Well, if most don't allready know, you will now. On the way down to Indy back in June for Diesel Thunder my motor let go in Ohio. It took me a while to get pics of what the damage was, but here they finally are. Hopefully they will help with the development of the future dmaxs and how to keep them together with high hp applications.

More pics. As you can see the cracks follow right up into the cylinder walls

Ouch. That must have made a lot of disgusting sounds while that was happening.

Sorry for some of the fuzzy pics, must have been the triple triple coffee i had before taking the pics :D I forgot, i should have got a pic of the crank, or the 2 pieces of the crank for that matter, but if you've seen one you've seen them all. The true root of the problem is well defined in a couple of the pics.

Anyways, hopefully gm can help us out and get us high hp gearheads to compete against the open modded pulling trucks like Shieds, Haisleys, and the Mitchells, and keep our block together :o:

Ouch. That must have made a lot of disgusting sounds while that was happening.

Actually i didn't hear a thing, but then again with the windows down and blowing by my buddy at 120mph, there was alot of wind noise so we didn't know anything happened until the truck felt like it hit a speed limiter and of coarse the entrailing massive smoke from the truck to follow. The truck actually still started, but very rough as you could imagine.

I posted these pics, as i was asked to, so some of the Gm engineers could see and maybe learn from what happened. I'm hoping my bad luck and failure will help us all out in the long run, as i'm not ready to lay down and be happy with where i'm at without being 700+ on #2 :ro)

Thanks for the pics J......I'm assuming you didn't get any chunks in the turbo when it went kaboo, or was that hurt too?

I can only imagine how many times this thread will be linked over at the TDR :rolleyes:

Those pics hurt me. :(

I have a quick question. Does anyone know where the cut off point in power is to be "safe"?

Thanks for the pics J......I'm assuming you didn't get any chunks in the turbo when it went kaboo, or was that hurt too?

I can only imagine how many times this thread will be linked over at the TDR :rolleyes:

No chunks went through the turbo thank god.

Thats allright. I'd like to see a cummins stay together with 650+ hp on #2 as a daily driver and haul my enclosed trailer with bobcat and material and plow snow, everyday of the week, full jam power............and believe me, if anyone knows me, i drive it like i stole it, but i still respected my egts and maintenance............not gonna have too many cummins owners saying that, not unless there name is pinocchio :D

Wow! Up until now I've always assumed the bottom ends of the DMax were practically "bullet proof!" Looks like you really reached a design limit by the way the crank main webs were cracked and ripped off! You're estimating 675 Hp? Were you spraying N2O?

Those pics hurt me. :(

I have a quick question. Does anyone know where the cut off point in power is to be "safe"?

All depends on daily driving hp or just competition hp. Imho, daily driving hp would be 500ish..........competition, if your serious it don't matter, i'm going for broke wether it blows or not, definetely not going to leave any cards on the table. The guys spraying, i think will have more longevity out of there motor vs. a guy trying to do it on #2 due to cylinder pressures, but again thats just my opinion. I would be really interested in seeing the difference in cylinder pressures between the big single vs the twins.

I have herd about 600hp with stock rods, more than that and your flirting with disaster.

What I wonder about is this....Did the crank break first or did the main webbing fail causing the crank to break..

Wow! Up until now I've always assumed the bottom ends of the DMax were practically "bullet proof!" Looks like you really reached a design limit by the way the crank main webs were cracked and ripped off! You're estimating 675 Hp? Were you spraying N2O?

I have not run nos since last year and that was only 3 times at the track and a couple of times on the dyno. Those numbers in my sig. are nos numbers, and i should take them off. Edit(took them off to save confusion)

I have run on the dyno with the current sig. but could not build boost(only 30lbs), leaving 20 lbs on the table, so 650+ is a rough guess, by a very smart intelligent few that i actually know :D I can tell you it was far beyond 600hp by the ole arse meter.

What I wonder about is this....Did the crank break first or did the main webbing fail causing the crank to break..

There are several opinions, and they most all make sense to me, but i'm not that knowledgeable as some in this department :p:

If i had to venture a guess, the webbing broke first, resulting in the crank failing.

Just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to post the carnage pics. It seems like some brush things under the rug for whatever reason, and it gives everyone a false sense of security.

Do you plan on doing any mods to the block (girdle) before you put the new motor in the truck?

that is CRAZY!!... I've seen small blocks blown, but never a Duramax block..wow

my wallet feels for ya!

Just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to post the carnage pics. It seems like some brush things under the rug for whatever reason, and it gives everyone a false sense of security.

Do you plan on doing any mods to the block (girdle) before you put the new motor in the truck?

We already put a used 04(low mileage) motor back in, but we left out the 40 over injectors, studs and modded cp3. Not saying that they caused the failure, but time did not permit us to put all those parts into the new motor. They will be going back on in the off season(only 2 pulls left) , but there will be many changes, and hopefully something done to strengthen the block as well.

so how many miles did it last with the big HP numbers on #2.

so how many miles did it last with the big HP numbers on #2.

I can't remember exactly what the mileage was when Eric put the bigger charger on, but i would guess i put on 10-15,000 miles with the bigger hp on #2 driving it everyday.

Has Eric Seen it?

Or, is he doing the transplant?

It looks like there was some twist in the webs, I don't think there's a girdle on the crank studs is there?

Well at least we know the rods aren't the weak point.

If you were doing 120 mph I would imagine that your foot was into it so you had a combination of high rpm's and high horsepower working on the bottom end.

Never seen a block with the main's ripped right out of the block like that.

Sorry for your misfortune, hope you can rebuild it, better, faster, stronger..... oh wait that's the six million dollar man. :)

Good Luck

.

Some one needs to come out with an Aftermarket Short Block):h ATS maybe??? How many miles did the engine have total? I know other guys have hit the 700hp mark with drugs. This doesn’t mean it the max power a Stock Block can handle, just because one cracked...

Those pics hurt me. :(

I have a quick question. Does anyone know where the cut off point in power is to be "safe"?

The general concensus among most Cummins Enthusiasts is 500 RWHP.
After that point you go from 'moderate maintainance' to 'high maintainance'

FWIW

Some one needs to come out with an Aftermarket Short Block):h ATS maybe??? How many miles did the engine have total? I know other guys have hit the 700hp mark with drugs. This doesn’t mean it the max power a Stock Block can handle, just because one cracked...

The motor had 130,000kms(80,000miles) on it, with lots of hours(plowing snow). The motor was modded from about 40,000kms with an edge to start, then the madness started soon after.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not dissing the dmax at all, but the guys runnnng drugs to get above 700hp are not running with that power all day everyday.........your talking 12-11secs at a time or a dyno pull or a 15 sec sled pull and not running the cylinder pressures that Aurora can get you. More than likely if my truck was just used for competition it would still be running strong. In an everyday driving situation with that hp, i don't see the motor having much longevity, either that or drop the programming down to a reasonable level and don't drive it too hard(very hard to do if you've got that hp on tap).

I hope i'm wrong and welcome all to prove me wrong(i'm not paying for a new motor if it fails though:D ), as i want to see the dmax be able to handle bigger #2 hp than what i was at.

Now don't get me wrong, i don't blame anyone or any mod that was on my truck.............i was playing the hp game and got stung, thats the name of the game......"gonna play, gonna pay" This will not stop me from trying to go farther though. I have been wanting to post pics since this happened to let people know that when you are stepping up to this level this is what could happen, be prepared, i'm not one to sugar coat something........and to let some of the gm higher ups and ourselves to maybe learn and see what it takes to make it to the next level.

If gm wants my block they are welcome to have it and analyze it, if it helps any.

Eawe,
The pictures remind me of the first and last Censored -:t ord I owned.

I should have took the fatherly advice :badidea: :badidea: ,and bought a Chevrolet.:ro)

Live and lurn!

Did you replace the motor under warranty?

First lets get something straight... you cannot compare the light duty designed Duramax to THE MIGHTY CUMMINS med duty diesel :ro)

There... got that off my back :lol:

Seriously though, heartbeat... you really don't know. I blew a headgasket in my Dmax with a 90hp non attitude Juice and lp. I'm told more often than not that was a quirk. Very well could have been a bad spot anywhere in your motor that was asking for stress. No two parts/materials are identical, including the heat treatments, casting control and machine work. One lets go and the resulting forces do the rest. I truly am sorry for your loss... to your wallet. That sucks. I also take no joy in this post.


I do believe the Cummins far outlives the Dmax with power put to the stock rotating assy. No doubts. Some of you Dmax guys refuse to believe a 5.9 inline six cylinder has that kind of staying power. Show me a broken stock Cummins bottom end under 800 hp. Hell even over 800.

Thanks for the pics. Like they say, no matter what brand, willing to play, you must be willing to pay...... right MAC? :muahaha:

Hey, on edit, what about the beefed up 2006 Dmax block? Use one of those if possible?

I'd rather walk than drive a med. duty cummins

there... got that off my back

thanks for the pics, we shouldn't get down on the Dmax just because of ONE block failure... I'm sure when the cummins was a newbie things had to break before the performance guys knew what to beef up, were just getting started... right hoot?

Dan

There are typically more main bearings in a inline motor than a V style motor.
Duramax=5 that's 5/8 of a bearing/cylinder
Cummins=7 that's 1.17 bearings/cylinder

An inline engine will always have a much stronger bottom end. Look at some of the old inline 6 gas engines, from Chevy, Ford, and Dodge. It took He!! and then some to get one of them to grenade.

Didn't I see that the LBZ has some block upgrades? Maybe GM has come across this before?

First lets get something straight... you cannot compare the light duty designed Duramax to THE MIGHTY CUMMINS med duty diesel :ro)



Oh Right... Forgot about that. Cummins' reputation was built on their wet sleeve engines.

