Here is my intake tube after 7k miles of running the uni. It is/was installed correctly. It is oiled properly. The tube was clean before the install. I will go to Napa sunday and buy the stock paper unit. What a piece of crap this filter is. Those are my finger marks in the heavy dust and sand in the tube. And yes you can see plenty of sun light (small holes) when held up to the sun. Here is shot 2 with the sun shining through a small 2 inch section.





http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/61C_air_filtered.jpg

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/EFF_filtersun.jpgEdited by: problemchild

Have you talked to John Kennedy about this problem? Edited by: afp1

I sent an email to uni and linked this post. Lets see what they say. I cant remember who I bought it from. I rember buying oil or additices at the same time. I WILL ask for my money back!

Looks the same way as my K&N! Although I believe my pinholes were created from me cleaning the filter. Never the less, if you can not clean them then what good are they? My original paper is already back in untill I find a suitable replacement.

This is why I still have a stock intake http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


What we need is a disposable paper cone with a sock over it Edited by: DIESEL 5

How about a replacement air-box that uses high quality Donaldson paper elements? I've seen one that works pretty good...


Ox

I have also emailed AFE to see if they offer there progaurd 7 in an OEM configuration. Blue Ox are you talking about that big blue vacum cleaner or something else?

big blue vacum cleaner or something else?


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Big blue vacuum cleaner?

How about a replacement air-box that uses high quality Donaldson paper elements? I've seen one that works pretty good...


Ox




Are you referring to a stock looking black airbox that takes a better paper filter or are you talking about the blue metal thingy with the spiny filter? I viewed pictures quite some time ago and do not remeber the name or who was talking about it. It reminded me of one of those metal electronics style vacum cleaners?

Uhhh...huh...yeah...I was talking about the UMP super filter air-box. The blue metal thingy is actually silver/gray. The spiny filter has viens on it to turn out the larger particals, kinda like a pre-filter, and spead the air over the whole element. I've never seen a vacuum that looked like it, anything is possible...

Ox

No Flames! I use to be in the electronics industry and it was quite common to see vacum cleaners that were about as round as a coffe can and 1 to 2 feet long. They hold very high effeciancy filters and are very quiet. Some sling over your shoulder on your back. I am glad you told me the name of the air filter you are referring to. That is the one I remeber. A little to rich for my blood. I would be interested in a high quality paper element for the stock box.

Problemchild,


I'm quite surprised to see your pictures for a couple reasons.


first, i've had mine in since i started selling them and put about 12k on mine so far. my intake is perfectly clean, which includes a few trips to the desert and sand dunes. I actually just went out a looked at it after reading this post, and its so clean i can't leave a mark inside the tube with a clean paper towel.


second, i ride dirt bikes and quads. i originally ran k&n until i noticed dust (like your picture) inside the intakes of my riding machines. this was most prevalent when riding during the very hot and dry summer months of CA when trails are so dusty you have to space out 60 seconds or so from the person behind you to see where you're going. After noticing how poor of a job my k&n's were doing i switched to UNI's across the board and i've never seen any dirt in the intake's since. my only exception when when i crashed my quad so bad the filter fell off and bounced around inside the airbox.


are you sure your UNI isn't damaged in any way? are the clamps tight? Please understand i'm not doubting you in any way... i just find it odd how my bikes (and my dmax in this case) stay so clean and yours didn't.. especially when my bikes see more dust than our dmax's ever will...


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Diesel Power

I have been riding dirt bikes and working on cars since I was a kid. Foam elements are NOT new to me. I have 30+ years expierence with them. Im pretty sure (like 100%) that I didnt make any kind of mistake.

Are you sure you have the same uni element I have. Maybe they make different grades. Maybe they started making them cheaper in Taiwan or something.

Do me a favor.......

Take your out tomorrow during the day and hold it up to the sun. I can see thousands of tiny light holes popping through, can you?

My opinion still stands, this product is crap!

Have you cleaned the UNI since installed ??


I'm thinking that perhaps being over oiled either by manufacture or end user given the high demand of air volume the Duramax uses that it has sucked some of the excessive oil into the beginning of the snorkel ....


People have complained of dirty Mass Air sensor by way of oil contamination .... With the excessive oil from the filter, dirt can acompany and I'm sure it does ....


I've heard of Amsoil Stage II doing the same thing ....


Blot blot blot your filter prior to use ....


Mac Edited by: Mackin

Guys! I'm just a newbie lurker, but before blaming the product, consider the source of the complaint. After reading posts here for a couple of months, I think that the air filter was the only piece on his truck that wasn't "defective". http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

No Flames! I use to be in the electronics industry and it was quite common to see vacum cleaners that were about as round as a coffe can and 1 to 2 feet long. They hold very high effeciancy filters and are very quiet. Some sling over your shoulderÊon your back. I am glad you told me the name of the air filter you are referring to. That is the one I remeber. A little to rich for my blood. I would be interested in a high quality paper element for the stock box.


Okay, now I got it, I just didn't know were you were going with that. The super filter is pricey, but well worth it IMO. Even the preproduction model I have for testing is of very high quality. I figure the production model will be even better. I'm surprised that there isn't a high quality paper OEM replacement too. I'd still rather have my big gray vacuum cleaner thoughhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Happy motoring,
Ox

Dunno how a guy could see light thru the foam http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif unless it was washed with acid or a nasty solvent...





I will say this, when a gauze filter mfr comes out with a major revamp of extra ply for diesel better filtration performance, what does that say about the original that was supposed to be so great???





IMHO Gauze filters are like TP, 1 ply, 2 ply, or quilted, they are still just like a**wipe...

Rolln' thunder-

"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Dad, not screaming in terror like his passenger."

Dude that's funny!!

LOOK

I have been using foam filters since I was a kid. Dirt bikes, dune buggies etc. I know how they work. I know how to use them properly.

I cant EVER remember being able to see light pin holes through ANY of them. If I did it meant they were worn out.

This UNI is brand new out of the box and the first thing I did was hold it to the sun. What do I see? Thousands of little light holes.

So I stand by the first post. This product is crap. It is the 2 stage UNI foam filter red/black for the Dmax. Thats what I bought from 1 of the vendors here. Thats what Im going to return to 1 of the vendors here.

Problem Child


To repair one of your so manny problems, the 96 tahoe has a donaldson tube filter in it, maybe you can adapt it to your intake. Personally I would sell this truck, by seeing so many of your complaining posts it looks as if you got your self a lemmon. My uni Foam is doing as Diesel Power's is and I live in country on dirt dusty roads.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


Geno

Geno

Yes I will race to the nearest dealer and trade my truck in on a Yugo. Thanks for the GREAT advice.

You know there are basically 2 groups of people here ( and also in the camera forum I belong to). Those that look at the evidence (picture) and see a problem. And those (who I will not name) who always try to find blame in the poster. Maybe this last group should do an introspective look at yourself and ask yourself why am I so negative.

I must say its very hard to understand.Edited by: problemchild

Wooooooo





Lets give PC the benifit of doubt ,what's PC got to lose ?? I'd be interested in some pictures of the air cleaner ....


The sun is pretty bright in California .... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


Mac

I say we give PC the benefit of the doubt, but I am not so sure about Mackin.................http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Like a K&N an oiled foam filter requires special oil. I've tried most of them and in my experience Bel Ray foam filter oil is the easiest to work with and provides good protection. Maxima works well too but because of it's thinner consistency doesn't seem to go as far. Personally I never use Uni's own oil even though I am using Uni's filters in some of my dirt bikes. That said I'm using a K&N on my truck with good results. My foam filters get serviced every time they go in the dirt and replaced every year and that's why I use them only on my race bikes. My play bikes, toys and trucks all are K&N equiped for their longer service interval and less hassle. My point is that using a foam filter for long service intervals is asking it to do something it was never designed to do.

I just checked mine, and the intake was immaculate. The again, it just came back from the dealer for the injector job, and they may have wiped it down, but I don't think so. I'll check again in a few thousand miles.


I took a damp white paper towel and give it a wipe, and I got absolutely nothing.


On the other hand, one of the four screws was loose, as in completely. Dealer obviously forgot to tighten it.


Rick

In case you missed it here it is held up to the sun. That is 1 small 2inch square part of the filter. The whole filter looks like this.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/C41_filtersun.jpg

While i didn't take any pictures of my filter, light doesn't shine through it.. here is my intake tube.. nice and clean. note its not uniform color inside, but a moist alcohol towlette leaves no mark and still looked clean.. here's the tube before i wiped to to see if thre was any dirt (which there wasn't). Also my MAF looks a bit wierd as i used carb cleaner last time that left a bit of petrol residue.. oops.. you can also see a bit of oil in the tube from my original over-oiled amsoil filter.. hence the reason for cleaning the MAF..


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/3ZC_IMG_0297.JPGEdited by: Diesel Power

Well I was under the truck swaping out the trasfer case fluid for Mobil-1 ATF today and had read Problems post last night. I have not checked my Amsoil filter since I installed about 10,000mi ago. Popped open the air cleanr and pulled it out. Didn't look too dirty and the filter gauge thingy has never even budged. Held it up to the sun (and it was real sunny today about 75 deg.) and what did I see?.........Not a dang thing, no light at all, no pin holes. Checked the inside of the intake tube, again, nothing no dirt nothing I could wipe etc. So I popped it back in and will clean it some time later. The thing seems to work as advertised.


I did notice quite a bit of oil in the bottom of the box from the filter. Guess it had to much on it when I got it. None in the intake tube though.


How do you clean the MAF anyway. Mine looked ok but there was enough extra oil in the box to concern me.Edited by: BigdaddyG

I also have the UNI filter on the truck. Had it for about 8000 miles now. Just took it out to have a look and have a slight slight slight dusting on the clean side of the filter housing and intake tube...not much, but its there. Looking at the filter from the clean side towards the sun, I too see what PC sees in his picture...not good. Put back my original stock element for now until there is a suitable solution.Edited by: maxinDixon

maxinDixon

When did you buy your filter? Maybe they have gone to a cheaper Taiwan issue filter (leftover sofa cusions).

How do you clean the MAF?? There are many time tested methods, however I believe the safest and easiest method is to go down to your local auto store and look for CRC QD Electronic Cleaner. Shake well and spray directly at all of your MAF componets. It will dry very quickly and leave no residue. No touching of the MAF required.


As far as air filters go. If you read my past post you might call me a K&N cheerleader? However after I read all of this air filter talk I went out to my truck and looked for my self. My intake tube was dirty! I held my filter up to the sun and I saaawww the light! My filter has pinholes in it. No gauze no oil no protection! I have since replaced my K&N with the original AC DELCO paper element. No performance decrease and a lot more piece of mind. In defense of K&N, I had recently cleaned my filter and I got after it a little much. Little bugs are difficult to remove from those deep pleets. Lots of rinsing and lots of tapping. I guarentee it was properly oiled with K&N oil and properly fited in my stock box. I even had previously installed the extra gasket the K&N mandates be in the top of the box rim. All fittings are tight and correct. This is part of my normal inspection. The dealer also did a 21 point inspection and had no comment other than my K&N was clean. You could almost tell by his hand writing that he wanted to tear into me(1fatcat?). With that said, my first inclination was to replace my K&N with a UNI, however after reading this post and a few others I am not so sure. I am going to stay with my stock box and really want a good filter with high flow. UNI is still my first choice at this time. It would however be nice to get to the bottom of this. If you give feedback about your filter please state weather you drive on many gravel roads. I see this being a very important factor in air filter performance indicators. Thanks, JeffEdited by: Bronco

maxinDixon

When did you buy your filter? Maybe they have gone to a cheaper Taiwan issue filter (leftover sofa cusions).


PC


I bought my filter from an on line vendor here back in September or October of last year based on his recommendation and my experience with K&N. I have about 8000 miles on the UNI now and checked the intake for dust. Not much dust there but since we are not exactly in the dusty season currently I felt it too much dust to ignore. I did the light test as you and found the exact same thing. Didn't take a picture since it would look just like yours. Let me know what UNI tells you. I want the better air flow but not at the expense of shoddy filtering.


Edited by: maxinDixon

Well, all this fuss got me to looking at my Amsoil air filter. No dirt, dust, or grit at all, even with a white towel. Also, i don't have the "blue surround" one.

As far as air filters go. If you read my past post you might call me a K&N cheerleader? However after I read all of this air filter talk I went out to my truck and looked for my self. My intake tube was dirty! I held my filter up to the sun and I saaawww the light! My filter has pinholes in it. No gauze no oil no protection! I have since replaced my K&N with the original AC DELCO paper element. No performance decrease and a lot more piece of mind. In defense of K&N, I had recently cleaned my filter and I got after it a little much. Little bugs are difficult to remove from those deep pleets. Lots of rinsing and lots of tapping. I guarentee it was properly oiled with K&N oil and properly fited in my stock box. I even had previously installed the extra gasket the K&N mandates be in the top of the box rim. All fittings are tight and correct. This is part of my normal inspection. The dealer also did a 21 point inspection and had no comment other than my K&N was clean. You could almost tell by his hand writing that he wanted to tear into me(1fatcat?). My first inclination was to replace my K&N with a UNI, however after reading this post and a few others I am not so sure. I am going to stay with my stock box and really want a good filter with high flow. UNI is still my first choice at this time. It would however be nice to ge to the bottom of this. If you give feedback about your filter please state weather you drive on many gravel roads. I see this being a very important factor in air filter performance indicators. Thanks, Jeff





Had a K&N in my 99 Dodge which had to be replaced for the light that shineth through after 50,000 miles. I found it a pain to clean. Lots of bugs and other crap. I wanted to avoid this on the dmax so went with the UNI only to find the same thing on my filter as PC found on his. So now I am back to my original A/C filter.


On edit: I travel a great deal on dirt and gravel roads.


Edited by: maxinDixon

I'll post a little wisdom I learned from my MX bikes. This is just a good thing to know and not dirrected to anyone in particular. Never clean and oil your filter and then start your truck. Time it so that when you service you foam or gauze filter the truck is allowed to sit overnight to let the oil set up and to soak throughout the filter and drip away any excess. Filter oil comes out liquid and then turns all stringy when it sets. As a motocrosser I learned this the hard way. Clean and oil a filter on a 2 stroke and start it and it will suck up oil and run a little rich for a few laps. If it dies it will be hard to start. If you do the same thing on a new style 4 stroke mx bike and it dies it will be impossible to start. If you wait overnight before starting none of these symptoms will be present. That's why racers always carry spare pre oiled filters in zip-lock bags.Edited by: MOTO HEAD

Ditto that Moto Head, better yet, get two filters and rotate them. That way you're not rushed to get it cleaned, re-oiled (and dried) before you can run it again.

I was running a K&N on my 03. After reading all the posts on this sight I decided to check my K&N. A lot of light was shining through it!!!! I thought the UNI would be the way to go. I ordered one for my 04. (traded the 03 for the 04, don't get me started on that story). The UNI looked just like Problemchilds picture. It was brand new right from UNI. I am stuck with a $50.00 filter that will never see my air box!!!!!!!! Sorry guys I am going to run paper. I tried to convince myself that dirt wouldn't go through the holes where the light is shining through, but I couldn't do it.

