Took my LLY to the dealer last week for idle surging and white smoke. They found one of the injectors was bad and replaced it. I pulled a 7k trailer about 500 miles and the surge and white smoke returned. Took it back to the dealer and they found two more injectors that had failed.

I asked if they could replace them all at once and be done with it. The tech said that GM would not allow them to do that because blah, blah, blah....

My concern is that, since three injectors have already bit the dust, what are the chances that the other 5 are going to fail also? I could potentially have to do this 5 more times if they crap out individually. Not my idea of a good time. As it stands now, they will have the truck in the shop for two weeks because the parts are on back-order.

Help!!!

How many miles are on them?
I will be pretty peaved if mine fail anytime soon.

30k and some change. Truck is an 04. Fuel filter changed every 10k.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

According to the TSB, they are supposed to change all 8. If you really wanted to push the issue, you could probably get them to do it.

You could express your feelings to the service manager and try calling GM directly. They may then do it as a customer courtesy to keep you happy and to keep you from trying to lemon law it. I believe the lemon law states that if you bring your vehicle in 3 times for the same complaint in a certain amount of time(how long I don't remember) while you are still in the vehicle warranty, then you can pursue arbitration(lemon law). Most of the time a big corporation will try to avoid this situation at all costs. Just be polite yet ascertive and tell them how you feel about it. What's the worst that will happen? They'll tell you no and your in the same boat your already in.

According to the TSB, they are supposed to change all 8. If you really wanted to push the issue, you could probably get them to do it.
Where is the TSB ?

I understood that it was all 8 only on the LB7's and only the bad ones on the LLY's.

DID they change this while I was not looking?? :D

I just started getting the symptoms of a bad injector, stumble at idle and white smoke. Doesn't do it all the time though.

Can't wait until the tech pops my hood:eek: I guess I'll be buying an injector with my own cash
http://dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6967&stc=1&d=1122656465

Why not get a new set of 8, say 20-40% over. You certainly have the air for it.:D . Then all you need is a cp3.......

I don't have the twins, but it would take me a whole weekend to get my truck back to "stock" form for warranty work.. Worth it? :cool:

There is no problem with your truck that can't be fixed with money:eek: .

Just messin with ya Rob.

gmc, to my knowledge the LLYs do not have a "change all 8" tsb or policy. That tsb is for LB7s with specific injector problems.

Why not get a new set of 8, say 20-40% over. You certainly have the air for it.:D . Then all you need is a cp3.......

I don't have the twins, but it would take me a whole weekend to get my truck back to "stock" form for warranty work.. Worth it? :cool:

There is no problem with your truck that can't be fixed with money:eek: .

Just messin with ya Rob.

I think it would be well worth your time..

On my LB7 I saw the paperwork the dealer was sending to GM... The price for changing the 8 injectors was over 4,000....:eek:

If it's any consolation, about a year ago I had 2 injectors replaced on Blue. No problems since.

I had the #3 injector crap out on me at about 12,000 miles and have had no problems since. I'm now approaching 28,000.

I don't like having known high-failure rate items on my truck, but I don't know what to do about it.

I've got a 2 micron filter, run additive, and I think I'm doing all I can.

If I keep having problems and GM doesn't extend the warranty on LLY injectors, mine will be gone before 100,000.

Why do these injectors go bad?:( It is rediculous so many people have had failures. :mad: Are these things not engineered properly? Gas injectors last forever! What gives? I know my time will soon come for a dealer visit because of an injector failure:rolleyes:

Why do these injectors go bad?:( It is rediculous so many people have had failures. :mad: Are these things not engineered properly? Gas injectors last forever! What gives? I know my time will soon come for a dealer visit because of an injector failure:rolleyes:

One reason the injectors fail early in life is poor lubricity and poor stability of u.s. diesel fuel. Either add a good lubricity additive - like stanadyne lubricity formula - or run a little biodiesel.

Minnesota was supposed to mandate 2% biodiesel blend (b2) at all pumps in july 2005 - did this happen? This is the amount needed to provide good lubricity to diesel #2; I wonder if the duramax diesel mechanics living in minnesota will be a little less busy next year! :)

They tried to mandate b2 here in oregon, but it got shot down by the oil company lobbyists.

jeff

on edit : I have a case of stanadyne lubricity formula -> but found a station that sells biodiesel and now top off their occasionally - I run between 70% and 5% biodiesel and top off at a half tank to stretch it out -> the place that sells biodiesel is 10 miles away , so it's not convenient to me. The truck runs much smoother and quieter with the bio - I wish we had high cetane diesel fuel here in the u.s. - it's sweet!.

dmax lover,

where are you getting biodiesel? we are practically neighbors, I'm in Beaverton just about every day.