The dry sleeve B series is a good engine too. Still not a C series by any means):h

good pics and that damage is exactly as I was told it would be, GM has run across this before and it is why the LBZ is much stronger. for those of you who still have not seen any of my other posts concerning the lb7 block this is not a freak occurance nor is heartbeat the only one to experiance it, this is what we have to look forward to if the bottom end is not beefed up or you do not swap to a LBZ block, this sort of thing has been repeated in testing by the general without bending any rods. My opinion on the rods is too much pain and timing and or a injector failure that cause the engine to hydrolock. the block is the weak link when cylinder pressure is exceeded for too long.

good pics and that damage is exactly as I was told it would be, GM has run across this before and it is why the LBZ is much stronger. for those of you who still have not seen any of my other posts concerning the lb7 block this is not a freak occurance nor is heartbeat the only one to experiance it, this is what we have to look forward to if the bottom end is not beefed up or you do not swap to a LBZ block, this sort of thing has been repeated in testing by the general without bending any rods. My opinion on the rods is too much pain and timing and or a injector failure that cause the engine to hydrolock. the block is the weak link when cylinder pressure is exceeded for too long.

Sorry it took so long for the pics, just been too busy:blahblah: . Hope the pics work for the higher ups, let me know if i can help otherwise.

:stick_out This link should put to rest any doubts about the "indestructable" cummins. http://www.stamey.info/Truck/Cummins53BlockFAQ.htm Hoot I will let you know about a broken block as soon as a common rail cummins makes over 800 hp.:stick_out

:rolleyes: Oh, cummins is the best.....................ask any trucker that has had one for a while:rolleyes: As a matter of fact, I believe Nowake has had problems out of his cummins.

:stick_out This link should put to rest any doubts about the "indestructable" cummins. http://www.stamey.info/Truck/Cummins53BlockFAQ.htm Hoot I will let you know about a broken block as soon as a common rail cummins makes over 800 hp.:stick_out

Hoot will tell you that it's a 53 block is a fluke and isn't a norm.Doesn't pertain. But the common rail comment is funny! :D

Looks to me like it pushed the crank right out the bottom. :eek:

IMHO, if you re-install a main cap and find the spot where the bolt ends, inside its threaded hole it will correspond with where the cracks are.

This is something the cross bolt design is supposed to cure. :confused:

Main studs might help by grabbing more surface area and being deeper in the hole. But ultimately, I think BIG D is right. (Ouch that hurt) :D We need beefier main webs and a better cross bolt design.

All the rods are straight?

All the rods are straight?

Yes they are.

Can a LB7 block be swaped with an LBZ???
I have my fingers crossed for you heartbeatcanada.

Denial...

I give heartbeat a huge attaboy for posting this.
bigd, I don't remember you posting all this "known" info on the weak block before.

My point.... just like always.... be truthful, don't kid yourself, don't be like the Ford boys and live blind. When a problem shows up share it with everybody. There is nothing to be gained by keeping known issues hush in your little circles behind the scenes.

The injectors, rods and the block. Good news is the people running under 600 hp, which is almost everybody, will never have to worry about the rods/block. But injectors will fail.

nick04duramax, Mac the Cummins 53 block is no secret. Bad casting for a couple of years. Not a fluke at all but it's also a mistake that Cummins corrected. Mistake and inherent design are two different things.

All the hype about inline six diesels is real. In the end longevity rests on strong solid design. That's what keeps bearings lasting longer. Less stress and flexing on the rotating components during it's 350,000 mile certified life before major repair. The Dmax is certified for 200,000. We are talking 150,000 miles difference here. How can this be? It's the difference between stout and mediocre. GM has ALWAYS been mediocre with diesels.

Is there an 800 hp common rail Cummins? Not sure if there is yet but there certainly are countless Cummins out there doing 800 on stock blocks. You guys either are in denial are simply don't know what you're talking about.

Pound me into the ground but you won't take away the facts.

And even in the end if the Dmax blows the Cummins away as it has in some venues this year, and when they beef it up, it still doesn't do much for everyday drivers that are looking for long term reliability. Do I have long term reliability. Looking at track records, I know I made the right choice.

I don't look at heartbeats engine grenading necessarily as a bad thing for the people that unload their trucks at 100,000 to 150,000 miles. Truth comes out GM knew about it and now we know why they beefed up the LBZ. Must have been a threshold that the new power level was getting close to. GM did the right thing by redesigning it before failures started showing up in the field. Now that is promising for sure.

BIC lighter. Great motor for fun the first 100,000 miles. After that hold onto your wallet. All to often I see guys that take the Cummins to work and the Dmax to dinner. Guys that own both prefer the Dodge when it comes to pulling.

I really don't understand why everyone makes a big deal about engines lasting a million miles. Wonder what percentage of owners out there keep there truck for 300,000 miles? Probably less than 1%. The way I see it you got two choices-buy a duramax powered GM and have the motor go away around 300,000+/- or buy a Cummins powerered Dodge and watch the truck fall apart by 300,000(after a couple trannies):h )? Really doesn't make any difference. Don't play the injector card either, because they might as well be identical.

I really don't understand why everyone makes a big deal about engines lasting a million miles. Wonder what percentage of owners out there keep there truck for 300,000 miles? Probably less than 1%. The way I see it you got two choices-buy a duramax powered GM and have the motor go away around 300,000+/- or buy a Cummins powerered Dodge and watch the truck fall apart by 300,000(after a couple trannies):h )? Really doesn't make any difference. Don't play the injector card either, because they might as well be identical.

It's not about a million miles. It's about performance, reliability, ease of service and piece of mind. Tranny problems? Pretty much gone in the new Dodges. That card falls away. Cummins only has six injectors and they are way easier to service. The turbo is wide open on the side of the motor. The new Dmax is a clusterF

Hoot I know you once owned a dmax but times have passed and now you prefer a dodge no big deal, why are you wasting your time on the diesel place? If I owned a dodge I would be reading up on the dodge site I wouldnt want to be missing a thing on what I owned. Maybe you just like to stir the sh!t or your regretting your new purchase I don't know but I was just wondering.

Anyways go ahead and:nutkick: me now but I was just asking.

Hoot,

I have posted about the block a couple times in existing threads not one that I started for this particular reason sorry you were not able to find the posts and start your bashing earlier. The problem is not going to effect those who are running just programs or no programs at all so you will still achieve lots of miles with your dmax, all this is for the big power trucks, and those of us who want 600 or more have an issue to address or you can not run it hard all the time, those who are content whooping common rail cummins ass with just a box can continue to do so. Sorry you point of view seems to be a little biased and I honestly think you have been itching for us to have a problem, now you can rest easy and sleep well at night...till next year when even further mods will be done and dmaxs will continue to gain attention across the country.

The LBZ block should be a direct swap minus some water pump changes that will still allow a swap, we may have to use a 06 water pump though. I believe the pump is designed to interchange from 06 LBZ back to the older blocks but the older pumps will not work on the new blocks. Also the bottom end of the lb7 block can be beefed up with some relativly easy mods once the engine is pulled down + someone can design a cradle to further beef it up and I know of at least one vendor who is hard at work at doing this and expect results this winter.

Last but not least I knew about the block problem before I had the charger, cp3 and injectors installed but did it anyways, yes it makes me nervous but I believe I am under the cylinder pressure limit by a little bit as I have the larger ATS housing and mild injects, this winter my motor is getting tore down and I will be getting crazy with fuel and I will not be worried any more.

No I was not itching for this. I want all of the diesels to be great engines. For the most part GM has succeeded. bigd I wasn't sure if you had talked about this before and no way am I asking you to prove it. I remember posting way back when we first got our trucks saying we couldn't wait till people with the resources would find out the mechanical limits of this motor. I think we can safely say that has been done.

rcr1978,

I get that question once in a while. I do spend time on Dodge sites. I spend time on here to harrass you guys and to remind you there is life after Dmax :)

Would be aweful boring if this place was like thedieselstopped.com where they pat each other on the back all day long and ban people who don't agree with them how great Fords are.

Jeremy,

I feel for you. There were a few of us at Eric's shop yesterday and checked out the pics. After viewing the pics, we all decided to strip down a "core" motor Eric has and do some brainstorming over the causes of your misfortune and possible improvements.
It looks like the mains broke right where the bolts stop in the block. Unfortunately, you can't use longer bolts or studs due to the fact the main oil passages run through every main web between the crank and the cam, and these oil passages tie right in to the main bolt holes. Another thing that we surmised from the pics is we figured that the crank flexing under load probably caused the mains to break, not the other way around. It was interesting to note that from the pics, #1 and #5 weren't hurt. A girdle would probably have helped a lot to take the stress off the caps.

Just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to post the carnage pics. It seems like some brush things under the rug for whatever reason, and it gives everyone a false sense of security.

Do you plan on doing any mods to the block (girdle) before you put the new motor in the truck?

Has Eric Seen it?

Or, is he doing the transplant?

It looks like there was some twist in the webs, I don't think there's a girdle on the crank studs is there?

There are 4 bolts that hold each cap in. No studs.

Last night, while we tore down the "core" motor, there was an impromptu "skunk works" meeting at Eric's shop. The goal was finally decided to be "1000HP in a streetable, reliable, stronger package". Quite a few ideas for improving the DMax were tossed about, and preliminary work has started on future improvements in many areas of the Dmax, dealing with both longevity and performance. Eric, along with a few other very smart local members, are putting the "pedal to the metal" on some very cool items! Also, in the last 2 weeks, Eric has been in negotiations with a few aftermarket manufacturers for production of some other DMax goodies.
I was sworn to secrecy (where have we heard THAT before?) on some interesting ideas that hopefully will be coming down the pike from Merchant Automotive Crew in the near future.

First lets get something straight... you cannot compare the light duty designed Duramax to THE MIGHTY CUMMINS med duty diesel :ro)

There... got that off my back :lol:

Seriously though, heartbeat... you really don't know. I blew head gasketet in my Dmax with a 90hp non attitude Juice and lp. I'm told more often than not that was a quirk. Very well could have been a bad spot anywhere in your motor that was asking for stress. No two parts/materials are identical, including the heat treatments, casting control and machine work. One lets go and the resulting forces do the rest. I truly am sorry for your loss... to your wallet. That sucks. I also take no joy in this post.


I do believe the Cummins far outlives the Dmax with power put to the stock rotating assy. No doubts. Some of you Dmax guys refuse to believe a 5.9 inline six cylinder has that kind of staying power. Show me a broken stock Cummins bottom end under 800 hp. Hell even over 800.