I hate to hear about all of the problems associated with these filters. One of the few times I would ever say get "Amsoil" is with their foam filter.


I bought one on a whim. I knew they were supposed to be a good filter but I was used to running a K&N. I installed the Amsoil and have never looked back. It is a great filter. Cleaning at 5k produced twice as much junk as the K&N ever did.


I also keep the paper filter. When I clean the Amsoil I will put in the paper for a couple of days to allow the foam filter to set and drain the excess oil.


Mike

Be sure and clean your foam filters with soap and water... not diesel fuel or kerosene.

Wash it out good a few times with a good dishwashing liquid solution. Rinse well with warm water repeatedly.

Let dry and oil it with the proper stuff.

If you use diesel fuel or kero you run the risk of the engine running out of control when you put it in and start it. It will feed off the fumes.

Everyone probably knows this but cleaning foam filters in gasoline will eventually degrade/destroy them.

Hoot


Yes your method of cleaning makes perfect sense, however it does not address the holes I see in my own UNI filter just as PC sees in his filter. My uni filter has yet to be cleaned for the first time so seeing those hole in the sun light has be seeing red! I need something that will work in severe dusty conditions. My 91 dodge cummins had the big round filter something like the UMP uses and my Case tractor W14B used them on its 5.9 engine which we traded off at 22,500 original hours. Not because the engine was running bad but because the rest of the machine was worn out.

I'm glad to see this topic and the claims of filter manufacturers scrutinized. I'm am skeptical of the claims of filter mfg's. and did a little research of my own. I highly suggest reading a short thread on thedieselpage.com called "UNI Air Filter".
My frustrations began with an AMSOIL filter. My oil analysis showed high dirt (silicon). I was told that K&N was good at filtering birds and bricks but little more. I was told AMSOIL wasn't much better and to try the UNI. I looked at my intake tube and it was VERY dirty and oily. I put in the stock paper until I could do a little research. A very interesting test was done by a guy who posted his results on bobistheoilguy.com. I suggest reading it. Although he did not test the UNI, he found to his surprise that the AMSOIL and K&N filtered the worst, and the paper the best.
So I sent an E-mail to UNI asking for some data to back up their product. First I got a propoganda letter. After another request I got 2 pages of data dated 1-30-89 when UNI was under a company name of "Scotfoam". The data showed "100% efficiency at 5-10 micron". WHATEVER!!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gif
Then thedieselpage did a product review of the UNI and bold, irresponsible and misleading statements were made such as..."We've known for a long time that a properly designed dual-stage oiled-foam element traps dirt better than any other type of air filter media." OH, IS THAT SO???? Who is WE and where is the DATA????? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ouch.gif I have requested data so many times my fingers are sore and all I hear is crickets.
I really like the real-world study published on bobistheoilguy.com and have contemplated duplicating this study on the D-max. I would make a few changes and also use a couple of volunteers in the SE Wisconsin area in order to increase the data and legitimacy. It wouldn't cost much other than time and a few filters. I have no stake in the outcome and my objective is to find out "which filters the best in a real world environment". If I get enough support, I just may do it. A lot of thought has already been given to the idea on my part. SPICER

I just cleaned my Amsoil filter for the first time a couple weeks ago and also noticed a little excess oil in the bottom of the airbox. MAF looks good, though, and the intake tube was clean as a whistle. I had the paper element in for the couple days it took for me to get around to cleaning the filter and really can't tell any performance difference at all. I think if I had it to do over again I would stick with the paper element only, but the Amsoil doesn't seem to be letting any dirt through. Oh well, my injectors will probably die long before the dirty air hurts anything. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

Another thing....Those looking for a performance advantage......A stock vehicle(no juice or chips) will not benefit performance-wise from a "better flow" filter. Stock paper has plenty of flow to meet the demands of our engine at full demand. I have even heard it said more than once that dyno tests show no performance advantage between using a filter and removing the filter all together. So even though a filter may flow more air than another, our trucks won't "notice" the difference.
The only "advantage" I see is that these foam filters are re-usable. However, it seems that this "advantage" must be necessarily accepted with the distinct disadvantage of filtering less dirt.
The differences noted by everyone regarding dirt in the intake tube and no dirt regardless of filter type is interesting, however the fit of the intake components may be one variable. The other wide ranging variable is the type and quantity of dirt in our regions. Different dirt filters differently.
As far as I know, the applications that require the STRICTEST filtering demands use paper....I wonder why? SPICER

One thing about high silicon levels from and oil anaylsis. That can be misleading in its self. IF you have high silicon levels and you don't see the rest of the wear metals out of line then the silcon show is more than likely not silica which will grind away at all metals. Instead you have silicon from RTV gaskets and things of that nature. The people at Navistar you silicon RTV to seal just about everything and you will see high levels for sometime. So don't go by silicon reading only when looking at and oil anaylsis. I can't speak for the Uni because I have never been around them but the Amsoil filters work very well and the ones that have had problems are the ones that had in installed incorrectly or a fualty filter like we had when the first came out with the new Flowzair a few months back. If I can find the thread on tdiclub.com I did some very good testing on a lot of different filters. Even got to where we were weighing the filter before and after the test along with weighing the amount of dirt being used. And every time the foam came out on top, but my second choice is paper.

Greg

No flames required. I think it is an issue of quality control. Check your intake tube for dirt to verify proper operation. Clean=good. Dirty=bad. This applies to all brands and types.

Something you need to do with any foam filters is clean them often. If you let them get to dirty you will never get all the dirt out and it will work its way through the foam. One thing about the Uni that I just found out from the factory is the oil they use has a very tiny bit of glue in it so the dirt sticks. I have used this type of tack oil before and it works very well but it calls for you to make sure you get it washed well. If you don't get the old out it is hard for the new to hold.

Greg

After another request I got 2 pages of data dated 1-30-89 when UNI was under a company name of "Scotfoam". The data showed "100% efficiency at 5-10 micron". WHATEVER!!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gif
SPICER

Foamex I believe came from Scotfoam is local to me.... they make automotive foam products as in seat cushions.

They (Scotfoam) also made parts of silicone breast implants.

"FOAM USED IN THE DEVICES GENERALLY WAS PURCHASED FROM SCOTFOAM CORP WHICH
CALLS THE STUFF SCOTT INDUSTRIAL FOAM AND SAYS IT NEVER WAS INTENDED FOR USE
IN THE HUMAN BODY THE COMPANY HAS SAID IT DIDN'T KNOW OF THE USE FOR YEARS
THE FOAM OTHERWISE IS USED IN AUTOMOBILE AIR FILTERS AND CARPETCLEANING
EQUIPMENT AND ENTERED THE MEDICAL MARKET IN THE EARLY 1970S AT A TIME WHEN
FDA SCRUTINY OF MEDICAL DEVICES WAS MINIMAL"

Also goes by SIF
Scot Industrial Foam (http://www.reillyfoam.com/sif.htm)

But Today it comes from Foamex (http://www.foamex.com/technical/filtration.php)

Filtration

SIF® and SIF Felt® foams filter air with relatively little air resistance or pressure drop because of the special combination of dust-catching strands and dust-holding capacity in their void space. For example, these foams are used in engine air filters on lawn mowers, motorcycles, automobiles, and trucks. The high-performance foam filters air in air conditioning units, furnaces, computers, refrigerators, and many other products that require dust protection. SIF® and SIF Felt® foams for air filtration can be fabricated in many special ways, such as hot wire cut to complex shapes for lawn mower engine air filters; metal or plastic framed sheets for a pre-filter and/or after-filter use in electronic air cleaners; in addition, the foams can be glued or sewn into bands for filter wraps on automobile carburetor air cleaners.

Here is some technical data (http://www.foamex.com/technical/filtration.php)Edited by: hoot

Sorry to hear about all the foam filter problems. The miniscule benefits are grossly out-weighed by the negatives. I'll keep my low tech, easy to change paper filter thank you.

Greg said:

One thing about high silicon levels from and oil anaylsis. That can be misleading in its self. IF you have high silicon levels and you don't see the rest of the wear metals out of line then the silcon show is more than likely not silica which will grind away at all metals. Instead you have silicon from RTV gaskets and things of that nature.
Greg

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are referencing SILICONE gasket maker. SILICONE is distinctly different from silicon. Silicon is basically sand. SILICONE is some synthetic product used for various purposes. They are chemically totally different. Just because it SOUNDS like silicon does not mean it will look like silicon to an oil analysis.

HOOT
I took a look at the data on your link. Foam's claim to fame is dirt hoding capacity, low resistance to flow and re-usability. I will agree with all of those claims. However, if one's goal is filtering efficiency down to the small, damaging particle size (ironically the same size particles damaging to our fuel systems), then foam falls short. UNI provides NO claim of superior filtering efficiency in their website info. Neither does AMSOIL. They use adjectives like "superior" and "excellent", but what does that mean?

To be honest, the only system I have seen that impresses me and offers the potential for Truly Superior Filtering Efficiency is the new UMP filter system. Much like the theory behind the huge MEGA fuel filter....... Use a super-fine filter media, paper, and in order to increase residence time and decrease the resistance to the flow, make it HUGE. It may not be sexy and red, but to me it sounds like the ticket. SPICEREdited by: SPICER

Spicer
If you talk with any oil analsis lab they will tell you the same thing. That silicone RTV can leach out and raise the silicon. I have been there and done that many times. Also if you would pleae give me a call when you can. Its about a credit.

Greg

Greg

Thanks Greg, taking the kid to Tae Kwon Do now, will call in a few. Thanks for the Silicon(e) lesson, but I am still skeptical. Not of you, but something seems un-jive. SPICER

Silicone (RTV) being almost absolutely inert I don't think that's the issue. It's being confused with gasket material, not gasket compound. Many fibrous gaskets have silica glass fibers in their structures and can produce increased silicon readings.

Either I'm too stupid or too smart to figure this out.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif


I have held a filter to light and cannot see any pinholes.


What I do see is oil "webbing" the pores and reflecting back at me. Maybe I'll try tonight in total darkness.








My question to problemchild is this:


Did you wipe your entire air intake clean BEFORE installing the filter?


Is there any evidence of dust/dirt on the metal screen of the Uni? Looks clean to me...





I'll close by stating that NO filter is 100%, but experience has shown that the oiled foam performs much better than either the paper or cotton gauze media...

You guys crack me up! CONSIDER THE FACT THAT IT COULD BE A QUALITY CONTROL ISSUE! MOST ARE OKAY A FEW ARE NO GOOD. THERE WOULD BE NO DIRT ON TOP OF THE SCREEN DUE TO THE VACUM. IT ALL LANDS UPSTREAM. IF THERE IS DIRT IN YOUR INTAKE TUBE YOU HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM! SCREW OIL ANAYLS AND SCREW WHOS FILTER IT IS. IF YOU HAVE DIRT IN YOUR INTAKE YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. MY K&N DID THE SAME THING. If you have dirt in your intake I suggest you immediatly replace your filter and check all fittings! If you are looking for a different option AFE supposedly makes a filter that fits in the stock box. It is part # 75-10062. According to Eric at AFE it is built out of there new progaurd 7 which is supposed to be the best of both worlds???? It has been stated here before that high flow and high filtration are an unlikly combination. I would be curious to see how an AFE progaurd 7 tested for flow vs. filtration. Think about it!! Read past post in the current thread you are responding to before you post! Yes I am yelling! I am better now and no longer yelling. Thank you.

Too bad that yelling lands on mostly deaf ears...

Amen Bronco

Either I'm too stupid or too smart to figure this out.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif











I'll close by stating that NO filter is 100%, but experience has shown that the oiled foam performs much better than either the paper or cotton gauze media...








And this data is compiled of Paper verses Gauzes verses Foam ran and tested on the same vehicle ,where ??


Once and for all I liked to see other then he said she said ...Really no different then the belief two guys are seeing the "LIGHT" and one saying reflection ...


Mac Edited by: Mackin

I was concerning after reading this thread so I checked my unifilter today. I could see no light through it and the intake tube was spotless. Even so, I will be monitoring more frequently in the future.


Hoss

www.TheDieselpage.com (http://www.TheDieselpage.com) circa 1998? Features Articles and Product Reviews. I'll also point out that there were NO Amsoil advertisers on this site at the time of the test.





Greg Landuyt has a handy little vacuum tester and measured particles along with a white secondary filter that probvides a seeing is believing result that is quite obvious.





George Morrison has oil analysis details as well.





Ask anyone who grass drags with a snowmobile how long their top end lasts with K&N pod filters vs Uni...


Edited by: Kennedy

I don't think this is an issue of wether or not they filter better, the issue is that that are supposed to filter equal to or better, while allowing the intake to flow more. Stock filters always lean in the direction of being safe, ie better filtering, but you lose the airflow, incomes the K&N, Uni, Amsiol etc. I used a K&N on my 2000 Z71, but I have to admit, I saw little to no performance improvement. When they make a better moustrap that will eliminate over oiling, or pinholes in the foam, I might reconsider an aftermarket, but for now, this camper will stick with the stock paper filter.


Bill

Man guys, just when I thought I got one of the best air filters money can buy, I hear this news. I'm so confused!! Looks like it's best just to go back to paper.

I also noticed tiny pin holes in my new UNI filter when I held it up to the sun. Not as bad as the K&N though. I didn't think much of it at the time. Kinda figured the zig zag flow nature of the foam would cause the dirt particles to stick to the sides of the holes and quickly shut them off before a measurable amount of dirt passed through. I did clean the tube out before installation. (had a light film of dust from the K&N) so I should be able to get a heads up when I check it. Since only a few of us are seeing the holes I wonder if they came from a defective batch of foam. My filter was purchased Sept-17-03.


TommyEdited by: a bear

www.TheDieselpage.com (http://www.TheDieselpage.com) circa 1998? Features Articles and Product Reviews. I'll also point out that there were NO Amsoil advertisers on this site at the time of the test.





Greg Landuyt has a handy little vacuum tester and measured particles along with a white secondary filter that probvides a seeing is believing result that is quite obvious.





George Morrison has oil analysis details as well.





Ask anyone who grass drags with a snowmobile how long their top end lasts with K&N pod filters vs Uni...











Sorry buddy no interest in going there and supporting ,thanks for the link tho ... Besides I can't believe Jim'bob and his Hide and Seek Sonny'boys info as their proven to be bias and well ,I'll leave it there ....


Nothing current I guess that was 5 years ago and you discontinued your sales on Amsoil since so what's it prove,things change .... If you have a copy post results, would be interesting .... I never grass race my Max, traction issues ...


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Purchased mine from a forum vendor late Nov 03. Still in the sealed wrapper and yes, it has a lot of pinholes. I wonder if there is a reasonable explaination?


