Hey guys ive decided to put off my exaust system until I get a chance to hear some in person (possibly dyno day in LA coming up soon). I have always heard good things about volant CAI intake systems but there diesel system hasn't been out for long. I have heard that K&N is a bit over hyped, and I have had Airaid products back in the day of my 5.7, but until I bought a diesel haden't heard or seen AFE before. I had always heard that having a plastic intake pipe was better than an aluminum one in terms of heat. I have heard that there are benefits of a box, instead of a shield, etc.


For my truck (6.6 duramax) what system will offer the best flowing filter (that still filters and does its job), largest diameter intake tube, fit, sound, and draws in efficient air (colder).


Or is the stock system with a replacement filter good enough?


Also pictures are always appreciated!

I plan on going with a unifilter in a swiss cheesed box. I already have the filter(from kennedy) and a spare box. Now I just have to find the time to punch the holes.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

I think that for sheer flow the AFE takes the cake. The tube is huge on the thing.. Plus it keeps the MAF in the stock position while most others don't seem to. Negatives are that it's not a nice looking airbox compared to the BD X-Intake that it replaced on my truck. The BD unit had a bigger diameter filter and a larger (than AFE) polished stainless steel airbox. Unfortunately it was only useable with the stock intake tube.


The AFE could fit better, the whole tube has to be taken off just to get the filter on/off. I can deal with that stuff, I just like the turbo whistle.

Just don't look for any HP/TQ increasees.


No Matter Who's Intake You Buy ...........


It will allow the turbo will spool a little faster but the whistle effect is the BEST !!!!!!!!!!





Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gifNY

Morning Members,


Here's the reason we ONLY sell AFE's Pro Guard 7:


Here's what Dan Montegari of Precision Diesel Services says about advanced FLOW engineering's Pro-GUARD 7 filter media:




outbind://45-000000000C8B3A2ACD29B04698AE3DB654D3D3FC441F2500/No%20AttachName
HIGH FLOW AIR INTAKE SYSTEMS
WHO IS THE BEST & WHY!


We received many letters asking which high flow air intake system to use. We decided to test a number of manufacturers’ systems to determine which system was superior. We tested each system and found systems manufactured by AFE (Advanced Flow Engineering) were the best by far.


Diesel engines use seven times more air than gasoline engines of equivalent size so clean cool air is a must for extended engine life, better fuel economy and additional power. A higher flow of intake air coupled with a high flow exhaust system allows for more power, a better fuel economy, extended engine life and reduced exhaust temperatures. On the other hand ingested dirt through the air intake system becomes Silicon in the engine oil, which is a harsh cutting agent and can damage your engine quickly.


We tested three very popular systems. I will not mention the names of the other systems as a courtesy but I will explain what problems we found with them. We evaluated the systems by a number of criteria, filtration protection, flow, and design, easy of installation and cost. Almost in the beginning of the tests we realized in most instances a new intake system was necessary to achieve our goals. We needed a kit that used mostly outside air and not hot engine compartment air. We decided to use systems designed to use mostly outside air.


Two manufacturers claimed their systems delivered cleaner air at a higher flow but this was far from the truth. We did not believe any of the manufacturers’ claims and tested each system by operating the vehicle 3,000 miles and performing an engine oil analysis to determine Silicon levels in the engine oil. The vehicle we used has an engine oil analysis performed at every oil change so we had a Silicon number of three (3) to base our tests on.


The first manufacturer’s system was fairly easy to install but we had problems with the oil used to coat the filter also coated the Mass Air Flow Sensor causing a service engine lamp to come on. I called the manufacturer but they had no explanation as to why this should happen but they had this complaint before. Through the three thousand mile test I had to clean the sensor three times to stop the service engine lamp from coming on. When the oil analysis results came back, it was discouraging with Silicon levels at eleven (11). I almost could not believe the result so we changed the oil and filter and repeated the test. The results were almost the same eliminating this manufacturer quickly. I contacted the manufacturer to discuss the results and they were not helpful and basically said, “what you see is what you get”!


We installed the second manufacturer’s system again changing the engine oil and operating the vehicle for three thousand miles. The first problem we encountered was the service engine lamp coming on and I thought the oil they used was coatin

Great info Mark http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif


I still have a stock intake on my truck, because of the silicon/oil issue http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif.


