This is Dan at Xtreme Diesel Performance. For anyone interested in the capabilities of the Banks Six-Gun module, we’ve finally had a chance to run one on our Mustang 1750 Dyno. Visit the link below to see our results for all six levels. If you have any questions I will do my best to answer them for you.


http://xtremediesel.com/sixgun_duramax.htm

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Results look good! Will the speed loader let you shift on the fly from level to level? Im not too sure what it does?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


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Looks like socaldmax pegged this one
" Now let's talk about your dyno chart. The first thing I notice is the scale used. The bottom of the scale starts at 150hp rather than 0. Not outright deceptive, but showing the chart from 150hp to 350hp rather than 0 to 350hp radically accentuates and exaggerates the difference. So much that at first I didn't notice that the Six Gun with Speed-Loader peaks at somewhere around 335 or 340hp. the stock curve shows 250hp... my calcumaguesser says that's only an 85 or 90 hp gain. Far below the 155hp I expected to see on there."




HP 239.0 @ 2900

Torque 452.8 @ 2650



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Six-Gun Level 1

HP 263.9 @ 3250

Torque 461.6 @ 2750



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Six-Gun Level 2

HP 309.9 @ 3250

Torque 542.8 @ 2750




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Six-Gun Level 3

HP 317.8 @ 3250

Torque 565.2 @ 2250



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Six-Gun Level 4

HP 325.1 @ 3250

Torque 627.2 @ 2250



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Six-Gun Level 5

HP 327.7 @ 3250

Torque 660.2 @ 2250




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Six-Gun Level 6

HP 340.3 @ 3250

Torque 704.7 @ 2250



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Purchase the Six-Gun no thanks the 90 hp juice is easier

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/C3F_hotjuicehorsepow.jpg


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/AC3_hotjuicetorque.jpg


*

notice these are hot juice runs but the standard 90/250 is shown as level 4 standard..........alright banks guys make your marketing point nowhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif Edited by: sdaver

How does it install? Seems like the numbers are decent, and the low end is slightly better... (?)

Any EGT's to go with the curves or at least a max number achieved in testing? That is a major factor in determining a purchase for me.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

Sorry XtremeDiesel is a non supporting vendor ,please see vendor policy (http://mail.wackywack.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=250&amp;PN=1)....


In fairness...


Dan is using this as a "sales" link I have to place in the vendors forum ...


Diesel Place Edited by: Mackin

Hmmm.


I didn't predict anything, just read the numbers off of Bank's own dyno sheets.


The peak torque obtained at this shop was 705ft-lbs at 2250rpm.... quite a bit less than the 850ft-lbs @ 1800rpm shown on the Banks torque chart. Perhaps there was some difference in testing method or dyno setup that could explain this, but since none of the other tuners on the market had a curve that made that much torque at such low rpm, I didn't see how tuning could do it.

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<TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNABLE="off">Just talked to a Banks tech, he rode in a 3500 duelly stockintake and exhaust, with six gun, yesterday. Just playing around trying all levels ( no towing). Claims EGT gauge showed no higher than 1050. Said it was a rocket ( and no smoke). Whats up with the smoke claims on the juice anyway? Isn't that just an indication of inefficiency? I am still looking for the box for my 04 LB7http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif</TD></TR>
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my calcumaguesser says that's only an 85 or 90 hp gain. Far below the 155hp I expected to see on there."


Hey SD,


I think your calcumaguesser needs a recalibration. The stock run shows the truck putting out 239 HP. The Banks box on level 6 puts out 340 HP. According to my math that is 101 HP and you say their dyno chart is deceptive? What gives? The dyno chart has the numbers on it, regardless of what it starts at you would need to read it to interpret it. Also you compare an independant test results to the dyno charts published on the Edge web site. C'mon.... If you look at this test it was done without the optional speed loader. Without this, Banks only claims about 120 HP NOT the 155 HP your are mentioning.


Get your facts straight dude....

hey joe.........join up just to smack me I consider it a honor.....fact is they got carried away with their own press reports. What happened to the torque? In reality its much lower than any thing I run daily(even with the loader).....Some of the newer programs I have, have some improvements coming when some fuel issues are resolved but as another infamous tuner here says we are working on it. As for the banks claim of the highest hp tuner they better call edge quad tst or tts........Yes I used the edge dyno sheets but their results have been repeated on more than one occasion since your new maybe you should do a little reading.Edited by: sdaver

hey Joe 100....tell us a little about yourself...


Where you from....what you got....awfully funny this is your first post..


Troll perhaps.....or maybe you are a clone....hhhmmmmmmmmm..

