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: Gelled up today...


Diesel Wanna Be
12-07-2011, 02:50 AM
So today I had a job interview on the west side of St. Louis... 45 miles from my house.

Plugged it in last night, with a 50% bio mix in the tank. Not sure how cold it was overnight, but it was 33 on the mirror when I got in it this morning. Fired right up and was about 110F on the Edge.

Drove over to the interview, getting there early as planned, but 5 miles out started to have issues with it laying over under a load. I was worried about getting there to say the least.

After an hour long interview, I came out with the intention to get to the nearest fuel stop and put 10 gallons of #2 in it (had about a 1/2 tank), which I did...limping it the mile to the fuel station.

It idled while I filled it up and dumped 12 oz of Fuel Service into it. Pulled away and still no power. Wouldn't go over 25 MPH. Pulled into a Christmas tree lot and called a wrecker. They said 45 minute wait for a tow back home.

50 minutes go by and I call them back inquiring where they were. I was told the prior tow had unforeseen "complications" and it would be at LEAST another hour wait before they could get to me, but they would reduce the bill due to my patience and courtesy.

Livid, and wanting to get home after sitting in a parking lot for an hour, I brake torqued it up to 8 PSI of boost. No hesitation or loss of fuel rail pressure. So, I took a chance and hit the road. 70 MPH all the way home, and not a lick of trouble.

Now, here's my thoughts on the gelling, because it DID gel @ B50 mix.

1. It sat plugged in all night, and the under the hood filter stayed warm from the ambient temperature coming from the motor.

2. By the time I got over to the interview, the under hood temps dropped significantly due to the fan airflow.

3. After sitting shut off, the fuel continued to gel in the filter under the hood.

4. The fuel in my filter on the frame rail never gelled or it would have stopped running or refused to go over 25 mph, because there is no ambient heat at the frame rail on a frozen parking lot.


I suspect it's all due to the crappy factory filter with WIF sensor not having enough filter area. Fuel was getting through, but not enough fuel to supply more than idle.

Even though my frame rail filter is 2 Micron, it has much more surface area and thus, may be reduced in flow, but there's enough surface area on the filter to allow enough reduced flow through the filter to power the truck at all loads.

So, I'm contemplating a couple things...

A. A Nicktane adapter and Cat filter.

or

B. This to put on one or both filters, wiring into the SEO port: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Flexible-Block-Heater-Hot-Pad-12v-70watt-/400260897116?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item5d3168995c

LETHAL WEAPON
12-07-2011, 09:44 AM
So today I had a job interview on the west side of St. Louis... 45 miles from my house.

Plugged it in last night, with a 50% bio mix in the tank. Not sure how cold it was overnight, but it was 33 on the mirror when I got in it this morning. Fired right up and was about 110F on the Edge.

Drove over to the interview, getting there early as planned, but 5 miles out started to have issues with it laying over under a load. I was worried about getting there to say the least.

After an hour long interview, I came out with the intention to get to the nearest fuel stop and put 10 gallons of #2 in it (had about a 1/2 tank), which I did...limping it the mile to the fuel station.

It idled while I filled it up and dumped 12 oz of Fuel Service into it. Pulled away and still no power. Wouldn't go over 25 MPH. Pulled into a Christmas tree lot and called a wrecker. They said 45 minute wait for a tow back home.

50 minutes go by and I call them back inquiring where they were. I was told the prior tow had unforeseen "complications" and it would be at LEAST another hour wait before they could get to me, but they would reduce the bill due to my patience and courtesy.

Livid, and wanting to get home after sitting in a parking lot for an hour, I brake torqued it up to 8 PSI of boost. No hesitation or loss of fuel rail pressure. So, I took a chance and hit the road. 70 MPH all the way home, and not a lick of trouble.

Now, here's my thoughts on the gelling, because it DID gel @There's your problem IMO→ B50 mix.
1. It sat plugged in all night, and the under the hood filter stayed warm from the ambient temperature coming from the motor.

2. By the time I got over to the interview, the under hood temps dropped significantly due to the fan airflow.

3. After sitting shut off, the fuel continued to gel in the filter under the hood.

4. The fuel in my filter on the frame rail never gelled or it would have stopped running or refused to go over 25 mph, because there is no ambient heat at the frame rail on a frozen parking lot.


I suspect it's all due to the crappy factory filter with WIF sensor not having enough filter area. Fuel was getting through, but not enough fuel to supply more than idle.

Even though my frame rail filter is 2 Micron, it has much more surface area and thus, may be reduced in flow, but there's enough surface area on the filter to allow enough reduced flow through the filter to power the truck at all loads.

So, I'm contemplating a couple things...

A. A Nicktane adapter and Cat filter.

or

B. This to put on one or both filters, wiring into the SEO port: http://rover.ebay.com/ar/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpt=323837080&adtype=1&size=1x1&type=3&campid=5336116667&toolid=10001 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Flexible-Block-Heater-Hot-Pad-12v-70watt-/400260897116?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item5d3168995c
C. Use straight diesel fuel w/ a good additive and press on....the hell with 50% mix;)


.

