I didn't buy an LML because of how few of performance parts there are for it that and the LML doesn't seem like too much of an upgrade over my LMM.

Are there any rumors at all what the next Dmax might be? Will it be 440/850? or just looking to see if I should wait for the next Dmax. But after seeing the new colorado I don't even know if they next generation silverado is gonna look good

When you tow with the LML you will find a big difference in power and more importantly ,stability. The LML platform is much stronger than the LMM. My 07 LMM was great, but my 2011 LML feels way stronger and gets better fuel mileage by 2 mpg. Take a heavy trailer ,tow it up some good grades and you will be pleasantly surprised. You can wait a year or 2 for the new body, but like you say, i am worried it is going to look like the rounded Colorado:eek:, or worse.I'm hoping it looks awesome, i get a new one every 3 years. If it looks anything like the new Colorado i will keep the LML. If it looks good ya buy one ,if not you can always get one of the last LML's.

I'd agree, the LML and the platform it sits it is a whole new class of truck. Truly an impressive feeling and pulling truck. The next gen DMax I hear from internet info (however reliable it is I do not know) is rumored to grow to a 6.9L monster and I'm betting will be capable of a 550/1000 tune, not that they will give it that big of a tune out of the box, but eventually will probably end up there if I were to guess. We don't yet know what the new 6.7PSD is capable of power wise yet, but I bet GM will have no trouble whats so ever stomping out that PSD with the next Duramax. I'd almost put a guarentee on it,lol. Whatever GM has up its sleeve for the next gen trucks and powertains, i'm sure it will be impressive.

Whats in store for the next Dmax?
Flame me all you want, but the truth will likely be:
Reduced sales due to higher cost of the Duramax option, and the price of diesel fuel (and gas) continuing to rise,
as the economy continues to get weaker, which will start to become apparent late next summer, and become very plainly apparent right after the election next year.
For some people, none of this matters. But at some point, it will for almost everyone.

Whats in store for the next Dmax?
Flame me all you want, but the truth will likely be:
Reduced sales due to higher cost of the Duramax option, and the price of diesel fuel (and gas) continuing to rise,
as the economy continues to get weaker, which will start to become apparent late next summer, and become very plainly apparent right after the election next year.
For some people, none of this matters. But at some point, it will for almost everyone.

Sad but a true point.

Whats in store for the next Dmax?
Flame me all you want, but the truth will likely be:
Reduced sales due to higher cost of the Duramax option, and the price of diesel fuel (and gas) continuing to rise,
as the economy continues to get weaker, which will start to become apparent late next summer, and become very plainly apparent right after the election next year.
For some people, none of this matters. But at some point, it will for almost everyone.

Yes you have a point. We would be driving 4.5 Dmax 1/2 tons if the gov't didn't slam us with emission standars so hi that the exhaust coming out of the tailpipe is cleaner than what is taken in thru the intake:eek:. These emission systems cost thousands add thousands of more $$$ to the price of purchase. In the small towns and farming communities there will always be a market for HD diesel trucks as well as in the RV world. I will always but a diesel truck even if i have to cut down on other entertainment items.

X whatever, My LML is substantially stronger than my LMM was, and I had no complaints with my Lmm.

As for styling, a change always is difficult for the automakers. Stay with a design or push the envelope to new styles. When GM moved from the boxy style on the pickups to the new designs, many of my friends said they would keep their trucks forever. Gradually, through the years, everyone of them bought a new truck and just love the styling.:rolleyes:

I think it's possible for GM to go bigger and more powerful but with looming fuel mileage requirements, it's doubtful.

The economy will also play a huge part in demand for HD trucks also. There is not going to be a quick turn around in this countrys economic problems. There is no magic party or person that can make the extremes of the last 20 years go away. It's gonna be a long haul.

The economy will also play a huge part in demand for HD trucks also. There is not going to be a quick turn around in this countrys economic problems. There is no magic party or person that can make the extremes of the last 20 years go away. It's gonna be a long haul.Yep, approximately one full decade of pain to go. And whoever is elected in 2020 will be the next Reagan.

Whats in store for the next Dmax?
Flame me all you want, but the truth will likely be:
Reduced sales due to higher cost of the Duramax option, and the price of diesel fuel (and gas) continuing to rise,
as the economy continues to get weaker, which will start to become apparent late next summer, and become very plainly apparent right after the election next year.
For some people, none of this matters. But at some point, it will for almost everyone.

I would love to buy a new LML but with the new one almost 10,000 more than my 03 and now the diesel price is .90 above regular gas, it becomes difficult to justify buying diesel again. I love the diesel pulling my travel trailer, they are hard to beat. At least my commute to work is only four miles round trip.

I didn't buy an LML because of how few of performance parts there are for it that and the LML doesn't seem like too much of an upgrade over my LMM.

