I still haven't decided which way to go (pre or post). I don't like the available locations for either. I have problems with both systems (most aesthetics).


What would be the disadvantages of replacing the oem fileter and head with a better head/filter design. I am pretty sure it would be fairly easy to do. Some of the advantages are you could hook it into the existing wiring for water sensor and heater. You would also have a very professional looking installation. I was thinking of getting a head that has autopriming available as well.


Any thoughts?

My best guess as to why removing the OEM filter and replacing it with an aftermarket would be the following 3 reasons:


1) Warrantyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Pinch.gif


2) Warrantyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


3) Warrantyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Throw Up.gif


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif





Mike

Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Edited by: Frank Blum

True, true, true however my dealer said that they do not have a problem with it.

I don't know about the fuel filter question, but I sure like your little guy below what vehicle you drive. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

As soon as I hit 100K that OEM is outa there. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

The other aspect of supplemental filtration is the synergism that occurs between 2 filters. Even when one filter is not as efficient, when we have the opportunity to process particulates twice, much better efficiency ratio with capture. Even with the most efficient filter, it is not 'absolute' and the more times we run fuel through a filter, the more particulates that are going to be removed.. Especially in a low viscosity liquid like diesel fuel. Thus, keeping even our 50% OEM filter in the stream gives us twice the possibility of fine particulate capture.. In this case, for a change, "if two asperins are good, four are better!"
George Morrison, STLE CLSEdited by: Georgecls

Thanks George. That was one of my concerns as well. Unfortunately there is no one perfect way as far as I can tell. I appreciate everyones input.

I just installed a Racor 2 mic filter in a loop from the tank back to the tank. I just fill up and the fuel recirculates through the new system. I didn't have to cut or change anything with the stock systems. Plus if the filter fills up it won't leave me stranded.

I just installed a Racor 2 mic filter in a loop from the tank back to the tank. I just fill up and the fuel recirculates through the new system. I didn't have to cut or change anything with the stock systems. Plus if the filter fills up it won't leave me stranded.

I like that idea. Got a pump on it? Tell us more.

I just installed a Racor 2 mic filter in a loop from the tank back to the tank. I just fill up and the fuel recirculates through the new system. I didn't have to cut or change anything with the stock systems. Plus if the filter fills up it won't leave me stranded.


Now thats an excellant idea.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif

I picked up a 5-9 psi pump at my local parts store and use it to pull through the cat base/racor filter combo. switch to shut off in cab. I installed 2 thinwall steel tubes that I bent to go to the bottom of the tank and used bulkhead fitting to go through the tank. Mounted the filter between the tank and driveshaft high as possible and plumbed with parker hose. I takes about 30 minutes to recirculate the tank at least once so I let it run for an hour the turn off till my next fill up. It is also wired to turn off with the ign in case I forget to turn off.

I've been mulling over all these "pre" and "post" options for awhile, but I really like the sound of this. Any chance of getting some pictures and more details about the feed/exit plumbing into the tank? Where did you drill into the tank? This really sounds like a neat alternative!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Anyone seen the pictures of the rust inside the cans of brand new OEM filters?? If so I would think the pre post thing should be solved. It is for me. I want a filter AFTER the stock filter that is rusting!!!!

Not to mention the plate at the bottom of the media falling off. So far 2 plates have been reported to fall off of the media. Not sure how this correlates into percentages but not too many to date have been cut open. It's got my attention.

I drilled as high up on the tank as I could, left of center from looking at the tank frrom the drive shaft. I cut one large hole for the two fitting in the shield. I could take some pics but don't know how to post them.

FirstDiesel and a bear,

Looks like the Baldwins have a rust problem too. BlueOx03 inspected his stand-by Baldwin and found some spots. So do those with post-oem Baldwin filters now need a post-post filter? Since some of the OEM RACORS have rust, that would trigger my suspicions of their other filters. So far I haven't heard of any rust in the CAT filters. Have you?

Don't know of any Cat filters that have been cut open. At least not posted here. The inside of my Baldwin filter was squeaky clean when I cut it. From what I hear the Cat is not wrapped in plastic. Only comes in a cardboard box. Has anyone cut open a Cat filter? Is there something different about the metal inside the Cat verses the Baldwin? The Baldwin has a water shedding media and coating in the can to shed water. The coating also protects the metal from rust. Its a water separating filter with a drain.(designed to handle water)


Mr X was this the Baldwin 7635(fuel filter) that was cut.

perhaps we should look into the manufacturing processes. george seems to be very familiar with them, at least the CAT process. he told me the CAT is completely automated with no human intervention. i wonder if the other guys are 100% automated too? George, time to show us more of your wisdom!

Automation is good provided guality repeatability is achieved. Takes the human error out for a low incidence of error. On a down side the condition of the parts (ie: rust in the can) would go unnoticed, although I would be compelled to think that the rust is coming from non climate controlled shelf storage which can make any filter a victim. I guess we should be concerned with the frequency of occurance and try to store our filters in a low humidity environment. Just my opinion.

a bear,

I saw BlueOxc03's report about rust spots in a stand-by Baldwin filter in a thread discussing problems with brand new fuel filters.

He sounded pissed stating it was difficult to put faith in something that was "pre-rusted" or "pre-broke." In BlueOx03's subsequent post in the same thread, BlueOx03 stated that he would be calling JK first thing this morning.

I believe BlueOx03 stated that he used an inspection mirror to examine the Baldwin filter when he found rust spots.

Maybe i should put my in my gun safe with the desiccant http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif

Thanks for the info.. Like I said I never saw the post. Now that the OEM Racors are now seeing several incidences of rust what do you plan on doing with the Cat pre oem install. Will you go with a pre Cat, OEM post, and a Cat post post.


