I read EPA is going to do this and going to do that........ I heard horror stories of 10000-12000 fines ......

I looked them up - 3750.00 EPA fine..........

Is any one policing this and doing it....... and/or is it all a scare tactic?

Has anyone taken their truck in for Warranty issues after a Delete?
I know we are being told warranty will be void.........but i have heard that all the way back to my 1987 buick grand national......... and they wtill did my warranty work on tuned/modded vehicles....... Had no problems on my 2008 2500 suburban either.....

Looking for feedback on this.....

Thanks ALL

More and more states are requiring that all emission systems be in place and working, or you can't pass and won't be able to get a tag.
My dealer told me that warranty issues are case by case. If you tune an engine and then have a rod hanging out the side, no warranty. But if you have issues not related to tuning or modifying, no problem. But the LAST thing he told me: "I wouldn't modify anything, just to be on the safe side".

In PA we are Emissions - Diesel exempt

In many of the states that do have emissions inspections at all, it's only in certain metro areas that are in violation of EPA air quality standards.
Plenty of states have no statewide emissions inspections.
A lot of states have no "safety" inspections either.

In PA we are Emissions - Diesel exempt

Thank heaven for small miracles :)


Sent from my Autoguide iPhone app

So has anyone ever heard of anyone getting fined for a delete on a personal use vehicle?

Not a commercial for hire vehicle........

Nope. Couple of my coworkers who have or had diesels are trying to convince me to do the deletes. They did. No hassles. We live in rural Oregon and Washington... no vehicle inspections out here. Maybe in the Portland/Vancouver metro areas (they've had DEQ stations for a long time... not sure if inspection is applicable to HD diesel trucks now... they used to be exempt).

For me, it's a fire safety thing. Monastery Complex Fire this summer near Goldendale, WA was caused by a truck's "malfunctioning exhaust equipment" (that's all the media would say)... how much you wanna bet it was a DPF or cat that failed? Our new place is 20 miles from where that fire originated. The cheatgrass gets *really* dry in summer. I have 600 acres of family property to maintain, and this truck is my primary means of getting around on said property. Forest Service did a test... result? Yes, DPF regens are a fire hazard. I've posted a link to that study a few places on this board.

Folks out here are pretty rational... I'm guessing the LEOs in this area would rather I stiff the EPA than make them & the Fire Dept respond to a wildfire call.

Originally, I was gonna wait 'til the truck was out of warranty. Given the fire risks, I may opt to delete the DPF and cat much sooner than that. Hell, sounds like the DPF and cat make up 90% of the warranty issues people have on these trucks anyway. The Duramax engine core and Allison transmission seem to be very long-lived, provided you don't run stupid power levels via a tuner. Not a problem. This truck has plenty of grunt for my purposes, so a stock tune with emissions delete would be just fine.

Originally, I was gonna wait 'til the truck was out of warranty. Given the fire risks, I may opt to delete the DPF and cat much sooner than that. Hell, sounds like the DPF and cat make up 90% of the warranty issues people have on these trucks anyway. The Duramax engine core and Allison transmission seem to be very long-lived, provided you don't run stupid power levels via a tuner. Not a problem. This truck has plenty of grunt for my purposes, so a stock tune with emissions delete would be just fine.

I am not looking for wild tune ...power is good now ..looking for better mileage........ although friends run wild tune and drive modestly for best mileage and best tow mileage........ may need fuel pump if you do it as well....

So has anyone ever heard of anyone getting fined for a delete on a personal use vehicle?

When my dad got all the emissions stuff deleted off his 09 LMM when they did his turbo back 5", the place that did it warned that there is a $10K fine for the owner of the truck and a $50K fine for the business that removed the emissions equipment. At the time I personally took it as a crock of horse crap but because of that my dad gets nervous when we pull piggyback to the Dunes as we are 6' over legal length limit. He worries that if a DPS or ADOT guy starts snooping around he will figure it out. This is the first I have read about anyone else having even heard of this.

