. . . for the SMF/double disc kit should show up next week, according to my discussion with Peter Pyfer this morning. Currently the single disc kit is still expected to take another month to complete.

After the testing and discussion with Peter I will let you all know how things went and when kits are available for sale.

Feel free to call me (303.882.2181) if you have any questions.

Cheers,
John

I spoke with Peter Pyfer a few minutes ago. I should be getting some pictures soon, and will try to post them before I leave for vacation this thursday morn.

Unfortunately, they had a problem with one of the suppliers who machined the flywheel a little too small !! SBC has already ordered another steel billet and will have the test kit re-done by the time I return next week.

More later,
John

SBC's flywheel manufacturer broke it's CNC spindle last week. They had to order a replacement part from Germany and it showed up this week. The CNC is 20' tall and bigger than most garages so it will take a couple days to get it installed and tested. Peter is going on Saturday to make the test flywheel and plans on shipping it on Monday.

Installation and test will take place the same or next day and response to Peter will be immediate. The flywheel is the current long pole in the tent and once they get the go ahead they will be able to produce 4 a day. Peter has ordered (and I believe has received them) 30 billets for fly wheels. Currently GM will not sell the ring gears seperately, so SBC is having to buy about 20 new DMFs to pull off the ring gears for the new SMF kits, so they will be available asap. It will take about 90 days for the new ring gear mfg to get to production. In the meantime, Peter is willing to pay to have any existing DMF shipped to his shop so the ring gear can be pulled off an used for a new kit. If you have an old DMF sitting arround, please contact either me or Peter Pyfer at SBC. The ring gears availability may slow down the SMF availability after the first twenty to thirty are done until the mfg gets cranked up. Help for SBC would be appreciated.

Peter will take some new pics and weigh the new kit before he ships it to me on Monday. By next week we should have a firm price ($1,795 probably) and the weight to calculate shipping. By the following week my website will be up with the pictures and on-line order form (credit cards).

The first few units are spoken for so if you have an immediate need now is the time. Once ordered you will receive a receipt and installation instructions with pictures and a phone number for some help.

The clutch kit is leaving SBC TODAY!! It will be arriving tomorrow and we will be installing it in my truck Tue. night!! We will keep you all posted as to the results!

Be sure to get some pictures! My new trailer is tooooo much for the stock clutch. Any moderate acceleration causes the hard pedal syndrome. Looking forward to the release of the single disk DMF kit!

The SMF kit arrived yesterday. Installation last nite revealed a machine error on the crankshaft side of the flywheel. The kit will be returned to SBC for a change. This should be pretty easy to fix but will delay the start of production by at least another week.

Otherwise, everything on the kit looked really cool. I will try to get some pics available soon.

Well nothin beats a good time like pull'in the ol' ZF-6....lemme tell ya! Even better than that....... is knowing we get to do it all over again in a week or so! Well at least we are making progress on the kit and no one else will have to endure this pain! I'll take a turbo swap over this anyday!! More information to come!

I'll take a turbo swap over this anyday!! More information to come!

LOL.. no you wouldn't// Trust me

When you get time. What is the weight difference between a DMF, SMF, and Dual disc SMF? All including the clutch.

If I understand your question correctly, you mean the total weight including flywheel, clutch, and PP for: stock, dual disc, and single disc?

I can go weigh a take-off stock DMF, clutch, and PP. It will be a while before the single disc (SBC) kit can be weighed. The shipping weight of the new SBC SMF/DDC kit is 106# and I would guess the box was a pound?

I will try to remember to weigh the stock tonite when I get home.

Exactly. I'm just curious if the rotating mass is greater, less, or equal to stock.

LOL.. no you wouldn't// Trust me

:funnypost
Well Juice if anyone knows it's you for sure!!! Come on over and pull my tranny next weekend for me..):h !! In the next couple of weeks when your next turbo goes boom I'll come up and swap it out for you.:muahaha: Then we can compare notes!

:funnypost
Well Juice if anyone knows it's you for sure!!! Come on over and pull my tranny next weekend for me..):h !! In the next couple of weeks when your next turbo goes boom I'll come up and swap it out for you.:muahaha: Then we can compare notes!

LMFAO!

It would be extremely difficult to blow the IHI Turbo... It only makes 9 PSI of boost.

The big one is also loafing along.... in fact it is well nigh impossible to bark the Twins unless you are seriously trying to do it!

Have fun with the trans (still lighter than an Allison you pansy):lol:

LMFAO!

It would be extremely difficult to blow the IHI Turbo... It only makes 9 PSI of boost.

The big one is also loafing along.... in fact it is well nigh impossible to bark the Twins unless you are seriously trying to do it!