Rockin C Racing
12-07-2011, 11:10 AM
Wannabe - Not sure, but it almost sounds like you popped the fuel pressure relief valve. I've had that happen before and it doesn't always set off a check engine light. Sometimes the bio will thicken just enough to make that pop. When you shut the truck off for 5 minutes, it resets and full rail pressure again. I don't think when you topped it off with petro that it had enough time and movement to mix with the B50 where you didn't make it very far down the road, so that tells me it wasn't a gelling issue. I know here locally our over night lows have been in the high 20's with a daytime high in the upper 30's and I haven't had any issues still running B100. Also I do park my truck in a garage overnight, but don't plug it in as the garage temp in the morning when I leave is around 50*. Sorry to hear of your troubles.

Diesel Wanna Be
12-07-2011, 12:07 PM
Will it set a code if it pops the pressure relief valve?

The truck was never shut off after firing it back up to return home from the interview. I just let it sit and idle for an hour.

Diesel Wanna Be
12-07-2011, 01:18 PM
Well, this doesn't make much sense.... Just left to run a 6 mile (each way) errand and the truck ran fine on the way there.

On the way back, it was losing fuel pressure.

Eddysel
12-07-2011, 01:38 PM
It still has too much bio in the fuel. The 2 micron frame filter is the culprit...been there too many times ...stinks!

Rockin C Racing
12-07-2011, 03:51 PM
OK. I thought you shut it off while waiting for the tow truck. Eddy is probably right that it is the 2 micron frame filter.

Diesel Wanna Be
12-07-2011, 04:15 PM
For the $25.00, I think I'm going to try that 70W heater and hose clamp it to the filter and tie it into the lift pump wiring. Wrap it then with some fiberglass insulation to keep the heat in and give it a go.

If it is indeed the filter, that should warm it up enough to allow it to flow through. If it's not, then I have other issues...

Like I think I mentioned, the truck slightly surged over the summer... Might be the fuel pressure valve.

Rockin C Racing
12-09-2011, 12:54 AM
Another thing I don't know if I mentioned to you in previous discussions. Have you removed the fuel cooler mounted in front of the tank? It looks like a trans cooler in the fuel return line. I found that removing that let the return fuel back to the tank be warmer, thus warming the fuel in the tank. I got a connector to thread onto the fuel lines at my local hardware store.

Diesel Wanna Be
12-09-2011, 10:57 AM
No, it's still on there, but I was considering wrapping it with shrink wrap.

I ordered the heater from my first post. Just a tick under $30.00 shipped. I'll hose clamp it to the 2 micron filter, then tap into the wiring on the lift pump. Heater pulls 6 amps. May also shrink wrap some fiberglass insulation to the filter over the heater.

Rockin C Racing
12-09-2011, 01:42 PM
I think that will help. I just went on a 830 mile round trip yesterday (13 1/2 hours) running B90 the entire trip. When I left it was 31* and during my trip the temps got down as low as 20* and as warm as 38*. I made it without issue other than I went through some freezing fog (25* heavy fog) that had about 1/4" of ice build up on my antenna and when I went to transfer fuel from my 55 gallon drum to the truck, there was ice build up on the pump that I had to break free before pumping.

Diesel Wanna Be
12-09-2011, 02:17 PM
Was the 2 micron filter under the truck... Had 0 fuel pressure under the hood on the gauge I have installed there.

Changed out the 2 micron filter and bam, 9 PSI on the gauge.

So if I can keep that filter warm, it *should* theoretically be the first point of restriction, and hopefully the only one.

GoneNomad
12-09-2011, 02:31 PM
...my frame rail filter is 2 Micron...
I assume this is your pre-filter, ahead of the oem filter. (On a van the oem fuel filter is underneath, in front of the fuel tank).

Exactly what filter are you using?

BTW, I think you'll find that 70 watts applied to the relatively small external surface area of that fuel filter will make a HUGE difference - if you insulate it. You could probably wrap it with something, but a one-piece molded sleeve would probably work better (if you have something to use as the outer shell, use spray foam to fill the gap, this way, no seams or tape to come loose).

I've run more than twice that wattage overnight (more than six hours) off the oem starting batteries, and still had no problem starting up in below freezing temps.

Diesel Wanna Be
12-10-2011, 12:05 AM
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb199/onebadgmc/2500HD/IMG_0267.jpg

3528 NAPA from Fleetfilter.com.

coldfusion
12-10-2011, 12:49 AM
Even with your mixed B50, your filter likely "glazed" with bio paraffin wax. However, the temp wasn't that low so it may have been a borderline filter to make matters worse. Engine block heater wont help either.

There is no additive on the market that cuts the paraffin. Only a warm shop or filter change will work. I learned this the hard way on Illinois B11 at -7 degrees. After I filed a complaint with the State, Illinois assured me They say "it's winterized to -25" degrees blah blah blah. However, the dealership where I dropped $200 stated the Duramax filter can't pass the wax - period. That was before the TP3012 filter which now claims "improved winter performance".

I clogged two filters that night en route to Minneapolis. I will never purchase fuel in Illinois ever again because of their "green" fuel. The dealership service manager said to me "that's why we don't have bio up here, the farmers would lynch politicians".

