Never did talk with a GM rep or got to see under the hood but will pry a bit tomorrow...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/sledog/Diesel%20pages/IMG-20111101-00165.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/sledog/Diesel%20pages/IMG-20111101-00164.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/sledog/Diesel%20pages/IMG-20111101-00163.jpg

see if you can look underneath at the rear axle...is it quadrasteer????

Good catch. Marker lamps on the rear fenders would indicate as much, wouldn't they. I'm curious too...

Moose

Subscibed!!!!!!:d

oh snap!

:eek::eek::eek:

Doesn't that look like the same one they showed pics of when the 4.5 was first supposed to come out, except with murals on it? I can't find any of the old pictures.

gonna be the gf's next car

Doesn't that look like the same one they showed pics of when the 4.5 was first supposed to come out, except with murals on it? I can't find any of the old pictures.

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showpost.php?p=225938&postcount=14

see if you can look underneath at the rear axle...is it quadrasteer????

I'll have to check and see tomorrow.

Was talking with a few of the reps from GM and the only reason they brought the truck out was for the murals that were done on the truck a few years back to commemorate this years 100th anniversary. Supposedly the truck has very few miles on it (trailered from show to show). They weren't too keen on popping the hood either and the 4.5 is still on permanent hold.

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showpost.php?p=225938&postcount=14

Yep I would say that is the same truck. Painted mirrors, chrome hooks...

Was telling the wife today....When this comes out, gonna give it a year or two to work the kinks out then it will be on!!!

gonna be the gf's next car

for the ~65k that a 4.5 duramax suburban "would" most-likely sticker for, ill be surprised if they sell many at all. BUT if your gf wants to spend 65k on something that probably wont get more than 30mpg, have more expensive oil changes, more expensive maintenance, and more expensive fuel, than all the power to her. :)

See, thats what everyone is missing. They think its all cool and badass and "OMG I WANT ONE ID BUY THAT IN A SECOND, COME ON GM BUILD IT!!!!!!11111!!!!!!", then when they come to the realization of how much it will cost, oil changes, fuel, maintenance, and fuel economy that is nowhere near a VW Jetta TDI, then they quietly step back with "oh...well ill just wait for a used one....". Heres the thing. If no one buys them in the first place, where do we get used ones? Who buys 95% of suburbans/tahoes nowadays? Soccer moms. Do you think soccer moms give two flying flagpoles what engine is under the hood of their new suburban? No.

Especially considering the new Gen-V gasser V8's will be direct-injection and have a bunch of other fuel-economy-improving design features...so for 7k less, you'll have a nice new direct-injected gasser V8 that gets within spitting distance (fuel economy wise) of what the 4.5 duramax would have been.

for the ~65k that a 4.5 duramax suburban "would" most-likely sticker for, ill be surprised if they sell many at all. BUT if your gf wants to spend 65k on something that probably wont get more than 30mpg, have more expensive oil changes, more expensive maintenance, and more expensive fuel, than all the power to her. :)

See, thats what everyone is missing. They think its all cool and badass and "OMG I WANT ONE ID BUY THAT IN A SECOND, COME ON GM BUILD IT!!!!!!11111!!!!!!", then when they come to the realization of how much it will cost, oil changes, fuel, maintenance, and fuel economy that is nowhere near a VW Jetta TDI, then they quietly step back embarrassed with "oh...well ill just wait for a used one....". Heres the thing. If no one buys them in the first place, where do we get used ones? Who buys 95% of suburbans/tahoes nowadays? Soccer moms. Do you think soccer moms give two flying flagpoles what engine is under the hood of their new suburban? No.


I was hoping for at 30 mpg- usually negotiate oil changes with dealer... Shes one of the few broads that can legitimize a full size trk/suv. A cars too small for the shit carries on the regular. The trk she drives now 09 1500 ltz ccsb was damn near 50k--- diesel avalanche would be almost too perfect-- at an affordable price

see if you can look underneath at the rear axle...is it quadrasteer????

Non quadrasteer axle...

That Burb has over-sized rear flares to match the HD front fenders. The only reason Quadrasteer trucks had marker lights was due to DOT width rule. Once you pass that threshold, all trucks need markers with the tri-marker under the tailgate. (like dually pickups).

