I had read other posts, about Total Power causing rough idle/poor mileage, and since I had been experiancing the same symptoms, I decided to try a tank without any additives. Idle smoothed out almost imediately, and DIC show approximately 2mpg increase.





Anyone have a theory on why such a highly regarded additive make the engine run poorly?





Got maybe eight bottles I'll sell cheap!!! Not going to run it anymore.

I've been running a combination 1 to 1 of Total Power & Cetane boost (2oz. /10 gal), year round, for a little over 1 year, and have had no problems whatsoever (completely stock motor) . . . . but I am becoming a little concerned, as this seems to be an issue that more & more people are experiencing http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif.

jeephauler-


I had the same problem as well with Total Power, except for the fuel mileage problem. There is someone else on this board that reported the same thing, however can't remember his name. It took me a while to figure it out as I started using Total Power the same time as I installed the Nicktane kit. I tried everything I could think of wondering if the filter kit was the problem or if I had an air leak or something. It wasn't until I read another members post stating Total Power was making hi DMAX run rough. Luckily I didn't buy a case, I bought one from a local member here in Colorado to try.


After about a tank or two without adding Total Power my dmax smoothed back out, then I put it in for another tank and it was instantly running rougher with brake pedal vibration as well. After another two tanks without Total Power, it started running smooth again. Not sure what it is, but my dmax doesn't like Total Power. I might try Primrose, or Power Service (not favored here, but is on the Ford and Dodge pages). Crazy, huh??


Bob

I experienced the same and am holding onto my inventory until summer fuel is avail and try it again ~ then see whats happening

I had the same with my DMAX and Total Power. In addition to rough idle, my engine was also noisier when entering freeways (moderate accelleration). It all went away once I stopped using Total Power. I like the idea of extra lubricity for the pump, and will most likely try Stanadyne next. I know there are good arguments to not use Stanadyne because it demulsify's. My concern is that GM has made their position very clear on additives, and they specifically recommend against products the emulsify.

I too have experienced a loss in mileage since I have been using FPPF products (5 miles per gallon to be exact). I switched back to Power Service. I know a lot of you don't like PS, but my truck sure seems to like it and it is a Demulsifier. That's probably the ownly thing I have done to satisfy GM.

I bought several bottles of FPPF POLAR POWER and something weird happned. The polar power comes in a totally black bottle and it's impossible to guage, so I calibrated a diet coke bottle and left it outdoors on a -22 below night. It clouded and definately thickned in concentrate form! This stuff is supposed to keep my fuel from gelling????http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

No problems with Primrose 405. I don't leave home without it.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Smell fppf......
Then smell stanadyne-primrose and all the others.

Fppf smells like paint stripper. Primrose smells like unscented soap. I took one whiff of the fppf and said no way.....

Aaaaahhhhh, smell, the best way to judge a good additive. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

thats how i tell if my diesel is fresh or not http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif

I had the same with my DMAX and Total Power. In addition to rough idle, my engine was also noisier when entering freeways (moderate accelleration). It all went away once I stopped using Total Power. I like the idea of extra lubricity for the pump, and will most likely try Stanadyne next. I know there are good arguments to not use Stanadyne because it demulsify's. My concern is that GM has made their position very clear on additives, and they specifically recommend against products the emulsify.





Wondering if the ruffness is due to the use of an emulsifier moving previously demulsified water thru the system?

I am amazed at what I learn here!


I started using Total Power in early January and my MPG dropped from 16.5 to 15ish. Thought it was the cold weather at first. Switched 2 tanks ago and I'm slowly climbing back up towards 16+. Also noticed a rough idle and this weird rattling sound at 3000RPM's just before each shift. After reading this thread and driving the truck I realize that has all gone away now.


One question - the Total Power I bought was concentrated (8 ounces to treat 120-240 gallons) and it calculates out to only needing to use 1 ounce or so per 20 gallons. Could too much additive somehow dillute the fuel and cause these issues?


Fred G

I have not used FPPF but I looked at it's ingredients and I am not really sure why FPPF would cause a rough idle and such a noticable drop in fuel mileage.