On edit: JK also sells the Baldwin Oil filters. Again are you sure it was the coated fuel filter. If you can find his quote please post it. If the Mega does have rust I may have to punt and look into this further. If the Cat proves to have no rust and the Mega does it would be no problem to install a Cat filter on the Mega head but I would need more data before I ditch the Mega because I like the separator.Edited by: a bear

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the rust on the dirty side (inlet) of the filter? Later! Frank

Frank,

I was wondering the same thing.


a bear,

I'm not sure if I can cut and paste direct quotes under this site's copyright regs recently posted. I've paraphrased all the pertinent facts already.

Like I said it was under a "New Fuel Filter Inspection" thread.

Maybe you could check it out further?

Mr X, Just thinking about it, If a inspection mirror is used on a Baldwin filter you would only be able to see the clean side above the post seal, if that. Must have been the oil filter. But then again you would only be able to see the clean side tube which is composed of rust proof metal. Now I'm confused.

Right Frank, the rust would have to be smaller than 1 micron to redily pass.


You guys have a good week! Unfortunatly I'm off to Houston again. Edited by: a bear

I guess it's best to mimimize the exposure of all filters to moisture both before they're installed and after installation by using emulsifiers.

Phil,


You can post a link to the thread here if you like...


Nick


Perhaps someone out there can tell of if the insides of all the major filters (cat, racor, baldwin) are susceptable to rust. i wonder if one of them has a rust-proof coating? i guess that would to good to be true?

Here's the link to the thread about inspection of brand new fuel filters:

Inspection of Brand New Fuel Filters (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=006745)

It doesn't make any difference what brand of filter you use. If it is unsealed metal in any kind of humid atmosphere it will rust. All the filters should be produced in a clean dry environment and vacuum packed/heat shrunk etc. Sounds like some poor quality control again. Later! Frank

Regarding "It doesn't make any difference what brand of filter you use. If it is unsealed metal in any kind of humid atmosphere it will rust" Not necesarily. It very much depends on the chemicals used in the metal working process to produce the filter. Several filter manufacturers use an anti-corrosion coating (sometimes called a 'vanishing oil') to prevent corrosion very nearly indefinately, as long as the surface is not exposed to direct, forced water exposure. Simple airborne moisture will not cause surface corrosion. As with the CAT filter. I have inspected hundreds of these fuel filter elements and have never seen corrosion in the internal element housing.
George Morrison, STLE CLS

Yes the rust is on the dirty side but that doesn't rule out rust on the clean side where we can't see. But then that side is mostly plastic.

Here's a shot into the bottom of a brand new OEM ...


http://www.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/fuel_filter_comparo/DSCN3758.JPGEdited by: hoot

For the ones using the Mega filter, it has been found that of the two BF7635 Mega filters that have been cut open to date, both showed absolutely NO signs of advanced or begining stages of rust or corrosion. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Smile.gif The one I personally cut open was completely clean. Edited by: a bear

Well that's good news since I have mine install Post OEM. I'd prefer the OEM unit wasn't rusting but I like it being upstream of another filter if it does rust!

Clarification Please Read:


On 9/17/03, in this thread I asked a bear to check out a report by BlueOx03 of spots of rust on a Baldwin fuel filter.


Subsequently, rather than post directly to this thread, a bear posted elsewhere and asked that we post his clarification here.


Originally, a bear thought that BlueOx03 could not have been referring to a Baldwin fuel filter and he must have been referring to a Baldwin oil filter. However, BlueOx03 had informed him that the Baldwin filter with rust spots was a Baldwin replacement filter for the OEM fuel filter.


Despite receiving a Baldwin fuel filter with rust spots on it, BlueOx03 stated that he is going to install JK's post-oem Baldwin filter.

I just want to clear some things up here. The filter that I had with rust on it is an OE replacement. A Racor in a Baldwin box if you will. It was purchased locally (in Mass). The rust on it was around the WIF sensor port. I did NOT cut that filter open, I checked the inside with a mirror. There was no visible rust on the inside so I installed it. I did cut open the filter that came on the truck and found rust had formed on the inside and there was also large pieces of rust, I'm guessing part of a storage tank .

When I talked about the Mega from Kennedy, I was saying that I was going to buy one right away after seeing the filter that came off my truck first hand. I want to keep this crap out of the engine. I'll be putting it on the day UPS drops it off at my door.
I'm not sure how this turned into me talking bad about the Mega. Maybe because I duked it out with Kennedy over that exhaust system? Just a guess, I'm not sure. Maybe this is about to turn into the same type of thing. If so, I'm up to bat for the Mega.

TJ

<BLOCKQUOTE>
BlueOx03:
Here are your exact words posted in two consecutive posts which I took at face value.
Thank you for your clarification.
Does RACOR manufacture the 2 micron Baldwin filters used in JK's kit?
Since Baldwin is sending out rusted filters with rust on them - irresepctive of their source - I'd watch them closely and consider using the CAT 0749 instead of the Balwin.
Correct me if I'm wrong but a bear said that you can use a CAT 0749 with JK filter head.


quote:



<HR>



I checked the Baldwin I have in standby today, it has some spots in it. I didn't cut it open, I just used an inspection mirror. When I cut open the factory filter, it had spots of rust and some chunks of rust. The chunks were pretty good size, I think I got some of a storage tank from somewhere. In my opinion, the problem is that the opening for the water sensor allows air and moisture to get inside, where most other spin on filters have media in between the case and the atmosphere. It only takes a little moisture to get rust going and the media most likely keeps that little bit out. I'd bet money that if the manufacturer put a plug in the bottom this wouldn't happen.
My $.02
TJ




<HR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>Next Quote by blueox:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:
<HR>
Hopfully I'll be feeling good within a week. I'll be ringing JK's phone as soon as he opens in the AM. Kinda hard to put any faith in something that's prebroke or prerusted as the case may be.


TJ

<HR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>

Mr. X





He says the water sensor opening. That to me would indicate a stock filter since the Mega doesn't have this opening.


