Hi Everyone,

First post ever, but love the forum. I own a 2006 Express 3500 Duramax and am going to be picking up a new 2010 Express 3500 in a few days. I am kind of concerned about the DPF, oil dilution, etc... I can tell you that I will be running this van at max weight capacity, towing heavy much of the time too. It will see a lot of highway miles as well as stop and go in city driving too.

Anyone with experience here able to tell me what to look out for? I am under the impression that DPF delete is the way to go, but will have to wait until the warranty is over for that one.... What type of things should I be doing, or looking out for until that point?

Thanks in advace.


Todd.

Hi Everyone,

First post ever, but love the forum. I own a 2006 Express 3500 Duramax and am going to be picking up a new 2010 Express 3500 in a few days. I am kind of concerned about the DPF, oil dilution, etc... I can tell you that I will be running this van at max weight capacity, towing heavy much of the time too. It will see a lot of highway miles as well as stop and go in city driving too.

Anyone with experience here able to tell me what to look out for? I am under the impression that DPF delete is the way to go, but will have to wait until the warranty is over for that one.... What type of things should I be doing, or looking out for until that point?

Thanks in advace.


Todd.

Welcome to the rare 2010 LMM van owners club!
Did you actually find a new LMM van leftover after all this time?
Wow, that was quite a find. GM only built them for about a month, in Sept. 2009.

I had what was apparently a regen-related issue strand me in Nebraska last winter. Also, fuel consumption during regen is nearly double what it normally is. Cruising MPGs during regen will drop from 22mpg to about 12mpg, and it will do this twice per tank of fuel. Also, on an LMM, the extra fuel for regen is dumped into engine by overfueling (late fuel timing) so it also dilutes the engine oil.

Pickup truck DPF delete pipes will not work on a van, so I plan on making a DPF delete pipe, and using that until the warranty expires.
I am going to use a Flo-Pro 8880 muffler, but you could also just use a straight pipe.

Since the flanges you need to make a delete pipe are almost impossible to find (unless you find some left-over oem exhaust pipes) you either need to make your own, or I could probably make an extra set for you. My neighbor has access to a water-jet cutter. The stock flanges are about 0.400" (10mm) thick.

FWIW, I have EFI Live with a spare VIN license remaining. I don't yet have a DPF-delete tune for a van, but turning off regen is a fairly easy modification to the stock tune.

You might want to check out these threads:
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=435785
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=437129

Welcome to the small world of LMM van owners.

Read the threads Nomad posted the links to. While delete parts are not as easy to get as a pickup, they can be had and the results are well worth it...especially if you are going to run a lot of miles.

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the info. I plan on being here a lot to learn more about this particular vehicle. My 2006 is pretty simple without emmissions, but this is a whole nother animal! I am unfortunately not very mechanically inclined, but do have buddies that can help out in that department for making modifications and such.

I am guessing this van will definately not get as many miles as you guys put on yours. I am guessing it will be in the range of about 40K per year. However, it will be totally loaded down and towing heavy most all of that time. I work my vans pretty hard.

I do have a couple questions.....

Is there anything special I should do since this van was produced two years ago and when I pick it up will still have <20 miles on it? I have no idea what the dealer has done to keep it during the time they have had it on their lot? The fuel filter indicator is still great at close to 100%. The oil life remaining states 6%, so that is a given. The van hour meter says a couple hours on it. I am thinking I will pick up some anti-microbial agent to dose the tank with to start. FWIW, the tank never has been filled since it has essentially no miles and when I drove it, was somewhere in the 1/8th range.

Anything else I should be looking at doing?


How many miles do I have to wait until doing the delete? I know there is a "limited 100K mile powertrain warranty" but don't know how the specifically applies to emmissions at this point. One of the downsides of this being such a rare vehicle is that the info on it is difficult to find. I will know more, or course, when I get the owner's manual later this week.

I just need to make sure that this rig is reliable, gets the best mpg's as possible, and such. I run thru a couple states and don't want to be stranded anywhere!

Also, FWIW, there is another 2010 van (twin of the one I am getting, except for no side or back window) on the lot too. It can be had for well under invoice if anyone is interested.....


Thanks agian,

Todd.

Also, FWIW, there is another 2010 van (twin of the one I am getting, except for no side or back window) on the lot too. It can be had for well under invoice if anyone is interested.....

Where did you buy yours? Is your van/the one that's left extended or std. length?