Edited by: ShumDit

Just an FYI......... I've seen the OEM paper filter "inside" the intake tube! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Throw Up.gif Paper does work very well. However, just the slightest bit of moisture can cause paper fatigue, heavy rain or just "mudd'n" around will do it. ........ Chip's Duramax (2WD 3500) ie "filter eater" was on a return trip ( 400 miles ) when it ate the filter. The truck had had a full service just 1k before this. Chip still had the filter reciept in his truck when it was towed in. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif As the wrecker rolled in I was wondering.... What whould have happend to a "Juiced" truck? Hence, J/K got a call and an order for two UNI's. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif





Burner----------> http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

www.TheDieselpage.com (http://www.TheDieselpage.com) circa 1998? Features Articles and Product Reviews. I'll also point out that there were NO Amsoil advertisers on this site at the time of the test.





Greg Landuyt has a handy little vacuum tester and measured particles along with a white secondary filter that probvides a seeing is believing result that is quite obvious.





George Morrison has oil analysis details as well.





Ask anyone who grass drags with a snowmobile how long their top end lasts with K&N pod filters vs Uni...











Sorry buddy no interest in going there and supporting ,thanks for the link tho ... Besides I can't believe Jim'bob and his Hide and Seek Sonny'boys info as their proven to be bias and well ,I'll leave it there ....


Nothing current I guess that was 5 years ago and you discontinued your sales on Amsoil since so what's it prove,things change .... If you have a copy post results, would be interesting .... I never grass race my Max, traction issues ...


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

was the demo anything like the kirby vacuum cleaner demo

Are you guys SERIOUSLY seeing pinholes? I didn't think my eyes were getting bad.





If you would, check again with a light on the opposite side, and scrutinize closely as to if these "pinholes" could just be oil "webs" shining back at you.





I'll go check again myself, but at 50ppi, and 90ppi, I find it hard to believe there is a clear path through...

Are you guys SERIOUSLY seeing pinholes? I didn't think my eyes were getting bad.





If you would, check again with a light on the opposite side, and scrutinize closely as to if these "pinholes" could just be oil "webs" shining back at you.





I'll go check again myself, but at 50ppi, and 90ppi, I find it hard to believe there is a clear path through...





Seriously John, I held mine up to the sunlight (as in the filter between my eyes and the sun) and it was direct path sunlight shining through pin holes.

It was dusk so, I used a lamp. Some pinholes white and some red from the duplex (gray/red foam layers) nature of construction. Its the white pinholes I'm concerned about. Its the first that I've ever questioned and wonder if its normal? Haven't installed/ran it yet. Now hesitant http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gifEdited by: ShumDit

I just went into the garage with the flash light and also saw red and white pin holes. The concern also is the white pin holes especially when you can see the light from those pin holes on a surface on the opposite side of the filter from where the light is.

I'm wondering (no first hand knowlege/experience) if this isn't normal? To pass air, it must be open cell not closed cell foam. In the dynamics of airflow, I can't help but wonder if particles fly in a streight line undisturbed by micro-currents etc? BUT finding myself reluctant to try it now and see if dust deposits inside like others have experienced.

Has anyone tried the eclisp view? Take a flat black poster board, lay it on the ground and hold the filter above it in direct sunlight or use a Q-beam.





Burner----------->

Perhaps for normal road duty that filter would be OK, but I farm and run that truck through some pretty dusty conditions. I can't afford to fool around with this stuff. That is why seeing direct light through that filter concerns me.Edited by: maxinDixon

If an air filter with unobstructed passages can stop all dirt particles, then a fuel filter of 30mic. media will stop all 2mic. particles.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gif Edited by: Bronco

I am not going to sing the praises of any filter. I have a new UNI and a new afe proguard that I will be trying eventually. I just wanted to point out something about silicon. I don't know what alloy is used for the heads or any other other aluminum parts on our engines. I work at an aluminum plant. Occasionally we cast different alloys, but the majority of the time, we cast 3000 series and 5000 series alloys. There are many variations of the two series of alloys. The majority of alloys that are cast at our plant have silicon in them. There are many other alloys other than the ones that we make, so our engines may not have any silicon in the aluminum. Just thought I might point this out as some of the silicon in an analysis could just be wear metals.

Good point flh. Also keep in mind that a single spectrographic oil analysis report from early in life of the engine may or may not be directly attributable to poor air filtration. It's a single point of data which has no other points of reference, since no other samples have been taken in the life of the engine, other than what comparable engine/milage combinations have shown. Just like George has said, spectrographic analysis is not the overall definitive answer all by itself. IMHO spectro is a tool which can be used as an early failure indicator and thru trend analysis, though trend analysis does require regular sampling and testing.

Flhrciblueice,


Since you have a new airfilter do me a favor. First visually inspect the filter to verify there are no completely unobstructed areas of the filter. Second look inside your intake tube and verify there is no dirt. Clean it out with a damp rag. Drive 5000 miles and perform both inspections again. I would be very interested to hear your results in 5000 miles. I am not insinuating anything. I am just trying to see if some of these problems occur with usage and also some of these intake tubes could have been dirty prior to filter installation?

I will do that as soon as I get time Bronco. I received the filter a couple weeks ago from Kennedy and haven't taken it out of the package yet. I will try to prep it today and put it in within a few days. I also have an extra intake box I have been planning to swiss cheese when I get the time. I will take pictures and document, now that I finally have read how to operate and download pics from my digicam. I was going to try to upload pics of my truck and scooter yesterday, but the power was out, so I never pulled the bike out of the garage. Maybe once I upload pics of the scoot, people will understand what my username stands for. I get questioned about it regularly.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Blueox03, How's that ump filter your testing working out? I got the chance to buy a AMSOIL filter but am now a little leary of the foam issue. I'll keep watch and make up my mind in afew. AkDually61

hey now my k&n looks just like the foams on the inside...dust covering the inside of the tube....and yes i use the k&n cleaner kit and cover it with the oil before i replace it

Couple issues here:





Unless it was verified clean prior to installation, this could have been pre existing dust.


If the "filter minder" is not sealed it will allow in unfiltered air.


No filter is absolute. If there was an excessively dusty situation, there could well have been some dust pulled thru, but with the oiled filter, it is highly unlikely. For dirt to "thread the needle" through a complicated path of oiled foam is not an easy task whether there are a few tiny pinholes or not...

Maybe once I upload pics of the scoot, people will understand what my username stands for. I get questioned about it regularly.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif





Sinister blue pearl, and diamond ice...


Have you checked out the new closed loop injection from Daytona TwinTec? Delphi systems only as I understand. The only gauze (and it drives me nuckin futs) filter that I have is in here:


FXDWGBLKYEL





http://www.kennedydiesel.com/photogal/images/HARLEY.jpg


Edited by: Kennedy

Why dont you read my original post kennedy and others.

Before you start making accusations that the tube was dirty before installation.

I will post the section of my post that answers the question before you asked it. Here is my original post. ------------------------->>>>>
Here is my intake tube after 7k miles of running the uni. It is/was installed correctly. It is oiled properly. The tube was clean before the install. I will go to Napa sunday and buy the stock paper unit. What a piece of crap this filter is. Those are my finger marks in the heavy dust and sand in the tube. And yes you can see plenty of sun light (small holes) when held up to the sun. Here is shot 2 with the sun shining through a small 2 inch section. <<<<<<<--------------------------------------------


I posted ALL the facts so people wouldnt start KILLING THE MESSENGER. I knew that some would be NEGATIVE and post all kinds of reasons why it had to be something I did wrong.

I didnt take into account you guys REFUSE to read whats posted!

nobody touched on the fact that foam filters deteriorate faster than the cotton gauze do.

IF foam is so good, why is it most lawnmower engines went from foam to paper?
With longer warranties and increasing demand for longevity of products, mfg.s use the better of the 2 now = PAPER.

problemchild, i agree about the onslaught of those attacking the messenger, and have seen all too often the constant barrage of attempts to discredit or spin a topic, too many vendors and salespeople, and why i don't post a forums often.

I think lawnmowers are throw away items and they probably use the cheapest available..

My lawn mower is John Deere. Looks like a deere and runs like a deere and not throw away by any means. In fact it is 12 years old and still runs like new. It has paper air filter too. Of course I paid big money for it yet I find the investment well worth it. My queensland blue heeler has yet to attack and shread the wheels of this machine haha.


As JK states "For dirt to "thread the needle" through a complicated path of oiled foam is not an easy task whether there are a few tiny pinholes or not..."


What I see are the pin holes that are straight shots through the foam that are worriesome.





Edited by: maxinDixon

Well I pulled my UNI filter after about 6K miles. The Intake tube is clean. At least I can't make a finger mark in the dust like my previous K&N. I no longer see the pin holes but the weather is cloudy. I reinstalled the filter with out wiping out the intake or cleaning the element to see If I will accumulate enough to notice when I check in another 6 or 7K. The filter was not very dirty but the weather hasn't been very dusty here since I installed it. I'm hoping this will be a no issue. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

The 5 UNI filtered Duramax engine oil analysis I have reviewed (to include particle count and ferrography, thus including the complete size spectrum) have reflected extremely low dirt/contaminant levels. One of them is my own Duramax. And in the case of my Duramax the wear metals, dirt, particle counts significantly reduced compared with the paper element the UNI replaced. Which is the information I shared in previous posts.
And again, as caveat, I do NOT sell UNI filters, I have no relationship with anyone who sells UNI filters, I just use them.. And to date, quanifiably, the UNI has provided excellentfiltration performance.
George Morrison

I think lawnmowers are throw away items and they probably use the cheapest available..



Is that why most of the paper elements cost more than the foam ones ever did?

I am not exactly clear on the relation between air filter performance and oil cleanliness is? Most fuel and air stays on top of your piston. There are usually 3 rings on your piston attempting to keep the top of the piston separate from your crank case. Yes before an engine reaches operating temp. there is some extra clearance which would allow blow buy. However during normal operation there should not be much transfer from the top of the piston to the crankcase. I see dirt ending up in alot of other places than the oil. Has any one done the type of test where you actually poor dirt over an uni under vacum and then measured particulate count on the other side?

I would speculate that lawnmowers went to paper because nobody wants to get their hands dirty, and they can be messy. A disposable paper filter is simple, AND generates parts revenue





My John Deere mower (455 3 cyl Yanmar diesel) has a paper element,and another woven cloth type secondary. If I could get a Uni for it, I definitely would without hesitation...





problemchild,


I realize that you stated it was clean before, but I'll admit myself, I seldom look extremely closely at the tube. Only speculating that maybe you scrutinized something more closely because you were looking for hoping to see the absoultely spotless results of your new filter....

Wow. Been away for a while and some interesting threads. Haven't checked mine yet...a sunny day? What's that?


I'm no expert but when I changed to the UNI at about 25k the stock filter didn't seem too dirty although there was a fair amount of dirt in the tray. The UNI on the other hand was filthy dirty after just a short while under the exact same driving conditions (very little dirt in the tray, however). This alone suggests to me the UNI is catching a lot more dirt than the OE filter was but as I say, I'm no expert. The amount of dirt that came out if it when cleaning was amazing. Luckily, I guess I followed other's good advice by pure coincidence and let it sit/set for 24hrs. before running it. See? Some good things have come out of this already! (assuming that's good advice)


I think most of the people here are more than willing to listen and work through these claims. We're all interested in what's best for our trucks. If I made such a claim, I would expect there to be some hefty cynacism and questioning. That's only natural. What's the big deal? I like Hoot's advice but in the interest of working through this, some questions need to be asked, scrutinized and perhaps even asked again. Those who do a lot of troubleshooting for a living will probably ask twice. It goes with the territory. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

I used a K&N w/FIPK very happily (ignorance is bliss) on my 4Runner for 100+k miles with a spotless inlet tube and good performance. When I bought the Duramax I went with the Amsoil because of recommendations about it and cautions about the K&Ns. When I finally got around to getting an oil analysis done, I was disappointed in the double digit dirt levels in my high-teens mileage truck, so I chucked the Amsoil, which always looked kind of second rate anyway, and put in a very nicely turned out UNI. So, now what to do? I haven't had time to check my very own filter, yet, which means at the moment I'm just bewildered, not disgruntled. But if mine resembles PC's I will join the moaning chorus.

Has anyone contacted UNI with a copy of this thread and the very real possibility that they are about to lose a lot of sales if they don't come across with real answers. If it is possible reliably to make high quality, high efficiency foam filters, as UNI's reputation suggests they can, why try to squeeze out a few bucks by selling a POS to a handful of suckers when you can make a pile of money over the long haul by doing it right and selling a whole lot?

Although it appears that not everyone is seeing the same problems with their filters, I want to thank PC for bringing this to our attention.

TC

nevermind I missinterpreted the question...


TannerEdited by: tanner

News flash ... this just in.


For some unknown reason there is a national back order on Chevrolet Duramax paper air filters due to the overwhelming sales the last week. Duramax owners are camping out in front of auto parts stores to increase their chance of purchasing a paper air filter before stock is depleted. Due to customer demand several dealers have increased filter prices "another" 200% and are offering a free cup of coffee to customers who purchase 5+ filters. Eye witness reports have also shown customers carrying filters out by the armful.


On a related note, area landfills across the US are reporting an excess deposit of used Uni air filters for some unknown and possibly related reason. While there is yet to be direct prove the incidents are any way related, it has people across the country confused and baffled.


Jim Paper Filter - Channel 6 News ... back to you Bill.

I checked mine today with only 2k miles since install, and yes I can see some small holes as shown by others. Checked tubing with clean white paper towel and no dirt or film. Could it be that under vacuum when engine running and with RPM that the filter compresses and closes these holes? Just a thought.

News flash ... this just in.


For some unknown reason there is a national back order on Chevrolet Duramax paper air filters due to the overwhelming sales the last week. Duramax owners are camping out in front of auto parts stores to increase their chance of purchasing a paper air filter before stock is depleted. Due to customer demand several dealers have increased filter prices "another" 200% and are offering a free cup of coffee to customers who purchase 5+ filters. Eye witness reports have also shown customers carrying filters out by the armful.


On a related note, area landfills across the US are reporting an excess deposit of used Uni air filters for some unknown and possibly related reason. While there is yet to be direct prove the incidents are any way related, it has people across the country confused and baffled.


Jim Paper Filter - Channel 6 News ... back to you Bill.





http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

OK

I spoke to Uni today. I have to send my filter in and they will examine it for defects. I asked him if I should be able to see light through it and he said "not straight through it, no". Maybe I will just drive over there. Either way it will cost me postage or diesel fuel.

I will keep everyone posted.......


The paper filter sucks. My truck feels like it has a parking brake on the turbo now. I can really feel a lag in boost and turbo spin up.

Maybe once I upload pics of the scoot, people will understand what my username stands for. I get questioned about it regularly.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif





Sinister blue pearl, and diamond ice...