Are there any rumors at all what the next Dmax might be? Will it be 440/850? or just looking to see if I should wait for the next Dmax. But after seeing the new colorado I don't even know if they next generation silverado is gonna look good

Some may disagree:rolleyes:...

Shhesh give the truck a hi/lo power option, they have plenTy of power now but need to have better mileage. Fix the E systems and get the thing reliable. Not just for toy owners who dont care, but business' that have to have the unit up and running and glitch free in all weather.. Where are they trying to drive the class of the truck? Build a >>450 like truck and sell it as a what? They (gm) think afforbability in this market of vehicle does not matter ( for a while it didnt) get a handle on it cause D2 is going up and their eco sux. Forget the HP wars thats B_S for kids and toy owners. Yea Im po'd, we had to buy gassers cause they can be trusted in all weather. GM, just get what have "fixed" !!

==

I think the CI change is for reduced cylinder pressure and to go a diff direction in Ems control Nox formation.

Shhesh give the truck a hi/lo power option, they have plenTy of power now but need to have better mileage. Fix the E systems and get the thing reliable. Not just for toy owners who dont care, but business' that have to have the unit up and running and glitch free in all weather.. Where are they trying to drive the class of the truck? Build a >>450 like truck and sell it as a what? They (gm) think afforbability in this market of vehicle does not matter ( for a while it didnt) get a handle on it cause D2 is going up and their eco sux. Forget the HP wars thats B_S for kids and toy owners. Yea Im po'd, we had to buy gassers cause they can be trusted in all weather. GM, just get what have "fixed" !!

Been driving Gm diesels in all weather for years and years with no problems (ecept for the heated w/w fluid on my LMM,wich GM took out and re imbursed me for. I live in Canada, so we get all 4 seasons here, don't know what you are talking about, why is the gasser more reliable???

Thread moved to new vehicle info forum.

Regarding the new emission system in 11 up and related limp conditons recalls reflashes EPA waivers bad sensors plow problems and a unstable poorly sheilded comp system when using a biz radio. 10 and ealier, sure great...

[QUOTE=TubeKing;4438150]Shhesh give the truck a hi/lo power option, they have plenTy of power now but need to have better mileage. Fix the E systems and get the thing reliable. Not just for toy owners who dont care, but business' that have to have the unit up and running and glitch free in all weather.. Where are they trying to drive the class of the truck? Build a >>450 like truck and sell it as a what? They (gm) think afforbability in this market of vehicle does not matter ( for a while it didnt) get a handle on it cause D2 is going up and their eco sux. Forget the HP wars thats B_S for kids and toy owners. Yea Im po'd, we had to buy gassers cause they can be trusted in all weather. GM, just get what have "fixed" !!

==

My thoughts exactly. Lot's of power and stable truck, but when used for business we need to have a good look at why we are burning more fuel to get less emissions. The soot filters have to regen too much because the engines could be tuned better and be much more efficient. Like I said in an earlier post, when a 30000 # class 8 Volvo daycab with an empty livestock trailer, can almost get the same mileage as the 2500 or 3500 '11s with a total of 20000# I feel robbed.
While looking for a 2010 dually today, a dealer suggested to wait for the 2013 because he heard the DEF was out for that year! ( he also did not know that the DEF recall was on the truck in his lot)

Have fun with that, sorry for the rant.

[QUOTE=TubeKing;4438150]Shhesh give the truck a hi/lo power option, they have plenTy of power now but need to have better mileage. Fix the E systems and get the thing reliable. Not just for toy owners who dont care, but business' that have to have the unit up and running and glitch free in all weather.. Where are they trying to drive the class of the truck? Build a >>450 like truck and sell it as a what? They (gm) think afforbability in this market of vehicle does not matter ( for a while it didnt) get a handle on it cause D2 is going up and their eco sux. Forget the HP wars thats B_S for kids and toy owners. Yea Im po'd, we had to buy gassers cause they can be trusted in all weather. GM, just get what have "fixed" !!

==

My thoughts exactly. Lot's of power and stable truck, but when used for business we need to have a good look at why we are burning more fuel to get less emissions. The soot filters have to regen too much because the engines could be tuned better and be much more efficient. Like I said in an earlier post, when a 30000 # class 8 Volvo daycab with an empty livestock trailer, can almost get the same mileage as the 2500 or 3500 '11s with a total of 20000# I feel robbed.
While looking for a 2010 dually today, a dealer suggested to wait for the 2013 because he heard the DEF was out for that year! ( he also did not know that the DEF recall was on the truck in his lot)

Have fun with that, sorry for the rant.