GoneNomad
12-10-2011, 09:27 AM
3528 NAPA from Fleetfilter.com.
Is this your first winter running bio?

After fuel gels when the vehicle is parked overnight, is that fuel then OK if it warms up to say, 50°F before trying to start?

I don't have bio in my van, but it does still have summer fuel in it, and it got down to 17°F last night, though that should not be a problem.

Diesel Wanna Be
12-10-2011, 11:21 AM
Coldfusion is right... It had a skim coat of parafin on the filter when I changed it out.

No, once it hits the filter then comes up to 40F like it did the other day, it is still clogged.

IL gives the oil companies a tax credit for any diesel with over 10% bio mixed, so the entire damn state has 11% bio with all of its fuels. Not only are they reaping the rewards of the tax credit, but, the bio is essentially "cutting" the #2 fuel with a cheaper fuel. They're making out like bandits. And people wonder why this state is right up there with Commiefornia for going bankrupt.

I need to order more filters from Fleetfilter.com, as I spun on the last one yesterday.

coldfusion
12-10-2011, 11:44 AM
The Illinois tax incentive is for "over 10%" which is where the B-11 comes from. So the refineries now have to make special runs just for Illinois which adds cost. How dumb! No worries, pass the cost on to the consumer!

This all gets dreamed up out of the Socialist Republik of Cook County. They don't care about the side effects of bio in the Winter, "it's Winterized! we are so green!" BS, no it's not to a Duramax filter!

As you can tell, I'm still bitter about that incident 3 years ago and having to sleep in an idling pickup at -15 in the middle of nowhere Wisconsin. All because I was careless enough to think Illinois fuel was safe. State fuel standards right? NOT! The next night was -34 and I plugged in at the hotel. Fired right up in the morning (on Minnesota Diesel)! Impressive! The Duramax parked next to me was left idling all night lol I have never experienced cold like that weekend -- 30 below is indescribable!

GoneNomad
12-10-2011, 05:37 PM
Coldfusion is right... It had a skim coat of parafin on the filter when I changed it out.

No, once it hits the filter then comes up to 40F like it did the other day, it is still clogged.
So, the wax is precipitating (maybe not the correct term) out of the oil when temperature drops low enough, and does not recombine upon temperature rise?
But this is not the case with petro-diesel is it?

At least you have a less expensive filter ahead of the oem filter.

Your NAPA 3528 pre-filter is 2 micron, which is tighter than the oem GM/Racor filter, isn't it?

Doesn't that pre-filter tend to make your oem filter last longer?

Are you using the new design Racor fuel filter up front, or a NAPA 3960
http://www.fleetfilter.com/filter/wix-duramax-filters/33960.html
(which I notice is listed as 4 micron)

Is this your first winter running bio?

Since I assume you park overnight at home (evidently outside), have you considered using an inexpensive 120vac heater designed to keep water pipes from freezing?
(in your picture, it looks like you probably could figure out a way wrap something like this around the fuel lines):
Amazon.com: Easy Heat AHB-019 Cold Weather Valve and Pipe Heating Cable, 9 feet: Patio, Lawn & Garden
(some other lengths are just over $25 = free shipping)

GoneNomad
12-10-2011, 06:43 PM
One other question - if the bio in the filter gets cold enough to leave a 'paraffin wax glaze' on the filter, isn't the same thing happening to the fuel everywhere else - in the fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel pump, etc.?

These issues would be enough to definitely cause me to only put biodiesel in a separate tank (which I had previously thought was at least a good idea), so that only heated biodiesel gets into the oem fuel system.

GoneNomad
12-10-2011, 08:03 PM
...or you could also make a provision for that small 12vdc pad heater you just ordered to turn on with a thermostat independently of the fuel pump.

If you're plugging in the block heater anyway, it would be easy to add a small 12vdc power supply like this:
Amazon.com: Kinamax AD-LCD12 LCD Monitors 12V 6A 72W AC Adapter Power Supply: Electronics

to avoid draining the batteries, no matter how long the pad heater is on.

Diesel Wanna Be
12-11-2011, 01:07 AM
Parafin will freeze at 32F, and will not melt until near 100F.

Yes, it's cheaper and basically nullifies the factory filter since it's 2 micron vs factory 4 micron.

Yes, up front it's the new Wix.

Yes, first winter with bio.

Yes, parked outside.

No, will not be buying another heater. It's freezing in the filter, nowhere else.

GoneNomad
12-11-2011, 01:17 AM
Seems like the path is pretty obvious then, spend another ten bucks on a 12vdc power supply so you can keep the pad heater on whenever you plug in the block heater.

It does seem like the only thing that's preventing the paraffin problem from cropping up everywhere else is that the weather hasn't gotten cold enough long enough (yet), that it just shows up first in the filter, mainly because it's more exposed.

I am curious though, when the paraffin separates... is what's left a "better" paraffin-free form of biodiesel, which would be preferable to the normal biodiesel, or is what's left not usable?
What I'm getting at, could you intentionally make the paraffin separate out before you put the biodiesel in your tank?