Since we know ALL the current OEM style filters are made byt the same source I guess it really doesn't matter who's name is on the outside they will all have the potential for internal rust.


As for if the MEGA Baldwin filter is made by Racor?? Are any other Baldwin filters made by them??

Mr X the cat 0749 is not the one that will fit the Mega head and the only manufacturer of the OEM filter is Racor. You cant blame Baldwin just for putting this filter in their box when they knew of no rust issues from Racors manufacturing process. They are 2 different filters made by 2 different companies. I sent a PM to Nick on the Baldwin information from their engineering dept. There is no comparison between the Baldwin OEM and the BF7635 Mega filter. The can or the Mega and all of Baldwins Microlite spin on high efficiency fuel filters with the water separator are COATED to prevent corrosion and rust.


TJ, Thanks for the clarification. Per our discussion I felt it was the right thing to do to put the minds at ease for the Mega users.


On Edit: The Cat filter that would fit the Mega head is the IR0755 which makes the IR0749 look like a baby. Although a high efficiency filter like the IR0749 it has no separator and post seal which is why I like the Baldwin.Edited by: a bear

FirstDiesel,


In my clarification today I plainly stated that BlueOx3 was referring to a Baldwin brand OEM replacement fuel filter and not an oil filter as a bear had originally thought.


The lesson I have learned here is, irrespective of Baldwin's source - Baldwin has been shown to sell crap/rusting OEM fuel filter replacements.


Therefore it seems reasonable to advise caution when using Baldwin filters and to consider using rust/problem free CAT filters instead.

Have you ever thought about trying out for one of those A&W thick head commercials?

THE FILTER I HAD WITH RUST IS A BALDWIN BF7727 THE DIRECT OE REPLACEMENT, WHICH IS ACTUALLY A RACOR FILTER.

I've been researching secondary fuel filtration quite a bit over the last few months to decide from FACTS which set up was the best for me. I decided a couple of weeks ago, but I wanted to see my OEM first. Being that IMO the JK Mega is the best secondary filter kit, I mentioned that I would be calling JK the next day. I did call him and I ordered the Mega kit. The good feeling comment referred to an earlier post made by Kennedy "Makes a guy feel good knowing there's another filter after the OE Racor... "
When I said "Kinda hard to put any faith in something that's prebroke or prerusted as the case may be."
I was referring to the OE filter, not the Mega that I didn't even own yet.

I hope this makes it though and clears things up.

TJ

You cant blame Baldwin just for putting this filter in their box when they knew of no rust issues from Racors manufacturing process.





I disagree. The OEM filter is crap. It doesn't filter properly and it rusts-out. It appears that Baldwin is just passing along these filters, sight unseen. Baldwin should examine and test the products that bear the Baldwin name.


Does RACOR, or, some other outfit with widely varying quality of product from sample-to-sample, manufacture the high efficiency filters for Baldwin too.


In turn is Baldwin also just passing along this variance in all of it's products, sight unseen? Are we sure they are not of questionable quality from sample to sample like the Baldwin OEM replacment fuel filter?


All I am saying is, since Baldwin has been shown to have a lapse in QC, it is reasonable to use caution with the Baldwins.


Do you know which CAT fits the JK filter head? I recall that you once compared the Baldwin to the CAT 0750.

BlueOx03,


No need to get personal. FirstDiesel might have missed my original clarification in which I plainly stated that the rusty fuel filter that you were referring to is the Baldwin OEM replacement fuel filter, not an oil filter.

Case in point, I was refering to you. If you, and others, just read the whole post and the whole thread that it was in, you'd probably get it the first time.

I don't guess that these filters are leaving Baldwin, or Racor for that matter with the rust. I think it happens in storage. Here in New england there is a lot of humidity. Back to what I said in my first post on this, I think the WIF sensor port being open has a lot to do with this. IMO if they (Racor) just put shipping caps on the filters, this wouldn't be a problem. TTFN
TJ

That's why I posted your original words so there could be no confusion about what you originally said in the thread entitled, Inspection of Brand New Fuel Filters."


Good idea about the cap. Seal em up immediately. While they are at it, maybe they could also fix the filter so that it actually filters down to 2 micron! Save us a lot of extra money on secondary filtration.


Not to mention the possible damage to our fuel-cooled and lubricated injector pumps when some secondary filters set-ups cause the injector pumps to lose prime and go dry.


Good Luck!

All hydraulic components come with plugs and or caps to keep dirt and moisture out. Later! Frank http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

This is the reason why I prefer the Baldwin as compared to the Cat.


The Baldwin is also a water separator with a treated media and a drain to get rid of free water. The can is treated with a water shedding coating which aids to combat rust and corrosion. It has a large diameter lower spring which keeps the end plates in tack and compresses the upper post seal which also stops filings from getting to the clean side when engaugeing the threads and stops all channeling of unfiltered fuel through the threads. In short 100% of the fuel goes through the media.


Although the Cat is a good filter it lacks the water separator and has no post seal to protect the clean side from filings generated by engaugement. Also by not having the post seal an unknown amount of unfiltered fuel is allowed to channel through the threads in a spiral manner. (Especially after plugging starts) One must not forget that these filters tighten at the seal and not the threads. Without sealing off the threads some fuel and generated filings will pass there as it is the point of least resistance. If your setup is pre oem you may be OK but in liew of the OEM coming apart and rusting I'd hate to know that my OEM was my last line of defence. This is also the reason that Racor also has the threadless clean side design. A good theory indeed.


IMHO you get what you pay for.


Mr X said: I disagree. The OEM filter is crap. It doesn't filter properly and it rusts-out. It appears that Baldwin is just passing along these filters, sight unseen. Baldwin should examine and test the products that bear the Baldwin name.


