To All the Tranny Guru's:


Please educate the weak minded (me) about the benefits of installing beefier clutch packs. I'm on the verge of tranny upgrades....but like so many others.....which upgrades are worth it for me? I'm running the 110 hp Stealth and I have a PS 2000. I've never run both....but I limped 5th a month ago(just running down the freeway on 110 hp) and she's shifting a little funny. So I've got a guy to do upgrades but I need to know which. I'm convinced the triple disk converter is a must. TransGo....is good stuff but does a guy need Kolene steels and the new clutch packs?


Any help would be greatly appreciated.....please forgive those of us trying to learn this stuffhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif





WayneEdited by: Sandman

Adding clutches add additional surface holding area ..... Works in conjuction with Transgo kit and added fluid pressure for clutch holding capacity.....

Depending on how far you want to go in HP and Torque and how you'd like to use this power should determine your course of transmission level build ....

Regardless which level you choose a new torque converter should be installed for additional holding power with a lower then stock stall should be included ....

Remember in Over Drive ,where most are having the problem holding ,and the Converter is locked ,the tranny has additional holding power via fluid pressure and possible added surface holding capacity ,what becomes the WEAK LINK once the clutches are applied ....??
Again deciding which converter is your chose ... The old addage some is good more is better,and get the TCC flow valve .....
Some say you lose more HP with the triple disk,I say well then make more HP !!!!

Consider Suncoast Converters for your build up,I did .....

Mac

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Mac,


Thanks for the advice. Yes, I have been looking at the Suncoast site. Just confused at how far to modify my tranny. I don't drag race it....well..http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big%20Smile.gif..maybe get into it a little when a "Hemi with loud exhaust" pulls along side and giggles at me(now he wishes "That thing got a Max). But mainly it's my daily driver and family trip vehicle....so do I really need that stage 5?? Or the triple disk and TransGo??


Thanks Again,


Wayne

Mac,


Thanks for the advice. Yes, I have been looking at the Suncoast site. Just confused at how far to modify my tranny. I don't drag race it....well..http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big%20Smile.gif..maybe get into it a little when a "Hemi with loud exhaust" pulls along side and giggles at me(now he wishes "That thing got a Max). But mainly it's my daily driver and family trip vehicle....so do I really need that stage 5?? Or the triple disk and TransGo??


Thanks Again,


Wayne

I would say no need for level five .....
My statement was more general then individualistic ....
You would fair well with the Transgo kit ,TCC Valve and a Suncoast single ....

Happy motoring .....

Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Mac,


What is the TCC Valve? Something to do with the torque converter? I don't see it listed on the SunCoast site.


With your "Level V"....have the shift qualities become really harsh? And have you slipped it since the upgrade?


Thanks for educating the un-educatablehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Wayne

The Torque Converter Flow Valve will keep the pump pressure at 170/190 depending on spring used with the valve ...


The transmission shifts near stock .... When the triple lock ,locks ,you are aware it is engaged ....


I haven't had any problems since my upgrade to level five ... Pulls and holds overdrive with out fail ...





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Mack


There may be a problem with premature pump wear with the Transgo valve, and there might also be an issue of too much weight on the front of the trans with triple lock converters. Aside from a pure race truck, i have never seen the need for triple loc. Has anyone heard of notching the billet cover with triple lock clutches in the converter?

There may be a problem with premature pump wear with the Transgo valve,


It seems like the ATS Co-Pilot is a good solution. Keep the pressure low/stock, monitor boost and when boost goes up the Co-Pilot appliess more pressure. Kinda the best of both worlds???

Guy


how does the copilot do this? It can't do it electronicaly.

Mike,


It looks like additional solenoids controlled by the Co-Pilot electronics apply the extra pressure when needed. What do you think?


From their web site...


The stock Allison transmission only receives approximately 86 PSI oil pressure to the clutch packs when in 5th gear. After the addition of the Co-Pilot™ transmission system, the transmission clutch packs receive approximately 230 PSI. By allowing the available line pressure to the clutch packs we have designed a system that increases the torque capacity of the Allison transmission by over 200 foot pounds of torque with the simple addition of our Co-Pilot™ transmission kit. When the ATS pump kit (part of the TripleLok™ upgrade kit) is installed in addition to the Co-Pilot™ the clutch pack pressures are around 290 PSI during high power conditions. This is a 170% hydraulic increase in torque capacity. This increased pressure is only in effect during high engine torque output, unlike other mechanical kits that do not use electronic controls. This removes the concern of excessive pressure on vital transmission parts such as delivery rings, drums, shafts etc. during normal operation. There were great concerns during development of this kit to ensure long transmission life along with great performance.