Maybe you already saw this article:
http://biodieselmagazine.com/articles/7536/flowability-a-complex-issue

I also found this, here:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5367078823/m/6887043143

The important point is not what we call it but what we do to prevent it clogging screens and filters in the vehicle fuel system when it's cold. The vehicle fuel system doesn't care if it's wax, fat, or snot. It's a problem.

Additives can depress the temperature that 'stuff' starts falling out of the otherwise clear fuel by a few degrees. A variety of fuel additives for diesel and biodiesel are commercially available to improve the cold flow properties. Dunn et al. (1996) studied the effects of 12 cold flow additives for petroleum diesel on the cold flow behavior of biodiesel. They concluded that the additives significantly improved the PourPoint of diesel/biodiesel blends but did not affect the CloudPoint greatly. In some climates this might be adequate.

Cold filtering is more effective and less expensive. Cold filtering works best with a B75 to B50 mix diluted with kerosene, stove oil, jet fuel or arctic winter diesel. This achieves the greatest CloudPoint depression by a combination of petroleum dilution with removing saturated methyl esters by cooling the fuel to cause crystallization and then separating the high melting components by settling and filtration. A simple way to do this is leaving the fuel mix storage barrel outside in the cold, let the 'stuff' settle out in the cold, and pump from the clear top layer thorough a 5µ filter and into the vehicle.


This looks like it might be a useful reference guide for winter biodiesel:
http://www.biodiesel.org/hotline/decision%20tree-%20full.pdf
From document page 29:
Paraffin Wax
When the temperature of the fuel is at or below its cloud point, paraffin material can precipitate out and collect on the bottom of the tank. In this situation, filters will often times show no signs of filter plugging which is the tell tale sign. When the filter is brought into a warm location to be examined, the paraffin melts and leaves no evidence. The fuel that is experiencing filter plugging problems will appear hazy. When warmed to room temperature, the paraffin wax will go back into liquid. High levels of paraffin material could be the result of the way ULSD is processed. There is no paraffin in biodiesel. WASA or Wax Anti-Settling Agent additives are used to keep paraffin’s suspended in solution rather than collecting at the bottom of the tank where they can cause filter plugging. Contact your fuel distributor if this you think your filters were plugged by paraffin wax.


http://www.movinout.com/dieselfuelnov.htm
The Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD (S-15)) that we started to receive in mid 2006 has shown some dramatically different cold weather characteristics from the earlier High Sulfur (HSD (S-5000)) and Low Sulfur Fuels (LSD (S-500)).

These new characteristics including higher temperature gelling, change in wax seed crystal, wax dropout, icing, and difficulty in treating have provided some significant challenges to distributors and end users during cold weather.

Due to these new characteristics, users in areas of the US where they have not seen cold weather problems in the past, are now and will continue to see serious issues with gelling, wax dropout, and icing. Here are the main issues known today.

Wax in diesel fuels - Paraffin wax is a natural and important part of diesel fuel. This wax provides several beneficial characteristics including high energy content (Btu's), lubricity, stability, and viscosity. The negative characteristics mainly revolve around cold weather operation and include gelling and something new we refer to as wax dropout.

GoneNomad
12-11-2011, 01:48 AM
Ever heard of this:

USA B-20 WINTERIZER® WDA ULTRA SOY ADDITIVE was specifically formulated for soybean based fuel and bio-diesel blends.
For other bio source fuels such as palm oil or fryer grease see the Bio Source news item
This chemical additive package has been laboratory tested and documented to improve the cold temperature fuel flow ability down to -25 degrees F CFPP in all Bio-diesel blends (including B-20 blends) without the use of No.1-D. The additive also contains a unique “De-Icer” agent to lower the moisture freeze point of moisture in Bio-diesel down to –40F. This special additive product has a pour point of –28F and can be added to B-100 Soy Methyl Ester prior to blending the soy into #2D for efficient rack injection operations down to –20 degrees F ambient.
http://www.amalgamatedinc.com/usa-b20-winterizer.aspx
http://www.amalgamatedinc.com/winter-pro.aspx
http://www.amalgamatedinc.com/winterization-products.aspx

Hmmmmm... Here's a little light reading:
http://amalgamatedinc.com/news.aspx/2010/3/16/biodiesel-issues-with-kerosene
Kerosene (K-1) in ever increasing amounts has been used for years to lower the diesel fuel cloud point and pour point so that it can be used in the coldest extremes. Then in the winter of 2009-10, problems of great proportions became evident. It was found that in some cases when K-1 was added to the B-5 diesel fuel, the 5% bio content fell out of solution and settled to the bottom of vehicle fuel tanks and bulk fuel storage tanks. This resulted in plugged fuel filters and fuel delivery systems...

http://amalgamatedinc.com/news.aspx/2010/1/4/bio-diesel-1
There are many sources used today for Bio Diesel. Bio Diesel Fuel can be produced from a variety of natural crops including rapeseed, soybean, mustard, flax, sunflower, canola, palm oil, hemp, jatropha, waste vegetable oils and even algae. While data exists for various diesel fuel response rates to additives, there is not enough verified information on how diesel fuels will respond with various Bio sources blended into them.