Q: Why they use oil to coat the filter? Why don't they make the filter out of the same paper stock filter is made of?

Great info Mark http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif


I still have a stock intake on my truck, because of the silicon/oil issue http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif.


Q: Why they use oil to coat the filter? Why don't they make the filter out of the same paper stock filter is made of?





The gauze / foam filters require oil as an aid to help better filter the air passing through. Most of the gauze type filters you can see light pass through. I guess the oil grabs more particles. http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif Paper is the most efficent FILTERING media. You don't see many industrial / commercial diesels running foam or gauze...


UMP makes a real nice box, with PAPER element, that should be nearing release as we speak... Ox has some pics in his sig...


Ty

Thanks Ty


Don't they make a paper element/open air box combo?


It needs to work with my ram air hood http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Those of you voting for other will you please state what you vote for, swiss cheesed stock box? UMP? etc.

Paper is the most efficent FILTERING media. You don't see many industrial / commercial diesels running foam or gauze...





I guess you'll have to define efficient ....


Efficient as in maintenance or filtering quality ??


Was it George Morrison who did FERROGRAPHIC OIL ANALYSIS test that showed OEM PAPER elements was the worst efficient at trapping dirt particles ?? Or am I mistaken ?? After all George is running a Uni last I checked ....I would think the Man from Avlube would have paper in his airbox ...


My Oil analysis has showed low silicon levels with AFE and nylon sock filtering to 5 um ...


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif





Edited by: Mackin

You cant go with the theory that 'Just because you see paper filters on everything, they must be the best'. If that theory were true, then Ford would actually be the best truck around! ~The only reason you see so many paper element filters -and fords- around is because they're Cheap to make and cheap to buy, not because they're anywhere near the best quality. http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


I didnt vote cuz I dont know.


I've always used K&N, but I just ordered the AFE2 for my Dmax.

Well im gonna wait for a bit longer before I make a decision but if I do choose to go with AFE where can I find the best price?? I can get an alright deal through a friend on K&N, Airaid, and Volant but he can't get AFE so where should I look>??


Thanx guys





Still would like to hear from someone using volant and Pictures are always appreciated!!!!!!Edited by: chaps

Good info Mark. UhOh, something else I may have to try out.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif What is the difference between the stage 1 and stage 2 afe proguard intakes? Would it be the prefilter perhaps? Or maybe the intake tube? How much do these sell for with a prefilter?

efficient : able to accomplish a purpose without wasting effort or expense.


Efficient as in maintenance or filtering quality ??


Combination of the two. That statement was a bit ambiguous.


Paper elements are pleated, thereby giving them a large surface area. Because the pores of paper elements plug up, you need a larger surface area, hence the pleats. Filter-minder detects restriction, replace. No wasted effort, or great expense, though re-occurring, I'll give you that much.


For the average Joe, a paper element will work fine in the stock box. Yes, a diesel likes to breathe. I swiss cheesed my air box in deliberate locations so as to allow more airflow into the box, while not sucking in warm engine compartment air.


Do most people need a BETTER filter? Not really. When was the last time you heard someone complain that (under normal operating circumstances) their air filter passed too much dirt into the engine, causing it to fail prematurely?


The reason nearly everything comes factory with paper elements, from lawn mowers to industrial diesels, is in fact, efficiency. They filter at a level that is effective to sustain said engine for a lifetime, with normal maintenance, of course.


Keep in mind, I'm no expert in automotive air filtration. I don't claim to be. I also have no allegiance to any after market filter crapola.


I believe the dyno has proven it makes no difference which filter/ intake system you have... Depends on what level of filtration you want. Gets to be more of a cosmetic thing...


For the same money as the AFE, I'll go 200,000 miles, easy, on paper filters. And I'd wager my engine won't fail because of that either.


Like I'm going to keep this thing that long...


I have to go make sure I've got a PAPER filter on the shelf. It'll probably need changing soon...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif


Ty

What is the difference between the stage 1 and stage 2 afe proguard intakes?


Stage 1 (part #50-121) is just the cold air box with filter.