Guy

Guy


I am not familiar with ATS and their system. I do know someone that is and i will ask him. The only thing that i question is; a transmission that usually puts out a max of 250- 260 psi(fixed) suddenly has an increase in pressure by either a solenoid or some other modification. The pressure regulator spring in the Ally resembles a small garage door spring (pretty hefty) and the pressure is fixed. That means you have to do with what they gave you and the pressure does not increase with throttle opening like most transmissions. There are ways to move this pressure strategicaly to your benefit (like a Transgo shift kit or other mods) but it does not increase in this trans. I guess if you wanted to increase line pressure over stock in the Ally, it could be done, but not without a heavy price in longevety. I also don't know how you could raise maximum line pressure over stock, on demand. This is good Guy; i am glad you brought this up. We might all learn something here.


mike

Mack


There may be a problem with premature pump wear with the Transgo valve, and there might also be an issue of too much weight on the front of the trans with triple lock converters. Aside from a pure race truck, i have never seen the need for triple loc. Has anyone heard of notching the billet cover with triple lock clutches in the converter?








I have heard the Longevity "maybe" compromised but nothing has been proven conclusive yet .... As you've seen as myself the big gear driven pump and all associated parts are quite beefy .... I'll take my chances as no one can pinpoint a percentage of life ..... Even at 10% over a working life of 180,000 normal miles is only 18,000 miles ... So if the Level 1 guy has to rebuild replace at 182,000 he can't complain ... Granted the guy driving at 500 + RWHP and competing how long does he expect to go before tearing it down for some R&R ?? Guess we'll have to see, but like anything the more you use it the quicker it will wear out regardless ...


The weight of the converter is an interesting fact .... The difference in weight is not that great I thought ... Stock converter weighing in at 57 LBS I thought and Triple at 70 ish LBS....


I wonder how the Dual Mass guys get away with it seeing there fly wheel matches the weight of the triple disc converter at 70 lbs .... Makes us pretty well even matched with our flywheel and the balance of their hardware clutch and pressure plate to our flywheel ....


I agree most guys could probably get away with a single disk converter ....


All of this is new technology and unproven,we need street and competition time ,it's coming ....I myself I'm enjoying the ride and so are you I'm sure ...


Just remember ;


All this doesn't matter cause Dodge Ram Wins everytime !!!!


Well, so says my TV .... But my pavement beater says differently,that's a fact ...





Mac http://mail.wackywack.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gifEdited by: Mackin

You just havn't run against the right Dodge.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ouch.gif


BTW, relax I'm just kidding.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifEdited by: Big P

Mack


Talk to BIG DIPPER, he and i discussed new valve body and solenoid update to benefit high pressure pump wear. If you think 250psi at an idle in park all the time will get you 180K less 10%, you also believe in witches.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Sandman, I think the curent consenses is that the stock trany will hold around 100 extra horses. It sounds like you haven't beat it up. I am curious about how hard the 110 can be run. Did you have to pull over and cycle the ignition or the gears to reset it? A lot of people fill safe running in this HP range, any advice?http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big%20Smile.gif

Mack


Talk to BIG DIPPER, he and i discussed new valve body and solenoid update to benefit high pressure pump wear. If you think 250psi at an idle in park all the time will get you 180K less 10%, you also believe in witches.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif








I idle in P "p" is for park ....





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

I thought P was for power!http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gifEdited by: Big P

I thought P was for.....oh never mind.

No you're right. That's my truck's name.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif Believe me though, it's not under powered it's just a long story.

GPTimes2,


I was running on the freeway....about to merge with additional lanes and needed to get over to the far left lane. I had the cruise set @ 70 and happily motoring along when I spotted a hole for me to make my manuever. Stepped on the throttle and got to 80 mph when it went into limp mode. Nobody home!! Luckily my turn wasn't far so I coasted into my turn. The vehicle was stuck in 3rd gear....I think. The "SES" light stayed lit for 3-4 cycles of starting up and shutting down. Subsequently I've noticed a lot more "Flare" between shifts and occassionally some hunting for gears. I've got 40,000 miles on my rig and have tried to roll on to the throttle rather than mashing it to the floor. I've also lifted prior to the 4-5 shift....never WOT.


Don't let anyone fool you that the 110 hp box is kids stuff! It really makes the D-Max wake up. And this thing wants to run....100 mph...no problem...it feels like it wants to go more. I don't advise driving that fast....but it is so responsive to throttle inputs. I can't even imagine what driving one of the "Big Boys" trucks with the stacked boxes etc. is like.


My Transgo Kit is on its way...working on the TCC valve upgrade and need to decide whether to go single or triple disk torque converter. So as you can see.....my advice is like all the rest....don't be fooled to think you can crank up the power and run "Easy" because eventually you will need the tranny upgrade! You wanna play....you gotta payhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif.


Wayne

Wayne


That is the Gospel truth. Sometimes when i say things like you just did, maybe some guys are reluctant to believe me. I must admit it sounds better from a man in his Duramax on the street.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


mike