Man, I had not been by the page in quite sometime and decided to drop in. HOLY COW http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif...Must be 6-8 polls about injectors, fuel filters and such...Is this still such a huge issue or do the majority like to debate this issue? I find the threads most interesting. I have a very early '01 and as some of you know I use my truck very hard in a variety of conditions and applications.


I purchased the secondary fuel filtration set up about 2 months ago and have had no time to install it. Soon I hope. I think to some degree, this boils down to a rigid PM process. I change all my filters every 7k miles regardless(Oil usually happens every 3-4K but have let it go 7K) It is cheap insurance and take 15 minutes to change Oil, Fuel and Allison filters. Unfortunately for the daily driver that is not mechanically inclined this would be an excessive cost to have a dealer do this plus the inconvenience. Now I am not saying my method is the best but it appears to be working and really it should. I have cut quite a few fuel filters, as well as oil, and they are clean. I have yet to have moisture build up in my fuel filter. I have not analyzed any oil samples as I think that is excessive for what a "User" needs to do or in most cases know.


So what is the plan with all the data that is being gathered? Here are some questions to think about


Is this to be compared with the volume of people that know about this page?


Is this poll going to be calculated and numbers extrapolated outward based on the numbers across the entire market of DMax trucks sold?


Is someone calculating the statistics of injector failures Vs people that have added power modules or propane?


Is proper maintenance part of the statistics? lousy maintenance practice could be the # 1 failure...


See where I am going with this. The sample size and the audience viewing is tainted and EXTREMELY SMALL. There are a tremendous amount of variables that will not allow anyone to pin down the failure mechanism or that it will happen on a certain year by a certain amount of miles. I have to believe this is why GM is not addressing the problems if they even exist based on what GM stated the truck would do.


Anyway, please carry on. I like reading peoples input. This is very good readingEdited by: Duramax Dually

You're correct, the polls here are not doing us much good. If anything they'll scare people off unneccessarily.

How so? Some of the polls have shown a relatively low failure rate given the fact that many who have failures are drawn to forums like this. So, I feel like a few percent failure rate from people on this board probably translates into an even lower failure rate in terms of the general public. At least that's my thinking - right or wrong.

While these polls are not very Scientific, they do show some sort of a trend, the more miles the more of a chance of Injector issues. This didn't come out of the blue, some D/A pioneer owners have posted their own experiences, Captainmal comes to mind, sure if you use your truck to tow commercially or tow a 5th wheel most of the time, it puts alot more wear and tear, but that's what these trucks are made for.


I think these trucks are awesome, http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif2nd one for me, but if the injectors life span is between 100,000--200,000 miles thats not acceptable, I bought a Diesel for Longevity among other reasons, and Gassers can go that easy. Not to say, this is the case, we don't know yet, but as more trucks get up to these kind of miles, we can only wait and watch, and for some take extra precautions(secondary filtering).


Soon enough there will be more clarity on the Injector issue or Non issue and more then likely it will be based on Info compiled by members on this Forum. I am sure both Bosch and GM and even Dodge are watching how these High Pressure Fuel Systems perform long term. In the meantime I keep my fingers crossed and my filters clean.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Tundracamper,


Hopefully my post was not viewed as adversarial. However I am a engineer that deal with statistics all the time. I know that statistics do not lie, however the data has to be accurate to acheive the best results and the sample size has to be correct. Here would be a question for you. "So if you think the numbers posted here could show us that actually a lower number of failures exist in the general public how can you make that assessment? There could 150,000 failures out there you are unaware of. Maybe the failure rate is higher with the general public than what has been posted on the site. Maybe the polling community on this site are very high PM type people(Which is probably the case). These are all assumptions but to many variables exist to make a claim. Here is another very important specific, Are their geographic concerns? Some areas are noted for having extremely dirty fuel at their service stations. Maybe people in NY have a higher failure rate than California. I mean we could on and on but my post was more inline with Hoot's response. If you come on this or any site and see a poll that shows "X" % of injector failures we might be falsley misleading that population of people. Strangely this type of posting also allows enterprises to come on with their "You need secondary filtration capability and I have designed just the very thing" saga. So people fear the worst and looking at the poll results feel they could be that "percentage" that might fail and out of fear buy something they may not really need. Do not get me wrong I believe extra filtration of any liquid product is always a good thing but is it really required?