Stage 2 (part #50-122) is the cold air box, filter and intake tube.


I've been kicking the idea around of a Stage 2 with filter wrap for a while now. Haven't made the commitment yet. Still looking for a good price.

Yes I too am interested in where to find the best price on an AFE stage 2. There are alot of guys running them so who thinks they got the best deal??

AFE => http://www.xtremediesel.com/


For Ty => http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?UseCase=L001&UserAction=viewHomePage


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gifEdited by: Mackin

Thanx mackin that price seems reasonable! What do u mean Ty? cause I can'y find the AFE set-up on autozones website.


Anyone else know anywhere i can find and AFE stage 2 for less than 235?

Here's my thinking on this,

The answer for what this turned into is:
Run paper for longevity, Like you see on heavy equipment and Big Rigs.

Run gauze or foam for all out performance, like you see on race vehicles.

Think about it, how does an oiled gauze or foam filter of the same size flow more air? Simple, less media. When you have less media, you can pass more air though the filter. You can also flow bigger particles through it.

Yes it's true that just because something is more widely used doesn't make it better. But think about this, if Oiled gauze or foam filtered better you would see the on big rigs and heavy equipment that need to run extremely high mileage or hours. Furthermore being that those machines run so many miles/hours it would be much cheaper to run a cleanable/re-useable element. Why wouldn't they run something cheaper? I'd guess that in the long run, it's not worth it.

Run what you want it's your truck...

One last note, I'd think twice about replacing the OEM intake tube with one with no ability to flex...


Ox

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


Here's hoping my tears don't make my paper filter deteriorate...


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


Chaps - you won't find one at autozone... Mac is just bustin' my chops...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


Ty http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

Thanx mackin that price seems reasonable! What do u mean Ty? cause I can'y find the AFE set-up on autozones website.


Anyone else know anywhere i can find and AFE stage 2 for less than 235?





For TY is for paper elements ....


Good luck finding it cheaper plus FREE shipping .... No endorsement, I haven't dealt with xtreame diesel accept I invited him to come on over .... He did do the dyno runs on the Banks Six-gun tho and is a POSTING member .... Just has rock bottom prices that you can't touch even on http://mail.wackywack.com/forum/smileys/Throw%20Up.gif Ebay ...


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Dam I was typing oops .... What Ty said ... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif





\

Ox


What's your thinking on non flexable intake tube ??


The AFE is Rubber boot attached to the intake plenum ... It also has a rubber mounting washer for flexability at the box ... It will wiggle with the Max ...


20k of trouble free non hotwire busting high volume CFM sucking whistling fun .........


Does the Tornado Ump aircleaner spin counter or clockwise ?? I was wondering how many times it has to filter the same dirt spinning round and round like a Merry Go Round at the circus ... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Uni makes a cone element that will fit on the KN tube and also has a pre cleanner that you oil before stretching it over the filter makeing it a 3 layer foam. when I could see daylight through the filter (KN) is when I made the change. guess oil sample will tell the tale. I feel all the gauze filters are the same, just tubes on some are fancier.


Geno


Daylight through KN was after first cleaning and not one dent in filter, Anyone need a sparehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Chaps voted other Uni FoamEdited by: geno

Remember the old oil bath filters with the steel mesh, reason they stopped, it was so hard to service and you still see some around on big iron


Geno

Well im gonna wait for a bit longer before I make a decision but if I do choose to go with AFE where can I find the best price?? I can get an alright deal through a friend on K&N, Airaid, and Volant but he can't get AFE so where should I look>??





I dont think you can beat Jons prices! Check and see....


http://www.mufflerandperformance.com/ (http://www.mufflerandperformance.com/)


But give Jon a call for the best price:


(800) 492-4544


By the way, Im not affiliated with this guy at all, just a customer. But I can honestly say, I've had opportunity to test his service and he came through very well!

Does the Tornado Ump aircleaner spin counter or clockwise ??





Depends if you're north or south of the equator. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

The OEM intake tube has a flex joint in it for a couple reasons. to allow for movement and to make it easier to change the element. If you replace it with something stiffer, there's more possibility to pull it apart at a joint and pull in unfiltered air. small possibility? Yes, but still more posable than stock. I'd like to see some testing done on an engine with your setup, I bet it'd change your mind.