I don't know how I missed this at SEMA, it was probably on the other side of the 9/11 pickup. (maybe it was because I had just left the Bar at Caesars 7 hours earlier :coffee: )

Yep you were close, 9/11 truck then Z06 Corvette then the 4.5 powered burb.

duratothemax, your right about buying them. the gen-v direct injection will have the injection system from the 4.5, just like most of this technology was applied to the LMM and LML. the v-6 and gen-v direct injection will eventually go to spec fuel that gm and ford are working on, mixture of diesel and gasoline. so consider the 4.5 a technology project and realize we have it just not in the 4.5 engine.

Quadrasteer should have been called " nightmare steer " I was a long time Teamster carhauler and retired from Jack Cooper Transport i 2002...When " quadrasteer " was first introduced ...we had all kinds of

Sorry...hit the wrong button...yep we had a lot of meetings seminars and videos about this because we hauled out of GM plants in Roanoke ( Ft. Wayne Ind. ) and Pontiac East Mi. where these would be built...After being under neath these things when tying them down.....There is No WAY I would ever own one.....Flimsy and to much danger of something breaking...Wear and tear would be terrible

Sorry...hit the wrong button...yep we had a lot of meetings seminars and videos about this because we hauled out of GM plants in Roanoke ( Ft. Wayne Ind. ) and Pontiac East Mi. where these would be built...After being under neath these things when tying them down.....There is No WAY I would ever own one.....Flimsy and to much danger of something breaking...Wear and tear would be terrible

Thats great, im glad to hear your non-engineer opinion of the design that Delphi spent lots of money on making CORRECTLY, but you are wrong if you think its a piece of shit.

It was a very well engineered system and they had zero problems with it. There were never any instances of it "BREAKING" or "THE COMPUTER MESSING UP AT 60MPH SENDING THE TRUCK INTO A BRICK WALL AND EXPLODING", despite what stupid rumors people make up based on their assumptions.

They didnt sell any because GM didnt market it correctly and priced it too high when it first was released. Not because it was "FLIMSY" (in your opinion).

Being under under a few to tie them down definitely makes you an authority on the subject. I am humbled. The first time I run into trouble with mine I will be sure to seek your advice.

One would have to think that if there was indeed widespread problems with the Quadrasteer systems...we'd have heard a lot about it here by now. A quick search turns up threads on the topic (or that at least mention Quadrasteer), but on a cursory check of a bunch of the threads turned up didn't result in a single thread dedicated to Quadrasteer failure, or even problems.

There are stories of people having noise issues in the Quadrasteer spec'd rear ends because of incorrect fluid usage or lack of maintenance, but that's the dif, not the Quadrasteer itself.

To the contrary, lots of threads here (and elsewhere, via Google) are full of people singing the praises of Quadrasteer trucks, and how reliable they have been.

Just sayin'.

for the ~65k that a 4.5 duramax suburban "would" most-likely sticker for, ill be surprised if they sell many at all. BUT if your gf wants to spend 65k on something that probably wont get more than 30mpg, have more expensive oil changes, more expensive maintenance, and more expensive fuel, than all the power to her. :)

See, thats what everyone is missing. They think its all cool and badass and "OMG I WANT ONE ID BUY THAT IN A SECOND, COME ON GM BUILD IT!!!!!!11111!!!!!!", then when they come to the realization of how much it will cost, oil changes, fuel, maintenance, and fuel economy that is nowhere near a VW Jetta TDI, then they quietly step back with "oh...well ill just wait for a used one....". Heres the thing. If no one buys them in the first place, where do we get used ones? Who buys 95% of suburbans/tahoes nowadays? Soccer moms. Do you think soccer moms give two flying flagpoles what engine is under the hood of their new suburban? No.

Especially considering the new Gen-V gasser V8's will be direct-injection and have a bunch of other fuel-economy-improving design features...so for 7k less, you'll have a nice new direct-injected gasser V8 that gets within spitting distance (fuel economy wise) of what the 4.5 duramax would have been.
My wife could justify this vehicle also. She carries materials for her job training nurses and doctors at hospitals in a 200 mile radius on the Stroke Now Network. Those miles in a diesel vs a gas will pay off for us in the economy.

Oil changes are about the same when you figure the extended range of a diesel engine oil change when using someone like Blackstone Labs.

The longevity of the diesel is another factor.

My wife could justify this vehicle also. She carries materials for her job training nurses and doctors at hospitals in a 200 mile radius on the Stroke Now Network. Those miles in a diesel vs a gas will pay off for us in the economy.