http://www.amalgamatedinc.com/news.aspx/2010/7/6/biodiesel-issues-updated-spring-2010
Amalgamated, Inc. requested Research Laboratories, Inc. in Fort Wayne, IN continue extensive laboratory testing and thus far results have revealed that the amount of K-1 blended with the B-5 is not a problem. To prove this, straight K-1 was blended with bio from several sources. Distilled soy and traditional soy along with canola oil, tallow and palm oil were used to blend a diesel fuel with B-5 content (K-1 = 95%, bio = 5%). Blends were tested at extreme temperatures over an extended period of time. While testing has not revealed any issues with K-1, it has shown the dramatic difference between sources of the 5% bio content. Also shown is that precipitation, though initially present at extreme temperatures, increases over time.
- The traditional soy did not precipitate out of the 95% K-1 fuel but the distilled soy biodiesel did show some fall out over the 14 day test period in storage at extreme temperatures.
- The canola biodiesel showed minor precipitation out of the 95% K-1 fuel during the 14 day test period at extreme temperatures.
- Both the tallow and the palm oil showed significant fall out of the 95% K-1 blended fuel at temperatures above the cloud point of the fuel.
In conjunction with the testing of the bio blends with 95% K-1, Amalgamated, Inc. developed custom formulated biodiesel wax dispersing additives that prevented precipitation in most of the biodiesel products. The traditional soy and distilled soy biodiesel products along with the canola biodiesel and the tallow biodiesel products had no precipitation with Amalgamated's custom formulated additives at extremely low temperatures over the extended time period. The palm oil showed significantly reduced precipitation with the custom formulated biodiesel wax dispersing additives from Amalgamated.

Eddysel
12-11-2011, 04:11 PM
I kept a 50 gallon barrel of b-100 in my barn over the winter (2009). In the spring when the temps were nice and warm the bio was useable. There was approximately a 1" layer of white stuff in the bottom of the barrel. It was very waxy.

LETHAL WEAPON
12-11-2011, 04:44 PM
Hey fellas......what is wrong with just using regular diesel fuel with a good additive and not really worry anything. For example last year I was Deluth MN in January visiting family.....it was cold as a MF and all I ran was diesel and Howes fuel additive with no problems gelling or starting...I just plugged the truck up and she fired right off........just because a fuel has the word BIO in it that's doesnt mean shit........your government will tell use anything too make a dollar

Rockin C Racing
12-11-2011, 05:50 PM
Lethal - to answer your question in short is $$$$$. When petro diesel is around $4 per gallon and you can home brew for around $1. That is what we are talking about is home brew.

LETHAL WEAPON
12-11-2011, 05:55 PM
Lethal - to answer your question in short is $$$$$. When petro diesel is around $4 per gallon and you can home brew for around $1. That is what we are talking about is home brew.

Oh ok.....my bad

GoneNomad
12-11-2011, 07:02 PM
I kept a 50 gallon barrel of b-100 in my barn over the winter (2009). In the spring when the temps were nice and warm the bio was useable. There was approximately a 1" layer of white stuff in the bottom of the barrel. It was very waxy.
Yep. Your experience is consistent with what I linked to above. Ironically it sounds like the easiest way to get that stuff out is to simply expose the biodiesel to cold temperatures. I suspect that B100 treated that way may actually be better for the engine than if that waxy substance is not removed.
Is it possible that waxy substance is residual "soap" (for lack of a better term) that has not been removed by the washing process?


Since it was easy to miss in all that other stuff, here this is again:

The important point is not what we call it but what we do to prevent it clogging screens and filters in the vehicle fuel system when it's cold. The vehicle fuel system doesn't care if it's wax, fat, or snot. It's a problem.

Additives can depress the temperature that 'stuff' starts falling out of the otherwise clear fuel by a few degrees. A variety of fuel additives for diesel and biodiesel are commercially available to improve the cold flow properties. Dunn et al. (1996) studied the effects of 12 cold flow additives for petroleum diesel on the cold flow behavior of biodiesel. They concluded that the additives significantly improved the PourPoint of diesel/biodiesel blends but did not affect the CloudPoint greatly. In some climates this might be adequate.

Cold filtering is more effective and less expensive. Cold filtering works best with a B75 to B50 mix diluted with kerosene, stove oil, jet fuel or arctic winter diesel. This achieves the greatest CloudPoint depression by a combination of petroleum dilution with removing saturated methyl esters by cooling the fuel to cause crystallization and then separating the high melting components by settling and filtration. A simple way to do this is leaving the fuel mix storage barrel outside in the cold, let the 'stuff' settle out in the cold, and pump from the clear top layer thorough a 5µ filter and into the vehicle.

Simple, easy, effective, and economical.