Have you checked out the new closed loop injection from Daytona TwinTec? Delphi systems only as I understand. The only gauze (and it drives me nuckin futs) filter that I have is in here:


FXDWGBLKYEL





http://www.kennedydiesel.com/photogal/images/HARLEY.jpg








Actually Kennedy, it is Luxury Blue Pearl and Diamond Ice Pearl. Sinister blue is just slightly darker. I think the '01's were the first year for the Luxury Blue. I have read about the closed loop injection, but mine is an '01 and, IIRC, it has the Magneti-Marelli(sp?) injection system.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/DF2_myking1.jpg


BTW,I went to the Easyriders bike show last weekend. I will try to post some nice pics I took of other bikes in the Off Topic section in a few days.

News flash ... this just in.


For some unknown reason there is a national back order on Chevrolet Duramax paper air filters due to the overwhelming sales the last week. Duramax owners are camping out in front of auto parts stores to increase their chance of purchasing a paper air filter before stock is depleted. Due to customer demand several dealers have increased filter prices "another" 200% and are offering a free cup of coffee to customers who purchase 5+ filters. Eye witness reports have also shown customers carrying filters out by the armful.


On a related note, area landfills across the US are reporting an excess deposit of used Uni air filters for some unknown and possibly related reason. While there is yet to be direct prove the incidents are any way related, it has people across the country confused and baffled.


Jim Paper Filter - Channel 6 News ... back to you Bill.








Good one ..... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


But I would like to suggest we recycle .... Please bring some life back to your couch cushion or wife's craft projects .... Donate to schools ...


Wash your UNI,don't pollute, recycle your used foam ...





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

I am not exactly clear on the relation between air filter performance and oil cleanliness is? Most fuel and air stays on top of your piston. There are usually 3 rings on your piston attempting to keep the top of the piston separate from your crank case. Yes before an engine reaches operating temp. there is some extra clearance which would allow blow buy. However during normal operation there should not be much transfer from the top of the piston to the crankcase. I see dirt ending up in alot of other places than the oil. Has any one done the type of test where you actually poor dirt over an uni under vacum and then measured particulate count on the other side?





The same way soot gets in the oil....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


I should add that in their infancy, the Dmax engine tends to return high silicon results. For this reason, I change oil early and often.

I have a UNI, been installed for 18,000, intake is clean as a whistle, cleaned the filter a couple of times and reoiled. Very happy with it.

Cant believe I just read all of this........WTF.. Ill stick w/my afe and yellow prewrap

Regarding the question/statement:
"I am not exactly clear on the relation between air filter performance and oil cleanliness is?"
There is a direct relationship between intake dirt and oil analysis results, especially if one looks at spectrographic and particle counts. A nearly undetectable intake leak will result in immediate increases of contaminants in the engine oil.
I review literally hundreds of oil analysis results each day for both on and off highway equipment and have been doing so for 20+ years and can assure you that the direct correlation DOES indeed exist. However, one cannot just look at simple spectro results and feel totally comfortable that intake filtration is indeed taking place to the desired level as spectro is limited to 5 microns and less. Many times larger wear particles may go undetected, as is the case with many gauze type air filters. i.e. a person will get a spectro oil analysis result back showing relatively low silicon (dirt) levels yet a full spectrum particle count reveals a very high level of dirt contamination..
George Morrison, STLE CLS

I'm running an AEM Brute Force Intake with a K&N-like filter and you all had me so scared! I went out and ripped off the filter and swiped the tube with my finger only to find NOTHING. I guess that is a good thing (either that or the turbo just sucked all the dirt and nothing was left in the tube). Living in Tucson, AZ (one of the dustiest places I've ever been) I figured it would be loaded. It's got almost 8 thousand miles on the filter and it still seems pretty clean.


My guess is you got a bad UNI. I run UNI's on my dirtbikes and I race in the dirtiest, dustiest desert conditions and I'm very impressed with the UNI filters on the bikes. Personally, I think they filter better once there is a little build up of dirt on the filter.


I see no one is having problems with the AFE setup either...isn't that filter more like a K&N?

Yes,
We use FOAMEX matl:

THANKS FOR GOING WITH UNI FILTER... THE BEST AIR FILTERS ON EARTH!

UNI FILTER INC.
1468 S. MANHATTAN AVE.
FULLERTON, CA. 92831
PH. 714-535-6933
FX 714-535-6927

Kennedy An Geo


Are your oil samples being taken after the new secondary oil filter system of Kennedys or before. This could be a reason there is low silcon in your samples.


By the way when are you (John) gonna have the kit ready.


I put the Uni Cone in place of the K N and so far all is clean.


Geno

Has anyone ever tried using brake cleaner to clean a foam filter.


Geno

John,


You wrote:


The same way soot gets in the oil....http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


And how is that?


George,


I know you do not like gauze. I do not either, ever since I found the dirt in my intake tube. Problemchild found dirt in his intake tube. That was with an UNI foam. Others her have found dirt in there intake tube as well while running a UNI. Several people using the UNI or K&N have found no dirt. If you put test results and personal experience aside, how do you account for dirt in the intake tube? How can this be good for your motor?

I would speculate that lawnmowers went to paper because nobody wants to get their hands dirty, and they can be messy. A disposable paper filter is simple, AND generates parts revenue.

i got dozens of email about this topic, guess i shouldn't have set it to send emails when replies to the topic.

Lawnmowers throw away items? I think not. most people do not have $500+ every couple years or so to spend a new mower. Paper filters better and as pointed out by someone else usually cost more, the reason mower mfg's switched to paper is because foam does not filter as good and deteriorates.


Foam filters deteriorate and require replacement.
The fact is, as consumers demanded longer lasting engines and londer warranties mfg.s had to go with paper filters, just as they had done for years prior on the 'commercial' machines.


Also due to the tiny passages and crevices the foam filters cannot be cleaned thoroughly and over time more and more as more passages are uncleanable and those passages plug up, this results one of 2 things:
loss of airflow or
air flowing the path of least resistance will find the other weaker open passages deteriorating them further making more open passages and allowing more UNfiltered air in.
So they either plug up restricting flow or let more dirt in.
And as foam filters age they deteriorate and can even let go catastrophically letting the dirty filter foam parts and all the dirt on the outside then get sucked in to your turbo and engine!
I have seen this happen so would NEVER use foam on my vehicles.

Kennedy, I see you answer a lot of tech stuff, and 'speculate' am aweful lot, no offense meant,
just I'm curious.
What kind of schooling do you have in mechanics etc.
What certification or degrees?
I see you advertise here as a "turbo specialist"
What exactly is that?
What did you have to do to get that title?
or do you just call yourself that???

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif

Cant believe I just read all of this........WTF.. Ill stick w/my afe and yellow prewrap


The blue prewraps offer superior filteration compared to the yellow wraps http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Dieselpro...

That's a lot of in your face questions at someone that lays out for all to see from someone with no sig and 2 posts.

Lawnmowers.....

Picked up a nearly new Lawnboy out of the trash last year. All it needed was a cable. People throw them suckers away left and right. Air filter gets dirty, won't start, out it goes.
Edited by: hoot

My experience with JK is exactly the kind I want from a supplier.Straight talk and no BS based on years of experience is why I buy from John.


He can fight his own battles Trollhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

I would speculate that lawnmowers went to paper because nobody wants to get their hands dirty, and they can be messy. A disposable paper filter is simple, AND generates parts revenue.

i got dozens of email about this topic, guess i shouldn't have set it to send emails when replies to the topic.

Lawnmowers throw away items? I think not. most people do not have $500+ every couple years or so to spend a new mower. Paper filters better and as pointed out by someone else usually cost more, the reason mower mfg's switched to paper is because foam does not filter as good and deteriorates.


Foam filters deteriorate and require replacement.
The fact is, as consumers demanded longer lasting engines and londer warranties mfg.s had to go with paper filters, just as they had done for years prior on the 'commercial' machines.


Also due to the tiny passages and crevices the foam filters cannot be cleaned thoroughly and over time more and more as more passages are uncleanable and those passages plug up, this results one of 2 things:
loss of airflow or
air flowing the path of least resistance will find the other weaker open passages deteriorating them further making more open passages and allowing more UNfiltered air in.
So they either plug up restricting flow or let more dirt in.
And as foam filters age they deteriorate and can even let go catastrophically letting the dirty filter foam parts and all the dirt on the outside then get sucked in to your turbo and engine!
I have seen this happen so would NEVER use foam on my vehicles.

Kennedy, I see you answer a lot of tech stuff, and 'speculate' am aweful lot, no offense meant,
just I'm curious.
What kind of schooling do you have in mechanics etc.
What certification or degrees?
I see you advertise here as a "turbo specialist"
What exactly is that?
What did you have to do to get that title?
or do you just call yourself that???




Certifications don't mean squat in separating a good tech from a bad one. Take it from someone who's first creeper was a upside down coke crate with wheels on it hanging out w/dad under the rigs and farming machinery. (learning) From a standpoint of supervising several MECHANICS, operators, and techs, some of which have papers and some who do not I suggest you re-type your cert in braile then shove it up that little spot where the sun don't shine to read it. Without hands on that's about what it's worth. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Down.gifEdited by: a bear

Dieselpro,


Did Einstine get a highschool diploma? What college did he attend? Heck, was he really good in math or is E=MC 2' just a mistake? ........... Questions, questions. You sound like the Major that just got out of school giving orders to the Captain who's been in the trenches for 6 weeks. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif


Burner

Amen Burnerhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

based on years of experience is why I buy from John.

So tell me, how many years???http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Question.gif
i recall him only in recent years coming on the scene, and asking a lot of questions... then started selling stuff.
just wondering where the "specialist" stuff and attitude come from?

He can fight his own battles Troll

If this is a battle and he can fight his own, then with the #@!! are you doing it for him??? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Troll??? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif
i guess you missed the part where i wrote "no offense meant, just I'm curious."
what could i possibly be 'trolling' for other than information?

I just asked some questions based on my observations, and I'm under attack, nice forum! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Down.gif

I can see from you going on the offensive that he has NO verifiable certifications and NO verifiable degrees.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif And the 'specialist' is self proclaimed... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Throw Up.gif

Lawnmowers throw away items? I think not. most people do not have $500+ every couple years or so to spend a new mower.


Kennedy, I see you answer a lot of tech stuff, and 'speculate' am aweful lot, no offense meant,
just I'm curious.
What kind of schooling do you have in mechanics etc.
What certification or degrees?
I see you advertise here as a "turbo specialist"
What exactly is that?
What did you have to do to get that title?
or do you just call yourself that???




FWIW, my "lawn tractor" is a 1958 IH Farmall 140 with a 60" belly mower. No paper filter, no foam filter, it has an oil bath filter. I wouldn't trade it for any new "lawn tractor". I regularly buy/scavenge push mowers for little or nothing, repair/replace water with gas/change filters/etc and sell them for a decent profit. I do the same with "lawn tractors" and weed trimmers.


Diesel Pro, I don't know you or what kind of knowledge you bring to the table, but I think you may want to tone it down a bit about Kennedy. I am fairly new to the forums, but I have a lot of experience in maintenance, troubleshooting, and repairs. Regardless of schooling, certifications, or degrees, Kennedy tends to be a great source of knowledge.

I'm with Bronco ...


This seems to fit well http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif


All I know it looks like the http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/3C9_CircusInTown.gifAnd you wait till head ring leader Superman gets his ski boots off,then the whip will crack on the lions and bears backs ...


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif





Edited by: Mackin

"If this is a battle and he can fight his own, then with the #@!! are you doing it for him??? "

The technical forums aren't neccessarily the place to battle. Although some do occur... we ask that you keep the personal jabs to a minimum, if at all. Vendors are tagged as such so you know they are vendors. They have the right to "sell" their products as do advertisers on TV and in magazines. They are all out to make money (it's a living) and some of them actually enjoy trucks like the rest of us and have some great experiences with the willingness to spread some of it out. Don't knock them for it. Sure you have to be careful... DUHHH

Dieselpro..... Hmmm... with a name like that, sounds like you have a degree? OOps sorry.... moderator privledge http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif
I don't have one. (degree) I'm an Ex-Spurt
An Ex is a has-been and a Spurt is a drip under pressure.

Foam filters...

I think you can get them as clean as new if you do a real thorough job of repeated soaking and wringing out. I do it till the solution no longer comes out dirty than after rinsing the filter looks brand new.

Lawn mower manufacturers possibly use paper because its a much simpler install on the manufacturing line. They don't have to worry about oiled foam and the preperation of it before loading it into the product. The end user probably might be more willing to change a paper filter than to soak and clean an oiled foam one. I think that's the main reason.

Big bucks selling entire replacement filters as opposed to selling none at all with the foam style. Wouldn't vendors sell more product if they pushed paper?

Now from the other side....
How come HEPA filters aren't made out of foam?Edited by: hoot

I came kicking and screaming to the UNI air filter installation as I have been a devout advocate of paper/OEM for years after having been burned more than once with non-paper element performance. I promoted a major paper alternative study for a large mining company I worked for in that we were spending over $30,000 a month on paper filter replacements. As a young cub engineer it made total sense to use washable, re-usable elements that, according to one gauze manufacturer's brochure, "filters better than paper".. Unfortunately in real world tests all of the non-paper mediums failed miserably in the tests and I, the initiator of the test program, got to have a serious one on one with the the president of the company which I remember vividly to this day 25 years later...
Soooo, through the years I have been a confirmed paper advocate! However, I have been plagued with continuous high dirt levels in both our 6.5TD and Duramax equipped with OEM air filterrs, along with attendant high wear metals. After switching to the UNI foam filters, both of the vehicle's dirt levels reduced significantly along with wear metal rate. Both vehicles had regular spectro, particle counts and occasional ferrographies to verify..
Additionally, on some other Duramax UNI equipped vehicles, the oil analysis wear rate results were startingly good; among the lowest Duramax oil analysis results on file out of many hundreds of Duramax results I review. (I have one construction company I work with that has 200+ Duramax eqiupped units)
George Morrison, STLE CLS

Georgecls

You wont be getting low dirt counts with the Uni I pulled out of my truck. I have never in my life seen an intake tube that had that much dirt in it.

On a side note I have never seen an intake tube that was dirty while using a oem paper element unless I had seated it wrong.

Both my 6.5TD and Duramax have reflected significantly reduced dirt, wear metals and particle counts with the UNI vs. OEM paper..
So, in terms of quantitative, real numbers, the UNI air filters I have on my two vehicles is performing better than the OEM paper at this point in time..
I will, of course, continue oil analysiis to include particle counts to ascertain if performance level continues..
George Morrison

John,


You wrote:


The same way soot gets in the oil....http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


And how is that?








You're serious aren't you? For a guy with as many posts comments and opinions, I'd surely think you'd understand the basics of internal combustion and blowby and cylinder lubrication.... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


PS, if this same question were asked by a newbie, I'd be a lot more patient.