Does that mean that you would require a post OEM filter. If so you better study the info posted above. A post seal on center threaded spin ons mean alot on a 23000 psi system. All it takes is a little trash and WHAM! Call the tow truck. Better go with a Mega or Racor. If you apologize to John he may sell you a Mega head so you can continue to use a CAT.Edited by: a bear

Apologize for what?


I never uttered any untruth statements about the Mega filter set-up. Even J. Bigeley admitted that the Mega set up could cause stalling and no starts AND that JK now informs custromers of this prior to purchase. But it is the loss of prime and the pump running dry that worries me the most.


For example, JK said that the Cummins VP44 injector pumps in Europe w/o lift pumps are failing far less often than the VP44's in the States with lift pumps.


This is due to the frequent failure of the lift pumps which causes the fuel cooled and lubed injector pumps to run dry and fail.


Thererfore, I would be real careful about adding anything on my truck that could cause my injector pump to lose prime or otherwise run dry.


A person would be cutting off his nose despite his face if he installed a post oem filter to protect from rust, but the filter loses prime and destroys the injector pump by causing it to run dry.


Especially when a little emulsifier additive like Primorose 405 could prevent rust, plus, help lube the injector pump and injectors and clean the fuel system.


Of course replacing their OEM filters, everyone should 1st ensure that their OEM replacement filters are free of rust/corrosion.

a bear,


glad to see that cleared up. at least we can all concentrate now on our crummy oem filter.. FWIW i looked at my 3 extra oem's which i've had for about a year and none have rust on them.. pretty low humidity here though..


blueox,


thanks for the clarification!


Mr. X,


i think its safe to say anyone that OEM's a stock filter from racor gets the same potential for rust. everyone is passing the crappy filter along with their own name. As george has stated, i doubt many of them even realize a a problem exists with the oem and rust. its probably a bean counter looking up the oem manufacturer, ordering some boxes and selling them as their own. cat doesn't do that because they could care less about our oem filter. i think the important thing to get out of this thread is that we need to ALL start calling racor, our delears, and anyone else that will listen.. Complain about the filter.. squeaky wheel gets the grease..


Lets relax on the personal stuff guys.. we found some really good info this week and lets put it to good use towards solving our problem.


Nick


NickEdited by: Diesel Power

earlier today I inspected my two spare Mega filters .... neither shows any signs of rust .... as stated several times, I have had a badly rusted OEM taken off of my truck and found similiar rust in one that I carried as a spare, I am most happy to have a Mega filter down stream from the OEM .... my only purpose in starting this type of thread was to alert folks to the possible need for them to consider Post-OEM filtration ... I have no interest in the brand someone may choose, any offering true 2 micron filtration would be better than none .... the fact that a few folks who post on these forums appear to have an axe to grind with the use of a Mega filter mystisifies me ... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif I'd expect this type of reaction if we were discussing correcting this problem by removing our D'maxes and replacing them with Power Strokes http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif but all this over a brand of fuel filter, as Spock would say, "Interesting, very interesting" http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifEdited by: JEBar

If we hold them all accountable, RACOR, Baldwin and other suppliers including the local vendor, there will be more voices demanding a fix.


JEBar,


I have stated many, many times that as far as I know the RACOR is the only filter installed post-oem postiin that has not caused problems. This leaves the Baldwin and the CAT which have been reported to cause no starts and stalls in the post-oem position.


Choose your poison!

Here we go again!!

Mr. X ..


"Choose your poison!" .... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif I have and am very happy with that choice ... am also genuinely glad to hear others (no matter what that choice may be) when they can say the same http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


First Diesel ..


"Here we go again!!" .... Understood http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif and having said the above, for me this is the end of this trip http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif .... Jim


... JimEdited by: JEBar

Maybe the Racor doesn't restrict as much which could mean it doesn't filter as well.

Or the head design doesn't allow air entrapment.

I have no idea if or any of the above is th ecase.

Mr. X. if you are going to promote Racor, give us some facts that you, yourself, have come up with for a change.

I run the Racor post OEM and am not afraid to judge it if need be.

Apologize for what?


I never uttered any untruth statements about the Mega filter set-up. Even J. Bigeley admitted that the Mega set up could cause stalling and no starts AND that JK now informs custromers of this prior to purchase. But it is the loss of prime and the pump running dry that worries me the most.


For example, JK said that the Cummins VP44 injector pumps in Europe w/o lift pumps are failing far less often than the VP44's in the States with lift pumps.


This is due to the frequent failure of the lift pumps which causes the fuel cooled and lubed injector pumps to run dry and fail.


Thererfore, I would be real careful about adding anything on my truck that could cause my injector pump to lose prime or otherwise run dry.


A person would be cutting off his nose despite his face if he installed a post oem filter to protect from rust, but the filter loses prime and destroys the injector pump by causing it to run dry.


Especially when a little emulsifier additive like Primorose 405 could prevent rust, plus, help lube the injector pump and injectors and clean the fuel system.


Of course replacing their OEM filters, everyone should 1st ensure that their OEM replacement filters are free of rust/corrosion.








Ha-ha, Ha-ha, Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha, ha-ha...


You guys ended up with him!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

I have had a post Mega on my truck for apprpx. 20K now and bled air out when I first installed it. I soon quit bleeding the air and have not done so for at least 10K. I have had no stalling issues ever, however I did remove all the junk QD splices. I feel better knowing I am running cleaner fuel although I do not feel I gained any MPG's.

Kennedy---WELCOME, The majority of us respect your opinion and advice. Thanks for joining this great site.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

JK - good to see you here - I know you have a lot of good 'stuff' to share with us

Hoot,

Just reprting what I've heard about the problem of no starts/stallng with the post-oem Mega filter and CAT filters. But didn't Bigeley state lift pumps could solve those problems.

Trouble is how many times can the injection pump tolerate running dry? Kennedy is the Mega filter, lift pump expert.

Since we have not seen any good fuel filtatin results from a post-oem RACOR, the post-RACOR very well could have those difficiencies you mentioned.