Not as long as the price premium for diesel continues. In my area, gas is under $3/gal. now, vs. diesel at $3.69+
Here's your area:
http://indianagasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=A&area=Fort%20Wayne&dl=Y&intro=Y
vs.
http://indianagasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=D&area=Fort%20Wayne&dl=Y&intro=Y

Even if you make your own fuel, many mods will be required, and it's getting more difficult to find sources of waste vegetable oil.

The longevity of the diesel is another factor.

My sisters 2003 tahoe (5.3) has over 250,000 miles on it, the only time a wrench has ever touched anything on that engine was to replace the air filter and catalytic converters. It has 40psi hot oil pressure at idle, and runs as smooth as it did when it was brand new.

My buddy's LBZ blew the head gaskets at ~90k and cracked a piston at ~110k. Ive lost count of how many LB7's ive done injectors on at ~125k miles, at roughly $3,000 installed. Head gaskets at $4500 (with arp studs), etc...

So whats your point? :rolleyes:

The fact of the matter is any of the 99+ LSx V8 will last just as long as a duramax, and it will cost less in maintenance/repairs. And even if you do blow up the gasser, who gives a shit. Go to any junk yard and get another good/used complete 5.3/6.0 engine for $500, or about the price of 3 LB7 injectors.

Like I said. The whole "I buy diesel for the longevity" doesnt fly anymore. Ever since 1999 when the LSx small blocks came out, they blew that argument right out of the water.

Those miles in a diesel vs a gas will pay off for us in the economy.

Ha, right. In the amount of years it will take to "pay off" the diesel in terms of fuel saved, the diesel will cost you more in potential repairs/maintenance...not to mention that diesel is more expensive than regular gas.

Im not dumping on the duramax, dont get me wrong, I love mine more than anything and Id never drive anything else...but im just saying that you guys need a reality check in "why" you buy a diesel nowadays, and what justify s the enormous initial cost.

Jesus Ben you can be a cantankerous SOB at times, sure you are not really an old geezer like me? :D I just want one to mod, twin and stuff in a light weight 1/2 ton to drag race. Totally agree though, diesels being more efficient and cheaper to operate especially for a DD doesn't make much sense anymore with diesel being as much as $.50 more a gallon like it is here. Even the TDI's.

A friend of mine who is also 6.0 Silverado owner says he would never buy a Diesel due to cost -- "not worth it" he says. However he struggles to tow a Jay Feather 24 footer loaded with gear and getting 9 MPG @ 65. Now he wants to upgrade his trailer to a 5R using the same truck??!! He says, for as far as I go, 4 hours max, I will survive.

I replied, you thought you hated towing before??!!

My point is dont buy the Diesel for perceived economy or let it hold you back due to higher fuel cost.

Buy it for the task at hand or pure joy of drive-abilty (or both). My truck is overkill for the camper I pull but wouldn't trade it for a gasser with money back. Towing across South Datoka at 78 MPH with the cruise set -- and getting 12 MPG was convincing enough for me! I use to fight the trailer for 4 hours which made it a draining trip. No more of that! We were knocking down 8-12 hours of towing a day where before I was worn out at 4-5. Big difference.

Totally agree though, diesels being more efficient and cheaper to operate especially for a DD doesn't make much sense anymore with diesel being as much as $.50 more a gallon like it is here. Even the TDI's.In some areas, the price discrepancy is even worse (more). Check this out:

http://www.stlouisgasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=A
Reg. gas: $2.94 / $2.96 / $2.97

http://www.stlouisgasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=D
Diesel: $3.59 (and that's almost certainly a mistake) / $3.69/ $3.74

This price premium has been around for several years now, although part of the problem with diesel prices now may be related to the disruption at an Edmonton refinery:
http://mile0city.ca/article/news/2011/11/04/disruption-edmonton-refinery-causing-diesel-fuel-shortage-western-canada
Maybe this is having some effect on US prices too.

Ford no longer offers a diesel in their vans; it wouldn't surprise me if GM eventually does the same (rather than start producing a new diesel engine option), probably because for most vehicles, including GM vans, the gas engine option is more powerful.