It around 40% petroleum distillate, 30% Glycol ether, 2% naptha and 1% Trimethylbenzine. The only ingredient that is way higher in FPPF than other diesel fuel addittive formulas I've researched is the Glycol ether. Other products usually run only about a 5-7% Glycol derivative.


A glycol ether is a solvent and a liquid flow improver. It also is the ingredient that is a coupling agent for water. So it's cleaning your fuel system, improving the flow of the fuel and couples the water with your fuel so it is burned in your engine.


I am not a chemist, so I therefor do not claim to be an authority on this. The only thing I would guess is that it is somehow lowering the Cetain #.


I am not pro or con as to whether you should use FPPF. I am just listing the ingredients and what they are suppose to do.


I use Stanadyne Performance formula. I find in cold weather the truck actually runs smoother, smokes way less at extreme cold start ups and start very easy.

Total Power contains a cetane booster in addition to the other things you mentioned.


I run 8 ounces of Total Power mixed 1 to 1 with the cetane boost and average 17.7 mpg on the highway.Thats running empty at 65 to 75 mph.(8 oz total per 26 gal tank)


Hard for me to believe that the FPPF is causing a mileage loss and rough running.


How much are you guys adding per tank?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

The majority (myself included) of the Total Power users will see the exact opposite of what some are reporting. Unless one were to run a trial over several tanks of fuel with known quality base fuel, I'd chock it up to a fluke, OR some form of a conflict with the source fuel.





I've had customers with lopy idle (RPCV going bad) run TP and minimize/eliminate the lope for quite some time. Once it started creeping back in, TP was discontinued and the lope worsened enough to get warranty service performed.





TP has been in every tank of fuel in my Dmax since new, and will continue until I find something better...

Kennedy,


Good points, I always fill at the same Shell station using their premium diesel (only choice), unless out of the area on a trip. My runs both with and without FPPF where made using the same Shell station. I have no idea if there is some type of conflict with Shell premium diesel and FPPF. Hopefully this doesn't turn into another UNI thread... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

<DIV>Fluke, I don't think so. I have been experiencing rough idle and poor mileage for some time (months). It was only after reading other posts at this site which prompted me to stop using TP. The first thing I noticed, with a full tank of untreated diesel, was smoother idle, and increased MPG. How is this a fluke when other posters have reported the same thing? I will not stop using additives, but will not continue to use TP. It is clear, that at least my Dmax, does not like it.</DIV>

i have been running FPPF for 15K, and recently ordered some primrose 405. i make several 400 mile runs every month and will test the difference in mileage and idle. I had noticed a little rattle but thought (may still think) it was due to colder temperatures here.


marc

I used Total Power the previous two winters with no problems. My local dealer was out so I bought a bottle of Power Service. I started using it back in early Oct. About the middle of Oct. my mileage starting going south along with the bottom end performance. I could have blamed it on the Power Service but I have run a lot of it in the past. I have a good friend it the bulk fuel business. He said because of the colder than normal weather the refineries were blending too much #1 to prevent problems. The weather would warm for a week and they would change their ratio. There ain't no way that you will get the same fuel two weeks in a row this time of year unless your retailer isn't selling much. I fuel at my friend's truck stop. He hauls his own fuel 5-6 days a week. My mileage will be down two or three tanks and back up 3 MPG. I have keep a spreadsheet on every tank for over 41K miles. I haven't seen anything like this before. Later! Frank

Total Power contains a cetane booster in addition to the other things you mentioned.


You're right! Sorry I left that out. I looks like pretty good stuff. That's why I couldn't understand the negative posts.

There are too many posting problems for it to be a fluke. I'll agree that there could be some kind of conflict with the fuel (winter additives?). I've not run it with summer fuel, although in my case, I probably won't use it again. This is a very noticable problem that can be duplicated each time I add TP. So far, I've only noticed the complaint coming from '03 owners. Could there be something with the '03 models?

........... So far, I've only noticed the complaint coming from '03 owners. Could there be something with the '03 models?