I thought I was lucky to find one in Oct 2009.
But in a way it doesn't surprise me that there was one left over after all this time. I've seen that before with the LLY diesel vans, but they made those for a little over a year. 2010 LMMs are far more rare, and the only one with the 6-speed trans. but without the ridiculous emissions junk on the 2011+ Duramax
(which would be a deal-breaker for me, especially since there will be no EFI support for 2011+ because the new ECMs are not readable through the ODB port).

Where did you buy yours? Is your van/the one that's left extended or std. length?

I thought I was lucky to find one in Oct 2009.
But in a way it doesn't surprise me that there was one left over after all this time. I've seen that before with the LLY diesel vans, but they made those for a little over a year. 2010 LMMs are far more rare, and the only one with the 6-speed trans. but without the ridiculous emissions junk on the 2011+ Duramax
(which would be a deal-breaker for me, especially since there will be no EFI support for 2011+ because the new ECMs are not readable through the ODB port).


I got mine at Runde Chevy in East Dubuque, IL.

http://www.rundeautogroup.com/

It is the long one with the 155" wheelbase. They have zero turning radius, but I need the length for cargo! I am hoping the six speed will be quite a bit more efficient and hopefully help at least partially offset the extra fuel spent during regens.

This must be your van:
http://www.rundeautogroup.com/vehicles.cfm?anPage=detail_MultiPhoto.cfm&did=3-East_Dubuque-Il-Runde_Chevrolet-2010-Chevrolet-Express_Van&st=A1183932

http://www.gmbuypower.com/ws/nvlWindowSticker.vs?make=ch&makeDescrip=Chevrolet&style=Cargo%20van%20ext.%203500&makeId=001&vehicleModel=/images/gmbp/13001/vehicle/2010/med/201023.gif&year=2010&sellingSource=13&subModel=3500&subModelId=23&BAC=111752&modelId=010&pvc=11161&mmc=CG33705&modelDesignator=CG33705&brand=Express%20Cargo&model=Express%20Cargo&type=&typeDescrip=&styleDescrip=Cargo%20van%20ext.%203500&styleId=Cargo%20van%20ext.%203500&partnerID=900001&userType=&tempUserType=&searchType=4&VIN=1GC2GUAL7A1183932&nav=&iPi=5&fPi=5&dPath=FRDP&linksInCCT=true&zip=61025&dealerName=RUNDE%20CHEVROLET%2C%20INC&dealerURL=http://www.rundechevy.com/en_US/HomePage&distance=0.0&dealerStreet=780%20HWY%2035%20N&dealerCity=EAST%20DUBUQUE&dealerRegionCode=IL&dealerPostalcode=61025-9625&dealerBpManagerName=Jim%20Lease&dealerBpPhone=%28815%29%20747-3011&nameplateids=001^

It doesn't have the tow package?

WOW! GM really went way up on the price since I got mine in Oct. 2009. :eek:

On that window sticker above (as well as the other one at Runde Chevrolet), it's priced like the 2011s or 2012s, i.e.: as a "Diesel Van" with the Duramax as standard equipment for, $41,975.00 (MSRP) not including other options.

On my window sticker, GM was still doing it the old way, with the base price that included the 4.8L gas V-8 and the Duramax as one of the options.
The MSRP base price for my 2010 3500 extended van was $29,980 and the Duramax was a MSRP $7,795 option, for a total (not including other options) of MSRP $37,775.

The prices for the other options (convenience packages, radio, etc.) are the same.

Of course the 2011s & 2012s are even higher due to the extra emissions control gear.

I am hoping the six speed will be quite a bit more efficient and hopefully help at least partially offset the extra fuel spent during regens.
The top gear ratio is a little taller than the 4-speed, and the lower gears in the tranny allowed the axle ratio to change from 3.73 to 3.54.

4L80/4L85 Transmission (MT1/MN8) gear ratios:
First: 2.48
Second: 1.48
Third: 1.00
Fourth: 0.75
Reverse: 2.07

0.75 x 3.73 (axle ratio) = 2.798 total gear reduction


2007 Hydra-Matic 6L90 Transmission (MYD) gear ratios:
First: 4.03
Second: 2.36
Third: 1.53
Fourth: 1.15
Fifth: 0.85
Sixth: 0.67
Reverse: 3.06

0.67 x 3.54 (axle ratio) = 2.372 total gear reduction

Top gear revs at any given speed are 84.8% of the revs in the pre-2010 Duramax vans.