Thanks for the pics. Like they say, no matter what brand, willing to play, you must be willing to pay...... right MAC? :muahaha:

Hey, on edit, what about the beefed up 2006 Dmax block? Use one of those if possible?

Can a LB7 block be swaped with an LBZ???
I have my fingers crossed for you heartbeatcanada.

First off.....

Hoot, why do you have to always turn a DMax problem into a "Cummins is better" rant? Even if just kidding, it is getting old. So knock it off already. Everyone knows your story. You're a smart man, so stop with the B.S. and help out. The straight-6 design has been shown to be one for the most stout engine designs ever. That much is fact. I drive many 292 Chevys that have well over 250,000 miles (and a couple with over 400,000) on them at UPS, and most still run strong. So, goodie for Cummins....
What happened to Jeremy, while unfortunate, is inevitable as the HP envelope is being pushed farther and farther out.


Back on topic,

As for the LB7/LLY/LBZ swap.....Eric has also found some interesting info on the new block that, when he's ready, he will detail. He and BigD have been working this angle for a while.
Eric had found this info out a few weeks ago. Now he's just waiting on a test subject....

Jeremy,

First off.....

Hoot, why do you have to always turn a DMax problem into a "Cummins is better" rant? Even if just kidding, it is getting old. So knock it off. You're a smart man, so stop with the B.S. and help out.
What happened to Jeremy, while unfortunate, is inevitable as the HP envelope is being pushed farther and farther out.
BTW, the straight-6 design has been shown to be one for the most stout engine designs ever. That much is fact. I drive many 292 Chevys that have well over 250,000 miles on them at UPS, and most still run strong.

Back on topic,

As for the LB7/LLY/LBZ swap.....Eric has also found some interesting info on the new block that, when he's ready, he will detail. He and BigD have been working this angle for a while.
Eric had found this info out a few weeks ago. Now he's just waiting on a test subject....

Yea sorry. I thought that's what competition does. I thought that's why you take them to the limits , to see if "mines better than yours". I'll back off.

As far as helping out.. don't know what I can do there. A bunch of guys standing around looking at a broken block? Knowing where the actual weakness is isn't necessarily something that can be done with observation alone. They use pretty sophisticated stress analysis software to design engines today. You pretty much are going to be using lessons learned from experienced engine builders. Someone who has seen this type of failure will have a better feel for what it will take to add strength in the right areas. You don't want to "shoot from the hip". Too expensive. I think you are going down the right path by bringing in the most experienced people you can find.

No doubt some type of girdle support. I believe the International 6.0 POS uses one stock.

Looks like a real challenge though making something fit and work. Once you tighten up the bottom, you know the rods will take more of a beating.

This is just one of a few mighty Cummins that I heard about or saw CUMAPART this season. At least the bottom end stayed together.

I still have faith in my Duramax engine. After 107K miles, including 125+ hooks sledpulling and about 150 1/4 mile passes at the dragstrip it's still going strong on the factory internals including headgaskets and injectors. Maybe I'm not making enough power to break it yet or maybe GM put an LBZ block in mine back in '02.

Yea sorry. I thought that's what competition does. I thought that's why you take them to the limits , to see if "mines better than yours". I'll back off.

No doubt some type of girdle support. I believe the International 6.0 POS uses one stock.

Looks like a real challenge though making something fit and work. Once you tighten up the bottom, you know the rods will take more of a beating.

Thanks Hoot. Just wait for news from the Merchant Marines out of Holland, MI.....

Sheesh, and I was worried about my trans slipping....

Hoot will tell you that it's a 53 block is a fluke and isn't a norm.Doesn't pertain. But the common rail comment is funny! :D

Thats funny I was totaly thinking of the old 53 block Crack problem... I have seen an untold number of them... I even owned one.:rolleyes: One Cracked Block means nothing....... And thats Exactly what it means NOTHING>>> There are lots of people that have toasted Allys but that also meens nothing. If one guys toasted an ATS Allison at 500 hp and that meen they are all only good for 500hp... I think not. Sorry to Rant but this one broke and they are all bad Adittude gets me every time

Seriously though, heartbeat... you really don't know. I blew a headgasket in my Dmax with a 90hp non attitude Juice and lp. I'm told more often than not that was a quirk. Very well could have been a bad spot anywhere in your motor that was asking for stress.

Not bad mouthing anyone or any motor/vehicle, but what about the propane you were running on yours Hoot?

Just thought I'd stur the pot a little more!:lol:

Hey Hoot how much did TDR pay you to convert... J/K Can't we all just get along....

Not bad mouthing anyone or any motor/vehicle, but what about the propane you were running on yours Hoot?

Just thought I'd stur the pot a little more!:lol:


Read.... lp in the sentance you quoted :)

We get along just fine. Nothing wrong with questioning anything. If your feelings get hurt I can't help you.

Looking for folks with deep pockets who wanna bad arse motor.....

1 out of 2 ain't bad. No deep pockets here. :(

I’m sorry Heartbeat’s engine hurled. If I had to absorb a shot to my wallet like that I’d still be curled up under my electric blanket sucking my thumb. It’s funny how such news inevitably prompts the D’max/Cummins debate. I’m not sure one has anything to do with the other. While it is fun to extrapolate from individual incidents to broad generalities what we really know is that this highly stressed engine failed for reasons that have still not been firmly identified. If GM will accept the block for analysis, and, more importantly, will tell anyone what it finds we can gain something useful from the tragedy. To it’s credit, though, it appears the General is paying attention to what enthusiasts are doing since it is beefing up the blocks to accept even more abuse. What any of this has to do with whether a D’max in normal use will last 200k, 350k, or a million miles is beyond me. The engines haven’t been around long enough to know. Tomac’s experience is encouraging, and probably more relevant than Heartbeat’s, that long life and hard use are not incompatible. I say that not just because the fact that one is still running and the other isn’t favors my argument, but because overall engine failures, especially catastrophic ones, are rare and reliability isn’t. Has anyone run a stock or mildly modded D’max to the point that it actually needs an overhaul yet?

TC

BTW Hootie, I am unaware of any 'STOCK BOTTOM END' 800 RWHP Cummins Engines.

Especially in a DDriver. Most have been reinforced with better fasteners at bare minumum! Even at that, any engine highly stressed will grenade eventually. Top Fuel, Rallye, F1 or even a Diesel.

Let's not even go to EGT failures.... we know a DMX can take higher temps for longer than a CTD. Unless of course you want to push your CTD to 1800F.. C'mon... do it... It's typically #6 that 'sticks' to the wall.....Don't take my word for it. Hoss stuck his going to Diesel Thunder.

Looking for folks with deep pockets who wanna bad arse motor.....

:devilfing How deep do the pockets have to be :cool: I'll give ya a hollar when i have time to chat..........nothing important, just looking for that 1000hp dmax is all :driver:

I think there will be some serious builds going on this winter, and next year we will all find the next weakest link.....for my marriage sake, i hope its not me again ):h

Looking for folks with deep pockets who wanna bad arse motor.....

I have six bucks. How deep does that get me?


):h

Looking for folks with deep pockets who wanna bad arse motor.....

I want a bad arse motor :ro) :exactly:




And I even have deep pocket's



But unfortunately I was born with short arm's :rippedhan :damnit1: :lol:

DD

.

I’m sorry Heartbeat’s engine hurled. If I had to absorb a shot to my wallet like that I’d still be curled up under my electric blanket sucking my thumb. It’s funny how such news inevitably prompts the D’max/Cummins debate. I’m not sure one has anything to do with the other. While it is fun to extrapolate from individual incidents to broad generalities what we really know is that this highly stressed engine failed for reasons that have still not been firmly identified. If GM will accept the block for analysis, and, more importantly, will tell anyone what it finds we can gain something useful from the tragedy. To it’s credit, though, it appears the General is paying attention to what enthusiasts are doing since it is beefing up the blocks to accept even more abuse. What any of this has to do with whether a D’max in normal use will last 200k, 350k, or a million miles is beyond me. The engines haven’t been around long enough to know. Tomac’s experience is encouraging, and probably more relevant than Heartbeat’s, that long life and hard use are not incompatible. I say that not just because the fact that one is still running and the other isn’t favors my argument, but because overall engine failures, especially catastrophic ones, are rare and reliability isn’t. Has anyone run a stock or mildly modded D’max to the point that it actually needs an overhaul yet?

TC




YA,

What he said

.

BTW Hootie, I am unaware of any 'STOCK BOTTOM END' 800 RWHP Cummins Engines.



Than you are UNAWARE.

Than you are UNAWARE.

Not by a long shot.
Nice try though!

I have six bucks. How deep does that get me?


):h

That'll get you the bad-arse motor AC-Delco OEM air filter element!:D

I have six bucks. How deep does that get me?


):h

That gets Eric to open the hood ):h ):h and maybe crack a cold one :drinking:

That gets Eric to open the hood ):h ):h and maybe crack a cold one :drinking:

That gets you IN THE SHOP! You have to supply the beer, too.

Than you are UNAWARE.

OH Great Hoot, we pray of thee, reveal to us mortals Your truth.

Heartbeat, sorry to hear of your loss!

I have been wondering when the envelope was getting pushed too far and I think you may have found it. Like you have said earlier, it WAS a B.A. daily driver! Good luck with the new stuff.

Ben

dont worry bigd, i seen your posts and you have told me almost every time i talked to you(phone or in person), how bad the stock block is. i paid attention to ya! on another note, i find it interesting that gm is going to sites like this to find out whats really up with these motors. thumbs up, way up!

OH Great Hoot, we pray of thee, reveal to us mortals Your truth.


I'm gettin tired of having to prove every dam thing I say. I do the best I can not to say something that I get called on and can't back up.

1998 2500 Quad Cab May Madness Las Vegas 2004
Jim Fulmer, Oklahoma City, OK
Twin turbos 80 psi 804hp

Scott Bentz Cummins Dragster 950 hp

Both Engines, stock internals

Want more I'll find them.

I'm getting tired of reading every damn thing you say. ;) ):h

Come on, like you didn't know it was coming. ):h

I have had three motors go on me. Two with no2 and the last one was a brand new motor that I put about 15000 miles. The last motor never had no2 and was was driven with the edge on level 5 aurora 5000 ats head studs. I am going back to stock until I find a way to get a built motor.