Best Regards

I know these polls are not scientific.They just prove that there is alot less wrong with the Duramax than what most owners think.I figured that most people flock to these type of forums to see if anyone else is experiencing the same problem. More than 250,000 Duramaxes are on the road and all we can come up with is less than 100 trucks with failures.In the big picture that is absolutely nothing.


For example,Dodge has more tranny failures under warranty than Gm has injector failures.

I have an 01 model and only have 21,000 miles on it and it is almost 2 years old. I use it primarily to tow a 31' travel trailer. The injector issue does concern me since they are so expensive to replace. I try to use clean fuel and replace the filter about every 10K but who really knows if that is the main cause of failures anyway. It's an awesome truck but sometimes I think I might have been better off with the 8.1

Holy Molly! I think you completely misunderstood my post. I too am an engineer. I do not claim that any type of "model" can be generated from this data. HOWEVER, from reading the numerous posts on injector failures, one might be lead to believe that this is a very widespread problem. These polls, though, show otherwise. I'm not stating that there are no injector issues. However, I don't think that the failure rate is "high" (e.g. 50%+) as one MIGHT be drawn to conclude from the number of posts on this topic. Its just a topic that gets people hyped up and it gets lots of attention. So, it's easy to think that most injectors are subject to fail when in fact the numbers here show that is not "necessarily" the case. I really can't be any more vague than that!Edited by: tundracamper

Of course these are not scientific polls so strong conclusions can't be drawn from them. Aside from all the truck/driver variables, voters aren't randomly selected. Mean spirited folks (trolls) could vote and it may even be possible to vote multiple times from multiple log on aliases.

Broker,


You are right. I was only trying to point out how this type of forum can be dangerous to the general public. Most people do not look into the data and the results and how the data was gathered. They see a number and react. I am just finding it funny that from the data people are making assessments that a certain year with a certain amount of miles will have failures or are more likely too. Well I would suspect that a 01 would have a higher number than a 04...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif Well there is no rocket science here but folks as the truck ages things will break..If you thought by purchasing a DMAX truck and that they would last forever than someone seriously mislead you. I think if you can go 100K+miles and you have a injector failure, or a rearend starts to go away or you develop a leak, etc, then I think you have done pretty well inspite of GM's claim that they should last 200K. Remember trucks in Labs do not see what a day to day truck sees. Their tests are very controlled and I suspect as any of the Big 3 do..They embellish them to some degree.


I say enjoy your truck, do the regular service intervals. Keep the truck in working order and you will most likely acquire the results you expected. If for some reason it breaks, get it fixed and carry on.

Of course these are not scientific polls so strong conclusions can't be drawn from them. Aside from all the truck/driver variables, voters aren't randomly selected. Mean spirited folks (trolls) could vote and it may even be possible to vote multiple times from multiple log on aliases.

That's a real concern. There is no way to confirm the votes are authentic.

With so few samples it wouldn't take many votes from the dark sides to skew things excessively.

Only GM really knows and they ain't tellin. We also tend to hope for the poll to go our way and when they do or don't we try and come up with reasons why.... kinda like I'm doing now.

Yes it might show some trend but the fact that there are so many owners that do not register, browse or care about this site and the fact that the ones that search have a higher probability of having issues. People with no issues that do lurk may never join. People with issues have reason.

Notice Ford 6.0 PSD made the media with it's issues? I have yet to read anything in the media or in technical publications about Dmax issues and it's been out far longer.

Notice Ford 6.0 PSD made the media with it's issues? I have yet to read anything in the media or in technical publications about Dmax issues and it's been out far longer.


