water/meth ???? [Archive] - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

: water/meth ????


01Duramax6spd
09-20-2005, 03:48 PM
What exactly does it methanol and water do? Do you shoot it into the intake or what? I like the idea of being able to run cooler but need to have more understanding.Do you have to have any other modifications? I will have a programmer/chip on mine but my dad was wondering about running it on a stuck truck.Thanks

chaseum
09-20-2005, 04:53 PM
This is what I was considering before going w/ propane. The info. is cut/copied from their website http://www.snowperformance.net/products.asp?id=10 they have a little more in the site but this is the basis.
The Boost Cooler® is Snow Performance’s latest generation water/methanol injection system. The primary function of water/methanol injection is to provide “chemical intercooling”.

In gasoline engines, as with any intercooler, this suppresses detonation so more power producing boost and timing can be utilized. Water, with its high latent heat of vaporization cools the intake charge and combustion. Methanol cools the charge and combustion but also acts like an extremely high octane fuel (some researchers claim as high as 120 octane) as well as adding more oxygen to combustion.

In diesels, the effect is three fold: 1. The intercooling effect provides for more available air and all the benefits of a higher positive pressure ratio (more power giving fuel can be utilized safely without high combustion temperatures). 2. The combustion of water provides for more power on the power stroke. 3. Methanol acts as an additional fuel for more power.
As far as needing For applications over 350 HP/25 psig boost. Features include a high volume, high pressure pump and new Heavy Duty Digital Variable Controller (25-100psi) for max power and cooler EGT’s. Great for smooth power at all boost/RPM levels. Expect 70RWHP and 250°f exhaust gas temp.

You can use it on your modified or you dads stock truck. I am assuming you meant stock and not "stuck truck." If your dad wants a programmer I have a hypertechIII I will be selling next month. There is another place I found to get the boost cooler. It had the tank as part of the kit. I forgot the manufacture. <okay it is 1am here I know i spelled that wrong

ATSDiesel
09-22-2005, 05:04 PM
The water also has a cleaning effect when it is vaporized it breaks down the carbon on the valves, pistons, and heads. Its like steam cleaning your engine. Some shops charge for the same sort of thing but with the injection you get it when ever you want it.

Los Lobos
09-22-2005, 05:17 PM
Superdiesel makes a great setup that is an easy install also. If you plan on doing alot of towing get the largest tank that will fit your application as it will be used up quickly when towing heavy or climbing long grades. You will notice it when using it by a difference in sound and feel. There are a few other threads on this topic to also research for more information.

Chaseum is right on in his explanation. When water is converted from a liquid to a gas it expands 17000 times it's original form plus "soaks" up alot of heat(Btu's) in the conversion process. Thus creating a cooler combustion process in conjunction with the lower burn temps of the methanol you will see more HP/TQ. You will also see an increase in boost psi while running the WMI and is noticeable w/ the SOTP meter. It is injected after the intercooler and before the intake.

I use as low of temp. rating as I can get in windshield washer fluid for daily usage. Usually 0 to -40 depending on your auto parts store and location. For competition I mix my own % trying to stay to a maximium of 50% methanol.

KTDURAMAX
09-22-2005, 05:40 PM
I am using superdiesels kit with 2 #10 nozzles. Without any chips/power adders, my engine stutters and blows white smoke out the exaust under 20 psi and hard throttle like as if I put out the cumbustion....my nozzles are not 180* (opposing). Should I take one out. I have an LLY does the VVT play a wierder role with the boost/flooding? I am using a 30% meth mixture blended with water from the water/ice store...

scamp73
09-22-2005, 07:07 PM
If it stutters when the water is on, it getting to much water.

KTDURAMAX
09-22-2005, 07:17 PM
What would happen if I took 1 nozzle out? I was actually at 33% (5 gallon meth and 10 gallons water) 15 gal tank...

Los Lobos
09-22-2005, 07:34 PM
You will get a higher nozzle psi if you remove a nozzle, which isn't a negative. I would try a higher % meth mix. I run -30 or -40 ww fluid most of the time with good results. Play with the mix %'s first, I run the nozzles the same way yours is setup also.

KTDURAMAX
09-22-2005, 08:06 PM
In arizona it's almost impossible to get -30 washer fluid....always +32* stuff. I will play with the %'s more. I will be towing heavy next weekend.

Kappa9012
09-22-2005, 10:29 PM
I'd say way to much water.

KTDURAMAX
09-23-2005, 11:41 AM
OK, but then why can/do some people talk about running STRAIGHT WATER then? I am new to this Meth stuff so bear with me.:help:

KTDURAMAX
09-23-2005, 11:45 AM
Another question....

Say I am watching my EGT gauge and I'm in it heavy towing up hill in 3rd-4th gear at 1400*. If I flip the switch for the Meth, would I actually see the EGT's DROP or hold steady or rise with the added power assuming the boost is up over 15 psi and I wait till I see 1400* egt???? I will do a 50/50 mix next tow. I want to know that it's working ok.....

