Well, the results are in and it doesn't look good http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif Check out ... http://community.webshots.com/album/78464371PcGaFz ... These pictures are of two OEM filters that were purchased at the same time. The first 4 are of a never used filter that was still contained in unbroken shrink-wrap. The second series is of a companion filter after 12,000 miles. They were both sent to mdrag (Diesel Page moderator) to cut open. His comments can be found over on that site. To quote George Morrison's response to these pictures:


Thank you so much for those superb "cuts" (as always!) and photos.. This filter is totally uncacceptable for use in our engines. The sub-micronic abrasives that would be released with use would cause considerable damage to a fuel system. It looks like we should do some more "new" filter inspections as we know there are very few true manufacturers of our filters; we need to make sure they aren't all like this..


It is my understanding that all OEM fuel filters for our trucks are produced by the same manufacturer and then labeled for sale by various companies. If this is the case, we could clearly have a problem. One can't help but wonder if (as per George's comment above) this couldn't be a contributor to some reported injector problems. Results like this have confirmed (for me) the need for post OEM filtration .... Jim

I feel the same way. I don't trust that OEM one bit.

Not funny at all... I guess you really have to see it with your own eyes off your own truck to believe. When I cut my filter open last night, I was amazed at all the rust at the bottom and on the sides. I guess some of us are in denial....thinking there is nothing wrong with the stock setup. I tell you it made a believer of secondary filtration when I cut mine open.


Bob

Maybe the Racor add on isn't such a bad idea.

It is my understanding that Racor is the company that makes OEM filters for GM's D'maxes. It is clear that addition of a good aftermarket filter (meaning 2 micron capability) should be given strong consideration. Because it also clearly appears our OEM filters may add what have been termed "sub-micronic abrasives" to our fuel, it seems logical that, regardless of the addition of a pre-OEM filtration, 2-micron filtration should be strongly considered post OEM....JimEdited by: JEBar

I was going to go pre with a Racor setup I just picked up.After seeing this I may have to go post.Has anyone taken a new Racor aux filter apart to see if it has the same problems.My dad is sitting here & says to throw some Marvel Mystery Oil in it,that will cure anything.LOL....of course he drives an old Dodge CDT & doesn't know any better.....

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I beleive from some of the recent fuel analysis in the last few months, the Racor 660 frame mount (pre-OEM) posted one of the best, if not the best, results thus far? Edited by: tophog

The Cat Pre OEM has resulted in the best results so far ...





Mac

I wonder how many new filters look like that. Every one of my OEM filters have been cut open, and I have yet to see any rust inside. the only thing i've seen is a bit of that sludge in the bottom. since installing my cat filter i've only changed the OEM once and that one didn't have any sludge or rust in it. perhaps the new filters sat somewhere in a moist enviro. before making it to the customer? i believe i bought my case of them from DIS.


Nick

The Cat Pre OEM has resulted in the best results so far ...





Mac





There's a spreadsheet or something that contains all the results right? Anyone know the URL?

Try one of these:


For a PDF version:


http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO/OC_Dmax.pdf





For the Excel version:


http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO/OC_Dmax.xls





The spreadsheet contains data from Fuel Analysis Reports performed by AVLUBE for various people who posted their results on the Diesel Page.

Try one of these:


For a PDF version:


http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO/OC_Dmax.pdf





For the Excel version:


http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO/OC_Dmax.xls





The spreadsheet contains data from Fuel Analysis Reports performed by AVLUBE for various people who posted their results on the Diesel Page.





Thanks fo rthe link. Is there any one particular measurement that determines the most efficient filter? I guess I was comparing based on the ISO code of 13/11/8 of your results however no other numbers are shown, including Overall Efficiency.Edited by: tophog

OC_DMAX,


Didn't your fuel tests show the best results to-date?

Topdog and Mr X,


The fuel sample that I took has shown the best ISO Cleanliness Code results to-date. However, do not form any conclusions from this.


In order to determine the efficiency of the filter, two samples need to be taken. One into the filter and then one out of the filter. When you examine the spreadsheet data, you will see filter efficiency calculated for some filters and not for others. Where no overall filter efficiency data is available, it is because only one sample was taken (at the output).