At least Duramax pickup truck owners have more power & towing capability.
But the number of people who routinely tow big trailers behind light-duty vehicles is going to decline as fuel prices keep rising.

whoa you guys are so lucky im paying 4.19 for diesel and 3.80 for bio
as a side note i would always buy a diesel over a gasser just for the reason of supporting the diesel market they have amazing potential. they keeping getting better and better where as the only true way to get a gasser better now days is make it a hybrid im sure ill get flammed for that but diesels have made an amazing leap in the last 30 years just my 2 cents

whoa you guys are so lucky im paying 4.19 for diesel and 3.80 for bio
as a side note i would always buy a diesel over a gasser just for the reason of supporting the diesel market they have amazing potential. they keeping getting better and better where as the only true way to get a gasser better now days is make it a hybrid im sure ill get flammed for that but diesels have made an amazing leap in the last 30 years just my 2 cents


No you are totally right, I only have to think back about my 6.2 and grin. If a person is towing nothing like a good diesel, especially one with a good set of towing compound turbos. I have a 1/2 ton gmc cc/sb that tow my 25' travel trailer with. It a 6.0 Max. It totally sucks the gas. Lucky to get 7 MPG towing. Really doesn't do all that well even driving. 17 is a good day.:eek:

With heavy loads over long highway distances, the diesel still rules (as long as huge out-of-warranty repairs don't completely obliterate that economics).

But probably more than half of the Duramax pickup buyers aren't routinely using their trucks for that. I see a lot of what appear to be daily commuters driving hopped up dude trucks / monster-truck wanna bes. Oh well, without them, I guess the rest of us would never have gotten EFILive support for Duramax.

:rippedhanIn some areas, the price discrepancy is even worse (more). Check this out:

http://www.stlouisgasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=A
Reg. gas: $2.94 / $2.96 / $2.97

http://www.stlouisgasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=D
Diesel: $3.59 (and that's almost certainly a mistake) / $3.69/ $3.74

This price premium has been around for several years now, although part of the problem with diesel prices now may be related to the disruption at an Edmonton refinery:
http://mile0city.ca/article/news/2011/11/04/disruption-edmonton-refinery-causing-diesel-fuel-shortage-western-canada
Maybe this is having some effect on US prices too.

Ford no longer offers a diesel in their vans; it wouldn't surprise me if GM eventually does the same (rather than start producing a new diesel engine option), probably because for most vehicles, including GM vans, the gas engine option is more powerful.

At least Duramax pickup truck owners have more power & towing capability.
But the number of people who routinely tow big trailers behind light-duty vehicles is going to decline as fuel prices keep rising.

I live in Alberta, Canada(OIL Country) and here were paying $4.769 per gallon :rippedhan(roughly figured as were in liter's). I almost want to sell my truck and go back to gas, but pulling my 38' Tahoe Toy hauler with a gaser wouldn't make much sense either. I love my Dmax as it'll out pull most of my buddy's trucks and thats with a lift and tires.

I'll have to check and see tomorrow.

Was talking with a few of the reps from GM and the only reason they brought the truck out was for the murals that were done on the truck a few years back to commemorate this years 100th anniversary. Supposedly the truck has very few miles on it (trailered from show to show). They weren't too keen on popping the hood either and the 4.5 is still on permanent hold.

À reporter st à local newspaper saw à diesel V8 st à PC
screen and was told it would come in March 2013
Lill at My links at http://wian.se/sintinfo.htm

Quadrasteer should have been called " nightmare steer " I was a long time Teamster carhauler and retired from Jack Cooper Transport i 2002...When " quadrasteer " was first introduced ...we had all kinds of

Sorry...hit the wrong button...yep we had a lot of meetings seminars and videos about this because we hauled out of GM plants in Roanoke ( Ft. Wayne Ind. ) and Pontiac East Mi. where these would be built...After being under neath these things when tying them down.....There is No WAY I would ever own one.....Flimsy and to much danger of something breaking...Wear and tear would be terrible

It may look flimsy to you, but as others have pointed out it is in fact quite strong. Eric(tdiguy) here who does DURAMAX SUBURBAN conversions did a quadrasteer BURB 4X4 with an LBZ and a healthy tune, and posted videos of it doing burnouts through 3rd gear before he let off. And the quadrasteer in it held up fine to over double the torque it was designed to ever handle.

wished I had a quadrasteer on my truck. I think it was the best thing GM did, just over priced it so I couldn't get it. I would love it on my D-Max...so easy to get into parking spots.

wished I had a quadrasteer on my truck. I think it was the best thing GM did, just over priced it so I couldn't get it. I would love it on my D-Max...so easy to get into parking spots.

I thought that would have been a great option as well, I just wonder if it could have handled the torque over the long haul?:confused:

TDIGUY that does the dmax suv conversions uses them and add power to the engine and they are holding up.

Ryan

TDIGUY that does the dmax suv conversions uses them and add power to the engine and they are holding up.