Kennedy,


I already know how an internal combustion engine works I just wanted to hear your take on things. I am sorry you feel like your expertize is being questioned here but that is just the way it is. You and Georege have acheived an almost cult like following here on the place and other discussion boards. Weather it be by your expertize or persasive powers? Just because some of us do not go around listing our credintels and claiming to be experts does not mean that we are not intelligent or well versed in the internal combustion engine and automobile industry. I have a proven track record of success. I also have degrees in related fields. I am new to the Dmax scene and prefer to take a cautious approach to the mods. I perform on my truck. I do not have to take what you and other self proclaimed experts state as gosepel. If you guys have your act together than you will not mind a little critisizm and questioning. It goes with the territory. I can guarente this. When I am finished with my research I will have a performer! I will except no less! I do not want to sound ungreatfull here. Every bit of testing and modification you and otheres have done is great. We would not be where we are with out you. I responded to an earlier post by diesel pro with an icon of SCHOCKED for good reason. He directly called your credintials to the carpet. Nobody as far as I know has ever done that to you or George here on the place. I understang Dieselpros thinking but not neccasarly his tatics. If you have got your act together you will have no problems backing up any accusations with solid truths. Thank you all for particiapating in these discussions.Edited by: Bronco

Bronco - I don't mean any disrespect here, but George is not a self-proclaimed expert. he has certs, patents, etc. but prefers not to list them as riding on them just isn't his style. while cult followings do sometimes exist, i doubt this is the case here. I know what George does for a living and have talked to him at length on many occasions. He is a very intelligent (and qualified) individual who really enjoys this research we do on our trucks. He gets very excited when we make breakthroughs and is involved because he likes it. I will go out on a limb and say he has been one of, if not THE, most polite and generous persons i've had the pleasure of talking to since buying my Dmax. If you are curious about his talents or qualifications, i would encourage you to call him and ask questions related to the research we're doing. I do warn you though that he really enjoys the information we are sharing and will talk to you at great length. He has access to a vast amount of real-world test data for our trucks and I have learned a lot from him.


If i have misconstrued what you said, I apologize.


Nick

I like George and JK and all but I aint drinking no spiked koolaid for you 2 http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif

Nick,


I have no problems with George. I included his name because I feel all of his responses are the same and he never adress the question directly. I have asked the following questions and have had no direct response.


1. Are there test resulte to prove the lubiciaty of primrose? Such as the same test Rotella DFA has undergone?


2. Has the UNI ever been tested on a test stand for flow through particle count.


I am trying to respect Georege and have great interest in his post, however vague answers do not always equate to real world results. I am sure as soon as George reads this post he will post the test results and silence me once again.

George.
I will trade my dirt leaking uni for your perfect non dirt better then oem paper uni.

If your up for it.

Regarding putting a UNI or any other filter on a 'test stand'; in my previous posts I have related that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to duplicate real world conditions in a turbo-charged diesel engine application. With exceedingly high air flow velocities and particles traveling at 100+ mph when encountering an air filter, with varying types of contamination, a difficult assignment.
"Test Dirt" just does not duplicate real world dirt.. I am relating my 'real world' numbers of both spectographic AND particle counts.
There has been a lot of UNI bashing going on but I have seen no numbers backing up the statements.. i.e. what was the spectro/particle count BEFORE the UNI and then AFTER the UNI??
I have the "before & after" reflecting a significant improvement in filtration with the UNI compared with paper..
George

George, can you post the results of these before and after UNI filter oil analysis reults? And, can you also make note of the ones which had additional oil filtration? Did the ones with additional oil filtration have the same additional oil filtration before the UNI?




No filter is absolute.* If there was an excessively dusty situation, there could well have been some dust pulled thru, but with the oiled filter, it is highly unlikely.* For dirt to "thread the needle" through a complicated path of oiled foam is not an easy task whether there are a few tiny pinholes or not...


*


*
If a human hair is 100 microns, and a pin is maybe 300 microns wide, then a pin hole is let's say 200 microns in diameter. If the damaging dirt is 5-10 microns, then a 7 micron dirt particle will travel through a pin hole like a rock thrown down a narrow hallway.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif . Since the damaging dirt is microscopic, a visible pin hole is like a busted dam. Not Good!

My scepticism of the claims of after market mfg's demands some sort of real world comparison. In my opinion these after market mfg's have the data comparing themselves to other filters but choose not to share it......WHY??? Maybe because it would not be consistent with their inflated claims.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Pinch.gif
Upon repeated asking UNI sent me a lab test that showed their filter was 100% efficient at the 5-10 micron size.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gif I'll tell you, if I had a filter that could do that I would NAME my filter "100%". But in the UNI info on their page they never once even mention filtration efficiency compared to other filters or use any numbers to reinforce their product.

I agree with George. Data and real world results are tough. The types of dirt you will encounter are region specific. Some dirt may filter very well in an oiled-foam filter. Some dirt won't. A lab test cannot possibly duplicate all of the types of dirt we will encounter and therefore could be misleading. SPICEREdited by: SPICER

"Test Dirt" just does not duplicate real world dirt..

This is going to sound like I am being nasty and argumentative, but please understand I really don't mean to be. How can we test the living daylights out of fuel filters, but not air filters? I haven't received SAE paper 940322 ("Comparison of Real-Life Dust Samples and Standardized Test Dusts" by Bessee and Kohl-referenced in the injector wear study paper), so maybe that will answer my question when I read it.

I am a believer in reusable foam filters. I think the other factors (electrostatic interaction, eddy currents, etc) that affect filter performance play a larger role than just being able to see light through it. That being said, though, I would like to see some test data on the subject.Edited by: habanero

You just have to get a stock air box and hook it up to a 6-800 CFM air pump with an inline white filter. This is as real as it gets!

Well George doesnt want my dirt sucking uni so i snuck down to the courthouse and bolted it on Michael Jacksons car.

I'm thinking there could be some physical/mechanical dynamics of the foam element(s) during actual use that could enter the equations. Something along the lines of shifting/flexing/vibration etc. That is, I'm wondering if pinholes may be normal ~ it'd be nice to have a looksee of several unused elements to see if its consistantly so ~ some have installed elements that have no holes but 'may' have' had when initially installed before the question came up.


In chkg out my oem yesterday, I noticed my freshair side of the box is cracked near the gasket area of the filter. Fortunately, it (gasket) is sealing it well enuff ~ still concerned until we can glean more info.

Yesterday I took advantage of the beautifully bright and sunny opportunity to hold my UNI up to the light and look for light. I found it. Tiny pin points of light revealed themselves, but only if I moved the filter around a bit. In other words, the light did not come pouring through, I had to find it. Whether what I saw was the end product of light's reflected journey through a labyrinth of oily passages or a straight shot I can't say. The intake tube was absolutely clean, but my filter has only been on for 2,000 miles and I haven't been off road at all during that time. I'm going to leave my filter on until my next oil change and have George do another analysis before making up my mind on what to do next.

TC

Well those results are better than my K&N! No movement or labrynth required. Just straight unobstructed destruction. It really pains me to say that. I use to love K&N.

I have my air filter box on the kitchen table and have made some very interesting observations. First...I am using the stock paper filter and my intake tube is very clean. I spent over an hour a couple of months ago cleaning out an oily/dirty film as a result of my older-style Amsoil oiled filter.

Kennedy mentioned the air filter life indicator as a possible air/dirt leak location. Mine is tight and no dirt in the viscinity.

Of biggest interest is the rubber perimeter of my OE filter. The very top rim of the rubber (while looking down at the clean side) is the primary sealing surface. Mine is very irregular and does not seem that it would seal very well. I looked at the lid of the airbox at the sealing surface of the plastic. I could match the pattern of the irregular surface of the filter's rubber with the imprint it left on the plastic, including a few gaps where the rubber surface was especially poor and irregular!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

However, I did already say that my intake tube was clean.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

So for now I took a tube of silicone gasket maker and applied a thin film across the top of the filter's rubber sealing surface (a little thicker in the obvious gaps). I know that the rubber is compressed when the filter housing is screwed down, but remember the gaps in the pattern left on the air filter housing lid?

The other thing I observed is how easy it would be to use our stock air box to conduct a real world filter efficiency test. I have mentioned it before, but here is the basic premise....On bobistheoilguy.com an individual tested multiple air filters by using a sheet of filter paper as a post-filter, essentially capturing what the original filter missed. He ran each of the test filters for 500 miles with the post filters in place. He did each filter multiple times to create a trend, and compared the reults(he did a lot more than this including flow tests etc...) Ultimately he observed that even to his surprise the Amsoil and K&N let the most dirt past and the OE paper performed the best. (this was done on a mazda sports car....read the study...fascinating.

I would love to do the same on our trucks. Some things that would be needed include....new filters to be tested, a few cheaper air filters to be used as post-filter material, a scale that is accurate to 1/100th of a gram, and a couple of objective volunteers to be the test vehicles. The more testers the more relevant the results and the more significant the data......Anyone?

On edit, it would be best if the test vehicles were in the same proximity, or a couple of proximities in order to control some of the variables. SPICEREdited by: SPICER

K&N offers a gasket that fits in the top lip of your air box. It creates a very good sealing surface if installed correctly. This gasket will work with all filters by the way.


I had the gasket installed correctly with my K&N and still had dirt in the tube.


ON EDIT: Give me a method and material that will not get sucked into my motor and I will test the K&N for you.Edited by: Bronco

Spicer,
Thank you for the BobistheOilguy reference on the Mazda air filter setup. However, I have fears about putting any sort of ultra-fine medium between the filter and our turbocharger inlet. The amount and velocity of air a turbo can require is *huge* and I could see a filter medium being sucked into the turbo..
I am speaking from experience. I tried a vaguely similar experiment years ago and, you guessed it, kaplooeyy, one turbo...
With naturally asperated engines airflows are reasonble; with a turbo at full tilt, one air hungry machine...
George Morrison

George, thanks for the advice, and quite frankly this is my biggest concern/obstacle also.


If you remove the airbox as a unit and look into it from the clean side, there are 3 posts coming down from the lid of the airbox down to just above the metal mesh of the airfilter. There is maybe 1/8 inch clearance between the posts and the OE filter( I don't know how much clearance a UNI provides as I don't have one). This is enough space to sandwich a flat, unfolded piece of filter paper and a screen. A typical Fram filter that fits our airbox would be disassembled and the paper used for the post filter and the mesh screen used for the reinforced backing material. Each sheet of post filter would be cut to match the flat/clean side of our filters as well as the backing mesh.


Now, how to be sure it won't get sucked into the turbo. It would definitely be more expensive, but each post filter could be bonded to the mesh at the edges and made a little oversized so that as the airbox is sandwiched together it will secure the post filter in place. This has to be done in a secure, airtight, and consistent/repeatable fashion. I have gears turning, any suggestions?


I say that this would be more expensive because I would need multiple filters to disassemble. The mesh screens would not be re-usable because they would be bonded to the test paper, and these units need to stay intact so they can be weighed, etc... SPICER

Spicer,


I was thinking about your quest to test. Although the Dmax might pull alot of air at high velocitys, I do not think this is required to perform a test. There are also some who refer to eddie currents and other conditions that only can happen under real life conditions. Neither of these situations are required to perform a simple flow through particle count.


I think if you hook your airbox to an air source whether it be vacum or pressure you can perform a test. I have the biggest BA shop vac from home depot. (STOP LAUGHING) You could hook it up to blow through to the (inlet) side of the airbox. You could then put a white filter on the outlet side of the airbox.(Dmax inlet tube). You could then introduce dirt into the suction side of the shop vac. If there is dirt in the white filter then you have your answer. I know this test in no way identicaly mimics real life conditions. However this test is actually much more forgiving than real life. If your air filter fails this test then you can only imagine what's happening in real life.

From experience (also referred to as scar tissue), I can relate that turbocharger air inlet speeds can approach 100+ mph. This is a very important component and that which elevates air filter testing above the vacuum cleaner level capability. When we have impact velocities of this order, what works theoretically, may not work in reality... When a particle strikes a surface with such a high velocity, it may have the mass to penetrate the medium.. Which I can verify!
Which goes back to the K&N: if you can see daylight through it, that particle traveling at 100+ MPH is NOT going to be captured by a tackifier. It simply does not work....
Which is why the foam, in theory, works in that we have an oil coated labrinth for the dirt to circuit prior to entry. As opposed to the simple screen door aspect of paper..
Again, I have come to the UNI kicking and screaming as I have had nothing but significant, costly, substantiated failure experiences with all medium but paper to this point.

Bronco, I have given your idea a lot of thought in the past, trying to come up with some sort of "test stand" that would give repeatable testing bouts. I do agree with George that a simple vacuum would not recreate the velocities needed to simulate the conditions our air filters encounter. Does anyone know the range of AIR VOLUME our trucks use? A fan/blower duplicating an average volume of air encountered by our DMax would work.........However I do not like the idea of using "test dust".


When I was in college studying indoor and outdoor air quality and testing, I remember a test station we used on campus. It was a BIG fan with a big screen above it. We put a BIG layer of filter paper on it and turned on that beast for 24 hours. At that point the 2'x2' sheet of filter paper was BLACK. WE knew the volume of air filtered and the weight diference of the paper told us the dirt content...We could calculate ppm of airborne particulate etc....A test stand would need to have a heavy duty fan and would need to run for the equivalent of 500-1000 miles, or about24 hours. I actually have a spare inlet tube for the DMax, just need a filter box and a big a** fan and some filters. Anyone in SE Wisconsin have a big a** fan? I do need to know the DMax's air flow range.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif Truly this would be best. I only drive 250 miles a week in the winter. A test stand could simulate 1000 miles a day and multiple tests could be repeated. And even though it would not be under a hood, it is still atmospheric dirt. I LIKE!!! SPICER

Which goes back to the K&N: if you can see daylight through it, that particle traveling at 100+ MPH is NOT going to be captured by a tackifier. It simply does not work....


I'm new to this and read almost all of this thread.

But I could not resist the above quote on the K&N by George.

ProblemChild and others see daylight through their foam uni's Why doesn't this same theory quoted above apply to the uni?

Not flaming at all, but if you see daylight through one brand and it's bad. Why when you see daylight through another (uni) it is good?

I'll trash my K&N and will not buy a Uni either,

Seems to me they all have problems. I'll go back to paper, screw the extra airflow! (not that it probably benefited my 90hp O.J. with swiss cheese airbox anyway I rarely run it past level II), I'm not pushing my luck.
Looks like paper is safer "for now". Now all I got to do is find a stock airbox to put a paper filter in. Anybody got a part # to get one from GM partsdirect?

JMHO

Pepperidge
non-expertEdited by: pepperidge

Just a quick word on shop vacs. I have a 6 or 7 year old Craftsman. It stills blows just as good as when it was new. I think it's a 5hp model. Bottom line, they say it blows at 200mph and the newer ones are even faster. If it's velocity you're looking for I don't see why a decent shop vac wouldn't work.

I guess a good one, if it meets the air volume, would work. However it would need to be able to run 24 hours a day for MANY days. SPICER

..........ProblemChild and others see daylight through their foam uni's Why doesn't this same theory quoted above apply to the uni?

Not flaming at all, but if you see daylight through one brand and it's bad. Why when you see daylight through another (uni) it is good?