I took only one sample, just for the simple case of cost. It costs about $60 to have a sample analyzed. Since I fuel at the same Chevron station in my home town of Yorba Linda, CA 90% of the time, I wanted to determine whether the fuel was sufficiently filtered to meet the minimum ISO Cleanliness requirements originally suggested by George Morrison of AVLUBE. The results I obtained met his requirement of 15/13/10 (and exceeded it with some margin). I really was not interested in the overall efficiency. Those results had already been shown to be sufficient (and reasonable) for the Racor 660 filter in previous tests run by Greg L in the spread sheet.


I would not judge any of these supplemental filters as the best solely based on the sample data people have taken and had processed by AVLUBE. The only way to really compare their filtering efficiencies absolutely would be in a lab environment, side-by-side. In my opinion, the conclusion you should take from these tests (and spreadsheet) is that the CAT, Mega and Racor supplemental filters (whether Pre-OEM or Post-OEM) have demonstrated the ability to meet the ISO Cleanliness requirements originally suggested by George.


I hope the above helps,


Have a good day (or whats left of it!!)


AlanEdited by: OC_DMAX

OC_DMAX,


Thank you for your quick clarification. Believe me, it was not my intent to start another filter debate at all.


BTW, I've taken the liberty of archiving on my PC your detailed description of your meticulous sampling technique. That would make a great article in the 'How To, Do it Yourself" forum.


I recall you saying that the varying test results of these 2 micron filters could actually be a reflection of the varying sample collection methods rather than any significant difference in filter efficiency.


They're all delivering results that exceed George's specs.


(Used to live on Yorba Linda Bl & Chapman until '94).

Between Yorba Linda Blvd and Chapman Ave, that puts you over by the University. Used to go by there everyday on the way to work in Fullerton. Now I fight the traffic wars and drive to El Segundo (near LAX) everyday. Oh well,,,


Later,


Alan

Yep it was by Ralph's there.


I have to go from HB to downtown LA. About the same difference as your YL to El Segundo, maybe mines a little shorter come to think of it - about 35 miles for me. No fun on the 405 by LAX or anywhere on the 405, anytime, for that matter.

Alan,


Do you still have the same OEM filter installed from when you took the sample. With your excellant sample it should provide good data on the rust saga. I'd be curious to know if it is clean or rusty.

Alan's comments on not comparing fuel filter results in terms of 'absolute best' are 100% correct. The results we have gotten to date have been incredible considering the environment and conditions the samples have been taken; everyone has done a super job. A fuel filter setup that achieves anything close to the 15/13/10 or better is a 'winner'..
George Morrison, STLE CLS

Speaking of filter casing rust did you all see that report by BlueOx03 of some rust spots in a Baldwin filter replacement for the Mega?

Is it a fact that the BF7635 or a fuel filter for that matter that was cut open. I can't see someone cutting open a unused $40 filter just to look inside. But again I didn't see the post.

i've got about 30 cat filters but i'd hate to cut them all open.. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif will a mirror actually show anything?

I know what you mean. It would be kind of hard for me to cut open a new filter.

Has everyone read the post that smartfix has posted. What is going on with GM on adding the second filter. Makes me wonder if I really want to put the second filter on now.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Broken Heart.gif I don't want to pay to fix the fuel system if I have a problem within the 100,000 mark.

Diesel Power and a bear,

In the "Page" thread entitled "Brand New Fuel Filter Inspection" thread BlueOx03 said he used an inspection mirror and found rust spots in his "stand-by" Baldwin filter.

TX DMAX,

A lot of folks have checked first with their dealers and many have reported that the dealer would have less problems with secondary filters mounted pre-oem, upstream of factory-ionstalled protection.
However, some have also reported that their dealer had no problem with post-oem secondary filter installs. I'd check first.

Thanks Mr X, I did check with my dealer's service manager about 2 weeks ago and he said go pre and it "shouldn't" void my warranty, but after reading smartfix's statement about his meeting with GM, I wonder what GM would say if my dealer called about warranty on fuel system and they were told I have cut into my fuel line before there OME filter. GM runs the dealers, and dealers are going to do what GM says, or am I thinking wrong?