What I can tell you from first hand experience is my truck runs just as smooth as smooth can be with the Nictane pre-oem filter and Primrose 405.

Never even a hiccup since installed it about 1,700 miles ago. Are you saying that I should not refer to the experts when answering a queston from another member?

Kennedy,

Welcome aboard. Your posse has been waitin for you!

Are you saying that, unlike the Cummins VP44 injector pump, it is OK to let our injector pumps run dry like when stalling or if a failed lift pump cuts off fuel flow?

JK ... good to see you over here ... Jim

I've noticed a common thread in most of the technical posts on this forum, a common resource. The funny thing is, it's the same resource that gets whined about the most. I'm sure the technical guys behind most of those technical posts and articles all come here time to time to get a good laugh. I hope you guys never learn how to read an entire post or article, then you might get the facts strait and it wouldn't be as funny. Man this place makes me roll!

Hey X, who wrote that article on the MEGA? Did ya make it past the title? XYZPDQ don't wanna let somethin' else out!

Looks like I win the bet He found the stick

JK wrote:


"Ha-ha, Ha-ha, Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha, ha-ha...


You guys ended up with him!"


JK,http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4_6_8.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001)


No disrespect intended, but if you're posting here now too, haven't you "ended up" with him too?


2DAMAX








http://www.smileycentral.com/sigpc=ZSzeb005 (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb005)

Just replying to these nice and friendly posts. Don't I have the right to ask questions of these experts too?

BlueOx03,

For example, your technical jargon in your post about the rust spots on the Baldwin fuel filter really had us confused.

In fact, it took 3 or 4 members on 2 different sites, and multiple posts, to clarify just what you were talking about.

Anywy, good luck with your new Mega filter set-up. Now that we have Kennedy here, he can explain all about lift pumps, needle vaves, pre-lift pump filters and oil pressure switches just case you need them.

BTW I heard that some guys are even installng two lift just in case one goes down there's a back-up so your injection pump will not be starved for fuel and run dry.

As for me, I'll just stick to my completely trouble free pre-oem CAT mounted with the Nictane filter bracket.

DMAX2DMAX,

Kennedy should be highly flattered by most of my posts. He is my most often quoted expert.

I am sincerely lookng forward to the infusion of his expertise into the discussion of diesels on this site.

Kennedy..............


Dont bend over!


I am also glad to see you herehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


You bring a lot to the forum!





Edited by: RanaExcavating1

Hey X, which filter setup just set the best 2 mic results. Why it was a mega with a lift pump and oil pressure switch. I am glad you are happy with your 2 filters, I am happy with my 2 primary filters, lift pump and mega. I can only hope I get as good of results, tested yours yet?

Pre-oem CAT mounted on Nictane bracket tested well witin the parameters set by George Morrison for safe fuel. And guess what?

No need for a lift pump!

OO-RAH!

I've noticed a common thread in most of the technical posts on this forum, a common resource. The funny thing is, it's the same resource that gets whined about the most. I'm sure the technical guys behind most of those technical posts and articles all come here time to time to get a good laugh. I hope you guys never learn how to read an entire post or article, then you might get the facts strait and it wouldn't be as funny. Man this place makes me roll!

Hey X, who wrote that article on the MEGA? Did ya make it past the title? XYZPDQ don't wanna let somethin' else out!

I'm guilty of using "other" sources. Always have. I also have my own experiences and know how. Anything I personally posted anywhere else is my knowledge and experience. Same with so many other members here.

Naturally you will see similar postings on all the sites. We are many of the same people, talking about the same things.

Check out the "Do It Yourself and Useful Articles" forum.

Edited by: hoot

X, nice to know you have faith. I do like the lift pump for other reasons, I didn't need to install it, the mega was doing fine by itself. It was kinda fun actually.


I am not trying to flame you, just wanted to know if you tested. I haven't so I am going on faith to!


Pat.

I'm not saying that it's not good to use proven references or that it's not good to share info from other sources, quite to the contrary. It's very good to share good info no mater where you get it. What I'm seeing is that members are quoting info from and commenting on info primarily from the "other forum" as you guys call it. Then the next thing ya know the same guys are bagging on (in one case pissing on) the same source. There seems to also be a problem with getting your facts strait. I'm not saying that everyone does this, but there are posts where members have completely mixed up the facts that they are commenting on. If you read a post and don't get it, try reading the whole thread. If you still doesn’t understand email or PM the member that posted the info in question. I think 9 outa 10 times you'll get it if you just read the post and whole thread.


I'm not saying that this is a bad forum. I think this is a good forum with great features. I really like the PM feature. Like I've already said, some people need to get their facts straight before the start blasting something.


x, I didn't have really any technical jargon in my original post. The confusion came from a brand name. Just because I said Baldwin, you, with help, made it into a problem with the Mega set up. What's so technical about saying I checked a Baldwin brand OE replacement filter in a thread on rusted OE filters? Baldwin makes a lot more filters besides the one used with the Mega kit. Read the post, read the thread and you should get it the first time. If you're going to refer to an article, at least get it strait who wrote the article.


TJ

[/url]All,


Time out! [url="http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001"]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/512.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001)


I also have a great deal of respect for JK and what he brings to The Diesel Place. In fact, I for one have learned much about my old 6.2 from his TDP posts . Among other things his sharing of his knowledge &amp; experience has helped me in deciding to stick with diesels and ulimately to getting my Dmax. That is why I prefaced my comment with "No disrespect intended..."


Actually I was hoping to hear him say that he is indeed with us here at The Diesel Place! Let's hope so! That would be a good thing! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/39.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001) Besides, wouldn't his or anyone else's being welcome here be all about what the Diesel Place is supposed to be all about in the first place?

2DAMAX



http://www.smileycentral.com/sigpc=ZSzeb005 (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb005)

Besides, wouldn't his or anyone else's being welcome here be all about what the Diesel Place is supposed to be all about in the first place?