DEF is not going away in 2013 :rolleyes: . Salesman are the last to know anything, and have no idea about adiesel emissions in general.:D

While looking for a 2010 dually today, a dealer suggested to wait for the 2013 because he heard the DEF was out for that year! ( he also did not know that the DEF recall was on the truck in his lot)
It is possible to use a different method to achieve what DEF does. I believe Honda same up with (yet another) catalyst design (intended for their euro-market diesels) that did that, but it was strictly experimental.

Dodge had a similar system, but as this article explains, there are drawbacks, and it looks like they have now abandoned it in favor of urea injection:
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/07/spied-diesel-exhaust-fluid-coming-soon-to-ram-heavy-duty-pickups.html

excerpt:
Each approach has its benefits and drawbacks.

SCR requires periodic maintenance to refill the DEF tank approximately every 7,000 miles or the truck’s performance will be reduced per federal guidelines, but it also helps improve fuel economy by reducing EGR, allowing the diesel to operate in a more efficient range.

A NOx adsorber operates without any maintenance required by the driver (something highlighted in Ram’s advertising efforts), but it depends on rare earth metals such as rhodium or palladium that are much more expensive than urea. An adsorber is also less fuel efficient than DEF because it requires the engine to run cooler than optimal operating temperatures (to inhibit NOx formation). The adsorber periodically requires small amounts of diesel fuel to be used to “regenerate” the adsorber surface to clean it of sulfur from the fuel, which can reduce its effectiveness over time.

It's always possible that there will be a better system than the one Dodge had, but with the price of rare earth metals continuing to climb, at what cost?
If it was coming to the Duramax that soon, there should be info online about it already. And Cumstrokemax is right, salesmen have no clue about stuff like this. They often don't even know what's on the trucks on their lot that they're trying to sell.

Regarding the new emission system in 11 up and related limp conditons recalls reflashes EPA waivers bad sensors plow problems and a unstable poorly sheilded comp system when using a biz radio. 10 and ealier, sure great...

Let me know when you want to enter the new technology era, always going to be glitches with new stuff and biz radio's, i-pods not interfacing ect. Limp conditions due to DEF have been addressed and seem much better now, not hearing many compaints. Like i said been useing diesel pick-up for years and thye just keep getting better and better. Emissions are here to stay, just like back in the '70's when emissions hit the gas pots, issues had to be ironed out with EGR and catalists, now they are really efficiant and reliable, diesels are getting better as we all learn and improve.

I'll take a new interior for 2012......

The rest of the truck is fine....

no issues with my LML. For years no one cared about diesel emissions. Now they are trying to pay catch up to the gas market, and i think they have done well all things considering. I dont like the dpf anymore than anyone else, I hate how i have to burn more fuel and have a more restrictive exhaust. But there is nothing we can do about it the emissions are here. If you dont like em dont buy they truck. Or remove the crap and void your warranty. Just my opinion.

Yes agree on the REMs. China just cut REM exports 40% for 2012 and got rid of many in the dept that approved exports so the acutal cut? Who knows. They have been racing world wide to sew up raw materials and leave the rest of the world in a jam. Ever try to open a mine in the US, good luck.

[quote=hogstroker;4438163]

DEF is not going away in 2013 :rolleyes: . Salesman are the last to know anything, and have no idea about adiesel emissions in general.:D
Yeah, that salesperson might have been confused about the next generation electrically assisted DPF that GM has been working on. Read about it in this PDF document:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=gm%20electric%20dpf&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDoQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.eere.energy.gov%2Fvehiclesan dfuels%2Fpdfs%2Fmerit_review_2011%2Fpropulsion_mat erials%2Fpm041_lance_2011_p.pdf&ei=9RnLTpGVLens0gHkvRE&usg=AFQjCNGvT2uCk-l24bhRpSAfyC6BXN9QAQ

I agree Eric, this guy didn't know about the recall either and had never heard about issues with the DEF in cold weather. sure impressed me with his "knowledge" LOL.

I agree Eric, this guy didn't know about the recall either and had never heard about issues with the DEF in cold weather. sure impressed me with his "knowledge" LOL.

My favorite salesperson experience was the one that had to walk up to each truck and read the window sticker to figure out if it was gas or diesel.


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I thought I read somewhere that the 6.6 LML was pretty much maxed out. There was not much else they could get out of it, so they were either going to stick with it for a few years totally change things up. That 6.9 idea sounds interesting, going to go do some reading on that idea!!

My guess?

Emission standards are going to get more stringent, period. We are probably seeing the high water mark for horsepower and torque right now. And that goes for all of them, GM, Ford, Dodge.

Next gen. Duramax? Could be a larger version of the 'baby' 4.5L that didn't happen.

Diesel fuel will be more expensive, and the diesel engine option will be more expensive. We will see more of a shift back to gasoline in HD pickups. The trend is continuing. High power DI gas engines will take sales away from diesels.

Not to say diesel is completely on the way out, it will still be there for those willing to spend the coin for it.