Have fun with the trans (still lighter than an Allison you pansy):lol:

Well....I was thinking it was time for a new 2.0 release of the juicegrips...or would be 4.0 now that you have twins???
Pansy huh, you try bust'in 8 bolts @ 170ftlbs...good times!

Well....I was thinking it was time for a new 2.0 release of the juicegrips...or would be 4.0 now that you have twins???
Pansy huh, you try bust'in 8 bolts @ 170ftlbs...good times!

No Problem.
A TQ Multiplier wrench was needed to re and re the flexplate on my truck. 170lbs-ft would have been a dream to re and re...

Mine wouldn't budge with 2- 200 lb guys on the ring gear wrench and 2 200lb guys per bolt on a 5 foot pipe!:eek:

Compounded Juicegrips(TM) Certification is in the works!

No Problem.
A TQ Multiplier :eek:

:grd: Best and cheapest tool in the shop!!

Jeli;
the stock kit, according to my ancient bathroom scale, weighs 88#

BTW, the SBC SMF/DDC kit is nearly the same weight as the other aftermarket SMF kit. I expect the SBC SMF will get a little lighter (but not much) once the back side of the flywheel gets re-milled.

So rough and tough the new setups will have the same inertia. I was curious because big changes would make a dif on how the truck runs. I'm thinking about differences between 10" clutch flywheels in cars vs 12" clutches in pickups on older gassers.

Thanx.

For a diesel, with much more tq than a gasser, a heavy flywheel will not be a big issue. the difference between the wt of my current SMF and the stock has no impact that I can notice. Keep in mind the flywheel is turning all the time so acceleration is not going to be slowed much (unless the stock slips ). Mine has run 14.6 in 1/4 mile and the truck is lifted and weighs 7600+#. The current clutch kit weighs nearly the same as the SBC SMF/DDC.

So what's the latest update for these bad boys Deadeye? I'm starting to get parts and tools ready just itching for the install. Starting to get excited, it's almost worse than Christmas.

-Zorganov

Trevor;
I just got off the phone and they are shipping it now. Arrive tomorrow. Install and test Saturday. Results post Sun.

The SMF was redone due to the review of my findings by SBC and the guys that do the machining. Peter intended to call me but he gets over 100 calls a day and he still has real work to do!!

I finally got all the pricing and shipping info and I will try to post this weekend and get the website updated with details on Monday. Additionally, I hope to do the final revision to the installation instructions this weekend. 40 pages, ~70 pictures, etc. not a lot different than the one I sent you.

more later,
John

cool!! looking forward to it!!

cool!! looking forward to it!!


I just received a tracking # and it should show up at am.

First just to clairify Dynadroit Clutches Inc. which includes Deadeye and myself are SOLELY responsible for all the testing of the beta SBC SMF clutch kits.
Deadeye and I got the latest revised SMF and Clutch from SBC in my truck on Saturday. The first thing I noticed once installed was the balance was not where it needs to be. My truck had a noticeable vibration at idle but disappeared as the RPM's increased. So a little fine tuning around balance will be necessary.
Second and biggest issue was the lack of engagement of clutch discs after the pedal was released. We have determined it was caused due to the location of the pressure plate fingers in relationship to the slave cylinder. We spoke with Peter and gave him our recommendations on the necessary changes to the pressure plate and the fingers.
As it stands right now some changes need to be made to the design before we can install it but we are making great progress! I guess if this was easy GM would have done it long ago.

looks like you guys are making some great progress with the DD, We worked with Peter last year on the Double Disc for the ford's. Ran into a few snags like you did, But finally got it right on the third one. Put 50+ hooks on it now. Hope to be working with Peter here again real soon on an iron giant for a FORD :ro)


Have fun

Travis

Yes, definately a few snags but all for the greater good. Never I thought I would know the underside of my truck as well as the topside! But with every install we learn some new tricks to help speed up the process! I have no doubt when this is done we have the best SMF/Dual Disc kit on the market capable of holding some BIG HP #'s!!

SBC is redoing the flywheel again. Will show up tomorrow. This redo will reduce the weight by a few more pounds and mate up to the SC better.

More later. . .

The SBC prototype SMF/DDC kit was installed on 12/23 and worked successfully. The pedal was a little harder than stock but not much. Interestingly, there was no rattle with the pedal out in neutral. With the pedal in we could hear the clutch plates spinning against the floater plate a little. I expect that once the kit is broke in this will get even quieter. We need to run about 200 miles on it before we can do some power testing. However, I expect it will hold more rwhp than we can put on the truck.

More later,

Hurray for me, hurry for you, hurray for all of us!!!!