And here's more from that same link (http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5367078823/m/6887043143):

Anti-gel explained:

Wax forms plate like structures (flat) and AMSOIL Cold Flow breaks those up, more like strings, so fuel can flow through. It modifies the wax crystals to allow the fuel to pass through filters, and prevent premature plugging due to gel. It also works well with biodiesel blends as well. Biodiesel has horrible cold temperature properties in general, and the use of a biodiesel-compatible product will help lower the point at which the fuel clouds, or begins to gel. Biodiesel or B100 does not contain paraffin since it is not petroleum based. When B100 gets cold crystals do appear and they act like wax in that they stick together and are large enough to plug filters. These crystals form sooner or at higher temperatures and are larger in size in B100 than in regular diesel fuel. Biodiesel is defined as mono-alkyl esters of long chain fatty acids derived from vegetable oils or animal fats which conform to ASTM D6751 specifications for use in diesel engines. The saturated compounds in the Biodiesel form the crystals that plug filters. When they form they are larger than diesel wax crystals. Most anti-gels, including AMSOIL's, work best on biodiesel fuels B20 and less.

The key to messing with paraffin wax gel is to disrupt it from agglomerating together into a “glob” that is big enough to plug a filter and or fuel line. A copolymer chemical with molecular chains similar in size and distribution to paraffin co-crystalize with the wax and disrupt the crystal formation, thereby allowing your fuel to continue to flow through your fuel filter and keep you on the road.

As diesel fuel cools you will notice a white haze or cloud in the fuel. This usually happens around +10 degrees F. but can happen at higher or lower temperatures depending on fuel characteristics. The white cloud or haze is caused by wax crystals precipitating (coming out of solution) out of the fuel and becomes visible. When fuel warms above the Cloud Point of the fuel, the white appearance will disappear as wax crystals dissolve back into the fuel. The use of an anti-gel usually does not change the Cloud Point of a fuel, and if it does it is usually only by a few degrees. There are however some Cloud Point depressants that can significantly reduce the Cloud Point of a fuel. Cloud Point depressants will adversely affect anti-gels or Pour Point Depressants, however. Anti-gels typically affect the CFPP (cold filter plugging point) and Pour Points of a fuel. Anti-gels work on the wax crystals in the fuel. As the wax crystals form or come out of solution, the anti-gel will modify the wax crystals so they are smaller, will not stick together and will continue to flow through the filter in much lower temperatures than untreated fuel.



This: http://www.biodiesel.org/hotline/A_A%20Biodiesel%20Blend%20Handling%20Guide.pdf also states that the waxy stuff isn't paraffin:

Paraffin Wax
When the temperature of the fuel is at or below its cloud point, paraffin material can precipitate out and collect on the bottom of the tank. In this situation, filters will often times show no signs of filter plugging which is the tell tale sign. When the filter is brought into a warm location to be examined, the paraffin melts and leaves no evidence. The fuel that is experiencing filter plugging problems will appear hazy. When warmed to room temperature, the paraffin wax will go back into liquid. High levels of paraffin material could be the result of the way ULSD is processed. There is no paraffin in biodiesel. WASA or Wax Anti-Settling Agent additives are used to keep paraffin’s suspended in solution rather than collecting at the bottom of the tank where they can cause filter plugging. Contact your fuel distributor if this you think your filters were plugged by paraffin wax.

The main point is that although it isn't paraffin, what matters is preventing it from forming, or getting rid of it if it does.

From the info on the Almalgamated website:
http://www.amalgamatedinc.com/usa-b20-winterizer.aspx
http://amalgamatedinc.com/news.aspx/2010/1/4/bio-diesel-1
it's now clear to me that normal petro-diesel anti-gel additives probably won't be nearly as effective with biodiesel.
They may be "compatible" (as the label will indicate) but that doesn't mean they will help all that much.
So the anti-gel additive must be designed specifically for biodiesel.
Also, some of the references they provide indicates that different biodiesel feed stocks result in different cold weather behavior, some worse, some better, and ideally the additive should be tailored to a specific biodiesel blend.

GoneNomad
12-11-2011, 07:33 PM
FYI: here's the 17-page Biodiesel Handling Guide

and the 224-page Biodiesel Troubleshooting Decision Tree:
A Guide to Assist in Root Cause Determination
(which also includes the 17-page Biodiesel Handling Guide)

and also the 25-page Biodiesel Safety and Best Management Practices for Small-Scale Noncommercial Use and Production (which is mainly about small-scale production, but also goes into cold weather problems)

Eddysel
12-11-2011, 07:44 PM
There is actually a process called "cold filtering" in the bio-diesel world.

The residual buildup could be soap. Although my bio tests better than astm standards there is still some ppm's of soap left behind.

GoneNomad
12-11-2011, 08:36 PM
Yep, Ed, I think you're right.

Here are a few more links:
http://www.biodiesel.org/cold/
Biodiesel Cold Weather Blending Study
http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/20050728_gen-354.pdf

Here's another example of biodiesel-specific anti-gel additives (unfortunately in the UK)

http://www.biofuelsystems.com/products.htm
Wintron® XC30 is a pour point depressant formulated specifically for biodiesel.
It is a blend of styrene copolymer esters in a 2% toluene base.
It is a viscosity modifier that reduces the tendency of viscosity to increase as the fuel is cooled. This alters
the low temperature crystallization process - lowering the temperature at which biodiesel is able to flow and
lowering the temperature at which wax crystals become large enough to block the pores of the fuel filter.
http://www.biofuelsystems.com/other/wintronxc30.pdf
http://www.biofuelsystems.com/other/wintronxc40.pdf
Wintron Synergy® is a pour point depressant formulated specifically for biodiesel.
Wintron Synergy® contains polymethacrylate compounds in a mineral oil base. It is a viscosity modifier
that reduces the tendency of viscosity to increase as the fuel is cooled. This alters the low temperature
crystallization process - lowering the temperature at which biodiesel is able to flow and lowering the
temperature at which wax crystals become large enough to block the pores of the fuel filter.
http://www.biofuelsystems.com/other/wintron_synergy.pdf

This info is useful, and makes it clear what to look for in a biodiesel-specific anti-gel additive, even if buying these specific products isn't practical.