I'm gettin tired of having to prove every dam thing I say. I do the best I can not to say something that I get called on and can't back up.

1998 2500 Quad Cab May Madness Las Vegas 2004
Jim Fulmer, Oklahoma City, OK
Twin turbos 80 psi 804hp

Scott Bentz Cummins Dragster 950 hp

Both Engines, stock internals

Want more I'll find them.

I'm gonna have to say that the dragster isn't gonna pull my enclosed everyday to the job site :p:

I have no doubt its not obtainable, but to use it everyday like the trucks were originally bought to do, i don't think anyone of the big 3 can brag about that. Under just competition trucks, yes i would say that the cummins can handle more..........for now ;)

I have had three motors go on me. Two with no2 and the last one was a brand new motor that I put about 15000 miles. The last motor never had no2 and was was driven with the edge on level 5 aurora 5000 ats head studs. I am going back to stock until I find a way to get a built motor.

What failed?????

I'm getting tired of reading every damn thing you say. ;) ):h

That, right there, was the funniest thing I read today, by far :D

I'm gettin tired of having to prove every dam thing I say. I do the best I can not to say something that I get called on and can't back up.

1998 2500 Quad Cab May Madness Las Vegas 2004
Jim Fulmer, Oklahoma City, OK
Twin turbos 80 psi 804hp

Scott Bentz Cummins Dragster 950 hp

Both Engines, stock internals

Want more I'll find them.

IIRC Jim has ARP'd his borrom end.
Jetpilot (886) I do not know.

If you ever get a chance to hang around Jim, he's damned hilarious!:ro)

:rolleyes: Oh, cummins is the best.....................ask any trucker that has had one for a while:rolleyes: As a matter of fact, I believe Nowake has had problems out of his cummins.

All the truckers I asked said stay the hell away from a cummins. They said get a cat, or a detroit series 60. Now we have 2 trucks with 425hp cats and damn are they sweet.

I did drive a cummins in one truck.. Rpm limited to 1600 rpm, never made any torque and sounded really clattery like it would fly apart... Ran away from that one.


Sorry about the motor Jeremy, but sounds like bigger and better things will come from it...

All the truckers I asked said stay the hell away from a cummins. They said get a cat, or a detroit series 60. Now we have 2 trucks with 425hp cats and damn are they sweet.

I did drive a cummins in one truck.. Rpm limited to 1600 rpm, never made any torque and sounded really clattery like it would fly apart... Ran away from that one.


Sorry about the motor Jeremy, but sounds like bigger and better things will come from it...
Thank you nar. Finally, someone agrees.

2 words about that broken motor... JB weld

and as far as the cummins goes ....WHAT??? I CANT HEAR YOU! DID YOU SAY SOMETHING?? KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK

I was at a campground on California’s North Coast awhile back. The campground hosts and I were talking about various things and I complimented their beautiful motorhome. I asked if it had a Cummins in it. The wife looked at me like I’d just let a big f@rt and said, “oh, no, caterpiller.” Right there I realized that in the hierarchy of diesel royalty, the Cummins still ain’t the queen bee.

TC

GM has ALWAYS been mediocre with diesels.


I can't argue with that, so it's a good thing Isuzu builds one hell of a diesel engine (and has done so for many years).
:muahaha:

Well, that's not entirely true.

The EMD division has been fairly sucessful in the diesel world.

I would rephrase that to mean in the Light Truck arena...

More pics. As you can see the cracks follow right up into the cylinder walls


Cool pictures, thanks for sharing them w/ us:)

:blahblah: this vs. that :blahblah:

Doesn't this just suggest that the doggone compression ratio needs to be knocked down a few points for an LB7 under these boost conditions?

The heads didn't lift, eh!

Interesting pics.

Definately some carnage there. Hopefully it'll go back together and be better than it was before.

And I really have got to laugh at the rest of you guys. Reduced to bashing on us CTD guys. It's all good though. I can understand your position of not having the funds to purchase a quality CTD or the simple absence of intelligence required to see that a clanky, stinky, rattley 6 cylinder is always gonna be far supperior to a little "v8". -:t

Just kidding guys. I am sure we'll meet up on the street and I'll waive as I pull away from you with my trailer in tow while you try to figure out which box stack you need to take me on or how to get the turbo parts out of the innercooler, or if you remembered to bring a hammer with you to get the old girl moving. :D

Seriously, I have a lot of respect for the Duramax guys. You take a beating and remain proud of your trucks. Truth is, failures like this help everyone in the diesel community. It shows the limits of a part or parts and allows for them to be beefed up. This usually means that the next weak link is found, but that's the horsepower game.

And if you are worried about my trans slipping, don't. It doesn't. Maybe it's the mega injector, box stack, flux capacitor havin, smoke blowin, CTD overpowering it. I dunno.

And Juice, I think that Hoss's #6 piston was due to losing a cooling nozzle. But, he'll have to respond to that.


Dave

No chunks went through the turbo thank god.

Thats allright. I'd like to see a cummins stay together with 650+ hp on #2 as a daily driver and haul my enclosed trailer with bobcat and material and plow snow, everyday of the week, full jam power............and believe me, if anyone knows me, i drive it like i stole it, but i still respected my egts and maintenance............not gonna have too many cummins owners saying that, not unless there name is pinocchio :D

I thinks this is the what got the Cummins is better debate going.:muahaha: and even though I think the Dmax is a great diesel engine with a lot of potential it can't hold a candle to a 650+ hp on #2 12 valve Cummins that is used "as a daily driver and haul my encolsed trailer with bobcat and material and plow snow, everyday of the week, full jam power":lol: :blahblah: :grd:

Damn Dodge trolls! CTD -- Can't Tow D*ck. Gloat while you can, Goatboys.

The shortcummins (sp) of the Dmax are only now starting to appear -- 6 years after its introduction! This is mainly because the 750 RWHP plateau has been reached and surpassed. These problems will be addressed shortly, now that they have been identified. Merchant Automotive is working on it..... Just wait a bit, R and D always takes a bit of time.

Interesting pics.

Definately some carnage there. Hopefully it'll go back together and be better than it was before.

And I really have got to laugh at the rest of you guys. Reduced to bashing on us CTD guys. It's all good though. I can understand your position of not having the funds to purchase a quality CTD or the simple absence of intelligence required to see that a clanky, stinky, rattley 6 cylinder is always gonna be far supperior to a little "v8". -:t

Just kidding guys. I am sure we'll meet up on the street and I'll waive as I pull away from you with my trailer in tow while you try to figure out which box stack you need to take me on or how to get the turbo parts out of the innercooler, or if you remembered to bring a hammer with you to get the old girl moving. :D

Seriously, I have a lot of respect for the Duramax guys. You take a beating and remain proud of your trucks. Truth is, failures like this help everyone in the diesel community. It shows the limits of a part or parts and allows for them to be beefed up. This usually means that the next weak link is found, but that's the horsepower game.

And if you are worried about my trans slipping, don't. It doesn't. Maybe it's the mega injector, box stack, flux capacitor havin, smoke blowin, CTD overpowering it. I dunno.

And Juice, I think that Hoss's #6 piston was due to losing a cooling nozzle. But, he'll have to respond to that.


Dave

That was a major bummer:( I was following him back to P/U Camotanker when he lost his flexplate.... up the offramp and I could hear it clicking from in the cab. Byron, Myself and Hoss worked on the valvecover .... restarted the truck etc. to see if it was valve clearance... no such luck.

Poor Hoss. Terry limped the truck back home so she missed DT .
Oil tubes were plugged, i read that too. knowing how Hoss is about maintainance though makes me wonder why they clogged.

Finally the reinforcements have arrived ):h

Finally the reinforcements have arrived ):h

For the block?):h

For the record, I consider the Hoss's among my best of friends. Mark has helped me in the HP department and the repairs dept of my truck. Without his help, I would have come unglued more than once.

So if my original post was misconstrued as any kind of slam towards Hoss, I assure you it is not.

For the block?):h

For the record, I consider the Hoss's among my best of friends. Mark has helped me in the HP department and the repairs dept of my truck. Without his help, I would have come unglued more than once.

So if my original post was misconstrued as any kind of slam towards Hoss, I assure you it is not.

NO, he means for his Dodge-colored point of view. Hootie's outnumbered right now.

NO, he means for his Dodge-colored point of view. Hootie's outnumbered right now.

LOL... if a tree falls on his dodge...

The what will he get? A FORD?:lol:

LOL... if a tree falls on his dodge...

The what will he get? A FORD?:lol:
:funnypost

LOL... if a tree falls on his dodge...



Will any of us care? :D

Will any of us care? :D

Not a darn lick...

Will any of us care? :D

I will :(


We need trees..birds and squirrels love them ):h

I will :(


We need trees..birds and squirrels love them ):h
:funnypost

Thanks for making me spew my soda!:eek:

Will any of us care? :D

LMFAO!):h

Only if the tree gets injured!:lol:

It's not Hoot that is the instigator here.
Heartbeat started all the Bashing with this:


No chunks went through the turbo thank god.

Thats allright. I'd like to see a cummins stay together with 650+ hp on #2 as a daily driver and haul my enclosed trailer with bobcat and material and plow snow, everyday of the week, full jam power............and believe me, if anyone knows me, i drive it like i stole it, but i still respected my egts and maintenance............not gonna have too many cummins owners saying that, not unless there name is pinocchio :D

I respect the he!! out of you guys for doing what you are doing with these trucks. The Duramax has proven to be a much better engine that MANY people thought it would be. I'm sorry to hear of ANYONE's loss due to a major engine failure.

Sorry to burst your bubble....but there are MANY Cummins running around at that power level, doing just that.


OK just straight up turn it up till it blows.....Good luck. Cummins has that one. Haisleys and Scheids have that one ALL the way!

DD

I will :(


We need trees..birds and squirrels love them ):h


http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:iJesuKhMpCMJ:www.peacheykeene.com/300%2520funnybone.gifALERT! :lol:

Man, very sorry to hear about that. Hopefully the GM people will see that and be able to move forward with it in the future production of motors. Only time will tell.. Good luck..

Man, very sorry to hear about that. Hopefully the GM people will see that and be able to move forward with it in the future production of motors. Only time will tell.. Good luck..