XtremeDiesel-


Looking at Banks charts,



<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=9 width="100%"><T>
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<TD width=181 bgColor=#ffffff>Six-Gun, Level 6 (http://www.bankspower.com/System.cfm?appid=AC08&amp;sysid=SC16)</TD>
<TD align=middle width=100 bgColor=#d9d9d9>Stock</TD>
<TD align=middle width=100 bgColor=#f3f3f3>Banks</TD>
<TD align=middle width=100 bgColor=#d9d9d9>Improvement</TD>
<TD align=middle width=100 bgColor=#f3f3f3>Results</TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>



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<TD bgColor=#f3f3f3>Rear-wheel Torque: peak-to-peak</TD>
<TD bgColor=#d9d9d9>458 lb-ft (1800 rpm)</TD>
<TD bgColor=#f3f3f3>803 lb-ft (1800 rpm)</TD>
<TD bgColor=#d9d9d9>+345 lb-ft torque</TD>
<TD bgColor=#f3f3f3>75% more, peak-to-peak</TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>


Did you see comparable @ 1800 ? I can't quite make out your chart on my computer. ON EDIT:Sorry after looking at your chart again it looks like approx 450#/ft @ 1800 rpm if I am reading it correctly.Edited by: aztjc

Hey guys this is Dan at Xtreme, I just stepped in the door.
I just want to let everyone know that the results posted are with out the speed loader option. I’m just showing what the unit did for us on the dyno, the numbers are what they are. When I get back to work tomorrow we will post the Edge Juice with Attitude run. The run took place minutes after the Banks run, on the same exact truck. The results are impressive, and you will see a side by side comparison. We are not trying to alter anything or push one specific product, we drive the same trucks you do and look for the most power out of them. The post will be placed on the performance page and I will remove all links to purchase anything.

Hey guys this is Dan at Xtreme, I just stepped in the door.
I just want to let everyone know that the results posted are with out the speed loader option. I’m just showing what the unit did for us on the dyno, the numbers are what they are. When I get back to work tomorrow we will post the Edge Juice with Attitude run. The run took place minutes after the Banks run, on the same exact truck. The results are impressive, and you will see a side by side comparison. We are not trying to alter anything or push one specific product, we drive the same trucks you do and look for the most power out of them. The post will be placed on the performance page and I will remove all links to purchase anything.





Excellent and thanks for complying Dan ..... I look forward to the results, as others do also ....


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif

I am very glad to finally see some independent dyno results. It is about time. Every post in this tread incuding Joe 100,troll or no troll has had some truth. Nobody here has spoke any lies or anything that is not true. Believe it or not you are all correct. Yes the original graphs published by Banks were misleading. I am sure there sales engineers new this was the best way to represent there product. Obviously the Banks 6-gun will never win the "peak HP" or "peak TQ" war. Speed loader or no speed loader. If you go to the Banks sight and read the plain white sheet of paper, it explains alot about the product. They basically state that they are trying to develop a product that is safe for all users at all alltitudes. They have to much on the line to "fry" peoples engines or trannys. Go run a 6-gun on level 6 up a hill with a 10,000 lb. trailer and do the same with all the others on max. level and see who comes home cryin first. The Banks will not win but it could probally due it all day long. Each tuner has a specific "niche". You high HP guys don't need to get your pantys all up in a wad. You are still #1 in my book! In the meantime it would be interesting to learn more about this product and it's specific "niche". Please tell me the EXACT modifications to the truck that these test were performed on. Exaust,intake,tire size, tranny as these items are all relavent. Please give me some very descript accounts of real world driving and towing scenarios. My stock Dmax is as smooth as glass and I would never want to do anything to jepordize that. I love my soft shifftin tranny. I love my complete reliability. I love how smooth she accelerates and how smooth she cruises down the highway. As an old Oklahoma friend of mine says" Sounds like she is tying every bundle". I want to be be able to say that about my truck for a very long time. I have read every post on this site in regards to tuners and have a very good understanding of the different modules and programmers available. I also have learned a thing or 2 about the manufactures, themselves and there customer relations. They are all competing to get my dollar and they are all runnin neck and neck. I need to find the one that is right for ME. Please, lets all learn about the 6-gun. You high HP guys have nothing to worry about. Your are still # 1. in my book. Buy the way, have you ever heard of ENZYTE?


ON EDIT: April 3rd. 2004 When a guy rereads his post, it is easy to see ones errors. Hindsight is truly 20/20!Edited by: Bronco

Hey Joe100, welcome to last month. You joined the party - late. The quote you're disputing was made by me - about a month ago. It was in reference to BANK's OWN dyno charts, NOT independent testing. Their ad copy says 155hp, their dyno chart shows 85hp, that is still a discrepancy.


This dyno run that YOU are referring to was recorded YESTERDAY 1/28/04 and does indeed indicate 101hp gain, better than Bank's own chart and without the speed loader. Still a far cry from 155hp.


Furthermore, I'm referring to the results of independent testing of the Edge box by myself and only about 2345 other Duramax owners, and we've seen anywhere from 85hp gain (on my truck, naturally) to over 90hp, from a box advertised at 90hp. The 125hp version has been tested to produce 135-138hp, the 145hp version has produced 145hp or better on every truck dyno'd... Search thru about 1.5 yrs worth of posts in the 6600 forum on The Diesel Page and all of the posts in the Power forum here for more background info.


