I am trying Biodiesel for the first time.
Yesterday evening I filled up with B99. With the petro-diesel already in the tank I should be running about a B75 mix. So far the only difference I notice is the exhaust smells different than petro-diesel.

Are there any things that I should be watching for? What should I be paying attention to when watching for possible biodiesel-related problems?


The biodiesel supplier here in Austin uses fresh soy oil - not recycled. Price right now is competitive with petro-diesel.

Also... I normally run a cetane and lubricity additive. I understand that these are not needed with biodiesel. True?

Watch out for filter clogging due to the detergent nature of BIO. You are correct, you don't need those two additives with BIO.

HB,

Are you noticing drop in MPG?

Are you noticing a drop in power/performance?

should quiet the engine down a little too

Get a sample of the fuel in a clear container and observe it at different temps. You want it to be clear.

Ive run B80 a lot, and have not noticed a drop in mileage or power. I was suprised.

HB,

Are you noticing drop in MPG?

Are you noticing a drop in power/performance?

So far, no significant changes.... though it's only been a day so far!

I have not turned up the Juice to see if I can tell a difference in performance or smoke under hard accelleration. I'd like to run a tank or two and check mileage first.

I have kept detailed records for mileage since I bought the truck - fuel price records, too. The jump in diesel prices are no fun to look at when graphed. The last few months have been steep!

Get a sample of the fuel in a clear container and observe it at different temps. You want it to be clear.

Ive run B80 a lot, and have not noticed a drop in mileage or power. I was suprised.

Mannytranny,
I'll put some in a clear glass jar next fill. It’ll be about 10 days ‘til then.

What temperature "should" biodiesel start to get cloudy? I have heard that biodiesel will cloud at higher temps than #2 petroleum diesel, but have heard no numbers for what is normal & expected.

If it is not clear at shirt-sleeve temperatures, do you recommend against buying it?
What bad signs should I look for other than “cloudy”? Smell? Color?

Since you seem to know & post a bunch about biodiesel –
I have a couple cases of fuel additive; Stanadyne lubricity formula and Amsoil Cetane improver. Are these NOT compatible with biodiesel or will they still work as advertised? I have seen you post info that the standard emulsifiers & demulsifiers will not work with biodiesel. Is there somewhere I can read about the reasons behind this?

Thanks!
HB

HB: Biodiesel is tricky stuff. Many different feedstocks are used, and they all lend themselves to different cloud and gel points. Soy is usually pretty good on the list. My guess is that it would cloud somewhere in the low 40's.

If it tends to cloud at high temps, that generally means entrained water. If this is suspected, heat the BD to 250f, and then see of the cloud point changes.

Other than cloudiness, look out for anything falling out of solution. Smell means nothing, unless you get high from evaporative methanol.......

It is my understanding that additives intended for petrol diesel do not work with BD. They may work with lower blends, but they are useless with B99. There are some BD specific additives, though. George Morrison recently posted on this.

i just tryed bio also and i have noticed a small drop in mileage. also it doesn't smoke as much if any. i am running around b50 and have around b70 in my transfer tank that i am going to use next.

I have noticed nothing but pleasant odors, smooth idle, and better balance rates from running B80 in the Dmax. No MPG or power loss. But the thing has so much power anyway, it would be hard to detect anything lost. MPG towing was even the same B80 as B5.

I run B30 in the TDI, and I automatically lose 4 mpg. No power loss there though. Just wierd.

And I am a nazi about MPG data in either vehicle.

Thanks Manny - I will post mileage numbers after my next fill, and will grab some in a clear jar at that time.

I have noticed less smoke, though I have not turned up the juice to check that yet. I typically run the Juice on "0" for low boost fueling. When I had it on 3 and was running petro I'd be leaving big nasty clouds of soot when I tromped on it in in traffic. I don't like smoking someone who's being nice by making room for me to change lanes.

Ya BD really clears the smoke.

I was running my VA box on 70 horse with moderate smoke at WOT when B80. I thought this was a little strange.....so I cleaned my Amsoil air filter. Now I cannot see any smoke at all at WOT. Thats more like it.