There really is no reason an GM needs to re-design the Dmax to handle more than double it's rated power level for any reasonable length of time unless they want drag racing and sled pulling to succeed. That being said, there really is nothing wrong with the Dmax. It handles loads of power. It's no surprise that they break at those levels and it's no surprise the V8's are weaker. There is less material holding the crank to fit all those pistons so close together.

Redesign for longevity... that's different. GM doesn't comprehend longevity in diesels.

It's no surprise that they break at those levels and it's no surprise the V8's are weaker. There is less material holding the crank to fit all those pistons so close together.

I don't care if it's V8 or I6 or PU238, what Hoot's getting at is, the Cummins is vastly overbuilt for the stock HP they develop.

V-type engines can be built just as strong as any other design; all you have to do is look at NHRA. Sure, those are one-time-use engines, but I suppose all it takes is some decent engineering to de-tune a 5000 HP one-night-stand to a 500 HP married-for-life.

I think the Cummins guys are reaping the benefits of an overdesigned and overbuilt engine that delivers spectacular results. If Isuzu would have thrown maybe a hundred more pounds of iron in the right places, we might be enjoying the same benefits.

And to some extent I think we all need to sit back and chuckle that we're so pissed that our engines won't handle 3X what they're designed to do. It'd be like doubling the size of your willie and then somehow becoming all jacked that you can't go to 3X.

I figured a cheap shot was coming from somewhere. :rolleyes:

As it stands all engines will fail, no matter what.. Some last years running to perfection, others never run right from the start and this is with stock motors and motors that have been modded. As we add more HP the days are limited. Then it all depends on how you run it and take care of the motor that matter from that point. :exactly:

i still like the j.b. weld post lol

I thinks this is the what got the Cummins is better debate going.:muahaha: and even though I think the Dmax is a great diesel engine with a lot of potential it can't hold a candle to a 650+ hp on #2 12 valve Cummins that is used "as a daily driver and haul my encolsed trailer with bobcat and material and plow snow, everyday of the week, full jam power":lol: :blahblah: :grd:



Unbelievable, when our you going to get that tub into the tens?

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

when you consider cummins was designed for continous HP, the block runs for ever at 150-300Hp driving generator or pump blocks and internals will twist and shuffle, need meat not alot but the right type and location, light/medium duty comes nowhere near this design criteria. 2 different sides of the fence. design software is not accurate just like weather software, congress was scrapping hurricane hunter's 10 years ago but unfortuntaly Hugo and Andrew dispruved that. engine manufacturers design and build engines to suit specific market. if i remeber right, NASCAR engine builders Zyglo and UT test blocks and kick-out 10-25% due to flows that won't last. DMAX'd-292 chevy block, that might be it, seen 250 block break tho but think he ran 9's in 1/4 on methanol 30 yrs ago. offshore race boat engines run high strenght steel, when boat flys over wave crank will twist 1/4 turn and snap back when enters water, food for thought.

be truthful, don't kid yourself, don't be like the Ford boys and live blind.

OUCH!! That hurt:lol: :muahaha:

By the way hoot, 60K mi daily driven at 500hp(lowest setting) on my latest one;)

OUCH!! That hurt:lol: :muahaha:

By the way hoot, 60K mi daily driven at 500hp(lowest setting) on my latest one;)


Greg,

Impressive to say the least. Shame turbos can't do that ):h

Did you beef up anything down under or do you have parts waiting? When anybody claims an hp number driven all the time it's simply not true... Dukey always claimed how he was running 400 all the time. Those are peak dyno readings. How many people put the peddle to the metal from stoplight to stoplight every time they drive?

Aren't 7.3's known to puke rods after a certain power level?

but dont you see all the drag cars with I-6's in them.......not to mention the top fuel cars, and nascar. HMMMMM....wait they are running v-8's they must be dumb.

:lol:

but dont you see all the drag cars with I-6's in them.......not to mention the top fuel cars, and nascar. HMMMMM....wait they are running v-8's they must be dumb.

:lol:


Yep like GM's diesel philosophy. You are correct. V8's do well in drag racing.

Now go watch Super Modified Cummins pull. Come back and tell us that wasn't dam impressive for a 5.9 six cylinder.

Watch this Dodge woop a Dmax doing 10.77 1/4 mile

video (http://www.getdieselpower.com/my04dodge_files/videos/10secpass.wmv)

and what do you think would happen if the d-max had the mods available that the cummins does? Put the same amount of boost and fuel to the d-max and it will win hands down EVERY time. They are just crossing into the big mods within the last year and have gained enormous ground in a short time.

Yawn. Same ol' troll.....err I mean hoot.

Yawn. Same ol' troll.....err I mean hoot.

Aw come on... now I'm a troll.

I see... finally when the Dmax shows it's limits, sorry losers start calling me a troll.

Guess I should leave you guys in your little one brand world. ):h

No you are not a troll. You are a great asset to this site. You are never on a mission to belittle the duramax and praise the might Cummins. :rolleyes:

No you are not a troll. You are a great asset to this site. You are never on a mission to belittle the duramax and praise the might Cummins. :rolleyes:

No you got me all wrong.

Here is a box of tissues..
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:f-uJlC4abEoJ:www.chiaz.com/phsg/training/images/boy%2520w%2520box%2520of%2520tissues.jpg

I'll take an engine that "shows its limits" at 750+ RWHP anytime. It'll get fixed soon enough.

I'll take an engine that "shows its limits" at 750+ RWHP anytime. It'll get fixed soon enough.

I agree. I think that's a lot of power to work with.

BUT and this is a big BUT

Fixing it isn't necessarily a perfect science. It will be interesting what type of fixes are in order. Often they use longer cap bolts but someone said they will run into the oil galleys. I don't think it's gonna be so easy.

but dont you see all the drag cars with I-6's in them.......not to mention the top fuel cars, and nascar. HMMMMM....wait they are running v-8's they must be dumb.

:lol:

That makes tons of sense....Lets compair Gas, Alcohol and Methonal to Diesel.

Here's a thought....Why are Semi Trucks running I-6's? They must be dumb. You are talking Diesel Competition. Lets stay apples to apples.

Competition Diesels. This gentlemen has a MAJOR block issue at around 700hp. What's the reason? Not enough block material, or not the correct block material to hold that power. Cummins....Stock bottom end there are MANY that are at, near, or have exceeded that power level.

OK, Block Skirting, Great idea. Will that help your engines? I hope so. I know it helps ours.

People talk about getting as much boost and as much fuel as we have/can run. I honestly think that Electronically there is only so much you can do. Cummins, Duramax, Powerstroke....Caterpiller...it doesn't matter. The BIGIST power out there STILL is mechanical injection. Scott Bentz with the Diesel Dragster, the Scheids Drag car, the Big name pullers ALL are running Mechanical.... Why, not nessissarily cause it's simple. Because they can get ALL the fuel they want from that system.

But hey, that's just my .02$ I'm all for competition in the Diesel arena! IF it's Diesel, I'm a fan!

DD

That makes tons of sense....Lets compair Gas, Alcohol and Methonal to Diesel.

Here's a thought....Why are Semi Trucks running I-6's? They must be dumb. You are talking Diesel Competition. Lets stay apples to apples.

Competition Diesels. This gentlemen has a MAJOR block issue at around 700hp. What's the reason? Not enough block material, or not the correct block material to hold that power. Cummins....Stock bottom end there are MANY that are at, near, or have exceeded that power level.

OK, Block Skirting, Great idea. Will that help your engines? I hope so. I know it helps ours.

People talk about getting as much boost and as much fuel as we have/can run. I honestly think that Electronically there is only so much you can do. Cummins, Duramax, Powerstroke....Caterpiller...it doesn't matter. The BIGIST power out there STILL is mechanical injection. Scott Bentz with the Diesel Dragster, the Scheids Drag car, the Big name pullers ALL are running Mechanical.... Why, not nessissarily cause it's simple. Because they can get ALL the fuel they want from that system.

But hey, that's just my .02$ I'm all for competition in the Diesel arena! IF it's Diesel, I'm a fan!

DD

Mechanical is at it's limits for power production..... The new force to be reckoned with will be the common rail pump.

All it does is pump fuel. Timing is not static like the older mech diesel's are.

Stay tuned.

That makes tons of sense....Lets compair Gas, Alcohol and Methonal to Diesel.

Here's a thought....Why are Semi Trucks running I-6's? They must be dumb. You are talking Diesel Competition. Lets stay apples to apples.

Competition Diesels. This gentlemen has a MAJOR block issue at around 700hp. What's the reason? Not enough block material, or not the correct block material to hold that power. Cummins....Stock bottom end there are MANY that are at, near, or have exceeded that power level.

OK, Block Skirting, Great idea. Will that help your engines? I hope so. I know it helps ours.

People talk about getting as much boost and as much fuel as we have/can run. I honestly think that Electronically there is only so much you can do. Cummins, Duramax, Powerstroke....Caterpiller...it doesn't matter. The BIGIST power out there STILL is mechanical injection. Scott Bentz with the Diesel Dragster, the Scheids Drag car, the Big name pullers ALL are running Mechanical.... Why, not nessissarily cause it's simple. Because they can get ALL the fuel they want from that system.

But hey, that's just my .02$ I'm all for competition in the Diesel arena! IF it's Diesel, I'm a fan!

DD


They are running I-6's because of TORQUE down low and also simplicity. V-8's have there place. It doesn't matter nitro, methanol, gas, or diesel. Doesn't matter what it is, fuel and air = POWER.

Mechanical is at it's limits for power production..... The new force to be reckoned with will be the common rail pump.

All it does is pump fuel. Timing is not static like the older mech diesel's are.

Stay tuned.

I agree, as of right now you can't beat mechanical injection........but............but i have no doubts you will see common rail injectioin take over, it might take some time, but it will. The common rail cummins will be leaps and bounds beyond the 12 valves when it gets figured out, and of course the dmax will be there too, hopefully :rolleyes:

It's not all about how much fuel.... when you add the fuel is equally important..

That is the benefit of the full authority timing in the HPCR system.

It's not all about how much fuel.... when you add the fuel is equally important..

That is the benefit of the full authority timing in the HPCR system.