The final version of the test kit has finally been installed! Deadeye and I have spent many nights in the shop installing and uninstalling this kit shooting for perfection on this flywheel! Finally we have what we have all been waiting for, the ulitmate replacement of the P.O.S. GM DMF!
Immediately upon backing it out of the shop I noticed the firmness of the pedal which I actually prefer to the wimpy stock feel. Also, I noticed how quickly the plates lock up and engage...but not to the point where it easily stalls the truck! You can feel them grab and transfer the power to the wheels much more quickly. So far driveability is quite good and should be no problem for day to day use. It does make more noise as Deadeye mentioned in both neutral and with the pedal depressed but well within tollerable limits. So far I have put about 150 miles on it so as soon as it hits about 200 I can start turning up the power!! The good news is that is about the distance I commute every day so looks like I will be laying down some rubber tonight! We will definately keep you all posted with the power holding results!
A GREAT BIG THANKS TO DEADEYE AND ALL HIS HARD WORK ON THIS AND ALSO TO SBC FOR PUTTING THIS AWESOME KIT TOGETHER!!!!!!!!

Well I have already put 200 miles on the clutch so I was able to CRANK up the power a bit! So far no hard pedal issue what so ever and definatly no SLIPPING!! FLAT OUT... THIS THING PUTS THE POWER TO THE PAVEMENT!!!!
My 33" tires were begg'n for mercy!!):h ....:eek:

Well I have already put 200 miles on the clutch so I was able to CRANK up the power a bit! So far no hard pedal issue what so ever and definatly no SLIPPING!! FLAT OUT... THIS THING PUTS THE POWER TO THE PAVEMENT!!!!
My 33" tires were begg'n for mercy!!):h ....:eek:

Compared to stock, how hard is it to depress the pedal?

Does the clutch feel very 'grabby'?

Otis;
I now have a stock DMF on my truck (dealer visit) for the first time in a year. It is very limp. The SMF pedal is a couple time stiffer and disengages at the bottom vs the top on a DMF. However, it is still much easier to push than the original Macs SMF I have. The clutches do not squeal at all. You can hear them "wisk" a little as the pedal is in since they are new and still a little rough. I expect that once they smooth out the "wisk" will reduce. It is not very loud. The flywheel does not rattle as the Macs one did. Not yet sure why at this point. As far as grabbing, it does a little but no where near what the Macs did. The reason it does a little is because the pressure plate is stronger than the stock ones so the kit can hold more power. All in all, it is a decent daily driver kit.

PM comming.

Good Luck.

Arn't ya kinda comparing Apples to Oranges there john? not saying that the mac's was all you ever dreamed of but..... the single disk street i offer sounds like every thing you need for getting grosseries and gadding around.it will hold 450 -500 rwhp on the street.

the stock clutch wont' even hold 300 hp and the mac's dual disk PULLER holds 600-700+.... you might have to sacrafice a little comfort and noise for that. it is built just like a full blown modified pulling truck clutch without the weighted finger pp. if you want a quiet, smooth, street clutch.... BUY ONE...

I hope the south bend is a good mix of PULLER and STREET... i think that is what several of us need for our street trucks that pull once in a while. I am very excited to see one and have a nother option for people like you to choose..

"it is still much easier to push than the original Macs SMF I have" the SMF has nothing to do with pressure....that would be the way the PP is set....

for all of you that are wondering the Rattle you get with a single mass flywheel is the TRANNY... it vibrates more since the sprung flywheel is not there to absorb the shock of each stroke and combustion in the motor.

Evan;

I was describing my experience with flywheels I own and use. Not with ones that you sell.

My old Macs kit was modified do to some problems and it's pedal is now about the same as the SBC pedal. However, the old Mac's kit still squeals during streeet driving when the temperature is high or a lot of stop and starts. Ditto for grabbing. It does hold a lot of rwhp.

Having said this I am not presuming the same happens with your product.

I have no experience with any aftermarket single disc SMF kit so I am not making any comments regarding that.

Let the Haggle begin !!!

No "Haggle" necessary as John states the facts based on experience with both Mac's SMF/DD and now the SBC SMF/DD kit we are testing. The only difference in the two is the Flywheel design and materials contained on the discs and the flywheel. This is what has eliminated the squeel off of pedal release on the SBC kit. I have driven both as well and I would say they ARE apples to apples in terms of both are SMF's with dual discs capable of holding high HP and TQ #'s. The Mac's kit is great and completely capable of performing it's designed task. Its' disengagement is a bit grabby compared to the SBC but well within driving limits. Believe me we will be pushing this SBC kit to the 800 HP level for testing to ensure it's holding capabilities. So far every indication leads me to believe it is more than capable of being a great daily driver as well as hold big HP!! I drive 40 miles each day to work on Colorado's busiest highway I-25...basically stop and go for 1 1/2 hours everyday and so far I have no complaints on driveability of the kit!

how hard is the clutch pedal to push in? I dont like hard pedals to push. What is the hardest part to get used to with the new kit?

how hard is the clutch pedal to push in? I dont like hard pedals to push. What is the hardest part to get used to with the new kit?

no big deal. it is stiffer at the bottom than the stock but it is not hard to push or hold. not something you need to be worried about.