There is a time and a place for smoke, but Ide rather burn clean and be fast.

I stopped by for a fill-up this morning, and the place was out of biodiesel.
They're scheduled to get more today. I'll stop by on my way home from work to see if they did get some in. If they don't I'll have to buy petro-diesel.

HB, have you noticed that the oil stays cleaner a LOT longer with BD? Ive averaged B50 for the last 5k miles, and the oil just keeps clean.

On the TDIclub, (oil nazis) they have a huge database of oil analyses. Without fail, biodiesel use reduced wear on the engine, and also allowed for a longer drain interval. I was impressed.

Manny,
I have not run biodiesel long enough to notice a change in oil.
Right now I have just under 500 miles on my first tank of the stuff, and the oil has just over 5,000miles on it.

Oh! Ive run Biodiesel for at least 10k miles now. I guess youll find out how well it keeps down the soot levels next oil change!

No joy on the biodiesel today, had to fill up with petrodiesel.

Mileage on the tank of biodiesel was just over 16 mpg. I usually get just over 17 mpg. This is about a 6% difference. I'll need more datapoints to ensure that this isn't a fluke.

Smoke was very much reduced, and the exhaust smell was more like a kitchen than a garage.

Mebbe next go round.

I stopped into my B100 supplier for a 1/2 tank fill, and they were STILL out of biodiesel!

They called their supplier and apparently this supplier is having process problems in making their biodiesel.

If they end up charging over $3.00 a gallon I'm not buying. Petrodiesel is now going for $2.69/gal, plus I have a couple cases of lubricity & cetane improvers to use (which are no good with bio).

Regular unleaded is going for ~$2.20/gal.

Well, isn't this a kick in the head?

I went to get a 1/2 tank of biodiesel this morning. Yes they had it available, which is a good thing, and B100 at that.

However, the price was set to $3.79/per gallon :eek:

I am certainly willing to go out of my way to get biodiesel, and even willing to pay a bit more for it. I am certainly NOT willing to both go out of my way AND pay ~$1.25 more per gallon than for petrodiesel.
Not gonna happen!

There is a place that sells B20 for a decent price - competative even! I guess I will have to start going there.

That sucks. I wonder if they changed something in their mix that necessitated a price change.

Hard to believe that anyone would buy it at that price.

Biowillie has a good reputation for being as fair as possible with BD pricing. This wasnt one of his stations, was it?

Mannytrany,
From the information I got last Friday, the supplier has been having problems with their process.
My best guess is that they did something wrong and messed up their yield, driving up the price of what they did successfully produce. At that price, they’re not going to sell much of it.

No, this is not a Biowillie distributor.
This particular distributor is called Alternate Fuel Systems, near the old airport. Most of what they do is convert gas engines to propane or CNG. They do not set the price, they are a retail location for Austin Biofuels, LLC (http://www.austinbiofuels.com/).

Why on earth would you be willing to pay more for Biodiesel? Isnt made to be cheaper because its from a renewable resource? If the fuel you are buying is 50% or greater bio, than it should be much cheaper than petro. Whats the point otherwise?

Biodeisel isnt available where i live but E85 gasoline is. E85 is about 1.60/gal. and Reg. Unleaded is about 1.97/gal. Problem is, E85 robs your engine of power and miles per gallon. So what is the point? :confused:

Four main reasons:

My $$ not going into the pockets of OPEC members (ie terrorists) or into the hands of oil companies.

Personal health, I dont have to suck diesel fumes (carcinogen)

Better lubricity. Longer oil change intervals, better on injection system. Engine wear is also reduced with BD, according to oil analyses.

Better for the environment.

Im glad to pay a bit more for it.

HBRUNS,

I have bought B20 at a FuelMan station a mile or so off of I35 on 7th I think it is. Was cheaper than their #2 @ $2.99.

I live in Dallas but my inlaws live in San Antonio so I go that way fairly often. Recently though I filled up at that FuelMan and again at Carls Corner BioWillie about 160 miles up the road, 21.69 mpg. I was happy. Any higher a percentage then B20 and my mileage drops.