GoneNomad
12-12-2011, 04:33 AM
Here's the "money chart" from page 3 of the Biodiesel Cold Weather Blending Study
http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/20050728_gen-354.pdf

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=124825&stc=1&d=1323682459

Hmmmm... I don't think I want to make biodiesel from tallow.

Be sure to check out the fuel pressure drop charts on page 4 & 5.


Biodiesel B-100 Cold Flow Improver (anti-gel)
http://www.doctordiesel.com/index_files/page0004.htm
Case of 12 — 32 oz. bottles $248 (treats 2,250 gallons)
http://www.doctordiesel.com/Newsletter2-BiodieselAntigel.pdf
In general additives that work for petroleum diesel do not work for biodiesel. Likewise, a true biodiesel additive has almost no effect on petroleum diesel. Our additive is extremely cost effective because so little is used. For example, 1 quart will treat 185 gallons of pure B-100 biodiesel.
http://www.doctordiesel.com/datasheetB100.pdf

I certainly hope they sell single quart bottles. I wouldn't want to just take their word for it with a $248 case of 12 bottles.
What's curious about this is the shipping is FOB New Jersey, but "Doctordiesel" is in Klamath Falls, OR (looks like the address may be a mail box) so I would have to think this stuff, or other additives that work just as well for biodiesel, is readily available, though not at the local AutoZone or WalMart.

Diesel Wanna Be
12-12-2011, 10:42 AM
Here's the "money chart" from page 3 of the Biodiesel Cold Weather Blending Study
http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/20050728_gen-354.pdf

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=124825&stc=1&d=1323682459

Hmmmm... I don't think I want to make biodiesel from tallow.

Be sure to check out the fuel pressure drop charts on page 4 & 5.


Biodiesel B-100 Cold Flow Improver (anti-gel)
http://www.doctordiesel.com/index_files/page0004.htm
Case of 12 — 32 oz. bottles $248 (treats 2,250 gallons)
http://www.doctordiesel.com/Newsletter2-BiodieselAntigel.pdf
In general additives that work for petroleum diesel do not work for biodiesel. Likewise, a true biodiesel additive has almost no effect on petroleum diesel. Our additive is extremely cost effective because so little is used. For example, 1 quart will treat 185 gallons of pure B-100 biodiesel.
http://www.doctordiesel.com/datasheetB100.pdf

I certainly hope they sell single quart bottles. I wouldn't want to just take their word for it with a $248 case of 12 bottles.
What's curious about this is the shipping is FOB New Jersey, but "Doctordiesel" is in Klamath Falls, OR (looks like the address may be a mail box) so I would have to think this stuff, or other additives that work just as well for biodiesel, is readily available, though not at the local AutoZone or WalMart.

They don't. Sell by the case only. I'm not paying that kind of money to "try" it.

Most of this stuff for B100 is snake oil. Already tried what I could buy in 12 oz containers or less.

GoneNomad
12-12-2011, 12:51 PM
They don't. Sell by the case only. I'm not paying that kind of money to "try" it.

Most of this stuff for B100 is snake oil. Already tried what I could buy in 12 oz containers or less.
Maybe a lot of them are selling snake oil, but I don't believe they all are.

http://www.amalgamatedinc.com/about-us.aspx

Without additive:
http://www.amalgamatedinc.com/images/gallery/3-23-10%20030.jpg

With additive:
http://www.amalgamatedinc.com/images/gallery/5-11-10%20020.jpg

http://www.amalgamatedinc.com/news.aspx/2010/8/4/b100-biodiesel-manufacturers-and-marketers
http://www.amalgamatedinc.com/news.aspx/2010/7/6/biodiesel-issues-updated-spring-2010

And anything is worth a try, if you can buy one bottle.
Amalgamated, Inc.
6211 Discount Drive
Fort Wayne, IN 46818
(260) 489-2549
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=124832&stc=1&d=1323712811

Diesel Wanna Be
12-12-2011, 01:30 PM
Amalgamated is sending a few oz sample. The OWNER of the company specifically told me that there is NO product on the market that will keep B100 liquid below 26F. Their product will only keep B20 liquid to 0F degrees.

Again... Nothing out there, been there, researched that...

Cost per gallon on the Amalgomated is $70.00 per 2.5 gallons, which will treat between 100 and 500 gallons of bio, depending on feedstock and means of processing.

There's three things you can do... Reduce the Bio %, heat the entire fuel system, or stockpile and suck off the top of the drum what's liquid.