I run stanadyne every fillup. When I run out of my current supply I will try some FPPF total power and compare. :)

Biodiesel is sold by sequential biofuels. They have a retail pump at a station along highway 30 - northwest portland, just north of the st. johns bridge. They also have a card-lock in southwest portland. Their website lists locations and current prices -> www.sqbiofuels.com

I would stick with the stanadyne - the fppf total power has no published figures on lubricity enhancement; For example, you need to show that the additive will take worst case fuel and turn it into acceptable fuel (in terms of lubricity). This means taking fuel that tests out in a HFRR lubricity test with a wear scar diameter of 650 micron or so and dropping it down to below 450 microns (which bosch says is max).

New diesel fuel standard sets min wear scar diameter at 520 - so you still need to add a little to get to euro spec levels of lubricity.

Stanadyne and Rotella are the only additives I have seen that meets this benchmark -> and rotella was discontinued, so that leaves only stanadyne.

jeff

jeff,

thanks for the info. the station on se 17th and holgate is relatively close to me. I work in milwaukie so i am in the area frequently.

what "grade" do you use? b20 or b99? I think our d-maxes are approved for b20.

hey and at 12-15 cents a gallon cheaper, why not?:cool:

Where do you find the specs on the diesel additives? I've been running lucas upper cylinder lubricant for some time now with great results, just curious how it stacks up.

Why do these injectors go bad?:( It is rediculous so many people have had failures. :mad: Are these things not engineered properly? Gas injectors last forever! What gives? I know my time will soon come for a dealer visit because of an injector failure:rolleyes:

They are very precisely designed/machined elecro hydrualic valves. They are controlling 23,000 psi of fuel pressure in milliseconds time... they have tight toleranced parts the move under these conditions. It's amazing they can design them to last as long as they do.... in mass production at realtively reasonable cost.

hoot,

i remember you from the**********! why did you switch to Dodge?

Also, does the Cummins have as many injector failures as the Duramax? How about the Powerstroke, if not, how come the Duramax is the only one with these problems?

If injector failures are frequent across the board, then I won't be to discouraged:rolleyes:

I've heard that the newer CRD cummins are starting to have some injector failures. And FORD has had quite a few injector failures with the 6.0 and higher milage 7.3's. You gotta love the EPA, if it wasn't for them we could still be using reliable injection pump systems. You don't hear of the Bosch P7100 failing in the 94-98 12V cummins do you.

I Work At The Dealer
With The Diesel Motors They Have Not Let Us Replace Any Injectors
On The Lly We Have Found That The Are Some Updates
And We Flush The Injectors And The Seem T Be Fine After That
Also Check The Fuel Filter

There Has Been A Redesing For The Injectors
On The Lb7 Also They Have A Policy
200,000k Or 7 Seven Years

There Has Been A Redesing For The Injectors
On The Lb7 Also They Have A Policy
200,000k Or 7 Seven Years
Isn't this only the 2001-2002?

hoot,

i remember you from the**********! why did you switch to Dodge?

Also, does the Cummins have as many injector failures as the Duramax? How about the Powerstroke, if not, how come the Duramax is the only one with these problems?

If injector failures are frequent across the board, then I won't be to discouraged:rolleyes:

No I don't think Dodge is having anywhere near the rate of failure the Dmax is having. I don't know anyone that has had a failure. Yes there are some reports but it's not like there is any significant talk on the Dodge sites of injector failures. The injectors in the Cummins look a lot different than the Dmax injectors. They are Bosch but they are specifically designed for the Cummins. Couple other differences that I could not say are why they seem to be less troublesome:

Injectors are fed through the head by a tapered fitting and the returns are galleys...
http://www.getdieselpower.com/my04dodge_files/600cutaway/images/DSCN4773.jpg

I think Cummins had a chance to work with Bosch since they came into this system a few years after Dmax, to address the durability issue.

And let me tell you, it is a whole lot easier to change injectors in this straight six than to have to dig into that mess of a v8. Even with the newer LLY style external injectors, I had trouble seeing them under all that crap.

So to answer your question, yes I did a little research and decided I wasn't going to be jumping trucks every 100,000 miles and the only way I was going to keep buying diesel was to go Cummins. There is no other choice when you look at the failure rates.

Why only GM? I don't know the answer but I do know they have had major injection system problems from 1994 on up. I was hoping the Dmax, since it was designed by Isuzu would be such a sweet reliable engine. GM fooked it up I think. Just ask Stanadyne about how GM handled the DB4 pump fiasco. My point is, issues arise. When they do on this scale, you better fix it. LLY redesign only made replacing the junk easier. If you look at it, GM saw a huge cost savings in the warranty side if they could make it cheaper an easier to replace them. By not having to open up the valve covers, and having the return lines external, they seemed to be watching out more for themselves than us. If the injectors are reliable why would you spend a fortune redesigning accessability?

More Cummins reasons...

Long skirt pistons..
http://www.getdieselpower.com/my04dodge_files/600cutaway/images/DSCN4786.jpg

Nice fuel filter/water seperator/heater.. Changing the fuel filter is gravy.
http://www.getdieselpower.com/my04dodge_files/600cutaway/images/DSCN4798.jpg

Massive rotating assy... look at the size of the oil filter.
http://www.getdieselpower.com/my04dodge_files/600cutaway/images/DSCN4813.jpg