TX-DMAX,


i doubt gm the dealer would call gm looking for a way to void the warranty. after all, just ask yourself how you could make the fuel any dirtier by adding another filter? you could always go see eric, i know his dealership would treat you right :) too bad he's on the opposite end of the country from me... another though i had about the pre-oem filter.. the dealer may very not even notice its there.. after all, if you have an injector or pump problem, and you're not sucking air (to the point it won't run at least) why would they even look at the back of the truck? i've had mine in there twice for other non-fuel system related components and i don't even think they noticed it.


when it doubt, go see dmaxallitech!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Question from a_bear


Alan,


Do you still have the same OEM filter installed from when you took the sample. With your excellant sample it should provide good data on the rust saga. I'd be curious to know if it is clean or rusty.


********************************************


Tommy,


The filters I took the sample with are still installed on the truck. When I took the sample there was approximately 1000 miles on both OEM and supplemental filters.


I purchased six OEM filters about a year ago. The one installed on the truck came from the batch of six. I opened the four remaining filters today. I used an inspection mirror to look inside where the water sensor screws into the filter. The photo below is the worst one I found. There are some minor surface rust spots (All four have spots of rust). Remember, the picture was taken looking into a mirror, so the surface you see is actually the inside end of the filter.





http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/8F8_Fuel_Filter4.jpg


So my assumption would be that the filter installed on the truck is in a similar condition. With respect to the four new filters, I plan to clean them up, spray a light oil inside and then re-seal them. They should be useable in the future



Another thing I noticed while inspecting the four new filters plus two used ones that I had cut apart previously; the plastic end piece on the filter that the water sensor screws into has changed somewhere along the way. Take a look at the pictures posted by Mdrag on TDP. Look really carefully at the plastic end piece. His pictures show two different types. If you have some older and newer filters on hand, also look at the threads. There are some changes there also. I wonder why the change was made (or do we have two different suppliers?)



AlanEdited by: OC_DMAX

I also checked the one, new in the box, Allison tranny filter I have on the garage shelf (per Steamboat's comment from TDP). Now my new tranny filter really has some rust problems! And all this is in low humidity Southern California. Looks like Racor doesn't have a monopoly on rusting filters.

Lesson Learned: Since I buy filters in bulk, I really need to pay attention on how they are stored.





Alan








http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/Allison_Filter2.jpg

George was kind enough to cut open a CAT 0749 filter today. He said that when these filters are cut open, you should smell the anti-corrosive coating (vanishing oil) on the inside if it was used in mfg. This should keep it from rusting almost indefinately. The CAT filter pictured had the oil on it and no corrosion whatsoever. Has anyone else found this film inside a rusty filter (new of course)? Thanks for wasting a perfectly good filter George http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif. Now we've seen 4 so far! To bad you couldn't photograph that rusty Baldwin you told me about. I would have liked to see the inside of it after hearing about what came out.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/563_MVC-001F.JPG


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/AC9_MVC-002F.JPG


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/4Z1_MVC-003F.JPG


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/373_MVC-004F.JPGEdited by: Diesel Power

That CAT 0749 looks clean as a whistle. Glad that I've got one on my truck!


I imagine the Primrose 405 water emulsifier would arrest rust formation in any RACOR OEM fuel filters prone to rust.

I apologize for my photo quality, as the CAT filter case internals have a much better surface finish than my photos reveal. I wanted to show the top of the CAT 1R-0749 fuel filter which is is a beautiful aluminum casting as opposed to the normal stamped metal top. The aluminum casting used in the filter base provides a much more rigid, stable base and obviously no possibility for corrosion to occur. George Morrison


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/DB9_MVC-007F.JPGEdited by: Georgecls

Mr. X - good question. Perhaps George can answer. If our oem filters are potentially rusty on the inside, what if anything should we do about it (besides call racor/gm and complain)? Will the 405 help? i presume it would be best to not throw any more water at an already rusty filter?

Yes, the use of Primrose 405 will help minimize corrosion advancement in the OEM filter body. Primrose 405 contains a very effective corrosion inhibitor that will provide a good level of rust prevention/protection. Additionally Primrose 405 will 'lock up' free water thereby eliminating a corrosion causing component, providing two-fold rust prevention chemistry.
George Morrison, STLE CLS Edited by: Georgecls

Thanks again George. Sounds like Mr. X will be picking up some 405.. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I've been using Primrose 405 for about the last 5,000 miles after George originally recommended it. I order it from AVLube the same time I order my Delvac 1 from them.


Like running with the CAT 0749 fuel filter, still another added degree of peace of mind protection for the fuel system.

Pardon me Phil.. You definately got the jump on me there :)