Exactly.

That's why the latest batch of diesels has jumped in power levels so much and have the capability to increase so much more... just with programming.

Greg,

Impressive to say the least. Shame turbos can't do that ):h

Really!!:exactly:



Did you beef up anything down under or do you have parts waiting?

Other than .010 lower compresion pistons, the bottom end is completely stock;)

When anybody claims an hp number driven all the time it's simply not true... Dukey always claimed how he was running 400 all the time. Those are peak dyno readings.

Hoot, my Daily driver(lowest setting) dynoed at 498 uncorrected. Over 450 from 2200 rpm to 3400 rpm :exactly:

How many people put the peddle to the metal from stoplight to stoplight every time they drive?

Ask anyone who has ever ridden with me!!:muahaha:


Aren't 7.3's known to puke rods after a certain power level?

If you don't have the right setup and programming........YES!;)

Greg,

I want to do stacks like yours. Where do you by your pipes around here?

Mike

Mike,

I got them from Greg Long (LSFarms on the TDR) ;)

Mike,

I got them from Greg Long (LSFarms on the TDR) ;)


Is he local or did you have the stuff shipped? Not that it's a big deal.

:rant:

Thats allright. I'd like to see a cummins stay together with 650+ hp on #2 as a daily driver and haul my enclosed trailer with bobcat and material and plow snow, everyday of the week, full jam power............and believe me, if anyone knows me, i drive it like i stole it, but i still respected my egts and maintenance............not gonna have too many cummins owners saying that, not unless there name is pinocchio

That sounds like a WAY arrogant post to me. jmho

912/???? (Jetpilot) 2001- CTD
799.9/???? Joe D. 97- CTD (single turbo #2 only)
741/1339 (csutton7) 99 4x4 QC- CTD
713/???? (Idaho CTD) '02 2500 QCLB 4x4- CTD
709/???? (John Stewart) 04.5 CC SB 4wd CTD

600+ HP
682/???? (Don M) 97 3500 CCLB 5spd 4x4- CTD
665/???? (MDW) 95 2500 Xcab Auto 2wd- CTD

Just to name a few.

Im kind of disapointed in you people. I used to think this site was better than the ford one. For the record, it looks like heartbeat started the whole DMAX VS. CUMMINS war.
Why don't you put brand loyality away for a few minutes and look at things as they are. DMAX-6.6L= more cubic inch displacement, alluminum heads (that flow better than the cummins heads), 8cyl, common rail. good engine? so far my opinion is YES. CUMMINS- 5.9L,Cast heads (less prone to warpage), I6, good engine? HE!! YEAH

and what do you think would happen if the d-max had the mods available that the cummins does? Put the same amount of boost and fuel to the d-max and it will win hands down EVERY time. They are just crossing into the big mods within the last year and have gained enormous ground in a short time.This is true

thats a fallacy. More specifically its generalization. What makes horse power? torque and RPM if your duramx can make good power up to 4,000rpm and you have an idendical cummins that also makes good power up to 4,000rpm who will win?... ok now take the duramax to 4,400 rpm who wins? Just because you have IDENTICAL FUEL AND BOOST doesn't mean your gonna make more horsepower. How well was it tuned? Whats the cam timing? Whats the cam lift? duration? Whats the valve size? whats the injection timing at 4,000rpm? whats the boost? whats the drive pressure? how what kind of injectors are they? dribbly and poorly atomize? How much do the heads flow? (boost is just restriction) the more the DMAX flows + the additional IDENTICAL BOOST is more than the cummins with the IDENTICAL BOOST. do i need to keep going? There are so many different variables in how an engine is set up and TUNED that there is no way you could just run identical fuel and boost and have the one with the most displacement come out ahead. like someone already said apples to apples.

Wait untill someone cracks the cummins ECM and moves the rev limmiter up to 4,000rpm in the common rail.

I agree, as of right now you can't beat mechanical injection........but............but i have no doubts you will see common rail injectioin take over, it might take some time, but it will. The common rail cummins will be leaps and bounds beyond the 12 valves when it gets figured out, and of course the dmax will be there too, hopefully
Now i FULLY agree with you there. There is a smarter side to you!;)

Im a die hard cummins fan but durmax's are a damn good engine as is the cummins, stock and mod'd for both. Do i "troll" sure but its for my OWN quest for more knowledge about diesel performance. Like Diesel Dood already said If it burns #2 I like it. Put away your brand loyality for a few minutes and look at the facts. I've already seen a few of the smarter people on this board answer why the cummins can handle more power with the stock bottom end.

Yeah i know Mr. One post know-it-all. Not trying to make any enemies, just trying to help further this "heated debate"

That's it, I'm buying a ford!

:rant:



That sounds like a WAY arrogant post to me. jmho

912/???? (Jetpilot) 2001- CTD
799.9/???? Joe D. 97- CTD (single turbo #2 only)
741/1339 (csutton7) 99 4x4 QC- CTD
713/???? (Idaho CTD) '02 2500 QCLB 4x4- CTD
709/???? (John Stewart) 04.5 CC SB 4wd CTD

600+ HP
682/???? (Don M) 97 3500 CCLB 5spd 4x4- CTD
665/???? (MDW) 95 2500 Xcab Auto 2wd- CTD

Just to name a few.

Im kind of disapointed in you people. I used to think this site was better than the ford one. For the record, it looks like heartbeat started the whole DMAX VS. CUMMINS war.
Why don't you put brand loyality away for a few minutes and look at things as they are. DMAX-6.6L= more cubic inch displacement, alluminum heads (that flow better than the cummins heads), 8cyl, common rail. good engine? so far my opinion is YES. CUMMINS- 5.9L,Cast heads (less prone to warpage), I6, good engine? HE!! YEAH



thats a fallacy. More specifically its generalization. What makes horse power? torque and RPM if your duramx can make good power up to 4,000rpm and you have an idendical cummins that also makes good power up to 4,000rpm who will win?... ok now take the duramax to 4,400 rpm who wins? Just because you have IDENTICAL FUEL AND BOOST doesn't mean your gonna make more horsepower. How well was it tuned? Whats the cam timing? Whats the cam lift? duration? Whats the valve size? whats the injection timing at 4,000rpm? whats the boost? whats the drive pressure? how what kind of injectors are they? dribbly and poorly atomize? How much do the heads flow? (boost is just restriction) the more the DMAX flows + the additional IDENTICAL BOOST is more than the cummins with the IDENTICAL BOOST. do i need to keep going? There are so many different variables in how an engine is set up and TUNED that there is no way you could just run identical fuel and boost and have the one with the most displacement come out ahead. like someone already said apples to apples.

Wait untill someone cracks the cummins ECM and moves the rev limmiter up to 4,000rpm in the common rail.


Now i FULLY agree with you there. There is a smarter side to you!;)

Im a die hard cummins fan but durmax's are a damn good engine as is the cummins, stock and mod'd for both. Do i "troll" sure but its for my OWN quest for more knowledge about diesel performance. Like Diesel Dood already said If it burns #2 I like it. Put away your brand loyality for a few minutes and look at the facts. I've already seen a few of the smarter people on this board answer why the cummins can handle more power with the stock bottom end.

Yeah i know Mr. One post know-it-all. Not trying to make any enemies, just trying to help further this "heated debate"

Me brand loyal, last time i checked my sig., I own 2 diesel brands and wouldn't have a problem owning a dodge cummins(actually had thoughts about one for a work truck). Its funny how the dodge guys take offence when we compare the dmax to the cummins. I've read my share at the tdr and see the bashing going on there too against the maxipad, duracrap etc etc. I think its funny that you guys get all upset. When i get bugged about the dmax from a cummins owner it makes me laugh and i roll with it, i don't get upset, i just give it back some, of coarse all in fun..............as we are all fellow oil burners :ro)

Give me those named trucks above for 6 months and let me drive it like i drive with what i do with my truck and i can guarantee they will have failures. Hell, i'd have failures if i did the same dmax up like the last. I don't care if its the same failure as mine or something not so destructive, a failure is a failure.

IMHO any brand of truck that is turning more that 500-550 on the street(weeding out nos and prop. and meth as they aren't used on the street 100% all the time like # 2 hp) has lost its longevity and reliablity as a daily driver that you depend on for making money.

You've nailed it right on the head, and i was actually talking about this yesterday. When the common rail cummins gets more fuel and higher revs, look the hell out, it will be the next 12 valve monster, not a day i'm looking forward to, as it is just gonna make me spend more money and break more parts-:t ):h , but something i strive for as i like running a different brand than most all my other competitors, makes for a good show and friendly rivalry.

As far as me starting the war, i don't see it that way, i was stating my opinion which i am entitled to, and i still stick with my opinion. Me brand loyal, not a chance........well maybe:D , i like gm as a truck, as it fits my likings............i like any brand of diesels and respect all 3.............like the ole saying" real trucks don't have spark plugs" :ro) :ro) :ro)

Mr. One post know it all(that was good), i didn't post these pics to start a debate, though it seems my comment maybe started it:o: , but my intentions were to help us dmax guys out in the future and get some higher ups involved to get us up to the heavily heavily modded cummins.

Jeremy, when your ready to take care of that bottom end, give me a call. My good buddy Blake should have all the pieces all drawn up on the CAD setup. HOPEFULLY we will be cutting some samples from plastic for fitment this week yet. Once we get the bottom to hold, the top is next...

Eric: do you feel the block should be strong enough once the rods are strengthened, or will one need to do some work to the webbing, just heard of another damage block over the weekend:eek: , how are the new rods coming, anyone running them yet, thanks





Jeremy, when your ready to take care of that bottom end, give me a call. My good buddy Blake should have all the pieces all drawn up on the CAD setup. HOPEFULLY we will be cutting some samples from plastic for fitment this week yet. Once we get the bottom to hold, the top is next...

That's it, I'm buying a ford!
when i bought my truck i did'nt even go look at the duramaxis. I decided i could not afford a ford so got the cummins and i am glad i did.):h

when i bought my truck i did'nt even go look at the duramaxis. I decided i could not afford a ford so got the cummins and i am glad i did.):h

It takes some people a little longer to admit they screwed up. I'm just glad to see you didn't get the ford. :cool:

It takes some people a little longer to admit they screwed up. I'm just glad to see you didn't get the ford. :cool:

:funnypost :lol: ..