Wow! I wish the MSRP on this van was where yours was at! I was stunned that it did not have a tow package either. I told the dealer that was pretty rediculous not to have one on a diesel and they are putting one on as part of the deal, but still, why not a factory tow package? All in all, the dealer put the tow package on and their price was about 37K. I got a few thousand more off with some other incentives and such, as well as getting more on my trade than I was able to get in other places I shopped.

I was originally looking at a Ford E350 with the V10 gas engine. The hp and torque numbers are surprisingly good for a gas engine, and I know that there would not be the other issues that come along with emissions, etc... However, I can really use all the power I can get and I have talked to owners of the V10 Triton and they get 9 or 10 mpg, loaded or empty! I can't handle that! Hopefully, my additional fuel economy, engine longevity, and resale will easily outweigh the additional expense of the diesel as well as the potential emissions headaches too! Also, although the gas V10 is powerful, it is not AS powerful as the Duramax. I have to say, the 10 is way more quiet than my 06 too, which will make the long hauls that much more pleasant.

I noticed the gearing difference and was surprised not to find the typical Chevy 3.73 in there. I definately can handle being at about 85% of the revs to get the same thing done!

How long are you going on average between oil changes? In my 06, we generally go about 10,000. However, there is no oil life monitor on that one. There is also no emissions related oil dilution to deal with. I was thinking of maybe just going with a good dino oil and doing changes more frequently than even the monitor called for just to make sure I have good oil in the engine. Maybe change the oil more often and only do the filter every other change until I can get the DPF delete? Any thoughts as far as oil goes?


Thanks,

Todd.

Do a UOA then you will know for sure what is going on with your oil.

I would watch transmission temps very close. I do not see the trans holding up well under heavy load and 3.54 gears.

How long are you going on average between oil changes? In my 06, we generally go about 10,000. However, there is no oil life monitor on that one. There is also no emissions related oil dilution to deal with. I was thinking of maybe just going with a good dino oil and doing changes more frequently than even the monitor called for just to make sure I have good oil in the engine. Maybe change the oil more often and only do the filter every other change until I can get the DPF delete? Any thoughts as far as oil goes?

I did first the oil change at 5,000 miles. It still had a lot of life left at that point (about half, if I recall correctly). I will go by what the DIC indicates for oil changes, which will probably work out to about 10,000 miles.

In the past I've always used Purolator PureOne oil filters, but due to a pricing anomaly in the one that fits DMax at the only local auto parts store that carries them (Advance Auto), and the introduction of the new Bosch Distance Plus filter for DMax (D3511), I will be using those from now on. The same company now owns, or at least makes, both Bosch & Purolator oil filters, and the Bosch DP is basically just a slightly upgraded PureOne with media rated to hold more dirt, and a thicker can. The Bosch DP D3511 & PureOne PL35399 look practically identical inside. I'd use the Delco Ultraguard Gold filters if they were still available, but unfortunately those are gone forever, AFAIK.

Here's where a bunch of oil filters were cut open and compared a fairly recently:
http://www.300cforums.com/forums/general-discussion-issues-trouble-shooting/31190-oil-filters-dissected.html

As far as break-in, if I were you I would do everything I could to avoid short cycling that engine, especially with winter coming on. Try to plan your usage so that you always will drive it long enough to come up to full operating temperature. Idle as little as possible but do everything you can to avoid putting much load on the engine while it's cold. If you can park it so that you don't have to climb a hill when it's cold, that's helpful.

I'd also suggest using the "M" setting to rev the engine over a wider than normal range (while still using light throttle / low load), rather than just putting it in "D" all the time. I know that can be inconvenient, or maybe not even feasible if you have to do a lot of highway driving right off the bat, but it's better to vary the rpm range as much as possible (while still going easy on the throttle).

The DIC has no clue how much life is left in your oil. It just gives out a suggestion as to when to change it. UOA and the lab rats will tell you everything going on with your oil. I just got my latest today with about 17,000 miles on it and it looked very good. I will be going to 18,500 next time. If I would have gone by my DIC I would be wasting money with 8,000-10,000 mile oil changes. I am using Rotella Synthetic 5w-40 with Mobil 1 M1-303 filters.

The DIC indicator supposedly takes several factors into account, not just mileage. Obviously it cannot test the oil.

How much are you paying for oil analysis on top of the more expensive synthetic oil in order to extend the oil change interval to roughly double the typical 8,000-10,000 miles?