...........
JMHO

Pepperidge
non-expert


You could be right ~ however, consider that the uni has two foam elements ~ the primary one is quite thick and together, they are much much thicker than the K&N medium. Like comparing an aperature/doorway to a long tunnel. I know my grandson can make it to the doorway ok ~ but chances are, he'll draw pix's on the hallway walls.


No one has addressed the dynamics of the uni in actual usage ~ does the 'pin hole' in each stay in alignment? W/o something else, its anyones guess.

[/QUOTE]

You could be right ~ however, consider that the uni has two foam elements ~ the primary one is quite thick and together,*they are*much much thicker than the K&N medium.


No one has addressed the dynamics of the uni in actual usage ~ does the 'pin hole' in each stay in alignment? W/o something else, its anyones guess.


*[/QUOTE]

Don't know about the pin hole stayin in alignment, but should we take that chance?

Probably not.


Pepperidge

Regarding the pinholes through the UNI air filter and my comments relating to the K&N/gauze type element and daylight. My Uni filters that I installed on my 6.5TD and Duramax did not show 'pinholes' when held up to the light.
The emperical results of oil analysis/particle counts for UNI filter eqiupped Duramax/6.5TD's have been among the lowest dirt levels we have reviewed.. So my comments were relative to excellent data, not subjective..
As I indicated, my Duramax had been plagued with relatively high dirt levels/particle counts and the dirt/particle counts reduced signficantly with the addition of the UNI air filter.
So, has anyone's oil analysis/particle counts reflected an increase when switching from paper to the UNI air filter?? Of the 20 or so UNI switches from paper, every single case reflected a decrease in silicon/dirt AND particle counts.. Which is exactly the opposite in 98% of the cases with oiled gauze air filters..
We have had a lot of UNI air filter bashing occur, yet no emperical data backing the bashing/trashing...
George Morrison
Edited by: Georgecls

ShumDit "sumdit" up well in his analogy about the grandson.


The K&N would be like a wide doorway to the kitchen, and the Uni would be like a lengthy hallway.


I'll add that the gauze filter has dozens if not more holes whereas the Uni (and I still haven't seen any direct holes) has a handful at best of MUCH smaller holes.





I wonder whare the test data for the paper filter as applied to the Duramax is? George, you have much more patience than I...

Dirt on the walls of the intake tube = dirt in the engine! PERIOD.

Dirt on walls, dirt in engine, agreed. However, there are those of us who do not have dirt on the walls with UNI and no dirt in the engine, in fact just the opposite, emperically less dirt in the engine with the UNI than with paper...
We seem to have variability, somehow, in the UNI performance. You are reporting increase in dirt, I am reporting decrease in contaminants/dirt with UNI.. Could the dirt be coming from a source other than the air filter element. i.e. sealing, filter-minder (which are notorious for leaking), etc.?? Have you checked your induction system closely for leaks?
And, of cousre, I do NOT sell UNI air filters nor do I have any relationship with anyone who does. My only desire is to provide the best, most effective filtration for my 6.5TD and Duramax which encounter servere dust/dirt in daily driving.
George MorrisonEdited by: Georgecls

Bronco..

George is right. Intakes can be tricky. Any place where air can get around the filter ruins the point of using a great filter.

As far as pin holes are concerned.... I would raise bloddy murder with the supplier/manufacturer if there truly are pinholes. Nobody else seems to have them.

Manufacturing defects? Possible counterfeit?


I agree witht he some do some don't theory. There seems to be alot of that over the internet and with the GM truck in general.

George,

Don't get so defensive, I was not bashing the UNI I'm just wondering why The Pinholes in the UNI haven't been addressed. It would be easier for you to say that few purchasers got a few bad UNI's and should seek a replacement. I know now K&N isn't the best for your truck but to some who don't even know there UNI's have holes in it (which I am sure there has to be some, not everyone is a member here to see this thread.)
Their UNI's could be causing future problems. Not many companies have perfect batch runs much less 100% of the time. I believe these guys got a bad product, plain and simple. Whether it is a normal occurence has yet to be determined. I agree the thread is a little strong worded subject wise, but let em' speak their mind. and maybe suggest they pursue a refund or a replacement. Thats fair. But I will exercise my right not to buy certain products if no one can answer what's happening with these products.(I was seriously considering switching to the UNI until this came up)


PepperidgeEdited by: pepperidge

I am not getting 'defensive'. I have nothing to defend! I am only sharing information and performance data I have on numerous UNI equipped vehicles..
I am not trying to defend 'pin-holes'... As I indicated in my previous posts, my UNI's did not exhibit the 'pin hole' effect. To trash the whole UNI series when in fact the person may well have a defective unit(s), yes, a bit strong indeed. Did the person contact UNI? What did they say?? etc. etc..
George Morrison
Edited by: Georgecls

Dirt on the walls of the intake tube = dirt in the engine! PERIOD.





Wasn't someone just asking how dirt in the intake got into the oil?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

Uni has two thick layers of foam. Problemchilds filter showed the holes to be all the way through both, what are the chances of holes alighning up when put together at manufacturer especially this many. Could there be a chance that someone has it in for him and has done this to get even. Just a thought.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


Geno

I am looking for the CFM of our air intakes. I did a search and have seen everything from 300-800 CFM. 800 sounds like way too much. If someone has CFM for a certain rpm, such as 1500-2000rpm, that would be useful too. SPICER

I am not getting 'defensive'. I have nothing to defend! I am only sharing information and performance data I have on numerous UNI equipped vehicles..
I am not trying to defend 'pin-holes'... As I indicated in my previous posts, my UNI's did not exhibit the 'pin hole' effect. To trash the whole UNI series when in fact the person may well have a defective unit(s), yes, a bit strong indeed. Did the person contact UNI? What did they say?? etc. etc..
George Morrison


I'll take these one by one.
__________________________________________________ ______
George: I am not getting 'defensive'. I have nothing to defend! I am only sharing information and performance data I have on numerous UNI equipped vehicles...
-----------------------------------------------------
Didn't mean to get you that riled up. but every post was a defense of the uni when all I thought was necessary was to admit some might be flawed.
__________________________________________________ ______
George: My UNI's did not exhibit the 'pin hole' effect.
--------------------------------------------------------
Great! But what about the guys who have it? or the poor unsuspecting ones that don't know they have them.
Quality control should be a concern for everyone interested in purchasing one.
__________________________________________________ _____

George: To trash the whole UNI series when in fact the person may well have a defective unit(s), yes, a bit strong indeed.
------------------------------------------------------

I'll have to rule with you on that one! But I still would not buy until someone steps up (UNI) and addresses the issue. (bad batch of foam from their source etc.) No company wants to be the subject of a recall if this is the case. Julian codes or production dates on filter boxes could isolate this to a certain run of their filters.
__________________________________________________ ___

George:Did the person contact UNI? What did they say?? etc. etc..

-----------------------------------------------------

From what I've read,(I might have missed something) No.

I don't think it was pursued nearly enough through the right channels.
All I know is this forum could only be a small sample of what production problems could really be out there. Then again, it could be extremely coincidental that the guys who stated they have problems are the only ones in the world with the "PinHoles" (highly unlikely though)
__________________________________________________ ___

So I'll sit on the fence till UNI makes some sort of statement about what happened and how common this occurence is.

Pepperidge
Edited by: pepperidge

I've been off the board for a week and just read through the three pages that I've missed. I've mentioned it before, and I feel that it bears repeating - FILTER MEDIUM THICKNESS. A K&N and a paper filter, no matter how many pleats offer only ONE LAYER's thickness of their filtering medium. That's it folks! One thickness of gauze or paper between clean & dirty! Any oiled foam filter offers 3/4 to 1" of oily foam "channels". The foam wins hands down just on filter medium thickness! To repeat an earlier analogy - the paper/gauze is an open doorway, the foam is a long hallway with flypaper on the floor, walls and ceiling, and if not defective - a dogleg turn in the middle!

I have had my UNI in for approximately 1k. I have about 23k on my truck and ran paper prior. Upon install I had to clean a s**t load of crap out of my intake. I checked my UNI 2 days ago along with the intake. Intake was spotless, however it should be noted that is has not been very dusty lately (my road is covered in snow now turned mush with the rain). I had to search very, very hard to see even the slightest form of light shining through (nice and sunny 2 days ago). I will keep my UNI in for now and will monitor it closely, especially when the good ole NV dust arises.





Steven

I am looking for the CFM of our air intakes. I did a search and have seen everything from 300-800 CFM. 800 sounds like way too much. If someone has CFM for a certain rpm, such as 1500-2000rpm, that would be useful too. SPICER








Ican answer your question about air used


Stock D-max WOT 4th gear


RPM Grams per second


2436 250


2483 285


2550 306


2583 324


2677 330


2748 335


2766 345


2820 350


2858 358


2916 368


2977 377


3015 384


3065 391


3076 394


3159 396


3202 399


Now on a modified D-max we see well above 550 grams per second air flowhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifEdited by: Diesel Tech

[/QUOTE]


Ican answer your question about air used


Now on a modified D-max we see well above 550 grams per second air flowhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


[/QUOTE]


Diesel Tech, What is grams per second? Grams of air? What is the weight of a cubic foot of air? SPICER

Spicer,


If you cannot convert grams per second you can also calculate CFM as follows. (3200x400/3456) x VE. Ve or volumetric efficiency is now the tricky part. A perfect naturally aspirated gas motor is 100%VE. A turbo diesel will be higher and also fluctuate with boost.


Idle Chatter,


In regards to filter thickness, AFE has adressed this issue by creating a filter with 4 layers of gauze gradually getting smaller in size. I still do not nesecarily believe in it's quality any more than the rest.

Well here`s my .02 worth. I took the UNI out of my truck today and held it up to the sun and there were a few, not many , very small pin holes in it and I do mean small. I could only see about 1 hole at a time when it was directly lined up with the sun. I then took out a KN spare I had and held it up to the sun. Holy cr#p, I couldn`t beleive the sunlight that came through it. Needless to say the UNI went back in the truck and I think the KN is headed to the land fill. Did the paper towel test on the intake tube also and it came out nice and clean.





Jomar

Yeah the K&N in my truck was a piece of junk as well. I am currently running the original ACDELCO that came with my truck untill I choose a suitable replacement.Spicer is crafting a test bench and when he gets it finished, I will send him 4 brand new filters to test. He can send me back the best one! Edited by: Bronco

I did some research and found this..... 1 liter of air = 1.19 grams.


There are 28.316 liters in a cubic foot.


So 28.316 x 1.19 = 33.69 grams per cubic foot.


At 3000 rpm our trucks swallow 384 grams of air per second.


384 gps divided by 33.69 grams per cubic foot = 11.39 cu ft per second x 60 seconds = 683 cubic feet per minute! Like George said, that is one air hungry machine!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


2500 rpm is at about 535 cubic ft per minute.


Now if I can find a blower fan to produce this for a test stand... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif


AND convince my wife I won't burn the house down...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif SPICER

That puts the dmax at 175% VE at 3200RPM. Not to shabby!

Spicer,


This might help?http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611755956&ccitem=


If you plumbed this down to the airbox tube size you would pick up the velocity you are after. An automatic timer that fluctuated the input votage or adjusted somthing would give you the fluctuations you need. Just look around Grainger. They have everything. There is a wharehouse 40 minutes from my house. I can check out details for you?

Their was a comment several post back that foam is foam. No foam is not foam. The trick it to get a very dence pore count and still have good flow. What ie the pore density of the Uni?





Greg

Bronco, this is the type blower I was thinking, but my goal is to spend very little money. I have some ideas of where to look, and it may take time. If I was a research scientist with a big grant, I would just start buying! I am also going to need a scale that weighs accurately to 1/100 of a gram. Either electronic or a tripple beam/balance scale. Anyone have one I can borrow?


My initial thought is to do a straightforeward comparison of a UNI and a OEM. I would run them back to back, alternating, for atleast 3 samples each. I don't think I would do extensive comparisons of multiple types/brands of filters. I have family that is priority.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif SPICER

For cheap lab equipment, check labx.com. Just a quick search turned up several cheap balances.

Also, a quick question about your methodology. How are you going to assure the material you are collecting on the "clean" side of the filter is all dirt? I would worry that an oiled-foam filter may be losing tiny drops of oil that would contaminate your collection apparatus and give a biased weight reading. Do you plan to rinse the collector with an appropriate solvent to eliminate this problem? I think it is very commendable you are taking on this project yourself and I look forward to seeing your results.

Idle Chatter,


In regards to filter thickness, AFE has adressed this issue by creating a filter with 4 layers of gauze gradually getting smaller in size. I still do not nesecarily believe in it's quality any more than the rest.





Okay, so 4 layers of gauze "addresses" the issue? What's that total for medium thickness? 1/16", 1/8"? Not even close!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

Also, a quick question about your methodology. How are you going to assure the material you are collecting on the "clean" side of the filter is all dirt? I would worry that an oiled-foam filter may be losing tiny drops of oil that would contaminate your collection apparatus and give a biased weight reading. Do you plan to rinse the collector with an appropriate solvent to eliminate this problem?
Habanero, According to the menufacturers claims, oil does enter the air flow on the clean side. This, however, is a claim and to be determined. On bobistheoiolguy.com a test of air filters was conducted and is the template that I would like to use for my own study. This individual found the AMSOIL to be as bad as the K&N at allowing dirt to pass. AMSOIL in one breath claimed that oil does not contaminate the clean side ( and poosibly damage the MAF sensors) and in another breath blamed the very stained/dark post filter on oil contamination! Whatever!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gif
In order to quantify the possibility of oil on the clean side/post filter, accurate measurements of the main filter AND post filter both before and after sampling must be done (hence the need for a good scale). If the UNI looses weight after its test run, it probably lost oil to the post filter. SPICER

How do you expect the filter to lose weight? If it is filtering the air (i.e. gathering dust), I would expect it to gain weight. I think trying to quantify lost oil in that way would be difficult at best. I still think the best way to account for the oil on the post filter is to carefully rinse the filter with a solvent, put the rinsate into a tared vial, evaporate the solvent, then reweigh the vial. Of course care needs to be taken so that no "dust" is lost in the rinsing process. A buchner funnel and a side-arm flask would make that much easier to assure. Those should be pretty easy to attain, I would think. Heck, if you want, I could certainly help you with that part of the process. Just have to send me the filter papers.

About the only cheap thing to do would be to run a stack setup with the uni being the second filter and a paper as the first filter. Run the test stand for say 2 hours time then weigh the UNI as a base start point. Remove the paper filter and start test of UNI. This method would pull any extra oil out of the UNI prior to testing and keep the air borne dirt in the paper filter. This would allow you to repeat the test with any oil type filter with a repeatable starting point.

Well my paper filter on my Jeep dosn't stop dust the intake tube is DIRTY.

Back to a comment made earlier, and I may be wrong, but unless the intake was thoroughly inspected/wiped clean prior to changing the filter, there is no way to establish a baseline stating that it was clean. These things are often taken for granted...