Jeremy,

You done good. When I lost the headgasket in my GMC I also posted about it with pics.... for the good of the masses. Never too proud, no secrets. I commend you for that.

Same goes for all brand owners. I don't have a choice.... MACKIN follows me like a hawk on TDR :help: :lol: and makes sure every squeek and burp I post about over there is plastered here.

Ooops... I feel a guilt feeling coming on...

Eric: do you feel the block should be strong enough once the rods are strengthened, or will one need to do some work to the webbing, just heard of another damage block over the weekend:eek: , how are the new rods coming, anyone running them yet, thanks

Thats being done now. Its all drawn up, should be going to the CNC this week to cut some samples in plastic for final fitment....:ro)

Why don't you put brand loyality away for a few minutes and look at things as they are. DMAX-6.6L= more cubic inch displacement, alluminum heads (that flow better than the cummins heads), 8cyl, common rail. good engine? so far my opinion is YES. CUMMINS- 5.9L,Cast heads (less prone to warpage), I6, good engine? HE!! YEAH

Ok i have to admit that statement wasn't exactly directed at you heartbeat.

And you did make it sound like you were firing the first shot at the cummins, in which case if you didn't thats fine.

Go check out the TDR comp forum see what comp461 and alot of the other post about the duramax, i can't speak for every one over there but i would imagine that the general consensis among the MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE people on that forum is the same as mine about the duramax.

I've read my share at the tdr and see the bashing going on there too against the maxipad, duracrap etc etc
you can't say however that the exact same thing doesn't happen over here, only with reversed rolls...this thread is a perfect example.

interesting that a 3rd party has to be brought in to make a riceburner diesel hold up to the american designed block of the cummins. I give ya credit merchant auto, hooking up the (G)rand(M)a's(C)ar owners... heh...

seriously tho with all the flak hoot has taken, i had to fling some over yer way doods... i`m runnin my 96 12v with 378k and just dynod at 488hp, daily driver, 34 miles each day to work and towin misc crap weekly and weekends my boat..

so go fill up on some rice, might gicha some mo' hp.. LoL...

booya.

What an idiot.. LoL
booya.

yes but am i right?

em tae

ohya... gm's sales were down what.. 16% or something? and dodge was up 4.5%? tell me hows that? hmmmmmmm hmmmmm wait lemme go get some of that employee discount goodness... LoLLLLLLLLLLL

Man you boys sure doing some hell of a recruiting, the dodge site must be pretty quite. Your all over here now:blahblah: :welcome: :lol:

na, still pretty busy over there... nice squirrel, btw heh

Interesting how he calls a v8 a riceburner when he's driving a i6. Also comparing 488hp to 650+.. whatever makes him feel better I guess.

na, still pretty busy over there... nice squirrel, btw heh

Yah his nuts are bigger than the ones your cummins has:muahaha: :lol:

:funnypost

Stick a fork in this one :blahblah:

interesting that a 3rd party has to be brought in to make a riceburner diesel hold up to the american designed block of the cummins. I give ya credit merchant auto, hooking up the (G)rand(M)a's(C)ar owners... heh...

seriously tho with all the flak hoot has taken, i had to fling some over yer way doods... i`m runnin my 96 12v with 378k and just dynod at 488hp, daily driver, 34 miles each day to work and towin misc crap weekly and weekends my boat..

so go fill up on some rice, might gicha some mo' hp.. LoL...

booya.


Hey guys..... this guy is just playing with you and you call him stupid.

He makes a very good point. GM went to Japan for the diesel. And in the end they still have a Grand Ma truck but now with a rice burner engine :lol:

His truck has an honest 378,000 miles on it..... hear that? Not bad running close to 500 hp.

Talk about balls, Cummins has the biggest American bread ones.

This debate could go on for years:eek: We sound like a bunch of cakling hens:muahaha: :lol:

interesting that a 3rd party has to be brought in to make a riceburner diesel hold up to the american designed block of the cummins. I give ya credit merchant auto, hooking up the (G)rand(M)a's(C)ar owners... heh...

seriously tho with all the flak hoot has taken, i had to fling some over yer way doods... i`m runnin my 96 12v with 378k and just dynod at 488hp, daily driver, 34 miles each day to work and towin misc crap weekly and weekends my boat..

so go fill up on some rice, might gicha some mo' hp.. LoL...

booya.


Do a majority of Cummins owners have spelling and grammar capabilities of a 4th grader?

Do a majority of Cummins owners have spelling and grammar capabilities of a 4th grader?
I do, it's because my noisy 12 Valve has rattled by brain loose :D

isnt the duramax made in the states?

gm truck sales are down, as well as the big three. its not dogde either, its daimler chrysler(sp?), and i bet there econmy cars went up 4.5%, not the trucks

I do, it's because my noisy 12 Valve has rattled by brain loose :D

Well, at least you can complete a whole sentence, although it verges on a comma splice. I'll allow it for now. :D

isnt the duramax made in the states?

:exactly:
Yep! Always has been. It's a joint Gm/Isuzu DESIGN, but is and always has been built by GM in the Moraine Ohio assembly plant. This "rice motor" stuff is just as valid as the "melted aluminum heads." :blahblah: Consider the source.

Man you boys sure doing some hell of a recruiting, the dodge site must be pretty quite.QUIET Your all over here now

Do a majority of Cummins owners have spelling and grammar capabilities of a 4th grader?

I wouldn't be thinking to high and mighty about your members spelling and grammar capabilites.

Yah his nuts are bigger than the ones your cummins has

Speaking of fourth grade.:lol: HAHAHA that one was good.

interesting that a 3rd party has to be brought in to make a riceburner diesel hold up to the american designed block of the cummins. I give ya credit merchant auto, hooking up the (G)rand(M)a's(C)ar owners... heh...

seriously tho with all the flak hoot has taken, i had to fling some over yer way doods... i`m runnin my 96 12v with 378k and just dynod at 488hp, daily driver, 34 miles each day to work and towin misc crap weekly and weekends my boat..

so go fill up on some rice, might gicha some mo' hp.. LoL...

booya.

What a moron...hello! Dodge is not an American company. Better look for something else...dood!

What a moron...hello! Dodge is not an American company. Better look for something else...dood!


Cummins is pure bread American and they are making money in the states with American workers.

Did you know the pay rate for the assy line workers when I visited Dmax, was 9 something an hour? The plant was full of Japanese engineers and managers and United Textile workers... not UAW

Is this all a bad thing? No. We are all in this together.... from the Moon looking at Earth.

It's amazing how the dudge guys have nothing better to do than come to this site and ***** about posts and pound their chests about how great there cum-ins are. They must of run out of compliments for each other on the cum-in site.

Nobody here cares about your dudges, if we did we would be driving one.

So go back to whatever cum-in site you came from and try to impress some one over there.

Here's your hat, and a big glass of stfu to go.

.

It's amazing how the dudge guys have nothing better to do than come to this site and ***** about posts and pound their chests about how great there cum-ins are. They must of run out of compliments for each other on the cum-in site.

Nobody here cares about your dudges, if we did we would be driving one.

So go back to whatever cum-in site you came from and try to impress some one over there.

Here's your hat, and a big glass of stfu to go.

.

Hey here's another spelling and grammar error. (mishap?) The guy can't spell Dodge or Cummins.

Yeah we have run dry of all compliments, been scraping the bottom of the barrel for a couple of months now.

If no one cares about our "dudges" why are we arguing? Someone cares. What further amazes me is at the first of this thread, someone mentions how many times this thread will be plastered all over the TDR. Are you offended that "we" came in here and started to defend something we like?

Why don't you go join the diesel stop if you want a one brand world where all other makes and models suck. Correct me if im wrong but, isn't this a discussion forum where we discuss things?

As for pounding our chest's.:exactly:

Hey here's another spelling and grammar error. (mishap?) The guy can't spell Dodge or Cummins.

:eek: OMG I mispelled dudge and cum-in, I hate when that happens

Yeah we have run dry of all compliments, been scraping the bottom of the barrel for a couple of months now.

Funny you should mention scraping the bottom of the barrel and dudge's in the same paragraph.

If no one cares about our "dudges" why are we arguing?

Not arguing, discussing.

Someone cares.

Not about dudge's

What further amazes me is at the first of this thread, someone mentions how many times this thread will be plastered all over the TDR.

Ya mostly because we know how easy it is to get you guys upset ):h We don't even have to post on the tdr and somehow we know you guy's will cry about a post way over here on a GM site.

Are you offended that "we" came in here and started to defend something we like?

No, I'm offended that you think that just because you defend something you like, that I will care about what your defending.

Why don't you go join the diesel stop if you want a one brand world where all other makes and models suck.

The diesel what ?

Correct me if im wrong but, isn't this a discussion forum where we discuss things?

Sure, if you want to discuss how to reinforce the bottom end of a Duramax then discuss away, otherwise here's that big glass of stfu again.

As for pounding our chest's. :badidea:

.

GM has ALWAYS been mediocre with diesels.

One detail to point out is that unlike the old 5.7L diesel, GM DID NOT design the D-Max. Isuzu did, and they have many years building Diesels. The 6.6L D-Max was built to be a Light/Med duty diesel. What's the mileage before overhaul on the I-6 D-Max (7.8L?)? If I had to guess, I'd say up there around the Cummins. Again, not because the Cummins is better than the D-Max, but because the I-6 design is inherently more stout than a V-8, regardless of who makes it.

And AFAIK, the Cumming 600 uses the same injectors as the D-Max.

My favorite part was where you manipulated my post at the very end.

Ok so you wanna talk about how to reinforce the bottom end of a duramax? Why doesn't someone suggest cryo freezing and shot peening? Since the owner of the failed block doesn't know what caused the failure first, be it the block was just to weak or if something else failed first. Strengthening the crank would be a good start. Do you want to continue to argue (discuss?) symantics or talk about how to strenghthen a block? FYI i joined this site so i could learn more about duramax's not to "discuss" what's better, but i could not help my self. I know the possibilities.