Get YOUR facts straight. Dood.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif








my calcumaguesser says that's only an 85 or 90 hp gain. Far below the 155hp I expected to see on there."


Hey SD,


I think your calcumaguesser needs a recalibration. The stock run shows the truck putting out 239 HP. The Banks box on level 6 puts out 340 HP. According to my math that is 101 HP and you say their dyno chart is deceptive? What gives? The dyno chart has the numbers on it, regardless of what it starts at you would need to read it to interpret it. Also you compare an independant test results to the dyno charts published on the Edge web site. C'mon.... If you look at this test it was done without the optional speed loader. Without this, Banks only claims about 120 HP NOT the 155 HP your are mentioning.


Get your facts straight dude....

You high HP guys have nothing to worry about. Your are still # 1. in my book. Buy the way, have you ever heard of ENZYTE?


I guess you got me on this one, I must have a more sportier model and no need for additives.....stop by....I can prove it...


Weren't you the same one claiming the tires spinning through 3 gears, no defuel, no smoke.....you jumping ship already....sounds like YOU need some ENZYTE.....and a set of balls to go along with it.Edited by: BIG DIPPER

sounds like to me you have found peace and harmony....."My stock Dmax is as smooth as glass and I would never want to do anything to jepordize that. I love my soft shifftin tranny. I love my complete reliability. I love how smooth she accelerates and how smooth she cruises down the highway." http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Throw Up.gif so bronco why are you still beating your gums here.......If you really want to know whos number one in my book then stand in front of a mirror hold up your right hand pull down the first and third finger and look... theres your number one

Earlier quotes from Bronco,


Banks claims you can use all there settings without tranny upgrades or an exaust probe. Maybe this means they make no power?


AND


There dyno charts have been the most mis-leading mis-construed dyno charts in the history of mankind. If you are really only talking about a peak horepower increase of 70-90 then it seems reasonable to not need tranny upgrades or an exaust probe?


No ship jumpin. Just tryin to sort through all of the flag wavin BS. My money pit usually is sitting in my garage needing some new goodies.(66 Bronco) When it comes to my Dmax I like to shop twice and buy once.

I have posted the Six-Gun and Edge Juice w/Attitude results in the power and performance section.

I’m glad to see that some independent testing has been done. People often seem reluctant to believe what the manufacturer of a product will claim, and based on stuff I’ve seen, I don’t blame them. There are a few issues worth looking at here. First, lets compare the peak-to-peak gains that Extreme Diesel measured to the Banks published peak-to-peak numbers. Extreme Diesel measured a stock peak of 239.0 HP @ 2900 RPM and a Level 6 Peak (without SpeedLoader) of 340.3 HP @ 3250 RPM. That is a peak-to-peak gain of 101.3 HP. If you look at the Banks website test results, (http://www.bankspower.com/test_results_AC09.cfm) you will see that we measured a stock peak of 252 HP @ 3000 RPM and a Level 6 Peak (without SpeedLoader) of 322 HP at 3000 RPM, for a gain of 70 HP. Extreme Diesel’s test actually shows a better peak-to-peak gain than the Banks results, by more than 30 HP. I cannot make an accurate comparison of Best Gain results, because Extreme Diesel's charts are not laid out that way.

What about torque? Extreme Diesel’s results show a peak-to-peak gain of only 251.9 lb-ft, while the Banks test shows a gain of 345 lb-ft. Why the discrepancy? Note that the Banks gain is found at 1800 RPM. The Extreme Diesel stock test doesn’t begin to show legitimate data until about 2400 RPM. I am not sure why that is, but it does point out a difference in the test methodology used by Extreme Diesel, Banks, and everyone else out there that runs a dyno. Tests like the one done by Extreme Diesel are what I refer to as an acceleration test. The vehicle is placed on the dyno, brought to a certain RPM in a certain gear (usually direct), and then accelerated through a short test window (Dan, I am assuming this was your method, correct me if I am wrong). There is nothing invalid about this test method. It is a great comparison method, but it does not always give us all the information that we need, because the engine is never really subjected to full load. It is constantly accelerating. We use a method where the engine is run up to a given RPM, held at that RPM for a set period of time (usually between 8 and 15 seconds) while readings are taken, and then more load is applied to pull the engine down to a lower RPM. We usually do these tests in increments of 100 or 200 RPM, starting at or near the engine redline, and ultimately pulling down to below the torque peak. This gives us full load and fully heat saturated readings. A complete test will take anywhere from a 1.5 to up to 5 minutes, depending on the criteria. Any load dyno is capable of runn

Peter


There right <A href="http://mail.wackywack.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4684" target="_blank">here (http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4684&amp;PN=1&amp;TPN=1&amp;get=#47983)</a>...





Mac Edited by: Mackin