GoneNomad
12-12-2011, 03:26 PM
Here's another bio anti-gel from a legit company:
http://www.powerservice.com/aeba/
http://www.powerservice.com/images/products/aeba.jpg
Two 2.5-Gallon treats 2,500 Gallons
Have you tried this?


And, the "Wintron additive" that I mentioned here: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4456215&postcount=32
gets a pretty high recommendation here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html
Wintron XC30: "Wintron XC30 is specifically formulated for biodiesel. It is not EVA-based. EVAs (ethylene vinyl acetate copolymers) are a class of compounds used as pour point depressants for petroleum diesel. I have seen various brands marketed as 'compatible with biodiesel' -- they may be compatible and lower the pour point a little, but they really aren't very good at all... Wintron really does work... There are still some types of biodiesel that can't be winterised, such as tallow biodiesel and palm oil biodiesel due to the fact they are so saturated -- double bonds are needed to modify the viscosity and pour point etc. However, for the great majority of biodiesel fuels, heaters really aren't necessary (other than for extremely cold climates) if Wintron is used."

We tested Wintron X30, and yes, it really does work (see photograph below). Biodieselers in the US tested Arctic Express apparently with good results. We have no independent reports on Lubrizol's product, but Lubrizol is a reputable company and their biodiesel antigel is likely to be effective.

Wintron is available in the US, here (and maybe elsewhere): http://haventrading.com/page18.html
for $18.50 per liter (but they're charging $29 for shipping - maybe it's a HazMat?)


From the same link
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html
Winterized biodiesel

Some people find their WVO biodiesel starts to gel at around 4-5 deg C (40 deg F). This is because any saturated fats/oils in the WVO will crystallise (solidify) at higher temperatures than unsaturated fats and oils, and separate out, clogging the filter. That includes tallow, lard, palm oil, etc.

To make WVO biodiesel for winter, heat the oil first, then cool it to near freezing point; the saturated fats will crystallise out and sink to the bottom. Use the clear oil off the top to make winter biodiesel, keep the stuff at the bottom for summer. But even this "winterized" biodiesel still won't go much below -5 deg C (23 deg F) without gelling.



And here's yet another link:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/419605551/m/9761095512
which has this link to the ultimate heated fuel tank system
http://www.b100wh.com/winterb100.html

Let's face it, this approach does make sense since there's plenty of waste heat available when the engine is running.

Diesel Wanna Be
12-13-2011, 02:54 PM
Hey GN, I'm going up to check on a new source of oil here in Fairview Heights...

If it pans out, I'm going to give up to the source I have in Union, MO. You interested?

GoneNomad
12-13-2011, 05:28 PM
Hey GN, I'm going up to check on a new source of oil here in Fairview Heights...

If it pans out, I'm going to give up to the source I have in Union, MO. You interested?

Union is almost fifty miles from South County.:eek:
A hundred mile round trip for WVO?

Have you been driving all the way from Illinois to Union for WVO?

How often do you have to pick it up?

Diesel Wanna Be
12-13-2011, 05:51 PM
Pick it up once every 3-4 weeks... 45 gallons of oil that titrates to 5. Worth the trip for me... May not be for you. Add on 30 miles from SoCo to Belleville.

Rockin C Racing
12-13-2011, 10:11 PM
Several years ago I tried the Wintron and it did work really well. Problem was it wasn't cost effective at that time. The only place I found it at that time to buy was in England and it ended up costing around $70 for a bottle that treated 100 gallons. Therefore raising my production cost significantly.

GoneNomad
12-13-2011, 10:55 PM
Several years ago I tried the Wintron and it did work really well. Problem was it wasn't cost effective at that time. The only place I found it at that time to buy was in England and it ended up costing around $70 for a bottle that treated 100 gallons. Therefore raising my production cost significantly.
At least this vendor: http://haventrading.com/page18.html is in North America. They show X-30 1 liter bottle for $18.50 + $29 for shipping,
or $65.50 + $36 shipping for a 4-liter jug.

http://haventrading.com/
Rapid City, Manitoba Canada
phone: 204-826-2120

GoneNomad
12-13-2011, 10:56 PM
Several years ago I tried the Wintron and it did work really well. Problem was it wasn't cost effective at that time. The only place I found it at that time to buy was in England and it ended up costing around $70 for a bottle that treated 100 gallons. Therefore raising my production cost significantly.
At least this vendor: http://haventrading.com/page18.html is in North America.
They show Wintron X-30 1 liter bottle for $18.50 + $29 for shipping,
or $65.50 + $36 shipping for a 4-liter jug.

So if you were paying $70 for a 1-liter bottle, that's less than half that price if buying the 4-liter jug.

http://haventrading.com/
Rapid City, Manitoba Canada
phone: 204-826-2120

I would have to think if this stuff is so good, there would be a US distributor.
But it is a niche product, and like the Espar products - most of the sellers are in Canada where it's cold.



This vendor mentions at the bottom of this page that they provide samples for a modest freight charge.
http://www.enertechlabs.com/biodiesel_additives.php
Their site seems a little on the iffy side though. It hasn't been updated since Jan. 2009

Toll Free: 800-759-2080
sales@enertechlabs.com