Since Gauze and foam filters are so good at filtering and they flow better to boot, some of you guys should get together and develop fuel and oil filters of the same media...you'll be rich!! That's been the fuel filter problem all along, paper media.

The fact is, it's physically impossible for a filter media of the same size to flow more air, and filter out finer particles.

The only circus act here is you and your side show friends. How big are those blocks and the booster chair again? I mean the smaller set for the Saab...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif I already met Dip...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Later,
Ox

Hello all,


In an attempt to make a positive contribution to this site, I will tell you a story. I have been a die hard K&N supporter, for over 13 years.I have used the 14"x3" round type on gas engines for a long time. Add a little extra oil, install and then forget about it. The dirtyier the better. The blacker the better! I liked K&N so much that I installed one in my stock Dmaxbox location. It has been in there for over 14K.


Just recently I cleaned it for the first time. Approx. 2k ago. It was very difficult to clean due to the deep pleats. I had to get after it a little harder than I would normally have liked to.


After all of the air filter talk I inspected my filter today. First I checked the tube. It had a thin layer of very very fine dust in it. This prompted me to hold my filter up to the light. After stairing at it very closely, I noticed several small holes along the ridges of the pleats. This is not good. I will be replacing my filter with either a paper element or an UNI.


I do have say in defence of K&N that there instructions tell you to be very gentle with the cleaning. I never noticed these small holes apon installation an attribute them soley to my cleaning technique. What good is an air filter if you can not clean it? The one on my Bronco is so oversized that it does not require cleaning. The one on the Dmax needs to be cleaned or it will get spit out the tail pipe.


This site frustrates me at times, however I am greatfull for the info. in regards to air filter selection. Thankfully I have not been on any dirty roads since I damaged my air filter. I will be purchasing a new non K&N filter soon.Edited by: Bronco

OX


The OEM intake tube has a flex joint in it for a couple reasons. to allow for movement and to make it easier to change the element. If you replace it with something stiffer, there's more possibility to pull it apart at a joint and pull in unfiltered air. small possibility?


Your really grasping at straws here .... Last time I checked the OEM box was fixed to the plate that holds the filter and if the top wasn't flexible to move out of the way .... How would you even change the element ?? I can remove my air cleaner without issue and I'm not that paranoid to cover up the tube while I'm changing to cover the opening with a rag even when the wind is blowing .... Loosing the joints on a stiff pipe as in the AFE or twisting bending the OEM snorkel is no different ... If you think my setup is loose your welcome to pull on "my pipe" next time we have a dyno meet ... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif


The fact is, it's physically impossible for a filter media of the same size to flow more air, and filter out finer particles.


Blah blah blah .... Ox in all fairness I'm a pavement warrior .... I don't off road my ass is to wide .... I don't dirt track sprint car race either ... Paper elements have failed miserably in many test areas ... Nothing is perfect for every application .... I feel comfortable with the AFE you with your UMP ... Great .... Everything so far is opinion nothing scientific to back it up good or bad,except for my oil analysis....


The only circus at here is you and your side show friends. How big are those blocks and the booster chair again? I mean the smaller set for the Saab...http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif I already met Dip...http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif




Real Nice ....


Just remember You brought the Southern friends in and the've formed opinions too of the general crowd .....


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gifEdited by: Mackin

"The only circus act here is you and your side show friends".......getting kinda ugly are ya there oxhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/981_ox.giflooks like the only thing bigger than your exhaust tips is your mouth. Hey run what you got and hope we never line up at a light.......

I already met Dip...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Later,
Ox


Something on your mind OXIE........

Dang dave, taking things a little serios aren't we? Mac throws em any chance he gets, I gotta get one in now and then. Nice jab, but your mouth is much bigger than mine, or you run duals...Sounds like you're hoping we never meet up at a light...

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/3B1_peelout.gifyeah right.........Im shakin


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/76A_poke.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/BZE_poke.gif

ps what is a "7 3/4 BalfalinatorII "?Edited by: sdaver

It's a joke.