Los Lobos
09-23-2005, 11:56 AM
50/50 mix will seem to run rougher so expect that. I can't answer the EGT question because I haven't tried that out yet. If we can get motovet to chime in, I know he has played with it like that with his trailer on.

ATSDiesel
09-23-2005, 02:28 PM
When running the water/meth you can see up to 200 degree drop in temp.:driver:

chaseum
09-23-2005, 02:57 PM
The water also has a cleaning effect when it is vaporized it breaks down the carbon on the valves, pistons, and heads. Its like steam cleaning your engine. Some shops charge for the same sort of thing but with the injection you get it when ever you want it.
I heard that is why they work w/ CA diesels (That is why I was going to purchase the h2oMeth kit)...

killerbee
09-23-2005, 03:10 PM
Kevin, if you can, just run 2 smaller flow nozzles. Your reports sound like you are putting the fire out. Better to run multiple lo-flow nozzles for reduced drop size, than to run single mammoth ones. Do you know what pressure and flow rate you are getting?

What are the specs on a #10 nozzle?

KTDURAMAX
09-23-2005, 04:20 PM
When running the water/meth you can see up to 200 degree drop in temp.:driver:

So If I flip the switch on when EGT's get high, they will start going down? from say 1400* to 1200's because I saw barely any drop (actually held steady and rose slightly after the hill got longer) @ 33% mixture

chaseum
09-23-2005, 04:30 PM
if you add straight h2o you might still see an additional hp because of the extra cylinder pressure/ compression but I do not believe you will see the added cooling. I believe the cooling affect is because of the meth. more-so than the h2o itself.
I am no expert but this is just some of the things I have researched

PaulRahoi
09-23-2005, 05:07 PM
So If I flip the switch on when EGT's get high, they will start going down? from say 1400* to 1200's because I saw barely any drop (actually held steady and rose slightly after the hill got longer) @ 33% mixture

KTDURAMAX: I thought I read somewhere that w/m will not reduce ALREADY HIGH EGTs by 200 degrees, but will keep LOWER EGTs from ascending by 200 degrees. So if the w/m comes on EARLY (when truck is at 500-1200 EGT temps) it would then serve to keep it @ 1200 EGTs. But if you flip a switch once it's already up to 1400 degrees, then it's too late, and now your dealing with maintained 1400 EGTs. The principle would seem to be that the issue must be addressed EARLY in order prevent high EGT's, thus.... the w/m should be set to come on at a relatively early boost level.... OR... flip your manual switch a little earlier. --Paul.

Kappa9012
09-23-2005, 05:32 PM
If you were climbing up a hill in 3-4 gear and were hitting 1400 degrees, my assumption would be that you were probably at wide open throttle or damn close.

So what would probably happen is this. I doubt very much that your egt's would drop, but for the same pedal position and exhaust temps you would get an increase in power, and accelerate. If you added the W/M while climbing the hill and you lifted off the throttle you may not accelerate, but you egt's would go down in that cituation.

Make sense? probably not.

akdiesel
09-23-2005, 05:49 PM
KTDURAMAX,
I too have the Hot juice/Predator and I am running the water/meth set up with two .625 jets. I keep my Juice on lvl 5 and the Predator on lvl 3. There has been reports of the Predator making a lot of heat, and I am noticing it even with the injection on. Also they claim that with the power that we have now you will/may not see the estimated 70 hp increase and the 200 deg drop. Those estimates are for a stock truck.
I would think that if you had a steady 1400 deg egt and then hit the injection it would come down slightly after a little while. That metal will retain the heat that has built up over a long duration.

PaulRahoi
09-23-2005, 06:16 PM
KTDURAMAX,
...Also they claim that with the power that we have now you will/may not see the estimated 70 hp increase and the 200 deg drop. Those estimates are for a stock truck.
I would think that if you had a steady 1400 deg egt and then hit the injection it would come down slightly after a little while. That metal will retain the heat that has built up over a long duration.

akdiesel: You may be right about stock trucks, but I don't think heat retention in metal will have much effect on slowing EGT reductions. In the case of liquids, such as transmission fluid and engine coolant, the temperatures move up/down relatively slow, and seem to be more directly effected by heat soaking. But in the case of EGT's, where AIR is the medium.... I've seen my EGT's drop from 1200 to 500 in less than 10 seconds, easily. But then again... I don't have a chip/programmer.... do people running chips/programmers see less fluxuation in EGTs? --Paul.

Los Lobos
09-23-2005, 07:02 PM
In a stock truck it's more realistic to see 20-30HP increase. I only saw the 60+ while running w/ big fueling and N2O.

akdiesel
09-23-2005, 08:11 PM
Paul,
I believe you are correct. That was what I was trying to say, I am just not the best at saying clearly.

motovet
10-05-2005, 11:20 PM
I noticed up to a 300* drop with 50/50 mix while towing heavy and the Extreme on kill. When running the lower 120 setting the savings were about 200* plus. When lowering the meth percentage, the heat loss is reduced accordingly. I can get the EGT's to drop after things get warm when hitting the switch, but hardly the results you get when it kicks in at 16 psi.