2DAMAX


All, even John Kennedy http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif, with good intention are welcome. That is what The Diesel Place is all about. Edited by: hoot

To All,


I think the objective here is to give everyone here an opportunity to get help from others members mistakes or good fortune.


Keep the info rolling!


Rana

BlueOx03,

Your original post was not clear, even incontext with the whole thread. I am not the only one who was confused by your wording. For example, a bear thought you may have referring to an oil filter.

These questions are exactly why I asked a bear to check out your rusty Baldwin filter story. At that time I did not believe you were a member here so I coud not shoot you a PM and turned to a bear for help in clarifying the matter.

In sum, contrary to your insinuation that we were twisting facts, we made an honest effort to get to te bottom of your story - and we did.
The matter has been clarified/settled.

This topic is about fuel filters. If you want to post about your dislike of Mr X's messages, then allow me to suggest that you start a new topic at the War Room.

BTW JK is far more expert than me in diesel relate matters and could easily correct any mistaken facts that I have quoted from him.

The main thing is to get the diesel-relatd info, the good, and even the bad and the ugly, on record so that EVERYONE can benefit and enjoy greater performance/service life/reliability from their trucks.

MrX said


These questions are exactly why I asked a bear to check out your rusty Baldwin filter story. At that time I did not believe you were a member here so I coud not shoot you a PM and turned to a bear for help in clarifying the matter.


BlueOx03,


Just to set the record straight. The reason I contacted you was to assure myself that the Mega filter wasn't the filter in question. MrX did ask me to check this out but it was not by his request that I contacted you. It was for information as I stated in the e-mail and to put any misconceptions to rest that were being posted by MrX himself and at the request of another member. There are a lot of Mega(Baldwin) filter users here and I just wanted to be sure the info was accurate far all. I would have been concerned if the Mega filter I run would have had rust issues.


MrX,


Please refrain from using my name in any of your posts. I don't like my statements to be sectioned off in pieces in order to promote an argument on your behalf. Not to be taken the wrong way but you have a knack for taking what you need and leaving the rest. I'm done with these arguments and would rather have my name left out when being used for the purposes of the same.


Tommy
Edited by: a bear

I think the objective here is to give everyone here an opportunity to get help from others members mistakes or good fortune.





Can some of you pick up your share of the mistakes part? I have had cup seals, injectors and now tranny problems. I don't mind being the test dummy sometimes, but jeesh, http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gif some of you are not carrying your share. It's like those crazy relatives, one in every family, some are not taking their fare share of them either if you look at my family. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

SS396,

If there were lift pumps out there with proven reliability, I'd consider putting one on my truck too. Otherwise I feel it is intoducing weak link.

I went for the CAT after Nick's test results showed it to have the best oem/secodary combination filtration to-date, well within safe parameters.

a bear,

Your accusation that I have intentionally misquoted you, or anyone else, is another untruth. Are you now saying that you did not state that BlueOx03 was probably referring to a Baldwin oil filter? Plus, you have uttered an additional untruth that someone asked me to say anything about the Baldwin filter.

BlueOx03 plainly said he had a rusty Baldwin filter in the "Page" thread entitled, "Inspection of Brand New Fuel Filters."

I refuse to surrender my right to quote or to paraphrase public forum internet content - including that originating from you - in my messages.

For example, if I did waive this right, then how would I be able to expose your untrue utterances and/or defend myself against these like the untruths above about me?

Do you really think that you should have the right to defame folks with utter impunity? Even on the intenet we should conduct ourselves in a just/fair manner.

OK First Diesel and geno,

Lets hear how these untruths are all my fault as if I initiated all of a bear and BlueOx03's accusations against myself.

Sheesh!

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="100%"><T>
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<TD class=bold width="20%" background="" bgColor=#f8f7ef><A name=3749></A>Mr X</TD>
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<TD class=smText noWrap>Posted: 12 September 2003 at 10:51pm | IP Logged | Report Post (http://dieselplace.com/forum/report_post.asp?PID=3749&amp;FID=7&amp;TID=455&amp;TPN=1) </TD></TR></T></T></TABLE></TD></TR>
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<TD class=smText vAlign=top width="20%" bgColor=#fefefc>http://dieselplace.com/forum/avatars/stone_face.jpg
Groupie!
http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_images/2_star_rating.gif

Group: Groupie!
Joined: 02 September 2003
Location: California
Posts: 157 </TD>
<TD class=text vAlign=top background="" bgColor=#fefefc>


I broke the rules for using profanity. The consequence is that in order to maintain the discipline necessary for a good site, and to be fair, I must leave.


Adios!</TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>


Based on this post you should know everything there is to say about TRUTH. Does this leave the door open for anyone to break the rules. I guess I can also practice my legal right per your own words below.


By MrX: I refuse to surrender my right to quote or to paraphrase public forum internet content - including that originating from you - in my messages.


Guess that makes this post OK! This is usually about the time you come back with a different subject or try to bend things around.
Edited by: a bear

He definitely found the stick- the bucket is starting to smell already


Geno

Always does, but then it's our fault. We attack him!! Andf he never lies! Just cries a lot. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

a bear,

I did leave in self-exile for awhile and only reappeared when invited. It's called self-discipline. Haven't you ever excersized self-discipline?

I guess not in view of still another a bear untruth. Seems we may be starting to see a compulsive untruth pattern here.

BTW who was this mystery person who asked me to post a misception about BlueOx03's rusty Baldwin fuel filter?

No one intentionally advanced any misinformation. In fact I asked you to check it out.

To the contrary, your opinion that BlueOx03 was referring to an oil filter was the farthest from the truth than anyone!

FirstDiesel,

Have you ever posted a diesel-related message?

Geno,

Go back and se who started stirring the old personal cheap shot stink bucket.

