times.......DaveEdited by: sdaver

You cant creep around like a granny and expect it to shift like a top fuel car just when you want it to. The adaptive nature of the allison adapts to your style of driving.

my truck never makes its best pass the 1st time down the trackEdited by: mtomac

seems that it learns to shift based on throttle position. I run with it in the lower levels most of the time now because of plowing snow and dont want to have it constantly relearning but I only use WOT with the level 4 and it still shifts fine at WOT. So for the most part I drive like a grandma untill I need to merge on the highway or something and bump it up merge and bump it down.


I wish I knew of an easy way to clear the cells, I dont want to take it to the dealer and try to explain why I want them to put it into fast learn modehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

seems that it learns to shift based on throttle position. I run with it in the lower levels most of the time now because of plowing snow and dont want to have it constantly relearning but I only use WOT with the level 4 and it still shifts fine at WOT. So for the most part I drive like a grandma untill I need to merge on the highway or something and bump it up merge and bump it down.


I wish I knew of an easy way to clear the cells, I dont want to take it to the dealer and try to explain why I want them to put it into fast learn modehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif





You'll need a Tech II or a friend with one ..... Doesen't really matter as the tranny still will have to learn ...


Resetting is primarily for rebuilds and stock "driving" issue .... When increasing Power ,tranny will need to learn what to do with each stage of power to adapt and gain coverage ....





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gifEdited by: Mackin

So mackin what your saying is that when I change power levels (whick I do somewhat often) the banging I get when I set it to level one or off and the "slipping" feeling I get in level 3 or 4 is it just relearning how to manage the extra power or lack thereof?





Thanks,


Mark

In a nut shell yes .....


When my truck is cold and the Juice hasn't deployed (http://mail.wackywack.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif) The tranny is looking for the extra torque, hence the bumpy shifts .... Ditto if you run around on higher tunes no matter the programmer then lower the tune,it has to adapt ....


Once it comes to operating temp it's good to go .... It doesn't have time to adapt as it wont see many shifts ....That's why the shifts should smooth right out ,leaving the power level unadjusted ....


Best to get comfortable with a tune and leave it lowering for a day prior to a big tow if need be to accommodate the lower power for smoother shifts ....





I leave mine max, cause I can, with my Suncoast,yee haw .... I lower power or detune if EGTS are to high if I'm hauling or dragging sum'tin .... Not for everyone I assure you ....





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gifEdited by: Mackin

THE HOT OJ/ATTITUDE HAS AN OPTION TO NOT DE-FUEL BETWEEN SHIFTS AND IM STILL HAVING DE-FUEL BETWEEN THEM WHAT IT SUPPOSED TO BE TURNED OFFhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif ANYONE ELSE SEEING THIS?





Yep! Same thing here. I just thought it was because of my stock tranny. Seems worse on the higher performance levels. But maybe thats just because theres more fuel being dumped in at the higher levels and it feels worse when it defuels. At any rate the no defuel option doesn't seem to work for me.





Just an update to this thread. No changes were made to the Attitude. I did install the ATS Triple Lok trans upgrade and all defueling is now gone. With Attitude in level 5 the thing will spin the BFG 285 tires in the first three gears and bark the tires shifting into 4th. Perhaps the factory computer was sensing slip in the trans and defueling to shift and the Attitude defuel setting had nothing to do with it. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Trip you let us know what breaks next as you turn up the power ....


Gonna get violent ....





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

I'm scared! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif


Somethings gotta give sooner or later. As long as she doesn't actually hook up I might be ok. My extra long two piece driveshaft is cause for concern. It's all your fault Mack, you and the guys got me sucked in on this whole power thing. I've been watching and waiting for somone to hurt something real bad. It might be my signal to stop while I'm ahead of the game in broken parts. Got any stories of someone hurting one? PM me if you like. Inquiring minds want to know.

BECAREFUL WITH THE EXTRA LONG SHAFT AND LOTS OF POWER. I HAVE A BUDDY THAT DONE EXACTLY WHAT YOU DONE------SPIN THEN IT GRABS. BENT THE SHAFT AND B4 HE RELIZED IT IT HAD CRACKED THE TRANNY CASE ON THE TAIL SHAFT HOUSING.

Mac or anyone else,


OK, no felt defuel, but does your Attitude still show backdown on the Records portion when doing full throttle blasts in Normal mode? Tow/Haul mode? And does backdown equate to defuel or am I confused?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


Josh

Thanks for the advice Nut!


GMCSLEHD,


I can't help you...my Attitude is a version before they had records.