Ryan
Yep, skip to the end and see how weak the quadrasteer is.
Duramax Yukon XL by DuraBurb - YouTube

Gotta say, the guys with the quadrasteer I know have never had a problem. The way I abuse trucks, I probably would avoid them, but that's only an opinion. The fact is that they have a surprisingly stellar record.

I spose its preventive maintenance like anything else but what happens when the line breaks at 75 mph:eek:

what happens when the line breaks at 75 mph:eek:


From what I understand, quadrasteer is electronically controlled and if there is a failure, the unit will return to center.

I spose its preventive maintenance like anything else but what happens when the line breaks at 75 mph:eek:

What "line" are you talking about?

See, this is the other problem. Nobody even has a clue how the damn thing works, so they just ASSume and thats where 100% of the horror stories come from.

This Thread is another that makes me feel like I shouldn't have missed Sema this year

À reporter st à local newspaper saw à diesel V8 st à PC
screen and was told it would come in March 2013
Lill at My links at http://wian.se/sintinfo.htm

Did anybody else see the engine HP comparison were it showed the 4.5 making its peak hp at 7000 RPM...... I think this thing could be real fun....

...getting 12 MPG was convincing enough for me! I use to fight the trailer for 4 hours which made it a draining trip. No more of that! We were knocking down 8-12 hours of towing a day where before I was worn out at 4-5. Big difference...

I totally agree 1000%. But would I make the same decision in 2011 as I did in 07..? Im not so sure. Diesel went from $ 0.79.9/L to (slowly coming down), $1.249 on avg now in Caglary so fuel costs are significantly higher...

Yet when I recall back to when i had an 05 Dakota with a 4.7 in it...that thing totally sucked pulling a 22' 4350 lb Hybrid anywhere.! Even MT, that POS truck would give me maybe 17mpg. Towing was about 7-8mpg. My Dmax gets that on winter fuel, with summer fuel around 20. And towing.? well, its right on at 11.5-13 depending where I go...East or West.!

Maintenace can be high - true...however its only been 2 sets of tires, 2 CV joints, 2 front bearings & a water pump + the std oil/filters. So in my mind, doing those things that prevent issues has a huge effect on said maintenance as well: Extra Fuel and Oil filtration + removing the lead from your shoes while not driving like a moron ... are huge...No? |Money spent on toys/bling is an altogether different story eh.

I fully believe I will get half a million+ miles out of my truck ... and although there are plenty of 6.0/5.3 gas V8's that have huge miles as well...I don't see too many of them pulling 8000+ lbs uphill on a 30 mile long 8% grade doing 70 mph.

Being able to do that, in the BC mountains my friends, is pure unbridled joy. .. and oh, did I mention that I loved my truck..?? you bet.
(specially now that I finally got my seat heaters connected and working today...ahhhhhh) :D

Theo

When took the truck to the dealer yesterday I was talking to one of the salesmen. He told me that the new 4.5 was sent to another manufacturer for testing but should be available in 2013. I said so it will be in the 2015 models. He said maybe 2014's. I dont know if this guy had any idea what he was talking about but it is what it is.

I would buy one...

I like the idea a lot

I'll have to check and see tomorrow.

Was talking with a few of the reps from GM and the only reason they brought the truck out was for the murals that were done on the truck a few years back to commemorate this years 100th anniversary. Supposedly the truck has very few miles on it (trailered from show to show). They weren't too keen on popping the hood either and the 4.5 is still on permanent hold.

PERMANENT HOLD!!!! Great idea but the new motor does not meet GM Standers. Their is a reason why the Durmax has not changed, look at Ford with all their problems.

I want a diesel 1500 so bad, but I have to agree with the folks talking about not being able to justify the costs. I love everything about my Dmax, but fact of the matter is I can't honestly say the increased mileage offsets the mega-hike in fuel prices. How long have we been thinking prices would go down due to the refineries recouping from the ULSD retrofitting and increase in diesel models sales? Fact of the matter is the EPA and major economic players are at war with the diesel for whatever nonsensical and perverse reason and I dunno if that will ever change. I went so far as to buy a 2011 VW Touareg TDi for the family, and as much as I absolutely love that vehicle too, it is damn expensive to fill up! Of course, it gets 31 mpg on the highway which is amazing, but I am not looking forward to when we stop getting the free service visits. Also, this AdBlue business makes me nervous heck. If the fluid runs out, it will not let you start the engine period dot. Now you ask yourself, well why don't you just keep a spare bottle in the car? What if I told you that a few weeks after buying it, I got a freak fluid level low light and it was basically full! It went away at the next restart, and seemed to be only a glitch... but what if that sensor fails in the middle of nowhere and leaves you stranded all because of some b.s. law that mandates it must run with fluid present?

but what if that sensor fails in the middle of nowhere and leaves you stranded all because of some b.s. law that mandates it must run with fluid present?