Good Point, Hoot http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

"Notice Ford 6.0 PSD made the media with it's issues? I have yet to read anything in the media or in technical publications about Dmax issues and it's been out far longer.

"





That is a excellant point Hoot ....


Mac

Mac,
Signature changed again, Are you back to chevy again, or still thinking about cummins?

By the way, I second the vote that Hoot has a good point. Nice post to put everything in perspective.

Ditto what's been said about the polls, no need to rehash. I just want to point out something about forum members. In this thread, and several others, I have seen folks say we join because we want help with problems. That's not always the case. I tend to be one of the high PM types DMax Dually mentioned. I joined not because I was having problems, but because I wanted to avoid them. I think you'd find many are here for the same reason. I am on motorcycle and snowmachine forums for the same reason. I want to learn the ins and outs of the vehicle so I can keep it in good shape for years to come.

jc,


Another excellent point! I do the high pm too.

I've said it before, my truck is way, way over maintained LOL. Aside from the cost, I do enjoy saying that from time to time LOL

Of course these are not scientific polls so strong conclusions can't be drawn from them. Aside from all the truck/driver variables, voters aren't randomly selected. Mean spirited folks (trolls) could vote and it may even be possible to vote multiple times from multiple log on aliases.




That's a real concern. There is no way to confirm the votes are authentic.

With so few samples it wouldn't take many votes from the dark sides to skew things excessively.

Only GM really knows and they ain't tellin. We also tend to hope for the poll to go our way and when they do or don't we try and come up with reasons why.... kinda like I'm doing now.

Yes it might show some trend but the fact that there are so many owners that do not register, browse or care about this site and the fact that the ones that search have a higher probability of having issues. People with no issues that do lurk may never join. People with issues have reason.

Notice Ford 6.0 PSD made the media with it's issues? I have yet to read anything in the media or in technical publications about Dmax issues and it's been out far longer.


The dmax was mentioned in a wall street article that I saw about the ford 6.0 debacle -> they mentioned that gm is gaining in market share with duramax equiped trucks at an astounding pace as a result of customer issues with ford.


jeff

Ask Allitech how many trucks his dealer has sold vs how many have come back for injector problems. This should give us a more accurate failure rate.


Just my .02


Blakehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

Then again to muddy the waters..it works both ways..not everyone that has problems knows about this site. *shrugs* I have run into numerous people and told them about it, and have yet to see another pensacola person register.

Sorry to have started such a stir. But what you folks are posting is the reality of it all. There are trolls that could post, there are people that could vote multiple times, there are people unaware of the site, there are people that 'Juiced" the living daylights out of their deals and are now posting that they had or are having problems without be truthful. The list goes on. I merely posted this to be fair to the people that surf the site, never post and become 'nervous" about the product and react to what's reported. Just wanted everybody to keep this in perspective. I too came to this and the other site a long time ago as I was one of the first with a CC Dually and wanted to see what things(Good or Bad) people were doing or encountering. As an owner of the "1st Year Model" I wanted to be in the loop. I learned alot but I had to be very careful on how to filter the information. man had I bought the first "Juice Box" I would have been spinning my wheels sending it back and forth to Edge for updates....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif. I am glad now looking back I never did any of it. It runs very well in Stock form.


As it stands now if you fill out all your papers correctly you are the list for recalls if they should arise, and if you follow the site you can check the TSB's. But as some of us have learned just because you read about a TSB does not mean the dealer will honor it. You have to go through all the symptoms and that is painful.


I still stand that the DMAX truck is an awesome piece of engineering. I know sometime soon my truck will be dated and the latest greatest deal will be the thing to talk about. But I am going to drive the wheels off my truck. After test driving an '04 my friend just got the power and feel in the seat of the pants is not noticeable. A few ergonomic changes and some body changes. No need to sell your '01 for an '04 IMHO....

I want to learn the ins and outs of the vehicle so I can keep it in good shape for years to come.