I would like to try B20 when I get my new LBZ. Its just not very easy to find in the upper midwest. Does below zero temp. effect B20 or higher versus petro diesel?

Mannytranny-

I somewhat agree about the lubrication properties, and better on the injectors. I would like to see information on a longterm study with B100 on any diesel. I would only choose biodiesel because it should be cheaper! i.e. "its renewable" and would support our local oilseed growers.
despite other technology (like biodiesel) our demand for oil is never going to decrease. Our demand for foriegn will once we start drilling our own. As for your concern for the environment, go buy a honda civic.:nutkick:

Mannytranny-

I somewhat agree about the lubrication properties, and better on the injectors.

Somewhat agree?

I would like to see information on a longterm study with B100 on any diesel. I would only choose biodiesel because it should be cheaper! i.e. "its renewable" and would support our local oilseed growers.

Well, market dictates price. You say it should be cheaper......what does that mean? Sounds like the ramblings of someone that never took economics of any sort. Do you even have any idea how it is made? I didnt think so.

The truth is that it should be more expensive, especially if soybean oils are used. You are getting a tax credit from the government for BD right now.

Renewability means nothing when it comes to price.

despite other technology (like biodiesel) our demand for oil is never going to decrease.

Wrongo. Even when we saw the moderate price increases that came as a result of Katrina and Rita, diesel demand slowed. You can be damn sure that when diesel goes to $5/g demand will slow. Weve got a load of people that make their diesel trucks their daily drivers.....and at some price level they will wisen up and park it.

Our demand for foriegn will once we start drilling our own.

We drill our own right now.

As for your concern for the environment, go buy a honda civic.:nutkick:

Another 'anti-environmentalist.' Goody goody.....could one have a less useful opinion?

Ugly to see that I list the environment as a benefit of biodiesel, and you see it as a reason not to use BD.

If you have no concern for environmental issues, I suggest that you move to China where you can see where years of lax environmental protection has gotten them. Cities slammed with smog inversion layers, particulate matter, and other poison you breathe. And then you can look at the acid rains that have wiped out their farmlands.

Until you have something useful to add, please refrain.

Wow, Dont get so upset, I was just asking a few questions about biofuel, and why its so unavailable, cost, and long term studies on diesels?
sorry, but my honda civic comment was meant as a joke. I would like to hear from someone else about my questions.

It is unavaliable because the industry is quite small. 75 million gallons of BD produced in 05, compared to 55 billion gallons of diesel consumed.

Not sure what you want to know about 'long term.' Good quality biodiesel offers tremendous lubrication benefits. Works pretty much like diesel. Ive got something like 10k on high blends, nothing but good smell and good mileage.

Sorry, I tend to get angry quickly when people seem willing to write something off because it just might be good for the environment. We all breathe the same air.

:cool:

I am not a "greenie" but I hear what Manny is saying. A co-worker just came back from Cairo and he said it was so polluted that the whole trip was miserable even though it was on the company. This is a guy that wanted to see the pyramids his whole life.

HBRUNS,

I have bought B20 at a FuelMan station a mile or so off of I35 on 7th I think it is. Was cheaper than their #2 @ $2.99.

I live in Dallas but my inlaws live in San Antonio so I go that way fairly often. Recently though I filled up at that FuelMan and again at Carls Corner BioWillie about 160 miles up the road, 21.69 mpg. I was happy. Any higher a percentage then B20 and my mileage drops.
There's a "Major Brand" gas station on Oltorf, just off I-35 south of Austin. Oltorf is the 2nd exit south of the river, and the station is (much) less than a mile east of I-35.
Their current price for B20 is 2.39/gal, which is cheaper than petro-diesel (~2.49 is the cheapest I've seen that stuff lately). My only gripe with the station is the pay at the pump option cuts off at $55, so I have to swipe again to top off when filling the tank.

I need to check back at the place that sells B99 to see if they have come down in price. Their $3.79/gal a couple weeks ago has had me spooked!