When my dad got all the emissions stuff deleted off his 09 LMM when they did his turbo back 5", the place that did it warned that there is a $10K fine for the owner of the truck and a $50K fine for the business that removed the emissions equipment. At the time I personally took it as a crock of horse crap but because of that my dad gets nervous when we pull piggyback to the Dunes as we are 6' over legal length limit. He worries that if a DPS or ADOT guy starts snooping around he will figure it out. This is the first I have read about anyone else having even heard of this. But despite the ominous threat of a $50K fine hanging over their head, they went ahead and did the work to his exhaust system, right? I will say that as far as the last part, that might be one reason to keep the goofy looking oem bugle style tip (which happens to be 5" dia. at the outlet). If someone doesn't want DPS or DOT to start snooping, the first thing to do is, don't install something obvious that might attract attention. That said, his fears are probably overblown.

Originally, I was gonna wait 'til the truck was out of warranty. Given the fire risks, I may opt to delete the DPF and cat much sooner than that. Hell, sounds like the DPF and cat make up 90% of the warranty issues people have on these trucks anyway. The Duramax engine core and Allison transmission seem to be very long-lived, provided you don't run stupid power levels via a tuner. Not a problem. This truck has plenty of grunt for my purposes, so a stock tune with emissions delete would be just fine.
EFILive doesn't work with the LML. I guess that H&S (or whatever it is) handheld tuner will do what you need, although your tune choices are fairly limited.

EFILive doesn't work with the LML. I guess that H&S (or whatever it is) handheld tuner will do what you need, although your tune choices are fairly limited.

Yes, I would use one of the H&S-based kits, unless EFILive steps up to the plate between now and next summer. I don't need a lot of tune choices. I'm doing this first for fire safety, second for simplicity/reliability, and third for fuel savings... hence all I need is a "stock" tune or setting with the emissions delete, which the H&S provides.

Right now, if someone wants a highly tunable performance vehicle, I'd say the LML is not the right choice. If someone needs a good utility rig, it's a very good choice (minus the emissions crap).

If you look up the EPA fines they are 3750.00 for vehicles after 2009 and 2500 for before.....

I heard the mythical 10,000 as well.........

But question remains........ Does anyone know anyone or has anyone been fined for a delete?????

Yea unfortunately for the lml its all
Or nothin they don't have jus a dpf delete where
U can jus get the pipe. I wish......

I just copied and pasted this from the forth generation electronics section. Wondering what this will mean for H&S tuners and the LML.

Hp tuners removing dpf delete ability

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just got confirmation today that HPT is removing the ability to turn the dpf on/off in their software. Below is the email:

"
Removed because of pressure from EPA

Thanks,
William Henn
HP Tuners LLC.
www.hptuners.com
"

They keep deleting my posts about it on the hp tuners forum, which is super-professional, lol, but here is another email I got from them:

"Correct, bottom line is we’d like to stay in business so we have removed it from our software and at this point don’t see it being put back in anytime soon.

Thanks,
William Henn
HP Tuners LLC.
www.hptuners.com

From: support@hptuners.com [mailto:bill@hptuners.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: DPF on/off gone in newer betas

Correct, bottom line is we’d like to stay in business so we have removed it from our software and at this point don’t see it being put back in anytime soon.

Thanks,
William Henn
HP Tuners LLC.
www.hptuners.com

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 3:05 PM
To: 'support@hptuners.com'
Subject: RE: DPF on/off gone in newer betas

You’re saying that this feature is not going to be available in upcoming releases of your software?

That must be why my posts were deleted, I bet you don’t want that to get out.

Damn.....

I just copied and pasted this from the forth generation electronics section. Wondering what this will mean for H&S tuners and the LML.

Hp tuners removing dpf delete ability

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just got confirmation today that HPT is removing the ability to turn the dpf on/off in their software. Below is the email:

"
Removed because of pressure from EPA

Thanks,
William Henn
HP Tuners LLC.
www.hptuners.com (http://www.hptuners.com)
"

They keep deleting my posts about it on the hp tuners forum, which is super-professional, lol, but here is another email I got from them:

"Correct, bottom line is we’d like to stay in business so we have removed it from our software and at this point don’t see it being put back in anytime soon.

Thanks,
William Henn
HP Tuners LLC.
www.hptuners.com (http://www.hptuners.com)

From: support@hptuners.com [mailto:bill@hptuners.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: DPF on/off gone in newer betas

Correct, bottom line is we’d like to stay in business so we have removed it from our software and at this point don’t see it being put back in anytime soon.