How do you expect the filter to lose weight? If it is filtering the air (i.e. gathering dust), I would expect it to gain weight. I think trying to quantify lost oil in that way would be difficult at best. I still think the best way to account for the oil on the post filter is to carefully rinse the filter with a solvent, put the rinsate into a tared vial, evaporate the solvent, then reweigh the vial. Of course care needs to be taken so that no "dust" is lost in the rinsing process. A buchner funnel and a side-arm flask would make that much easier to assure. Those should be pretty easy to attain, I would think. Heck, if you want, I could certainly help you with that part of the process. Just have to send me the filter papers.
Habanero, The filter would gain weight if it accumulates dirt, but shed some weight at the same time if it sheds oil.
I think using a solvent and weighing the evaporated product would work, but introduces another variable. The mfg's say that they don't shed oil to the clean side, but most agree they do to some extent. Diesel Techs idea of pre-flushing the UNI with air is a good idea to initially blow out the filter of excess oil.
Another idea I had was to take a small piece of each post filter, say a square centimeter or square inch. Put this small piece of post filter in a test tube with a small amt. of pre-measured water or water/solvent mix, rinse the test paper thoroughly inside the test tube, and drip the filter sludge between 2 glass microscope slides. Then you could visualize and even count the particles getting past the filter. This is getting way ahead of myself, especially since I need an airbox and scale first.........Anyone have a spare airbox for our trucks?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif Or, is our airbox and filters apply to another vehicle? I could go to the local junk yard.
In a stroke of luck I called my furnace guy today. I asked if he could find me a fan/motor assembly. 5 MINUTES LATER he called me and said for a 12 pack of cola it was mine!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif The electrical will be a challenge for me, I am AC/DC challenged. I don't know the exact cfm either. I will do more asking for that, but it will be ATLEAST adequate if not overkill. Probably rated for over 1000 cfm., maybe I can install a variable current dial.

I think using a solvent and weighing the evaporated product would work, but introduces another variable.

Don't worry about that adding another variable, I do it several times a day with no significant addition of error. I am a research specialist in an oilseeds research laboratory, so calculating oil yields is old-hat. I am also serious about the offer of help in doing it. Throw the papers in clean zip-lock baggies and toss them in the mail. I would extract the papers as well as rinsing the baggie, throw the vials on the evaporator, and a few minutes later we know exactly how much oil is coming out of the filter. Take that weight away from the initial/final weight difference and you know for sure how much dirt you have.Edited by: habanero

Don't worry about that adding another variable, I do it several times a day with no significant addition of error. I am a research specialist in an oilseeds research laboratory, so calculating oil yields is old-hat. I am also serious about the offer of help in doing it.

Habanero, I guess I can't refuse an offer like that! But, still a lot needs to be done first. I must say, my luck has NEVER been so good so far. I got a blower unit practically for free and I just got back from an electric motor shop that wired me up with a variable speed dial. The power plant is ready to go and it took less than half a day to do it!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

I will still need a lot of help. I can't afford this on my own. Still needed:
(1)Air box, new, old, doesn't matter as long as it is in good shape. Even a swiss cheesed box would work.
(2)electric or tripple beam balance scale accurate to 1/100th of a gram.
(3)A few cheap replacement air filters for our truck. Must be paper, any brand. Will be used as the raw material for the post filters.
(4) Test filters....Initially an OE paper and a UNI. Must be new and in the original packaging.

I will build the test stand. Here is my basic plan. The fan/motor assembly is a standard direct drive furnace fan/motor assembly. I must shroud it in a box. Was thinking sheet metal, but a well made, well sealed box made of plywood would work just as well and is more my speed.(I can do that!!!) I would like to mount it all on a cart for easy movement.
Any suggestions or donations of needed materials welcome. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif
Another thought just crossed my mind. The new UMP filter will be available soon, if not already. This unit could be directly attached and tested. My guess is this unit will be very effective, but my primary goal is to remain objective and scientific in my approach (within the limits at hand). This will not be a perfect system as the filters cannot be tested side by side unless I build 2 test stands. However a series of tests will produce a trend or pattern of performance and this is statistically significant, but not quantifiably significant. SPICEREdited by: SPICER

I have a 2001 filter box that I can send you as long as I get it back after you are done with it. It still has the snorkel on it, but I can cut it off if you need me to. I have been planning on desnorkeling(is that a word?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif) and swiss cheesing it anyway. I also have an '04 filter box, but I am going to go ahead and swiss cheese it and put it in. Depending on your timeline for this, I may be able to send you the stock box out of my truck after I install the punched out box. I hope to get to do that this weekend. I'll pay to ship to you as long as you can ship back to me when you are done. Pm or email me. My email address is in my sig.

I have a 2001 filter box that I can send you as long as I get it back after you are done with it.* It still has the snorkel on it, but I can cut it off if you need me to.* I have been planning on desnorkeling(is that a word?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif) and swiss cheesing it anyway.* I also have an '04 filter box, but I am going to go ahead and swiss cheese it and put it in.* Depending on your timeline for this, I may be able to send you the stock box out of my truck after I install the punched out box.* I hope to get to do that this weekend.* I'll pay to ship to you as long as you can ship*back to me when you are done.* Pm or email me. My email address is in my sig.
This sounds like what I need. Actually I should have mentioned that ALL needed equipment is NOT A DONATION. At some point my curiosity will be satisfied and my wife will demand I dismantle the unit. SO, ALL equipment will be returned when we are done playing and learning.
The time line is not urgent, are you suggesting sending the 04 box and replacing it with the 01 cheesed? Whatever works for you.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif
I am sketching up the plans for the housing for the fan/motor. This will take ATLEAST a week or so to complete. THANK YOU for the offer, I will contact you. I will try the PM since it seems easy and I need to learn how to use it.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Stern Smile.gif Thanks Again. SPICER

I will still need a lot of help. I can't afford this on my own. Still needed:
(1)Air box, new, old, doesn't matter as long as it is in good shape. Even a swiss cheesed box would work.
(2)electric or tripple beam balance scale accurate to 1/100th of a gram.
(3)A few cheap replacement air filters for our truck. Must be paper, any brand. Will be used as the raw material for the post filters.
(4) Test filters....Initially an OE paper and a UNI. Must be new and in the original packaging.
SPICER

All is going according to plan. The plans are drawn and the materials for the fan/power unit are purchased. Assembly will commence this week. I have an air box on its way as a loaner. Any other of the above items will still be needed. Again, I am not looking for donations of these items, just loaners. Thanks Again for those helping so far!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif SPICER

What kind of capacity do you anticipate needing for the balance? I know of one that may work, but I think the capacity is pretty low. I think on the order of 100 grams or so.

What kind of capacity do you anticipate needing for the balance? I know of one that may work, but I think the capacity is pretty low. I think on the order of 100 grams or so.
Habanero, I believe the filters weigh way over 100 grams. The post filters, however, would be under 100 grams and a scale like this would work fine.
Keep me posted on the availability of this scale. It would be useful if I cannot find one bigger. An ounce is 28 grams, so a pound is 452 grams. I don't think our filters weigh over that, so a 500 gram scale would be fine.
I want to weigh the filter and post filter before and after. 1/100th of a gram would give the most detailed measurements. 1/10th of a gram may not be accurate enough to give us useful data. Thanks for the diligence!!!! SPICER

I deal in tenths of milligrams (1/10000 of a gram), so that should be detailed enough! I would think even something like a kitchen digital scale (usually 1/10 gram resolution) would be good enough for the actual air filter, but the post filter needs to be weighed more accurately. If I get a chance tomorrow morning, I will check the capacity of the balance I am looking at. Do you have any check weights to make sure the balance calibration is still good after shipping?

Spicer,


I will gladly send you my used K&N filter that fits in the stock air box. It has been cleaned twice at and has 3k on it since last cleaning. The good news is you do not even have to send it back to me.


Please explain to me your testing procedure? I have read the past post and am still not sure as to where and how you will be measuring actual filter performance. I understand your test rig is a blower with a variable voltage input and a stock air box. I am just not sure how you are going to measure dirt stopping capabillaty? I am also not sure how you are going to compare the filters?


I will also purchace an AFE progaurd7 for you to test. If it comes out on top, I will need you to send it back to me. If you need my filters or some coin for electricity, just send me a PM with your adress.

What I would I like to know is where dirt is gonna come from and how the dirt is gonna get into the filters equaly.


Geno

Habanero, I do not have any check weights but that is a good idea, I may have a science surplus store I can check. 100 grams is plenty for post filter weighing. I would like to measure the test filter accurately also for this reason. Dirt will collect on the filter AND on the post filter. With accurate measurements of both, we can determine exactly how much dirt was filtered by the main filter and how much got past.

Bronco, here is the testing theory: First I will say that my setup will NOT give you exact percentages of filtering efficiency. Without a lab and absolutely perfectly controlled variables, this is impossible. This study will resemble an air filter experiment that is recorded for all to view on bobistheoilguy.com. Log on and click on the "AIR FILTER TEST" prompt on the left. The difference is that I will use an engine SIMULATOR to pull the air through the filters instead of my truck. Each filter will be put in a standard filter box and attached to the vacuum/blower. On the clean side of the filter will be a sheet of un-folded filter paper taken from another new filter. This sheet will be layed flat on top of the main filter and covered with a mesh screen(taken from a new, disassembled filter). I have plans on how to assure it stays in place, etc...but too much to type. The blower will run for 24 hours, which will simulate 24 hours of driving at about 2500 rpm.(this can be varied with the adjustable speed fan.) In the aforementioned study, this person ran each filter for 500 miles on open roads and saw a significant difference in filtering efficiency between different brands. So, 24 hours is actually closer to 750-1000 miles depending on the speed and gear you're in. ANYWAY, each filter will be run in an identical manner. Obviously they will not be run on the same day, so in order to eliminate the variables including weather and air quality, MULTIPLE tests will be run. The outcome of the study will be a COMPARISON of tested filters and their efficiencies based on the WEIGHT of the dirt they let through, averaged over MANY days of sampling. Only 2 filters will be tested initially, an OE and a UNI. Once a clear trend is indicated, others may be tested. In order to be completely fair, however, I may need to test these same 2 filters again using additional OE and UNI's in order to eliminate the possibility of a flawed filter. Hopefully quality control is good and we won't have to worry too much about that. So far as dirt goes, the dirt captured will be atmospheric dust, the same stuff our trucks breath every day. Believe it or not, our air is dirty, and at 350-500 cubic feet per minute, that is a lot of dirt.
I am unfamiliar with the AFE product. I want to test the UMP, however if I do I will have to modify the test stand. Since it does not use our airbox, a different system will need to be used for the placement of the post filter, and that same system would have to be used on the filters it is TESTED WITH/COMPARED TO in order to keep all variables the same.
So far as coin goes, what I really need are some test filters and material for post filters. I looked at the FRAM filters today, but I don't think they would make good media for a post filter. I will look at something else soon. Maybe Baldwin or napa or something. I want white paper and a rubber seal that I can rip apart without damaging the paper. I also need an OE or 2 new, and atleast one new UNI. I have a UNI coming that has "pin holes" and is slightly used, and it will get tested, but I still need a new one in order to be "scientific". Thanks for the offer to help, and I will let you know how. Now that you see the plan, any ideas or suggestions are most helpfulhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif SPICER

This morning I removed my stock airbox & filter and replaced with the swiss cheesed box & UNI. It is very cloudy today so I couldn't check the UNI for holes with the sun, but I did use a couple of 1000 watt HPS lights at work to check it and I could see no holes, so I didn't take any pictures of it. However, my intake tube was dirty. I don't know how it got dirty, but I suspect the loose seal between the air box and the tube. It is sealed up now. I wiped the tube and MAF with a Chemtronics ChemPad. I took some pictures but my computer is not cooperating with the camera right now. I will attempt it again later.

Spicer,


What can I do to convince you to test all of the big players?? Putting UNI head to head with a paper only tells us who is better PAPER OR UNI? Those 2 options still might be at the bottom of the totem pole? I would like to see UNI/AMSOIL/K&N/AFE/AFE PROGAURD/ACDELCO PAPER/????


King of the hill!!


Regardless of what you decide, I do have a spare K&N stock air box upper lip seal. #09986 33-2129 1/8" Poron. It sticks to the top of your airbox and overcomes any filter sealing surface irregularities. Maybe you could use RTV or grease around all of the other potential leak areas. Don't want any cotreversy in regards to leaks.


Have you considered using a different media for the white final filter portion? Household furnace filter? Resperator mask prefilter? Something all together different. Maybe habenero has a specific media he can easily clean and test??Edited by: Bronco

Spicer,


What can I do to convince you to test all of the big players?? Putting UNI head to head with a paper only tells us who is better PAPER OR UNI? Those 2 options still might be at the bottom of the totem pole? I would like to see UNI/AMSOIL/K&N/AFE/AFE PROGAURD/ACDELCO PAPER/????


King of the hill!!


Regardless of what you decide, I do have a spare K&N stock air box upper lip seal. #09986 33-2129 1/8" Poron.*It sticks to the top of your airbox and overcomes any filter sealing surface irregularities. Maybe you could use RTV or grease around all of the other potential leak areas. Don't want any cotreversy in regards to leaks.


Have you considered using a different media for the white final filter portion? Household furnace filter?*Resperator mask prefilter? Something all together different. Maybe habenero has a specific media he can easily clean and test??
Bronco, Actually I do want to test multiple filters. However, I just don't want to get ahead of myself. Because this test method is a COMPARISON test, and the samples will not be run simultaneously, and each filter will be tested multiple times for 24 hours, we are talking a lot of time and work to compare the first 2 samples. And that is assuming that I don't discover any problems with my test stand AND that I don't have to make any changes to the duration of the tests and/or the power of the blower unit. There will undoubtedly be some trial and error until I get the system dialed in. Once there is some data and we see a pettern of performance, then we can look at other filters. However, a test run on a K&N in July should not be compared to a test run on a UNI in March. Weather, temperature, and most of all atmospheric pollution(pollin, dust, molds) are too variable. So, a benchmark filter must be used and run for each new filter tested. For instance, If a K&N is tested, it will be tested lets say 3-4 times,(24 hours each) and the benchmark filter will be run 3-4 times on the alternate days...SO....to test a K&N would take 6-8 days and at the end we would see how it compared to the benchmark filter(probably will use the OE as the benchmark). The benchmark filter IS NOT necessarily the BEST filter, it is just used as a frame of reference.
Initially I want 2 OE's and 2 UNI's, both new. I want to run the OE's and UNI's on alternate days for atleast eight days(4 each). I want to use 2 of each filter. This way each of the 4 filters will be tested twice. This is to avoid any potential false readings from a poor filter. (I don't want to come out reporting poor performance of a filter, later to find out it had a torn seal). It is just a way to keep a good, fair representation of how a particular brand of filter performs.
I will pay close attention to the seals, and the K&N seal sounds like it could be useful. Sealing all other potential leak sources is definitely something I will look closely at also.
As far as the post-filter media goes, I am open to suggestions. However, the media MUST allow air through and MUST collect dirt, especially the very FINE dirt that can pass through a filter. Air filter paper meets these criteria. Filter paper is basically a screen door, with a pattern of weave that simply won't allow particles over a certain size through. It is engineered for this purpose and therefore fits the ticket. It has also been used before in similar studies and proved very effective. A single napa or OE filter will provide multiple post filters.
As an update, the power unit is clean as a whistle. I tore it down today, cleaned it thoroughly and it is reassembled. Looks like brand new! The housing for the power unit will begin assembly on Saturday. That will be done by no later than Wednesday. Then once I get the filter box and a few other materials and equipment, the trial runs will begin to test the equipment. Thanks for the help and interest!!!! Still a few things needed,
New OE filters(atleast 4)
New UNI filters(2)
Scale(one may be in the

So my take on this is UNI-Filters is one of probably a handful of companies in the world that has made a 100% flawless product since day one of production.