Look, all I was saying is that paper is a better media for filtering and oiled gauze or foam is better for performance. I never said paper was better for performance. I was also only stating an opinion about the intake tube. I thought this was a place to discuss truck and parts. If you guys don't expect jabs, don't throw them. I don't even post here without anticipating some crap from someone out there. Whatever, this is just a forum....


Ox

Big dipper-you paranoid or what? That had nothing to do with you. I guess you guys don't get it. Never mind...

Ox


Wrote The only circus act here is you and your side show friends. How big are those blocks and the booster chair again? I mean the smaller set for the Saab...http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif I already met Dip...http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Later,
Ox



This is where it went wrong ,off trucks .... I didn't have an issue with it if you notice in my responce ... If others picked up on something well you explain it ...


I wish you would address my responce so this gets back to aftermarket goodies .....





Mac

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/4E5_ox.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

For all of you using Uni's(and I am 1 of them). Hold it up to the sun and you CAN see plenty of little light holes popping through.

I doubt that this is good.Edited by: problemchild

Hello,


I have never seen a UNI filter in person. I have however seen a damaged K&N. It was not just light showing through but litterally holes with no oil or foam stopping the light from coming through. If the Uni does this as well, then there is no point in me replacing my K&N with a UNI. Please do not tell me I am going to have to go the way of the 1fatcat and go back to paper? Please tell me there are no straight unobstructed holes in a UNI? Edited by: Bronco

I plan on running a pre-filter so that should take care of any "holes" that can be seen looking through the filter of the AFE. We run a pre-filtered K&N on our dune buggy which is driven in sand every weekend and seems to be working well.


Thanx for all the responses guys!

Mac let me refresh your memory...
Mackin wrote-Does the Tornado Ump aircleaner spin counter or clockwise ?? I was wondering how many times it has to filter the same dirt spinning round and round like a Merry Go Round at the circus ...

That's where the ball busting between us started. You started with others prior to that. Mac i always thought that was a good quality of yours, you can give it and take it. Any time I post on here, I'm ready for a crap storm, I can take it, maybe some others think I dish it back had or I'm serious. I really don't take thew ball busting here serious. Speaking of which, you lost me on the southerners comment...

I don't ever intend for things to end in a knock down drag out. I think for the most part, I get misunderstood. My fault, I'm better at talking that typing. I wish for the sake of those looking for info that this wouldn't have happened. On the other hand, I'm glad this happened, I got to see some true colors...

All that said, I still would rather not remove the stock intake tube. If I were to install a gauze/foam element, I'd run a round one either inside the OEM air-box or with a barrier around it. I agree the stock paper filter is not that great of quality. It'd be nice if there was a good quality treated paper replacement. The Donaldson element in the air-box I currently run is a high quality element. I'm sure that and some other things I'm testing and assisting in the development of with prove to be very beneficial to clean oil. I'll be purchasing a production model of the Super Filter once it comes out in mass production. If I ever get hard core into racing my truck, I'll consider running and intake similar to yours at the track and even then more for the sound than anything.

In the end as with anything, we all have to look at what's available in out price range and what's best for our application and buy what we want...

Motor on...

Ox

And dave don't ask, I ain't goin no where near a boat with you...

For all of you using Uni's(and I am 1 of them). Hold it up to the sun and you CAN see plenty of little light holes popping through.

I doubt that this is good.


NOT MINE only lite I see is when I stick a lite bulb in side but no tiny holes.


Geno

For all of you using Uni's(and I am 1 of them). Hold it up to the sun and you CAN see plenty of little light holes popping through.

I doubt that this is good.


I have also seen small holes when holding the UNI filter up to the sun. Nothing near as bad as the K&N though. I'm hoping that this depth media and the turbulance of the air passing through it would give the particles a good chance to stick to the oil on the sides of the holes. When I pull the filter I will then inspect the intake tube for fine dust. A small build up of dust is what made me get rid of the K&N.

Went ahead and ordered the AFE stage 2 and it arrived last night so I went ahead and threw it on in about 30 minutes. I didn't have any issues with fitment but the side of the CAD does flex a bit when the motor is tourquing (is that a word?). Sounds nice and the intake tube is HUGE.


Need to order a pre-filter soon though cause its in the desert almost every weekend.


Thanx to all participants in the poll and for the comments!