When do we get to stop :boxing: and :nutkick: and start this :beerchug: :drinking: :drinking: :Handshake :muahaha: ):h

I cant spell so I'm using pictures now, is this better?

Hey here's another spelling and grammar error. (mishap?) The guy can't spell Dodge or Cummins.

Yeah we have run dry of all compliments, been scraping the bottom of the barrel for a couple of months now.

If no one cares about our "dudges" why are we arguing? Someone cares. What further amazes me is at the first of this thread, someone mentions how many times this thread will be plastered all over the TDR. Are you offended that "we" came in here and started to defend something we like?

Why don't you go join the diesel stop if you want a one brand world where all other makes and models suck. Correct me if im wrong but, isn't this a discussion forum where we discuss things?

As for pounding our chest's.:exactly:

I mentioned that, and with good reason..
On these boards, well the brand specific ones anyway, the members generally look for failures of the engines of the other brands. When they find them, they post a link with the usual caption "Look guys, the pos (insert brand here) is junk" or something to that effect. Like it or not, that's the simple truth since it happens EVERYWHERE. People need to feel good about what they layed down their hard earned money for.

Aholes...... this place is called THE DIESEL PLACE.... not THE GM PLACE

It has forums on all brands and would even be better if it was more evenly weighted. Some argue that doesn't work... well guess what we are here. GM does not rule. They say they do and some of you morons believe the commercials :lol:

Cummins is pure bread American

Dammit, Hoot, at least I thought I could count on you to make up for your three-toothed buddies.

It's "bred," not "bread."

You eat Italian bread. If your mom and dad are Italian, then you are Italian bred.

Breed:sheephump

Ok so you wanna talk about how to reinforce the bottom end of a duramax? Why doesn't someone suggest cryo freezing and shot peening? Since the owner of the failed block doesn't know what caused the failure first, be it the block was just to weak or if something else failed first. Strengthening the crank would be a good start.

If the block failed, it would almost certainly cause the crank failure, right?

Why then, would you start with strengthening the crank?

Secondly, how would you go about strengthening the crank?

Seriously, if you have something to add, let 'er rip. I'm not being an a-hole (well, at least, not in this post :D)

Breed:sheephump


:lol: .... ):h

Aholes...... this place is called THE DIESEL PLACE.... not THE GM PLACE


but those arent Dudge's that proudly sit above the text that says "Diesel Place"... actually I take that back, they arent standing proudly, because they are standing just like my truck in my avatar, which Hoot dislikes.:rolleyes: ):h

---ben


...and the Diesel Stop isnt called the Ford Stop...actually that would be funny because Ford's dont go, they stop HA HA HA.

...and the Turbo Diesel Registry isnt the Cummin's Diesel Registry. Sorry I dont have any witty comment making fun of that title...I coudlnt think of one; im not that quick..maybe someone else can think of something..

Aholes...... this place is called THE DIESEL PLACE.... not THE GM PLACE


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/misc/dp_logo_sm1.jpg (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/index.php)

See any Dodges in this picture? Don't F'n think so.

See any Dodges in this picture? Don't F'n think so.

I dont F'in think so either. ):h

The fender flares are done very stylishly, not like peel & stick. :D

No expert here (and I don't claim to be).
It seems like the center mains were the ones to let go. Ideally if a crank was truelly rigid, the remaining mains would have helped hold it in the block. A main stud girdle does spread the force of combustion to all the mains vs. the one's closest to the firing cylinder. I would assume a stronger/more rigid crank would help in that area as well.

Yes the mains look like they should/could be stronger for the power level some of these guys are pushing or going to push, but it doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't strengthen everything else. When you make one components stronger, it makes another component the weakest link.

Just look at the gassers. They went from two bolt mains, to four bolt mains, to splayed mains, to stud girdles and had to go from cast to forged cranks, etc. etc.

The Dmax is a great stock motor and even with a fairly good amount of "hot-rodding" but when you start pushing it to the limit as these guys are doing, it will need to be totally revamped. That's why serious gassers don't use "production" blocks, but rather aftermarket blocks. You don't see John Force using a stock Mark IV BBC powering his dragster :lol:


If the block failed, it would almost certainly cause the crank failure, right?

Why then, would you start with strengthening the crank?

Secondly, how would you go about strengthening the crank?

Seriously, if you have something to add, let 'er rip. I'm not being an a-hole (well, at least, not in this post :D)

No expert here (and I don't claim to be).
It seems like the center mains were the ones to let go. Ideally if a crank was truelly rigid, the remaining mains would have helped hold it in the block. A main stud girdle does spread the force of combustion to all the mains vs. the one's closest to the firing cylinder. I would assume a stronger/more rigid crank would help in that area as well.

Yes the mains look like they should/could be stronger for the power level some of these guys are pushing or going to push, but it doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't strengthen everything else. When you make one components stronger, it makes another component the weakest link.

Just look at the gassers. They went from two bolt mains, to four bolt mains, to splayed mains, to stud girdles and had to go from cast to forged cranks, etc. etc.

The Dmax is a great stock motor and even with a fairly good amount of "hot-rodding" but when you start pushing it to the limit as these guys are doing, it will need to be totally revamped. That's why serious gassers don't use "production" blocks, but rather aftermarket blocks. You don't see John Force using a stock Mark IV BBC powering his dragster :lol:


Lest we forget.... as so many of us always do in these heated topics... the big picture.....

Diesel blocks are known to be over engineered to handle the long term abuse of high compression and high torque loads.

GM has a bad habit of cutting back on the over-engineered part when it comes to diesels... and so here we are. Some ;) diesels haven't been raped by the "Profit Monger" engineers and so they can handle more power without self destructing.


On the Diesel Place comments.... Interesting why this place isn't called The GM Diesel Place.

Show me a stock Dmax that has blown up due to catastrophic engine failure because of "stupid GM cutting back on the over-build factor on diesel's". If my engine blows up after I crank out over 600 hp at the rear wheels, I am not going to complain. I was asking it to make over double the horsepower what it was designed to make. Why would I be in any position to complain and say "stupid GM junk" when I was asking it to do something it wasnt designed to do. Now if it was a bone stock engine, THEN i'd throw a fit.

--Ben

Fork please - anyone??

Show me a stock Dmax that has blown up due to catastrophic engine failure because of "stupid GM cutting back on the over-build factor on diesel's". If my engine blows up after I crank out over 600 hp at the rear wheels, I am not going to complain. I was asking it to make over double the horsepower what it was designed to make. Why would I be in any position to complain and say "stupid GM junk" when I was asking it to do something it wasnt designed to do. Now if it was a bone stock engine, THEN i'd throw a fit.

--Ben

I never said junk. Just talking about the advantages of the diesel engine over it's gas counterpart and GM's bad habits.


Stick a fork in that block

Are we still arguing about this?

Are we still arguing about this?

Hey I'm all for the useful exchange of information - I referred to the "Hoot Method" for installing the pyro in my truck - that was helpful. The purpose of the this thread TO BEGIN WITH was to serve as food for thought for the moon shooters in the HP race which not so slowly deteriorated into the school yard banter. Hoot - I think you made your point about 6 pages ago. You think the Cummins/DC is a better product in every aspect - great, can we move on now. I am unclear on how after an exchange of information about improving the DMAX, needs to have the "yeah but the cummins doesn't need that" or "the cummins has achieved that years ago" interjected. I for one appreciated your detailed accounts of how you modified or improved your trucks - yes both the GM and the DC one. But it seems that most of your posts border on DC evangelizing and converting everybody on this site to the "Goat Club" as it were. You like your truck - so do I even with all of its defects and short comings that are purportatly inherent to any compression ignition engine that GM has had contact with. A lot of it makes me laugh just about out loud, my V8 diesel will shift down on a hill that a 5.9 cummins engine won't - so its inferior. If that helps all the I6 guys sleep better because thier engine has more oomph at 1400 Rpm then happy slumbering. In the case of competition, pulls, dynos, races last time I check it was who had the quickest time, highest number, or longest pull - not whether or not they were able to launch at 1400 Rpm or whether thier truck had an I6 JUST LIKE THE REAL TRUCKS DO. It just so happens that right now the king of the hill is the 5.9. Just don't be a hater because somebody is trying to knock em off.
:rant:

If the block failed, it would almost certainly cause the crank failure, right?

Why then, would you start with strengthening the crank?

Secondly, how would you go about strengthening the crank?

Seriously, if you have something to add, let 'er rip. I'm not being an a-hole (well, at least, not in this post )

I answered this already.

No expert here (and I don't claim to be).
It seems like the center mains were the ones to let go. Ideally if a crank was truelly rigid, the remaining mains would have helped hold it in the block. A main stud girdle does spread the force of combustion to all the mains vs. the one's closest to the firing cylinder. I would assume a stronger/more rigid crank would help in that area as well.

Yes the mains look like they should/could be stronger for the power level some of these guys are pushing or going to push, but it doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't strengthen everything else. When you make one components stronger, it makes another component the weakest link.

Just look at the gassers. They went from two bolt mains, to four bolt mains, to splayed mains, to stud girdles and had to go from cast to forged cranks, etc. etc.

The Dmax is a great stock motor and even with a fairly good amount of "hot-rodding" but when you start pushing it to the limit as these guys are doing, it will need to be totally revamped. That's why serious gassers don't use "production" blocks, but rather aftermarket blocks. You don't see John Force using a stock Mark IV BBC powering his dragster :lol:

:agreed: .

"You think the Cummins/DC is a better product in every aspect"

This is the problem. I never said that. That's twice in recent posts where some here take me past what I say or mean. I understand... it's a pisser when you find out stuff like this. Oh my.. the Dmax actually has mechanical limitations.... who would have thunkit?

Now... why are they looking to tighten the Dmax block up? To compete against other Dmaxes? NO... to compete against the top dogs... who right now happens to be Dodge.

So a little bit of poking gets you all upset.

hoot needs to realize that the top cummins pulling trucks have LOTS of internal engine work done to them. Why do you think Scheid is getting over $30K for a full built motor?

hoot needs to realize that the top cummins pulling trucks have LOTS of internal engine work done to them. Why do you think Scheid is getting over $30K for a full built motor?

Yes but at what power levels. It's expected that all motors will fail regularly at certain power levels.
So what does Shied give you for $30,000?