I think this is great.We have 2 choices for quality clutches.Thanks for all your effort guys.

Ill let yall know how it feels when my kit gets here in a week or so:ro)

As John stated not hard at all to get used to. Takes a little more leg strength to hold the pedal down but still a lot easier than the old non-hydraulic assisted set-ups. The only thing you have to get used to is being able to run with HP cranked up all the time and not run people over!!!

When the single disk kit comes out, it wont be hard to push the pedal right? It would be closer to stock i think. Do you think that it would consistantly hold 500 horsepower???

Phil;

As I mentioned earlier, the dual disc is not that hard. I expect the single will not be hard either. If it was like stock that would be due to a weak pressure plate. It will be a little harder than stock but not something to worry about. As to rwhp, we will not know for sure until the prototype is available for testing. Your stock engine runs about 248 rwhp. To double that consistently the kit needs to be pretty stout. I expect it to do so but you are asking for a "consistant hold" which no one can presently validate. Once we get one we will let you know what we find out.

Well we pulled the SBC Double Disc out this weekend for examination. I put about 700 miles on it and we wanted to see how things were holding up. Upon examination the flywheel and clutch look to be just as it was the day we put it in. There was some blueing on the floater plate...can't imagine why...ha ha...but we expected that. Other than that the discs and flywheel showed no signs of wear. We are sending it back to South Bend for them to examine as well. So for the time being back to stock for me....BUMMER! We wanted to make sure everyone else on the list will get their orders first before taking one more out of SBC supply. Oh well, gives my truck and tires a break from all the hard driving I have been doing lately.
When got back in my truck with the factory POS back in I almost put my foot through the floor as forgot how truely weak the factory pressure plate is.
I must say this flywheel/clutch is absolutely excellent and really is quite capable as a daily driver and having the benifit to hold the HP when you CRANK it up!
Deadeye and I have put a lot of R&D time into this to make sure you all get a SOLID product delivered to you!
Say bye bye to hard pedal and slipping! HOPE YOU ENJOY YOURS WHEN YOU GET EM' IN!!

Great,I'll sure be glad to get mine. Then you and John can install it :D .

Great,I'll sure be glad to get mine. Then you and John can install it :D .


Ok, so now been quite a while since we did. How many miles?

BTW, smoked any rice burners? ):h

Well, I've got dual disk in now for almost over 2 weeks now, I think maybe even 3, and she's holding strong. I've put on nearly 2000km's now and so far I'm a happy customer. There's a few little beefs that people need to be aware of though. Nothing big in my opinion, but just to be aware of.

First, at idle mine rattles a little louder than I would normally be comfortable with, I talked with Deadeye and he's reasured me that it's normal. I can also just put on the high idle and the rattle is almost gone.

Second, because of the rattle, there is a little, now.... just a little vibration in the cab from it, when looking under the truck, the tranny hardly moves at all. Again, high idle takes care of this nicely.

Third, the clutch is quite "grabby". It engages right off the floor and isn't as smooth as our stock ones were. I attribute that to this clutch being that much stronger and wanting to hold better. To solve this is to either give her a little juice off the line and release the clutch a little faster than you normally would have, or start out in first. The clutch is only this grabby from a COMPLETE stop. If I'm rolling even a little, the grabbiness is a non-issue.

So again, very pleased with my new clutch, but just some quirks you gotta get used to. I run my juice now on 5/5 and yet to have a problem. Clutch pedal is barely noticibly harder than stock, maybe 5% - 10% on mine, and the greatest part, is the pedal hardness is consistant, I don't have to worry about the thing sticking to the floor and all that other crap I lived with before. Great product, I got great service, and highly recomended!!!

for the response, Trevor. Any others ?

Mines been in for 3 weeks or so, maybe a month. Ratlle is there, but is a non issue with me. Not as loud as a louisville with a 3406/8LL, so im cool. It engages about halfway for me, kind of worried me about longevity between overhauls of the clutch. Is slightly grabby but nothing annoying to me, it has smoothed out a lot since it was put in. Not much stiffer than stock which is good for plowing snow. Holds what ever i toss at it too. Overall im quite pleased with it, and would purchase another.

Thanks, Ben!!

BTW, I just spoke with Jay in MN who is a SD friend and the first SMF/DDC customer and his comments were identical to Trevor and Ben. FYI he is not a 'puter guy so not a forum member.