Hardly ~ I've an 02 ~ the engs are the same ~

Have been running Total Power added to every tank in my '02 for the last 15,000 miles ... truck runs good, no problems of any type


Jim

I have been using TP since day one and have had none of these issues, live in a warmer climate but some have had gelling problems when it got down in the teens. Makes me wonder maybe Ill do a tank to see if mileage comes up, couldn't ask for smoother running engine tho.


Im Confusedhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

.......... I have a good friend it the bulk fuel business. He said because of the colder than normal weather the refineries were blending too much #1 to prevent problems. The weather would warm for a week and they would change their ratio. There ain't no way that you will get the same fuel two weeks in a row this time of year unless your retailer isn't selling much. I fuel at my friend's truck stop. ... I haven't seen anything like this before. Later! Frank


Sounds good to me ~ thats why I want to try it w/summer fuel - to see if the rough idle would return.


FWIW, my experience was in the SW (trip thru AZ, NM, TX). It was ok during the cold snap (12 - 29* @ nite. Kinfolk had experienced -1* at the grand canyon and sno in vegas at that time) but noticed the problem 10days later on the return trip when it wasn't as cold but think the treated fuel was in the pipeline by then and I was adding to it. Mileage was disappointing but noticed the rough idle at Mohave. Dropped the FPPF and the rest of the fillups were in CA. Mileage increase apprx 3mpg. Edited by: ShumDit

My theory - fuel dealers buy winter blend fuel (#1 plus #2) when it starts to get real cold and as alway wait to the last minute, they add the winter blend to the stock (bulk) tank which has a warmer weather blend (#2) of fuel, now as time goes on the fuel becomes diluted with additional winter blend as more of the cold weather - winter goes along. This is probably the lower fuel milage and rough idle some are now experiencing. As all winter blend fuel. Now as the warmer weather comes along we will see the reverse trend as the warmer fuel (#2) come into the supply line and storage though it does lag behind in useage. Some of these bulk storage tanks are quite large and do not turn over very rapidly, much less the dealer underground storage tanks too. Now we also have to consider the pipeline too as there are many gallons of fuel to the mile of pipeline. (a 12" pipeline has 31000 gal/mile) Ah yes and you guys always thought you were getting fresh fuel! Many of these storage tanks are in million gallon capacity and they do not turn over very fast. Some of the largest storage tanks at the suppliers are about 150,000 gal.


Oh! back to the subject of FPPF, I use the same mix as Kennedy and no problems, though I am using Certfied soybean B2 biodiesel.


Sorry just an engineer rambling on!


Engineer Bill

I've been using FPPFsince my truck was new. I now have 11,000 miles with no problems.

I may be coming off to the guy's in the know as off my rocker...but I've been using this stuff from Discount call Power Clean or something to that effect which is a combo cetane boost as well as conditioner and lubricator. It's $4.88 a bottle you add in 8oz to a tank and my truck has been running great. Haven't done any comparison on if it's better with our without, but doesn't have any negative effect on idle or any of the problems I've read in this post. Just my two pretty pennys





Mark

Bill, You must be an ME http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif to come up with 31,021 gallons per mile. Our refineries are only 75 miles away in SLC. We are lucky. Our fuel is only a few days old at most. Later! Frank

Guys take it FWIW, that GOOD additives will NOT degrade performance. Fuel conditions vary, as well as other variables. Ever notice how your performance exhaust or intake roar is louder on some days than others?


The detergents in the additive COULD start gnawing away at deposits and begin to free up some injector spray holes or lubricity could make the injectors work more smoothly. Any time there is a change, the ECM revises the balance rate gradually over time. Could be freeing up deposits in the system and planting them in your filters. It sure as hell isn't hurting things...





Dunno what else to say, but I run Total Power in ALL fuel, and the only place that I wil pour Power Service is in my drain oil bin...

Been using Total Power and Cetane Boost for 15k no problems. I also run rather high mixtures. 10oz of tp and almost 20 oz of boost per tank. I'll be cutting back after winter to save some money.


Jason