Test was $ 25-30 dollars. It is doing much more than just telling me when to change my oil. The DIC monitors speed, rpm, idle, hours, miles and etc then always puts me in the 8,000-10,000 range for my van. I will keep increasing my intervals as long as my UOA keeps coming back good. To me the DIC is just a oil change sticker.

Actually everybody should be changing there oil every 1,000 miles so my customers have enough oil for Winter.

Where I bought my 2011, the dealer gives free oil changes for life. The service manager told me that I can come in every 4k miles. I know I don't need to that often, but its free.

They also give a lifetime engine warranty for free.

how do you guys like the 6 speed in the van?

how do you guys like the 6 speed in the van?
Both of my 4L80 vans had 5.7 gas engines. So the lack of power really showed the large gaps of the 4 speed. My 2001 gasser really needed a gear between 3 and OD when towing. But if it was a diesel, OD would have been just fine and a 4 speed would work.

With the diesel, the 6 speed is more about comfort than necessity. It just provides a nicer ride.

Test was $ 25-30 dollars. It is doing much more than just telling me when to change my oil. The DIC monitors speed, rpm, idle, hours, miles and etc then always puts me in the 8,000-10,000 range for my van. I will keep increasing my intervals as long as my UOA keeps coming back good. To me the DIC is just a oil change sticker.



Your oil change interval would need to go out to almost 29,000 miles for this to have the same cost/mile as the DIC indicated intervals. Are you confident you can stretch it that far?

I run synthetics...for other reasons....and based on my sampling (which I don't pay anywhere near that much for) I'm limiting myself to 25,000 miles and 20,000 miles in the winter months.

To the original poster (Todd), if the van has been around that long it has likely been started and stopped many times and this would explain the oil life reading. Change it when you get it home with a good CJ-4 conventional oil and change it again after a few thousand miles to be squeaky clean. One other issue you may have, is the stock batteries may not live to long as with age, they have likely suffered a bit of sulfation. They will start the van fine but will lack the ability to do so if you did something like leave your lights on or leave a cooler/fridge plugged in. My truck sat in the Oklahoma sun for 2 years and the stock batteries are showing their age now that the colder weather is here. Yours may or may not. If it was me...I would also change the transmission oil after a while too (great time to put on a deep pan!).

I trust the lab rats, So I will go as far as the results show that I can go. I could get free UOA but I am happy with Blackstone Labs and will stay with them unless they change my mind to go elsewhere. I do not run the synthetic oil for just the longer intervals there are other benefits of using it. UOA are not just for extending oil change intervals. They provide great information with what is going on inside the engine.

UOA are also great if you are using just regular dino oil. The main thing is none of us or the DIC has a clue what true condition of what your oil is except for the Lab Rats.

I picked the van up on Saturday and today was my first day really working it. Got about three hundred miles on it today loaded down heavy, but no trailer yet...All I can say is WHAT A TORQUE MONSTER!!!! And this is the 2010 with only 250 hp and (I believe) 460 ft lbs of torque. The engine ran so nicely and although I was varyng the RPM's it cruised on highway at a mere 1600-1800 RPMs! The fuel economy was pretty nice too. I have been getting between 16 and 17 so far. I am happy with that loaded down and in mixed driving with an engine that has not even gotten close to broken in yet. There are a few issues with Chevy fit and finish, but overall, a real joy to drive compared to my old truck - a 2009 GMC W5500 HD Low Cab Forward with a 14 ft box on it. That thing was a complete lemon, only got 9.25 mpg, and was not nearly as comortable to drive. Of course, it did have a 10K lb payload and I am going to have to pull a trailer in combination with my van's cargo area to haul as much as I did with the W5500, but I think the van/trailer will be a much better and more flexible combination. Incidentally, the W5500 was always redlined at 2800 RPM's on the highway and the Express, like I mentioned runs comfortably at 1600 to 1800! I couldn't even exceed the speed limit with my old truck and with this one, I really have to watch myself! So far, I am impressed.

Oh...Does the dash indicate when a regen is happening? I read that it will do it a couple times per tank and I am down to about 3/8 of a tank and can't conclusively say I have had a regen yet?

Oh...Does the dash indicate when a regen is happening?
Nope. But instantaneous fuel economy will be cut approximately in half during regen. If you notice the mpgs inexplicably dropping while cruising on the highway, reset the DIC fuel economy by pressing the reset button, and until regen completes, you'll see fuel economy that's a little more than half what it normally would be.

I read that it will do it a couple times per tank
Twice per tank has been typical for my LMM van, which does very little idling or stop & go driving.