Thanks,
William Henn
HP Tuners LLC.
www.hptuners.com (http://www.hptuners.com)

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 3:05 PM
To: 'support@hptuners.com'
Subject: RE: DPF on/off gone in newer betas

You’re saying that this feature is not going to be available in upcoming releases of your software?

That must be why my posts were deleted, I bet you don’t want that to get out.

So i wonder will they still offer support to those they already sold to?

In PA we are Emissions - Diesel exempt

The same here in Md;)

The same here in Md;)

Emissions exempt doesn't matter about the EPA. It just means you don't have to do emissions testing on a yearly basis. If you remove the DPF the EPA can fine you (not saying they will though but they can).

there will be a time when all states test cars and trucks. The Feds will push for this, and withhold funds to get what they want.

there will be a time when all states test cars and trucks. The Feds will push for this, and withhold funds to get what they want.

Here in SE Wisconsin any 07 and newer diesel has to pass emissions testing just like gas vehicles. The test is a requirement for vehicle registration.

what i don't understand is how the hell in one county/state can be exempt but go across the line to another county/state you have to be tested......How the hell is the air any different in the county/state that gets tested:confused:

what i don't understand is how the hell in one county/state can be exempt but go across the line to another county/state you have to be tested......How the hell is the air any different in the county/state that gets tested:confused:

That, my friend, is the problem with politiks. Rules are based on some bureaucrat's personal sense of what should be, regardless of whether that makes any sense in reality.

This is why I think fewer is better when it comes to ignorant, unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats (which the EPA is full of).

if the program is made for off road use how can they make it stick? Company has no control of the way it's used

if the program is made for off road use how can they make it stick? Company has no control of the way it's used
why would the Feds care about that? The facts are that even if sold as "off road use only" the majority are used on street driven vehicles. Stop the manufacturers from making the items with threats and fines, and you don't have to worry about the end-user anymore.

Here in Pennsylvania, there are no emissions testing for inspection. I moded the hell out of my 2007 LMM. I'm keeping my LML stock, in fear that the regulations could be changed in the next year or two. Plus I like having a warranty. But, I do agree, there is no standardization when it come to the laws county by county and state by state.

there will be a time when all states test cars and trucks. The Feds will push for this, and withhold funds to get what they want.


This is what I'm afraid of.

if the program is made for off road use how can they make it stick?
Because, believe it or not, just declaring something to be for "off-road use only" does not gain the owner a free pass, even if that is actually a true statement.
There are also EPA regs for off-road vehicles, but the point that matters as far as the EPA is concerned, is under what certification the vehicle was manufactured, not how it's being used.
State and local regulations are more pertinent to most owners, and they are a different matter, especially in terms of enforcement & consequences.


there will be a time when all states test cars and trucks. The Feds will push for this, and withhold funds to get what they want.
This is what I'm afraid of.
While anything is possible in the future, emissions testing has typically been implemented as just one of the responses to air quality being non-compliant with EPA standards ("Nonattainment Areas"). When the non-compliance occurs, the state has a variety of other options that can be implemented to remedy the "Nonattainment" (e.g.: power plant emissions controls). It is generally easier for a state that already requires a vehicle safety inspection to add emissions testing, than it is for a state that does not have any inspection at all. This is one reason why you see emissions testing in some states but not others, and in some counties (usually the metro areas) in the same state, but not in others. Some areas that have implemented dedicated "real" emissions testing (sniffer testing with the vehicle on rollers) in recent years have subsequently backed off from that (e.g.: Missouri), first to OBD-reading, and then in some cases, down to nothing, while others have started including diesel vehicles in existing emissions testing that excluded diesels in the past. A lot of this has to do with the air quality in the affected areas. Generally, except in the usual suspects (totalitarian communist states like California), emissions testing is likely to be confined to counties surrounding major metro areas, especially those that have wind patterns that tend to cause pollution to stagnate (e.g.: Chattanooga).

EPA has this page that goes into detail about the "Nonattainment Areas": http://www.epa.gov/airquality/greenbk/
'Areas of the country where air pollution levels persistently exceed the national ambient air quality standards may be designated "nonattainment." '

Maybe this helps explain why the hodge-podge exists.

epa is gay