Is there a Nobel Prize Awarded for this?
If not, I guess JD POWERS might be giving them a call?

Dirtyoldman.
In another thread You buck the sarcasm but yet you ask if PC fudged up?

Heck! a monkey could install one of these!

PC stated without a shred of doubt in his mind that he installed it correctly. Let's leave it at that.

Would you want to be questioned like this and be accused of lying or being mechanically ignorant!

I bet you wouldn't stand for it!!

Let UNI do the right thing and give him whatever it is that he wants from them (apology, replacement etc...) or face the music with bad publicity.

I was contemplating buying one, still am, if UNI can fix the problem/narrow it down to a bad batch or whatever.

If I sold these, I would stop doing so until they resolved the issue, not bash/blame it on the consumer (as at least one dealer of the UNI filter has). It's bad for business on UNI's end and the Dealers end. Maybe that dealer should go to bat for PC even if
he didn't sell it to him. Now that would be going beyond the call of service.


JMHO

Pepperidge

p.s. 100% useless garbage is what "his" filter was Edited by: pepperidge

Hey Spicer, I checked out that balance, but it did not power up for some reason. It has a battery and an ac adapter and I think the battery is dead. The adapter did not power it up either, I will get a new battery over the weekend to see if that makes it power up. I was wrong about the capacity, too. It goes up to 600 grams, but only in .02 gram increments. Not very good resolution, but better than nothing.

I was curious as to what you are using for your secondary filter as well. I am not sure about using an automotive paper filter as your secondary filter (...a single Napa or OE filter will provide multiple post filters...). Since that is technically one of the "test" filters, I don't think that would be a real good choice as a secondary filter. This is a real tough thing to decide on, since the criteria it needs to meet are pretty demanding. I will think about it over the weekend and see if I can come up with anything. I know there are probably commercially-available options, but the VWR and Fisher catalogs are across the lab and I am too lazy at this point to go look at them. I will let you know about that balance on Monday.

Any chance you could create the new bagless type vacum claeners? It basically just gives the dirt a place to slow down and settle. No filter needed. You could easily weigh the dirt.


The thing I like about test dirt is because this speeds the entire process. I know many say this is not real or fair. Come to Colorado and drive down the highway when the wind is blowing. Talk to me about not fair or real when you have to slow down because you can not even see the road. Go to the sand dunes or on a dirt road and talk to me about test dirt. It takes about 5 minutes to figure out if your filter is stopping or passing.

Hey Spicer, I checked out that balance, but it did not power up for some reason. It has a battery and an ac adapter and I think the battery is dead. The adapter did not power it up either, I will get a new battery over the weekend to see if that makes it power up. I was wrong about the capacity, too. It goes up to 600 grams, but only in .02 gram increments. Not very good resolution, but better than nothing.

I was curious as to what you are using for your secondary filter as well. I am not sure about using an automotive paper filter as your secondary filter (...a single Napa or OE filter will provide multiple post filters...). Since that is technically one of the "test" filters, I don't think that would be a real good choice as a secondary filter. This is a real tough thing to decide on, since the criteria it needs to meet are pretty demanding. I will think about it over the weekend and see if I can come up with anything. I know there are probably commercially-available options, but the VWR and Fisher catalogs are across the lab and I am too lazy at this point to go look at them. I will let you know about that balance on Monday.
RE: the scale, .02 gram increments, as in 2 one-hundredths of a gram? Sure beats 1/10th of a gram!!! If you can get it to light up I think it would work fine, or atleast be a start before a better choice comes along.

RE: using automotive paper as a test filter. If you can come up with a material that is suitable and "neutral" I am open to ideas. Automotive filter paper has worked in the past. One issue is that auto filter paper is very restrictive. It has to be in order to filter out the small stuff. That is why so MUCH paper has to be folded like an accordian in order to keep the air flow reasonable. A single flat sheet of filter paper is VERY restrictive, but it works. The tester on bobistheoilguy.com used his own vehicle instead of a test stand. He did this very thing, placed a sheet of auto filter paper behind the primary filter in order to capture the dirt getting past the primary. It did a very effective job of capturing dirt, and his comparisons of filter efficiency was based soley on how much dirt APPEARED to collect on the post filter. The pictures tell a lot, but in his follow-up report he states that next time he will weigh the filters before and after to give more merit to the results. He also stated that the performance of his vehicle with all of the air restriction was VERY POOR. All the more reason to not use our trucks as a test stand!

Bronco, test dirt is tricky. You must know the exact size range of the dirt, etc......And it is not real world. It certainly would be interesting to try throwing wads of fine dust at it and see what happens, but I think it would be hard to prove anything. SAE J726 I think is the SAE standard for air filters. They do just this, use test dirt, and they are a rich lab. But, their tests have always been criticized as not real world.....

I was thinking today, George Morrison told me once that different dirt across the country seems to filter differently in different filters. It would be interesting to send this test stand to various places to see if the results are the same....Just thinkinghttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif SPICER Edited by: SPICER

When are you people going to understand there is nothing wrong with these filters. How is your test going to get dirt into the filter?. all you are going to prove is (maybe) whitch is the best in flow, this is not what the question is, IT'S DIRT. Duuuuuuuuuuuuuh


GenoEdited by: geno

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuh


Geno

GENO, your like that guy who walks in the middle of a conversation and asks for a totally irrelevant detail. I'm tired and don't feel like repeating myself, but thanks for the input.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif SPICER

Your welcomehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif Go to bed.


GenoEdited by: geno

If you guys need a shovel full of dirt or two I have plenty out on the curb on the street I could offer up for test material ....


You know what they say Geno ~"When the SAND hits the FAN all hell is gonna break lose"


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Spicer,


Test dirt is tricky indeed. If you go that route it would be easier to send you a baggie full of dirt rather than send the machine around.


Have you given any thought to the settling method? Just let the air slow down and the dirt fall out?


Finally, I could tell you my personal experiences but no one will believe me. For example with my K&N I never could get a real good dirt build up. But after running my paper for only 1500 miles the difference is amazing. Just pull the ACDELCO out of the air box and the fine dust starts to fall. Give it a very light tap and watch the dust fall.Where was all the K&N dirt? Stuck the oil?


My point is, there are always going to be naysayers and objections, always! I feel it is better to do a less than real test rather than no test at all. If your local dirt is getting through a filter than I am sure my local dirt will get through as well. If dirt is getting through at 42 MPH and 250CFM then I am sure it will get through at 100MPH and 800CFM! Lets not over think this. Lets just test for big pinholes. that is what got this started. What are the naysayers afraid of? If there filter is as good as claimed then you will not find any kind of dirt passing under any situation!

I say oil up the front of the filter good ,dip it in sand like breading fried shicken and bungie cord it to the grill off a Juiced truck and go for a LONG ride ....


Stop ,Wipe the clean side ,call it a day !!!!








Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

Laughing out loud!

OUCH...My head hurts now....


I should have known better than to read all of that. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif





Mike

OUCH...My head hurts now....


I should have known better than to read all of that. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif





Mike





Good there will be a test .....





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

All I can say is good luckhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Geno

All I can say is good luckhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Geno








Thanks Geno.


Right now I am better than half way done building the housing for the blower, and aside from acquiring the rest of the needed materials, this is the toughest/most time consuming part of the preparation. I was up until midnight cutting out the pieces and have spent the better part of the day today building. So far all is coming together very well.


I was thinking last night about seasonal variations and airborne dirt and realized that it is winter and we have a foot of snow on the ground. It would seem that this would make the air relatively clean as compared to the summer. I will ask a meteorologist friend of mine...


Anyway, back to the work bench!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif SPICER

Spicer,


I'd just like to say thanks. Your time, your money, but we will all benefit from this. You da man!!

Old Man


Thanks for setting the story streight on the Bear


Geno

Spicer


We got plenty of dust down here and it is red, Hey you know where Capitol Drive And Titonia is. Lived close to there back in 60's before going into service.


Geno

Spicer


We got plenty of dust down here and it is red, Hey you know where Capitol Drive And Titonia is. Lived close to there back in 60's before going into service.


Geno





Geno, I am less than 2 miles from there as we speak. I am out the firehouse now in Shorewood (directly east of Teutonia on Capitol drive.) That neighborhood may have been nice in the 60's, in fact I'm sure it was. A little shady now!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Stern Smile.gif


Oldman, thanks for the moral support....Got any filters?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


Well, my finger are covered in liquid nails and sticking to the keys, but I am happy to say that 10 hours today and 3 last night, the power unit is 95% complete. A little touch-up here and there and I will be ready to install the airbox and start preparing the test filters. Luckily I am a firefighter and Saturdays are down days. My wife would KILL ME http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif if I spent this much time at home to make a box to test air filters!!! Now that I write it down, it does sound ridiculous.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif But it is a noble cause, to rid ourselves of the misleading, irresponsible claims of after market companies and to prove once and for all that I have way too much time on my hands!!! Whew, my head is spinning. Gotta go and clean up the mess downstairs before I crash and burn. SPICER

Kennedy and the UNI prez are wrong.

Here are the facts........

Removed fairly new and very clean paper oem from box.
Inspected tube and and upper lid for dirt contamination, found none.

Compared UNI filter to old paper for size and fit.

Held UNI up to the sun, saw hundreds of tiny light holes.

Wondered if it would work ok

Installed it because everyone here said they were so great.

Made sure it had a wet bead of oil around the rubber.

Fit lid down and tightened bolts a little at a time until snug/tight.

Drove truck 7k miles.

During oil change removed filter lid to check filter tube (worried about all the holes in filter).

Found HEAVY dust and sand contamination.

Inspected wet seal around rubber for channeling dirt and/or leaking dirt around the filter, saw none. It was perfectly clean around the wet bead/seal.

Concluded contamination went THROUGH THE FILTER!

Cleaned tube and lid.

Bought new Napa oem paper and installed.

Drover 2k in dusty desert dirt road conditions.

Drove down to UNI to return filter and talk the them.

Walked out to truck and asked them to look at my tube after runnning the paper filter 2k in high dirt conditions.

Tube and lid were Completely free of dirt.



So you tell me. How did the dirt get there? Logic says it went trhough the filter. No dirt before uni and no dirt after would have you conclude the air ducting system is not leaking at the filter minder or etc...




It had to go through the filter. Others have said they had dirt as well. I am not the only one. Kennedy and UNi presidents test is flawed. I cant explain it.

You can still take my BUY MY TRUCK FROM ME CHALLANGE if your so sure your right.

If you are 100% sure your right what do you have to lose?
Edited by: problemchild

Sounds like I have herd this BS before somewhere huuuum wonder where


Geno

Geno

1 word.


PROZAC

One question I have is what is wrong with the stock filter? Is it that it doesn't flow enough or it doesn't filter enough? Just curious.

Im not the boss, Im not Tony Soprano, This is The Diesel Place, I don't start phoney threads so why should I need Prozac. look in the mirror and say why did I do this. Personaly I think you should apoligize to UNI


Geno

Im not the boss, Im not Tony Soprano, This is The Diesel Place, I don't start phoney threads so why should I need Prozac. look in the mirror and say why did I do this. Personaly I think you should apoligize to UNI


Geno





Relax, calm down, deep breathing, you don't want to get your blood pressure up there.

Geno

Man you are one lost soul.

"Phoney threads"

HUH?

Thats my story an im stickin to it


why you avoiding the oil


UNI USER

I'm on vacation for a week and am unsubscribing to the Uni threads, so as not to ahve 1000 messages in my inbox when I get home. I'll pick up where we left off next Mon.3/01/04

PepperidgeEdited by: pepperidge

PC,

Whats the latest?

Pepperidge

Sent the PUNI to Spicer. Happy to be running Paper again!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

<--- Butting in where I don't belong...


Concerning CAI's and filters. GM has picked most the "low hanging fruit" in the performance aspect of most their newer engines. A K&N or UNI or Brand X filter is not normally going to make the "25HP GAIN!!!" that you read about in advertising material. Most all the GM air induction systems are well thought out designs that reduce noise, filter well, and provide more airflow than the engine requires.


This is not to say that there are not small gains available, but usually there is a price to pay.


I'm going to experiment with induction on my truck once I finish baseline testing, but I'm not going to expect alot, and I'll be surprised if significant gains can be made.


My .02c's.

<--- Butting in where I don't belong...


Concerning CAI's and filters. GM has picked most the "low hanging fruit" in the performance aspect of most their newer engines. A K&N or UNI or Brand X filter is not normally going to make the "25HP GAIN!!!" that you read about in advertising material. Most all the GM air induction systems are well thought out designs that reduce noise, filter well, and provide more airflow than the engine requires.


This is not to say that there are not small gains available, but usually there is a price to pay.


I'm going to experiment with induction on my truck once I finish baseline testing, but I'm not going to expect alot, and I'll be surprised if significant gains can be made.


My .02c's.





McRat, My sentiments exactly. A stock truck won't see any difference except potentially dirtier intake tube and a modified one will see little advantage. It is a common thing to hear some mention running dyno tests with the filter removed and see no performance enhancement.


Aftermarket air filters seem to appeal to those who like to play and modify, and since not a SINGLE ONE has come foreward with verifiable, independent data directly comparing their filtering efficiency with the OE, I tend to believe that they are inferior. The ONLY data I have seen is on the Baldwin website where they even ADMIT that the OE is slightly better at filtering dirt.


There is a place for re-usable, non-paper filters. Mud and water sports(offroad) come to mind. But the potential risks outweigh any benefits on our trucks, in my opinion. Hopefully we will produce some data to help us make up our minds. SPICEREdited by: SPICER

Uni refuses to call me or work the problem out. I guess the President of UNI is "still thinking about it"!

I am out the filter and the money.

PC did you hear from UNI yet?

I suspect you won't as if the same thinking as the vendor in Wisconsin http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif, they will never admit the problem nor do anything to make good on it. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif

Just checked my UNI filter after 2600 miles... Held it up to the sun and could see three or four tiny pinholes if held at certain angles, but intake was spotless.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Question.gif