It wasn't me.

But I reserve the right to defend myself when chep shots are fired my way.

It's only fair. Don't you think?

Anyway, for the sake of harmony on this site. I shall turn the other cheek to you lttle cheap shot snipes.

C'mon gentlemen let's talk diesels!

Man this gets old. Don't you ever get tired of playing the poor wounded picked on keeper of the truth!!!





And yes I post diesel posts without requoting otherr people. Try it sometime!!

Larry


I am on your side, when I want to learn about diesel I have to go to the other one, and when I want amusement I come here. I say do away with all the he quoted this and that B.S. and get to what the page was implemented for. Thats why I am here is to learn and not to argue. If I have a problem I will post otherwise I read and try to learn, but then some a$$ comes along and stirs the bucket. Later Geno

There's no hope for Mr X. I think it's the world's fault. I wish someone would realize thats it's always just a matter of time before he strikes again.


Edited by: a bear

Why don't you guys stay on topic an quit nit picking with each other. I thought this was a filter thread and not a shooting match.

Why don't you guys stay on topic an quit nit picking with each other. I thought this was a filter thread and not a shooting match.





I agree !


The removal of one problem member should solve the problem.

Here we go again..... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif

You're right let's get back on track. first things first, I apologize for turning this post into "a shooting match". That doesn't mean that I didn't mean or that I tack back the things I said. I just realize now that I should've taken it outside ie PM, War Room. I always come out swinging when called out, this time in the wrong place. Learning from mistakes was mentioned somewhere along the line. I hope you guys out there learned from mine as I have...take it outside...here you have that option. I hope you also learded from others mistakes. If you don't get a post, read it again, read the thread, ask questions, don't jump to conclutions. These things are bound to happen, but I hope we can all learn from our mistakes and maybe even get along.

I'm going to start a new thread here entitaled OEM Fuel Filter Concerns. This whole forum is supposed to be about freash starts, let's give this thread one.

TJ

It's hard to keep things on track when you have to constantly wade through the swamp full of quotes and misquotes and try to figure it out.


I for one would love a post to finfish without it being muddy up with the constant "truths" spoken by Mr. X.


abear had a simple request. Don't quote me. Seems he feels this is a violation of his rights.


Edited by: FirstDiesel

If someone were to go back to pages 1 and 2 of this thread it would be real easy to see where the trouble originates around here. I have stated more than once that I was done with this but he evidently loves to keep the bucket stirred. I think it's becoming evident that a slap on the hand is not helping.

http://www.uscom.com/~hoot/misc/smileys/machinegun.gifhttp://www.uscom.com/~hoot/misc/smileys/smiling.gif





Sorry..... I couldn't help myself.

Mr. X The above gif image is my unprofessional way
of telling you to get off the rant. We are trying to have a
decent dialog about the subject at hand. You seem to not
understand the meaning of cease and dissist. Your history
is working against you.
Now is the time to make the big decision because it certainly is our time.Edited by: hoot

About time to close this one too.


Jess

What was the question? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif I forgot now. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


Has anyone tried one of the vacuum packing sealers like you can get at Wal-Mart? I have one for deer processing, but I guess it could work for moisture control. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

I'm gonna store mine in one of these.....
http://www.stainless-steel-tank-pipe.com/images/stainless_tank.jpg

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif You going to keep it in the back of the truck? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif You going to keep it in the back of the truck? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

No room for any more big tanks http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

Hoot,


I've already turned the other cheek. And that was after repeatedly pleading with others to refraim from getting personal and to focus on diesel issues.


I did not call anyone an a$$, or, a cheerleader,or otherwise state defaming untruths like the others who have attacked me in this thread. Who is ranting? Isn't this use of a double standard?


Why are you resurrecting this after I have already announced that I have turned the other cheek for the sake of harmony on the site?


Why instigate more?

X


Let it lay


Geno

Tell Hoot! I already had last night!

I have been on vacation the last couple days and it looks like I didn't miss anything constructive. Would anyone like to ask me a question. Later! Frank http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

I have been on vacation the last couple days and it looks like I didn't miss anything constructive. Would anyone like to ask me a question. Later! Frank http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


Have a nice trip??? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif ... Jim

Do anything exciting ?


Geno

There is a place or should I say page where most all of the parties involved can post without x or hb but its a shame to have to do that......this is a great topic filled with information learned form real people who have experimented with different filters and locations but its gets hard to follow when you have to weigh in the x factor. Free and open is a great thing but sometimes it sucks in a case like this.......for the record. I have a fm 100 lift pump with a 5 micron pre lift pump filter and a 2 micron post lift pump both installed on the frame rail near the fuel cooler for more than 10k miles with no issues. my pump is set for 4 psi preoem filter. I do have two bypass valves the would allow the return to stock situation if needed (takes about 1 minute and it works)...I am very concerned about rust in the factory filter however with the installation of my lift pump, that filter is now completely full of diesel instead of partially full with the factory setup any water in the system should be caught in the first filter(the 5 micron) and can be visually seen and drained if needed. If the factory filter is free from rust at installation it should remain that way with my setup.......dave

Had a great trip. My truck pulled all the hills in OD. 10.6 MPG round trip towing into wind most of the way. My new BFG 265 didn't seem to change my power band. Love this truck. Didn't do anything exciting but great weather to just bum around. Now! What was the original question? Later! Frank

If everyone would stick to the topic, FILTERS, instead of HOW MUCH I HATE MR X, then there would not be any off topic BS fouling up this thread!


I've already invited the malcontents to do their dumping in the War Room instaed of fouling up this thread. And I've already turned the other cheek to those who won't.


Not much more I can do to prevent anymore off topic personal infectum spewing at me! If you don't like off topic remarks than don't make them for cripesakes!