I guess the same thing that happens if the starter goes out, or countless other things. If you are that paranoid than get a horse.

I guess the same thing that happens if the starter goes out, or countless other things. If you are that paranoid than get a horse.

Horse could throw a shoe...I'm just saying!

I guess the same thing that happens if the starter goes out, or countless other things. If you are that paranoid than get a horse.

x2.

These people whining about DEF... "WELL WTF, when the DEF runs out the truck goes into limp mode and is limited to 5mph??? That could be very dangerous! Stupid DEF! What if I get stranded somewhere and run out of DEF!!!!"

All I can say is "um what do you think happens when you run your truck of of fuel? Same damn thing!"

There are plenty of warnings when you are getting low on DEF...same as plenty of warning when you are running low on diesel fuel. Nobody seems to have any trouble keeping their diesel tank filled, so why is it any more difficult to keep the DEF tank filled? By now, 99% of places that sell diesel also sell DEF, so whats the big deal????

x2.

These people whining about DEF... "WELL WTF, when the DEF runs out the truck goes into limp mode and is limited to 5mph??? That could be very dangerous! Stupid DEF! What if I get stranded somewhere and run out of DEF!!!!"

All I can say is "um what do you think happens when you run your truck of of fuel? Same damn thing!"

There are plenty of warnings when you are getting low on DEF...same as plenty of warning when you are running low on diesel fuel. Nobody seems to have any trouble keeping their diesel tank filled, so why is it any more difficult to keep the DEF tank filled? By now, 99% of places that sell diesel also sell DEF, so whats the big deal????

Jesus Christ Ben....lighten up.....but you hit:nail:

Yeah no duh. I get both those points. What irks me is that fact that it is a stupid emissions system, not something vital to making the vehicle run such as the starter, fuel etc. It is just one more thing that is completely unnecessary that can screw you over if it does break. I never said I had trouble keeping it filled.

@ Crazy Aggie....My 2007...3500...Z71 LTZ Crew Cab Duramax LMM was recently in the shop ( Chevy ) because of emission BS...Engine light on ...Required new " particulate filter " and several other EPA items plus substantial labor cost...It has less than 60 K and is 5 years old...I looked through the lot at 2012 and 2011 Duramax trucks and all had that plastic tank hanging off the side of the frame...I asked the salesman about it and he said....Oh just another " clean air " 'additive '....I lucked out when my truck was covered by extended warranty...but can't justify buying another Duramax ( $59,000.00 ) because of the price of fuel and all this new EPA crap....My old 2002 Duramax went 120 K miles at over 20 MPG and I spent ZERO dollars on it except for scheduled maintenance and tires...When I bought it diesel fuel was less than premium gas...Now look at it...Ford builds a diesel car in England that gets over 60 mpg...but they won't bring it here ' cause America's not " diesel friendly "....Also all the tree huggers gush over how clean Euope's air quality is compared to ours.....but 60 % of vehicles in Europe are DIESEL

@ Crazy Aggie....My 2007...3500...Z71 LTZ Crew Cab Duramax LMM was recently in the shop ( Chevy ) because of emission BS...Engine light on ...Required new " particulate filter " and several other EPA items plus substantial labor cost...It has less than 60 K and is 5 years old...I looked through the lot at 2012 and 2011 Duramax trucks and all had that plastic tank hanging off the side of the frame...I asked the salesman about it and he said....Oh just another " clean air " 'additive '....I lucked out when my truck was covered by extended warranty...but can't justify buying another Duramax ( $59,000.00 ) because of the price of fuel and all this new EPA crap....My old 2002 Duramax went 120 K miles at over 20 MPG and I spent ZERO dollars on it except for scheduled maintenance and tires...When I bought it diesel fuel was less than premium gas...Now look at it...Ford builds a diesel car in England that gets over 60 mpg...but they won't bring it here ' cause America's not " diesel friendly "....Also all the tree huggers gush over how clean Euope's air quality is compared to ours.....but 60 % of vehicles in Europe are DIESEL

Reason why i still love my 2002. And i get 23mpg highway when im not pulling anything:)