Well said, I joined for the same reason.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

When I look at the polls the percentages seem suprising. The you realize that five % injector failure is two or three people. Seems like a really over blown worry wart sort of thing. I come here to learn more about pm. I also find it beneficial to see what problems others are having. If their was some one reliable near me installing the Nicktane set up I would have it done and not look back. I can not bring myself to justify the lift pump and wild systems that some here use and enjoy. I certainly can not get excited about installing a second Racor filter http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif I just like my truck in the OEM state and I am more concerned with longevity/fuel economy than squeezing out every ounce of HP. This is my second max and I enjoy it. Hopefully every one else likes their trucks as much as I do no matter which side of the fence you live on http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I think it might be a bigger deal when your warranty runs out in 5 years with about 75,000 miles and you have to fork over about 4 or 5 grand to get the truck fixed. I won't be a happy camper if that happens to me. I think a $40k truck should give better service than that. It's never as bad when it happens to someone else.


Anyone ever see the thread over at the camping forum that Mike G had a problem with the driveline coming loose and knocking a hole in the floor of his truck. Took him forever to get satisfaction from GM and he jumped through all kinds of hoops.

Have a friend that is parts manager at GM dealer. Not the biggest dealer in the world but they sell 4 to 7 Duramaxes monthly..... Not 1 injector problem yet! Just maintain and have fun.

I have a 2001 D/A.I became a member to learn as much as I can about these trucks.I do my own servicing.Read about how difficult it was to get the oil filter off. I had myself all hyped up for a tough job, surprise oil filter came off very easy. Next I rotated the tires again all hyped up to try to get the rims off the axles came loose fairly easy. Now I`m hearing all the problems with injectors. So far I have not had one problem yet.This does not mean I won`t have.But I do use an additive and have since the truck was new.I believe using the cleanest fuel you can and good servicing should something go wrong we have every right to go to GM and ask for some answers.I have owned three 6.5 TD the `95 did give injector pump problems GM fixed under warranty not aproblem. All trucks were stock no add ons.I do believe modifying these trucks for stock could be asking for trouble.


Harold

You guys are all being silly... the polls are a reflection of the people who visit this site.... nothing more...most of us are looking for answers to problems and some of us are looking for the secrete recipe. for me it was both. I had a problem with mine and searched the web. I will tell you I took the 90hp juice off, and took it to the dealer and could not wait to get it home too put it back on.


Tell me this?? if a dealer told you that you could buy a vehicle with 300hp+/-Blah,blah,blah ..........and that it is selling equal to its competitors (just let it go......) and that for $700 +/- you could choose the 400hp version ....... which would you choose? come on!! I love this truck!!! i love the juice!! try it you will like it.


what do i know?


keep it stock, I love passing.


Duramax Dually if your are an engineer. then you know that any problem is based on an assumption. I think maybe you are assuming a little to much to start with. list youre assumptions out @ the being of the exercise and follow with you answer.





http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif Tom











Tom


Edited by: Gray Gmax

Gray GMax,


I started on the other site when I first got my truck in early '01. I thought it would be fun to share experiences with others,learn of some cool ideas and share modifications concepts. I have been an active follower of that site and now this one. But over the past 3 years it appears that people get all hyped up about stuff and than beat the point to death. I am not saying disregard the comments, but in reality, you have to understand that we have been talking about Fuel filters, and Motor oil for far to long. Maybe it is how the sites have been set up. Maybe there should be a section for motor oil discussion and recommendations, fuel filters discussion so people who want to over analyze this can go in there. I really do not have any assumptions about any of this. Just an overview.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif I just know that you can let this stuff consume you. If you are looking for answers any of these sites can mislead, or is some cases, misrepresent the information. I just thought the polls posted had no positive value, they were tainted and not secure. People viewing have no way of knowing if the data is accurate. For some this may be a forum where they base decisions on the information posted and react accordingly.


Just my thoughts