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


Let's see how long it lasts.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif





Jess

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif &gt; http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif &gt; http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif +http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif =http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif + http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif = http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif

Larry


I am on your side, when I want to learn about diesel I have to go to the other one, and when I want amusement I come here. I say do away with all the he quoted this and that B.S. and get to what the page was implemented for. Thats why I am here is to learn and not to argue. If I have a problem I will post otherwise I read and try to learn, but then some a$$ comes along and stirs the bucket. Later Geno








Kinda what I was thinking...

Just to sent the record strait and keep any undue crap from heading Larry, firstdiesel's way, I was the one who said the page is "tech" and the place is a "laugh".
I think with all that has and will happen, even with better forum features, remember this one is just a forum at the present time, rules are a necessary evil. Without rules Chaos with reign!

TJ

SS396,

OK First Diesel and geno,

Lets hear how these untruths are all my fault as if I initiated all of a bear and BlueOx03's accusations against myself.

Sheesh!


This is your idea of turning the other cheek??? There were no comments made about you by me in this post until you started. You start and then cry that your being attacked.


I'm done here and done with you.





BlueOx03


Thanks for the clarification, actually the quote was from Geno answering me!


Sure would be nice if we could finish a thread here without this stuff. Seems we can'thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

Check the thread. There is only one person that keeps starting the crap up in the veil of the truth. Problem is that he keeps quoting others experience, not his, and is making second had judgments. I will take first hand experience every time. And it is the same thing over and over and over and over and over. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif

I have four kids, and when they would continue to argue about the same thing, on and on and on, I would ask them, if one of you stops talking, there cannot be a fight. Unless, of course there is a very loud echo.


I am new to trucks and diesels. I think I bought the best, and have come here, and TDP to learn about my truck/engine. I rely on others who have the experience and knowledge to learn.


NOW, if everybody that is not talking about filters will just stop talking, we can all learn.


MTCW

This subject is in need of some new revelations. If you don't like what MR.X has to say than ignore his posts. Or you can run to the "shelter" of the heavy site.

We could start censoring people for talking too much. If that happened I'd be outta here. Lets be realistic.

We are in a gray area when it comes to which setups extend injection system life the longest.

I personally want one that suppliments the existing filter and has no side effects. The CAT and Racor setups so far have done this.

I also like the one the fellow did where he recirculates his tank fuel through a filter.

And finally you have the super backwoods engineered lift pump, pressure-bled "systems" that not only adress the filtering issue but also cure the air problem. I believe these setups will do the best job because you can use a super filter and you also get loose air out of the system.

All in all, they all make a difference in particle count going into the injection system. After all, that is the final goal.

I would like to see articles put up in the FYI section on the different setups. When someone chooses their poison, they can find out everything they need to know in the article about that particular setup.

It's time to move from argueing about which one is best, to sharing each other's discoveries in a more formalized form.

At the NE Getogether this weekend, there was little talk about filtration. We had more fun laughing about everything that's happened lately with this site and telling personal stories. I didn't have my truck there so it was kinda nice looking and listening to everybody elses trucks and stories. What's my point? It's fun talking about this stuff.....but arguing about the same thing over and over gets real old. Right Mr. X?




Edited by: hoot

Here's another twist in the world of fuel filtration. How about a way to filter the fuel as you are pumping into the tank at the gas station? Some sort of adaptor that fits on the fuel spout? Biggest problem I can forsee, that may be insurmountable, is the cutoff, and keeping the back pressure from detaching the filtering unit from the nozzle. For all I know state laws may even prohibit this entire idea. Just a thought.

Some of the fuel stations I fill up at, has a filter attached to the pump, that filters the fuel before it goes in the truck tank. I have looked at it very close, but can't tell what micron filter it is, but this has got to be better than the pumps without the filter. Next time I fill up at the station, I'll get the name and number of the filter and maybe someone here can tell me the micron it is filtering at the pump.

Unless the pump filter is enormous I doubt it is very efficient. Fuel comes out of a pump nozzle pretty fast, say 6 gallons per minute. That's 360 gallons per hour. I think the fuel filter in the Duramax, for comparison, is rated for around 48 gallons per hour or somewhere in that ballpark.


Thus, the idea, while inspired, may not be practical.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Broken Heart.gif

What would you do with that filter after your done filling the tank?? Nice diesel soaked unit to try to store somewhere in the truck??


As for the pumps with filters on them! I'm happy when I see them on the pump I'm using but in most cases I don't count on them for any real filtration. They usually look like they have been there 3 years!!


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

k1xv--- Yea you are probably right,http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Broken Heart.gif it is about as big a the mega filter, but they do date it when they change it and it looks like they change the filter about every three weeks. Date is maked right on the filter with a perm-a- mark pin.

Regarding diesel fuel tank filters installed at the dispensers of truck stops. Very early on in a truck stop manager's career, one learns that fuel flows *much* faster when the fuel filter element is removed. Plus, the fuel filter never needs changed!! Nothing gets to a truck stop manager more than trucks backed up at fuel islands. No filter innards, much faster flow, no trucks waiting to fuel, Ka Ching!!!


So, many of those rusty looking fuel filters you see have indeed been on the pumps for ages and are not on the change schedule, ever! Real, operating fuel filter elements need to be changed regularly; even the '10 micron nominal' Cimtek filters!


And yes, it is wonderful putting 12/10/8 diesel fuel IN one's Duramax; that is what my diesel Supreme tested recently.. Makes OEM filtration work a little easier, indeeed.


That said, I have worked for several years to try and develop a filtration device that would enable filtration going IN to the fuel tank from the dispenser. However, the auto-shutoff cannot be fooled.


The other option would be a funnel type fillter; however, without the nozzle pressure, filtering through an even 5 mircron beta 200 via gravity/funnel type arrangement takes too much time.. (yes, we did the experiment) We need some level of pressure to get flow through even with 100% synthetic, relatively low restriction medium.


George Morrison, STLE CLSEdited by: Georgecls